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Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.20 09:23:00 -
[1]
Many of you are probably thinking "How can you even compare these two ships?" Well, I'm currently piloting a Gila, and wondering how to move forward. And the natural progression from a Gila is to a Rattlesnake. After running the numbers through EFT, I noticed that a Rattlesnake won't do a whole heck of a lot more damage than a Dominix. Now the Rattlesnake will be easier to make into a tanky ship, but after 600 DPS tank, anything more than that is a waste. (Arguably 600 DPS tank is too much tank.)
Anyways, here are the two setups I've been trowing around:
[Dominix, L4 Armor] Reactor Control Unit II Armor Thermic Hardener II Thermic Plating II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Magnetic Plating II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Caldari Navy 350mm Railgun, Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 350mm Railgun, Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 350mm Railgun, Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 350mm Railgun, Antimatter Charge L Caldari Navy 350mm Railgun, Antimatter Charge L Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Garde II x5
[Rattlesnake, L4 Cruise] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Core Defence Field Extender II Large Core Defence Field Extender II Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Garde II x5
Dominix Damage: 687 DPS (on paper) Dominix Tank: 614 vs Serpentes (55 Therm 45 Kinetic)
Rattle Damage: 703 DPS (on paper) Rattle Tank: 619 vs Serpentes (55 Therm 45 Kinetic)
All Level V skills used with no implants for EFT Warrioring.
My biggest issue here is that a Dominix seems to do nearly as much DPS as a Rattlesnake, with similar tank (though requiring cap boosters to be a consistent 600 DPS) however the cost of a fitted Dominix is about 1/10th of a fitted Rattlesnake.
I can easily see how the Rattlesnake can get a ton of tank, and in fact I have intentionally nerfed the tank I can get on the rattlesnake fit in favor of a higher EHP. But I don't feel that this is worth the extra isk for a ship.
It's not that I can't afford a Rattlesnake, I can afford a small fleet of Rattlesnakes. The issue is that the extra cost doesn't seem to meet
Am I doing anything terribly incorrect with my fits? Does the Rattlesnake just not do a ton of damage? Am I trying to make the Rattlesnake do something it's not really designed to do?
Any advice would be welcomed.
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Julia Venatrix
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Posted - 2011.07.20 09:40:00 -
[2]
Your Domi tank is suboptimal.
Try 3xFN Mag Stab, 2xT2 Therm, T2 Kin, T2 LAR. You don't have to tank them once you have blown them up.
Swap the cap booster for another recharger - you don't need it with a single repper.
Forget the AB, that's what Wardens are for. Add another Omni, let your Gardes show their love out past 40km.
--- Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue. |
Brotha Umad
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Posted - 2011.07.20 09:55:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kesshisan
Am I doing anything terribly incorrect with my fits? Does the Rattlesnake just not do a ton of damage? Am I trying to make the Rattlesnake do something it's not really designed to do?
Any advice would be welcomed.
Nope. No it doesn't. If you're trying to do L4 fast with it, yes.
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Potato IQ
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Posted - 2011.07.20 13:54:00 -
[4]
Rattler
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Drone Scope Chip I
Bouncer II x 5 Garde II x 5 Hammerhead II x 5 Hobgoblin II x 5
Hardeners to taste. CNR performance, unless long gate travel, without having to micro-manage cap/shield booster. Is so easy to use
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.20 15:29:00 -
[5]
Quote: Dominix Damage: 687 DPS (on paper) Dominix Tank: 614 vs Serpentes (55 Therm 45 Kinetic)
Rattle Damage: 703 DPS (on paper) Rattle Tank: 619 vs Serpentes (55 Therm 45 Kinetic)
All Level V skills used with no implants for EFT Warrioring.
Look at what rats you are going to be fighting and how far away they orbit. Then go into EFT and set up a DPS comparison chart set up at that distance.
Pretty sure the RS damage will stay the same and the Domi DPS will go down. That methodology is how I decided what missions to use a CNR or Tengu on instead of the Machariel. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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xenodia
Gallente DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
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Posted - 2011.07.20 17:56:00 -
[6]
im considering trading my navy domi in for a rattlesnake for one big reason.... the passive tank you can put on a rattlesnake is insane. the Navy domi can tank lvl 4 easily enough, but its an active tank and requires more micromanagement. Less micromanagement is good especially if you are trying to run a 2nd account in a salvager following behind the mission toon. This signature space for rent |
Akuma Tsukai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.21 03:59:00 -
[7]
2op Am I doing anything terribly incorrect with my fits? - nothing really terrible Does the Rattlesnake just not do a ton of damage? - its does Am I trying to make the Rattlesnake do something it's not really designed to do? - YES!!!
Actually the prob (as i see it) is that youre trying to passive tank a BS. There are no X size modules which allows to do this effectively. Heck u have T2 rigs and navy equip there but still the usual T2 fitted active X booster rattle beats you in tank and has similar damage with only heavy drones as downside.
---- Drones eat everything. Trust me. |
DemetRYS
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.21 04:04:00 -
[8]
Honestly i'd reccomend the rattler, even though I like the dominix. Easier to apply the dps, easier to swap tank and gank as needed, and easier to pimp if you eventually want to. Of course, the domi is nothin to turn your nose up at, but it is a harsh mistress by comparison.
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.07.21 04:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kesshisan
Large Core Defence Field Extender II Large Core Defence Field Extender II
I can see why the Domi looks good now!
Try swapping those rigs for some shield regens, should improve ur tank a fair bit while keeping the cost down, and could allow another BCU in the lows.
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Lady Oxycontin
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Posted - 2011.07.21 04:59:00 -
[10]
Let's do it the easy way: Do you have kids and have to go afk from the computer? Yes=Rattlesnake No=Dominix
It's just that easy.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.21 14:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lady Oxycontin Let's do it the easy way: Do you have kids and have to go afk from the computer? Yes=Rattlesnake No=Dominix
It's just that easy.
