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2 missile techs we have TODAY but are missing in Eve (10k years later)

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Keva	Posted - 2005.02.25 08:51:00 - [1] We have tracking jammers in eve but not guidance jammers. Why? Even today the ability to jam an enemies missile guidance is a cornerstone in aviation power. Why not have a mid power module "Guidance Jammer I" 40% chance to decoy incomming missile. The mod would have an activation and work similar to any other disruptor. Now you could have some missile that trade firepower for ECM hardening. i.e 1/3 less dmg but has a stat 50% reduction in jamming sucess. Maybe CCP could implement an area effect module (a jammer that affects all enemy missiles within a 20km radius? and would protect group mates from harm. It would have a much lower base chance and a very high cap drain, but it could support the gang. The second tech is a point defense cannon. US Navy has the abord all their ships. I am sure most modern navies have a similar design. In space with clear los and lasers the effect would be more devestating. Now here is the catch. The module would destroy 1 missile but have a ROF delay so it could destroy only so many missiles. Rather than just everyone using torps you may want to load say heavy missiles and fire more since you could overwhelm the point defense cannons and some would get through. Now I know CCP is changing missiles but I hope something like this gets implemented. Two simple techs and you now have made missile combat more interesting.... do I use hardened missiles or go for max dmg? do I fire 1 torp and risk it's destruction or do I fire 2 heavies? In gang battles finding and killing the missle jamming ship would be essential, but maybe the two support cruisers (once ccp fixes them) are boosting it's defenses. So the fleet commander has a decision... do I waste time killing the reinforced missile jammer or do I kill the cruisers to weaken the missile jammer or do I ignore both and go for the damage dealers (knowing that missile jammer is seriosuly degrading my fleets missile capabilities). Your thoughts?
Keva	Posted - 2005.02.25 08:55:00 - [2] Also you would have the obvious related skills.... Missile Jamming. +5% to jamming sucess per level. Point Defense Systems -5% to ROF per level. now the # would need to tweaked to not make the systems too powerful but still make them useful. I will leave that to ccp the # listed here are just to get the "ball rolling".
VossKarr	Posted - 2005.02.25 09:11:00 - [3] Modern missiles have a HOJ (Home-On-Jam) mode. Besides, they don't usually jam the missiles themselves but the platforms launching them. There are infrared/laser jammmers, though, for those missiles that use laser/IR guidance.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.02.25 09:46:00 - [4] Well, from the dev-chat it sounds like missile defence is getting looked at as part of the missile tweaking, and they've admitted to at least one new missile-defence module being in development.
Polaris Lumine	Posted - 2005.02.25 10:51:00 - [5] omg I just posted the same suggestion in the missile fix thread. I'm with you on this one Keva -- Polaris Lumine
Kuolematon	Posted - 2005.02.25 12:48:00 - [6] Yes please. I want hazzle-free and worry-free defence that disables at least 40% of raw damage to me. For hybrid and projektiles we should get "moving armor plates" that hovers around you with zoom speed and takes out 40% of all ammo shoot before they reach ship and then do normal calculations for hitting. Also for lasers, moving MIRRORS to reflect that pesky mega pulse away back to its shooter !! 40% damage returned! DAMAGE SHIELD! _______________________________________________ My opinions aren't my corporations opinions. (\_/) (x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious.
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.02.25 13:26:00 - [7] yes plz make ravens useless so people will refine em! man, jamming missles means no raven will be able to kill anything for example. not enuff that it takes loads of time to missle to get ot its target? no you wanna jam em? -=-
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2005.02.25 13:51:00 - [8] how about chaffs & flare sytle things aswell, load em in a laucher and deploy, would be great for inter pilots.
lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.02.25 13:52:00 - [9] Unless light and heavy missiles get boosted first, this change would completely gimp smaller missiles making them totaly useless.. The smaller missiles (light and Heavy) are already on a par with guns of related size. So yeah, I'll agree with ya that its a good idea, as long as we get a module that deflects 40% of incoming turret fire.. Oh, and you want an antimissile system, well youv'e already got one. They are called defenders.. What you are asking for is an even more effective anti-missile system. Have you ever wondered why defenders arent more efficent? its because if they were theyd be too efficent.. To Defeat missiles currenty you can :- 1) Outfly missiles 2) Shoot them down with defenders 3) Blow them up with smart bombs. Now you want to add what will probably be a mid slot jammer and what would probably be a new anti-missile high slot that could be combined to probably give you 95% missile protection.. I pray to god this doesnt happen. You have some good ideas, and yes they would be cool. But they would completely gimp smaller missiles.. TBH I think all the changes we are going to see are.. 1)Cruise missiles can only go in cruise launchers, torps only in Siege launchers 2) Hard cap on the dammage cruise missiles and torps can do on frigates..
