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Big Penos Burdette
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Posted - 2011.07.21 18:09:00 -
[1]
tl;dr "Is dual boxing a non-combat scout lame or does it help even the playing field without being completely risk free cowardice".
This is a thread about 'solo' gameplay in as much as it means one person at the controls of all 'ships in play'.
I firmly believe pure soloing to be flying a single ship with no external assistance although things like use of intel channels, Dotlan etc are perfectly fine. I would say 'of course' but I'm just trying to be clear.
Now:
I've recently tried out a couple of elements of dual boxing and apart from the extra nannying of two accounts in vulnerable situations, it's not an awful lot harder than running a single account. Of course you have the risk of losing even more since you are fielding more but with risk comes reward. The question is, is it lame to use scouts / fleet boosting alts or a second dps boat and believe it to be solo?
Even having a simple covert-ops scout that can give you a second set of eyes gives you a massive intel advantage, never mind the fact you can arrange warp in's or gain secure intel on camps and fleets. It especially enables you to scout for a larger vessel and save yourself from dying pointlessly to some lame gatecamp blobbers.
You are giving yourself some intel without relying on others, intel that a small gang of pilots could also gain. You also save throwing isk away to stupid blobs. From this point of view it makes a lot of sense to do this.
From another point of view, it is cowardly or cheap since you can hide one system over, scan out a target first and then jump in and immediately warp to them.
So basically:
Outside of straight up getting ganked I'm interested in using this to FACILITATE combat, not to avoid it.
The level of intel this gives me is highly appreciated but it feels cheap.
Should I stop worrying about it, almost everyone else is either in a fleet, blob or whatever and it just helps me level the playing field.
OR
It's cheap and ruins the notion of solo pvp.
BTW: I normally just fly about completely 100% solo but am trying something new here.
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Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
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Posted - 2011.07.21 18:17:00 -
[2]
General consensus is dual boxing is a-ok. Have fun.
PS - "Cowardly" and anything you do in Eve don't go together.
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mxzf
Minmatar Shovel Bros
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Posted - 2011.07.21 18:19:00 -
[3]
Eve is a cutthroat game, everyone in the game will use any possible means they can to come out on top, you shouldn't feel bad for doing the same. Anyone that tells you otherwise is trying to take away your advantage or keep their own advantage.
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2011.07.21 18:40:00 -
[4]
The odds are greatly stacked against you while soloing, so having a set of eyes gives you at least one edge. If only flying frigs or nano cruisers, then it's really not needed IMO, but anything bigger and you can save your self a lot of wasted time flying back to your station in a pod due to getting ganked by a gate camp.
I use a scout now days, a lot more than I care to, but I also try to keep it real and hop in a BC or Cruiser, then go for a blind suicide run. Nothing beats not knowing what the next jump will hold, it's a nice way to keep you on your toes from time to time.
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Yama Meijer
Gallente Malkutha
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Posted - 2011.07.21 18:41:00 -
[5]
If you can use it, use it. Don't listen to the whiners who whine about 'unfairness', if it's broke CCP will fix it or do something about it, unless they have told you not to do it, or it's against the EULA then you don't have to worry.
They used to whine about Warp core stabs, saying it was 'dishonourable' Maybe it was, but they won and you didn't CCP eventually 'fixed' them, but until they did, others wanted to whine and stop people from using them by saying they were 'dishonourable'. They say the same thing with falcons, and this isn't coming from kids by the way, this is fully grown men in their 30's.
TLDR: Don't worry about it, ignore the people who whine.
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.21 20:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: mxzf Eve is a cutthroat game, everyone in the game will use any possible means they can to come out on top, you shouldn't feel bad for doing the same. Anyone that tells you otherwise is trying to take away your advantage or keep their own advantage.
This. Well said.
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VKhaun Vex
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Posted - 2011.07.22 00:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Feligast
Originally by: mxzf Eve is a cutthroat game, everyone in the game will use any possible means they can to come out on top, you shouldn't feel bad for doing the same. Anyone that tells you otherwise is trying to take away your advantage or keep their own advantage.
This. Well said.
Dark Age of Camelot suffered with this forever. We always had thread after thread go to dozens of pages about 'buff bots'. Characters set up on another account to cast beneficial spells on a main character and then sit in a safe spot while that person roflstomped 1v1's they managed to get, or even killed two players that were allowed jumped them in some cases.
I'm actually Glad EVE has a community of such bastards. Makes the issue much less intrusive when people do what they want and just give you the finger, vs trying to justify it as fair or not. Currently training a 2nd account towards a gang link loki so I can buff frig gangs. Not sure what the range and requirements are on that so I don't know if it will be as safe as a buff bot was in DAoC, but we'll see.