His Dominix does less DPS than his RS, so its unambiguously not that that easy. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Predator989
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Posted - 2011.07.21 16:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Lady Oxycontin Let's do it the easy way: Do you have kids and have to go afk from the computer? Yes=Rattlesnake No=Dominix
It's just that easy.
His Dominix does less DPS than his RS, so its unambiguously not that that easy.
Yes HIS dominix does, BUT a proper dominix can do 800-860 dps with enough tank for almost any level 4 besides the angel bonus room
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Fermi Tesla
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Posted - 2011.07.21 16:48:00 -
[13]
normally, rattlesnakes are not considered a boat for running missions quickly, the following is a fit i have seen used by at least 3 pilots, and it seems to work quite well, cap lasts about 3 hours or so. It tanks well over 2k dps and does around 600dps if you include the launchers. if you do want to run the missions more quickly, you may consider t2 missiles on your rattlesnake.
[Rattlesnake, 2400tank] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Pithum A-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier Pithum A-Type Explosion Dampening Amplifier
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II
Hobgoblin II x5 Warden II x5 Garde II x5 Ogre II x5
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.21 16:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Predator989
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Lady Oxycontin Let's do it the easy way: Do you have kids and have to go afk from the computer? Yes=Rattlesnake No=Dominix
It's just that easy.
His Dominix does less DPS than his RS, so its unambiguously not that that easy.
Yes HIS dominix does, BUT a proper dominix can do 800-860 dps with enough tank for almost any level 4 besides the angel bonus room
So he should do less DPS while he trains to all 5's? To each their own. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Oltham
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Posted - 2011.07.21 17:17:00 -
[15]
I know im probably going to get shot down for this but personally i use 3 ccc t1's and fit an active tank. This makes room for 3-4 BCU's in the bottom slots. I do have a faction shield booster and amp on but i still have space to add a target painter or computer in the mids which is nice!
Dont have the figures to hand but i can tank any level 4 and they dont take weeks to complete! Supose my moneys in the faction booster and amp and yours in the rigs- so not much difference!
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Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.22 00:00:00 -
[16]
Thanks for all the advice. I am reading it all, but I had a final today so I haven't had much time to fully absorb and process everything yet. Give me another day to do all this and I'll come up with a proper reply with more questions.
However, I do have one query right now:
I see a lot of suggested fits for cruise missile fits sans rigor rigs. Why?
Thanks.
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LiNuXb0y
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2011.07.22 00:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: LiNuXb0y on 22/07/2011 00:27:44 This is what I fit on the rattler, swap drones and hardeners for rat damage:
[Rattlesnake, pve] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Pith B-Type Photon Scattering Field Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Pithum A-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Domination Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Domination Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Domination Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Domination Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I [empty high slot]
Large Core Defence Field Purger I Large Core Defence Field Purger I Large Core Defence Field Purger I
Garde II x5 Ogre II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
More then enough tank, 670 dps, training for t2 cruise atm. Only better ships i can see is the cnr and golem.
As for the rigor question. People use them as they decreases the sig radius of the missiles. Which means you can apply dps to small ships more effectively.
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Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.22 01:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: LiNuXb0y As for the rigor question. People use them as they decreases the sig radius of the missiles. Which means you can apply dps to small ships more effectively.
My question was why do people have fits without them. ("Sans" is French for "without.")
LinuxBoy, even your fit has no Rigor rigs. Why?
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LiNuXb0y
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2011.07.22 01:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kesshisan
LinuxBoy, even your fit has no Rigor rigs. Why?
Passive ship = passive rigs.
If I fit it active I might use rigors, but most dps comes from drones so I would probably rather use sentry damage.
I fit rigors on ships like ravens and tengus where most damage comes from missiles. The rattler can easily just pull out some light drones and kill tackle frigs etc.
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Potato IQ
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Posted - 2011.07.22 08:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kesshisan My question was why do people have fits without them. ("Sans" is French for "without.")
Because they are doing it wrong. Drones are applying a lot of the DPS, but to ignore the missiles is incorrect
There is no need for any defensive rigs on the rattler in lvl 4Æs. You fit rigs that get the most out of your DPS. Sentry rig is a given, but to increase the cruise applied DPS, you need the rigor rig to get the explosive radius down when using fury, which is the missile to use for max DPS. This means also running a TP to ensure BC/cruisers are having the damage applied
You say youÆve got the isk, so you could add a CN Invulnerability Field with the CN ballistic and heat field so youÆve got a no need to swap out omni tank. With a Gistum shield booster (may need to drop down to a B or C) and the cap power relays making it cap stable, turn all on an you never have to worry about your tank, yet youÆve almost maximised the gank
I donÆt usually advocate a cap stable fit, but I went for it with the rattler because I didnÆt have to compromise the DPS too much, i.e. 4 CN BCS would be the ideal, and it allowed for easy dual boxing as was salvaging with my alt out of boredom of mission running. This was with only using a T2 medium shield booster
IÆm sure there are improvements that could be made, at cost, but compromising DPS for a massive buffer is not it
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.22 15:13:00 -
[21]
820 dps 696/419 tank (angels) 2922 volley drone range 46K+12K Missile range 227K 122866 EHP Lasts 4 minutes 28 seconds
[Rattlesnake] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Ballistic Deflection Field II Explosion Dampening Field II Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Cruise Missile Launcher II,Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II,Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II,Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II,Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Drones_Active=Garde II,5
However at all 5's im sure you can get a dominix more dps on paper, but in practice it would only get that DPS up close. Obviously swap mission specific hardeners.
. Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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