Quote: Nothing in EVE will ever require real life money, as long as players are selling PLEX for ISK. Not even the monocle! http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/currencyCycle.jpg |
Written Word
Written Word's Tax Haven
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Posted - 2011.07.22 01:50:00 -
[8]
Everybody scouts or the very least, uses intel from friends.
There is no "honor" in EVE, it just something the loser comes up with to rationalize his loss to the world.
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Aggressive Nutmeg
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Posted - 2011.07.22 03:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Written Word There is no "honor" in EVE, it just something the loser comes up with to rationalize his loss to the world.
There absolutely IS honour in Eve. It's just that most of the honourable players don't post in this forum.
My definition of a 'loser' is one who gives up on striving for a better standard and instead falls into line with the lowest common denominator.
There are plenty of peasants playing EVE with their peasant morality (ie. no real life consequences = no online ethics). But there are still plenty of mature players out there trying to play the game at a higher level.
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foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.07.22 07:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Aggressive Nutmeg But there are still plenty of mature players out there trying to play the game at a higher level.
You mean scrubs? _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.07.22 07:52:00 -
[11]
after all Eve isn't a game where you can get respect for success in pvp. Only success is points on KB. So all you can do to grind those points is ok.
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Cedo Nulli
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Posted - 2011.07.22 10:02:00 -
[12]
Biggest problem and immersion killer in eve is the "You must have alts to do stuff efficient" ... and even worse is that you need to run them simultaniously.
You aint in the sandbox ... its those plastic men thats in the sandbox. Immersion gone.
(Ofc ccp favours this since one actual customer then generates the income that would normally require many people to have intrest in the game. Too bad it allso makes actual playerbase numbers into total bogus)
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.22 11:26:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Feligast on 22/07/2011 11:25:56
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Aggressive Nutmeg But there are still plenty of mature players out there trying to play the game at a higher level.
You mean scrubs?
Scrubs, whiners, wrecks, anti-blobbers, anti-piwates, role-players, what have you. People who think dragging mor(on)ality into a video game is "a higher level/purpose" are just idiots.
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Fore Khaos
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Posted - 2011.07.22 16:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Yama Meijer if it's broke CCP will fix it or do something about it,
What game are you playing?
Yes, honour went out the window when they introduced perma-loss. Yes EVE pvp sucks.
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Yama Meijer
Gallente Malkutha
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Posted - 2011.07.22 17:36:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Yama Meijer on 22/07/2011 17:35:55
Originally by: Yama Meijer if it's broke CCP will fix it or do something about it, Eventually
Fixed.
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Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
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Posted - 2011.07.22 19:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Fore Khaos
Originally by: Yama Meijer if it's broke CCP will fix it or do something about it,
What game are you playing?
Yes, honour went out the window when they introduced perma-loss. Yes EVE pvp sucks.
Please fix or do somefink?
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.22 20:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Fore Khaos
Originally by: Yama Meijer if it's broke CCP will fix it or do something about it,
What game are you playing?
Yes, honour went out the window when they introduced perma-loss. Yes EVE pvp sucks.
I hear Hello Kitty Online is quite honoureablue
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Griznatch
Gallente Xicron Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.22 20:44:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Griznatch on 22/07/2011 20:44:34 If anyone refuses to use all the tools at thier disposal they dont deserve to win. If its just you at the keyboard its solo. **** em if they dont have their own falcon/guardian/covops/etc.
Quote: whats a signature?
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hmmmmdmrummm
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Posted - 2011.07.23 08:00:00 -
[19]
Triple boxing with 2 falcons is where its at.
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Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.23 08:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Griznatch If anyone refuses to use all the tools at thier disposal they dont deserve to win. If its just you at the keyboard its solo. **** em if they dont have their own falcon/guardian/covops/etc.
This is why the rest of us blob you.
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foxnod
Brotherhood of the Coast
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Posted - 2011.07.23 17:37:00 -
[21]
Dual-boxin with a neut cov. ops scout is almost mandatory for pvp in my book because of the way local and probing work. CCP should have done something about local 4 years ago.
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Aquana Abyss
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Posted - 2011.07.23 22:23:00 -
[22]
"solo" means 1 ship...
Anyone claiming they are "solo pvper" when they are flying more than one ship is full of sh..t
However, honour is intangible in Eve. If you die with honor in a 1v1, you're building your reputation 1 loss at a time, but you're also losing. If you're winning honorably, noone cares but you, and if you're winning dishonourably only your opponents care.
At the end of the day it is down to you to decide what suits you best, stop worrying what other people think because everyone else has different expectations and you can't please them all.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.07.24 02:40:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Aggressive Nutmeg
There are plenty of peasants playing EVE with their peasant morality (ie. no real life consequences = no online ethics).
That's a bizarre choice of words. What is "peasant" about not having online ethics?
Pretty sure peasants didn't have a lot of internet access to play games with anyway, back then.
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
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Posted - 2011.07.24 04:07:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 24/07/2011 04:08:36
Originally by: Big Penos Burdette tl;dr "Is dual boxing a non-combat scout lame or does it help even the playing field without being completely risk free cowardice".
This is a thread about 'solo' gameplay in as much as it means one person at the controls of all 'ships in play'.
I firmly believe pure soloing to be flying a single ship with no external assistance although things like use of intel channels, Dotlan etc are perfectly fine. I would say 'of course' but I'm just trying to be clear.
So what? Just accept it being 'not solo' and have fun.
The blob already has got a huge advantage and I for one don't see much point in providing them even bigger one except for that bit of extra challenge, which you can get anytime by simply engaging bigger gangs in the first place. The difference is that in the latter case you're doing it not totally blind, which is a good thing since there's not much fun in pure gambling. On the other hand ultimate intel is also bad, but that's how game mechanics is set by CCP and a regular player just have to deal with it.
I've done single-ship soloing and I've done dual- and tripple-boxing. And I don't see much difference there in terms of opposing yourself (as a man) to those in the overview. And I don't really care whether it's 'solo PvP' or it's 'gang-warfare' (LOL). That's just like feeling bad cause you decided to use expensive mods. While it's surely possible to utilize those for assuring safe ganks in little to no-risk situtations, you can also try to do something more challenging with this gear. That's you to decide what you're after. ---
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?
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Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.24 04:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Fon Revedhort
I've done single-ship soloing and I've done dual- and tripple-boxing. And I don't see much difference there in terms of opposing yourself (as a man) to those in the overview. And I don't really care whether it's 'solo PvP' or it's 'gang-warfare' (LOL). That's just like feeling bad cause you decided to use expensive mods. While it's surely possible to utilize those for assuring safe ganks in little to no-risk situtations, you can also try to do something more challenging with this gear. That's you to decide what you're after.
Confirming that using a faciton/ds fit affords similar advantages to having superior intel and having a falcon or -insert other ubiquitous alt ship- present. That was, in no way, a seriously stupid comparison.
I've got nothing against multi-client roaming "solo." In so far as, you are the only player. But, you have to give a nod to anyone who accuses you of not being "solo," aswell. I find the entire semantic argument tiresome, personally.
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
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Posted - 2011.07.24 05:43:00 -
[26]
You're a no-name alt and thus can not confirm or deny anything.
And if anything I've never stated that mods are equal to intel or whatever. You failed to get the idea that either of this can be used in two ways - to guarantee a safe gank or to 'level up' and compete at higher stakes. ---
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?
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Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.24 05:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Fon Revedhort You're a no-name alt and thus can not confirm or deny anything.
Oh but I can read:
Originally by: Fon Revedhort
That's just like feeling bad cause you decided to use expensive mods.
Originally by: Fon Revedhort
And if anything I've never stated that mods are equal to intel or whatever.
I think that you did.
Originally by: Fon Revedhort You failed to get the idea that either of this can be used in two ways - to guarantee a safe gank or to 'level up' and compete at higher stakes.
I actually said, exactly that. Not sure how you missed it.
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Big Penos Burdette
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Posted - 2011.07.24 10:23:00 -
[28]
Thanks for all the great replies people. I'm surprised to see such support for scouting, I think if you went back two or three years you would see, overall, a much less positive response. I guess the game really is changing!
For me, the desire to do so came about because of several things...
Links Remote sensor boosting FALCONS
... and the generally confusing factor that people still like to blob up, hate to lose even if it means looking like bad players despite the fact that ISK making is at an all time high and costs are at an all time low
Finally:
Unless you are a complete idiot it's obvious Fon is talking about getting any advantage you can as an individual, not that fancy mods = falcon!!!111
**** off and troll some other thread you ******. Also post on your main unless you want to be considered incompetent.
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Kaileen Starsong
Amarr Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.24 12:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Big Penos Burdette Thanks for all the great replies people. I'm surprised to see such support for scouting, I think if you went back two or three years you would see, overall, a much less positive response.
Tbh, everyone was whining about falcon alts 2-3 years ago, which were quite numerous. Now there's much less of them and effect of scout/booster is not as obvious, hence less complaints about them.
I admit, scout(scout-booster later) was one of the best investments in game - fun/time ratio just skyrockets, since you can actually find fights(yeah, well, sometimes..). Though it does feel funny when you run around with 2 other guys and total gang size is 6-7, which kind of sucks to manage(and that's without logis/ew) :\
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