KompleX	Posted - 2005.02.25 14:00:00 - [10] Originally by: lythos miralbar Unless light and heavy missiles get boosted first, this change would completely gimp smaller missiles making them totaly useless.. The smaller missiles (light and Heavy) are already on a par with guns of related size. So yeah, I'll agree with ya that its a good idea, as long as we get a module that deflects 40% of incoming turret fire.. Oh, and you want an antimissile system, well youv'e already got one. They are called defenders.. What you are asking for is an even more effective anti-missile system. Have you ever wondered why defenders arent more efficent? its because if they were theyd be too efficent.. To Defeat missiles currenty you can :- 1) Outfly missiles 2) Shoot them down with defenders 3) Blow them up with smart bombs. Now you want to add what will probably be a mid slot jammer and what would probably be a new anti-missile high slot that could be combined to probably give you 95% missile protection.. I pray to god this doesnt happen. You have some good ideas, and yes they would be cool. But they would completely gimp smaller missiles.. TBH I think all the changes we are going to see are.. 1)Cruise missiles can only go in cruise launchers, torps only in Siege launchers 2) Hard cap on the dammage cruise missiles and torps can do on frigates.. You already have that though, it's called horrible tracking, ecm, tracking disruptors and dampers.
Henka	Posted - 2005.02.25 14:04:00 - [11] Dude, for the aveage gallente pilot there is no "suitable" anti missile gear: Move fast? Sure, but only interceptors can outrun missiles atm. Destroy with defenders? Sure, but amarr and gallente have only got 1 ship in each class that EVER HAVE A LAUNCHER SLOT Destroy with smartbombs? Only large ones are usefull and they chew more cap then a frikking repair, and there is no range readings on missiles any more so timing them is a waste of energy. So atm missiles are 100% fool proof CLOSE AND MID RANGE WEAPON... no counters thats even remotely usefull. compare that with orbiting a turreted ship in even a AB will nullfy alot of the damage done. And missiles deal more dmg then most turret ships but has crap easy fitting req and no cap useage. If you wanna argue, get me some facts for usefull counters for missiles (atm orbit is not even worth it cuz missiles lead the targets)
Stuart85	Posted - 2005.02.25 15:37:00 - [12] Edited by: Stuart85 on 25/02/2005 15:37:17 As long as this doesn't nerf the Small and Heavy Missiles which are already weak enough. For a Caracal pilot, due to laucher ROF, having every single missile hit is the bare minimum expected, so reducing the chances of these missiles to hit is ludicrous. Any changes in the ability of Small and Heavy Missiles to hit their target should be met with a major boost in their abilities.
Lauriers	Posted - 2005.02.25 16:02:00 - [13] how about if they do this make a caldari BS that's a railgun platform (i.e. give the raven a hybrid bonus?) or a new BS that's like the big brother of the merlin->Moa->??
Entreri Finwe	Posted - 2005.02.25 16:12:00 - [14] This suggestion would make missiles utterly worthless... I could agree to have a turret based missile defence though... --- Auir Sacra Fames "The cursed hunger for gold"
Zaintiraris	Posted - 2005.02.25 16:13:00 - [15] Missiles recieve their information at the time of launch. No jamming would take place within your ship. At that point, unless you shot out some kinda EMP that would kill your own ship, there isn't much you can do other than shoot it down. Thus, defenders. Oh wait, that was just someone whining about getting pwned by a raven, heheh. Nevermind. --- Originally by: CCP Hammer This game was so much better back before people knew math.
lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.02.25 16:42:00 - [16] Edited by: lythos miralbar on 25/02/2005 16:46:21 Quote: So atm missiles are 100% fool proof CLOSE AND MID RANGE WEAPON... no counters thats even remotely usefull. ok I'll agree with ya, but only against galentine ships then.. Amar BS's could use easyily use smarties, and mimnatar have missile slots.. Awnser = give galentine a couple of missile slots.. I'm generalising alot, but lets juust make the point anyway :- galentine frig vs missile frig (kestrel) = galentine frig outruns the light missiles galentine cruiser vs missile cruiser (caracal)= depends on ranges, but if under 20km galentine goes up close and personal and outdammages missile cruiser by a long way whilst tanking its dammage. Galentine BS vs missile bs (raven) = galentine BS gets owned.. Yeah sure nerf the big missiles, but leave the lights and heavies alone.. Quote: how about if they do this make a caldari BS that's a railgun platform (i.e. give the raven a hybrid bonus?) or a new BS that's like the big brother of the merlin->Moa->?? yup.. that would do it. let the raven and scorp mount a full rack of rails.. take away the missile velocity bonus's, and give em a hybrid bonus..
Vigilant	Posted - 2005.02.25 16:50:00 - [17] Can we say CIWS (Close in Weapons System).... We already have weapons jammers.... Just need CIWS to shoot down missiles now... Takes a HIGH Slot.... Limited number of shots...or Heavy Ammo...so it can't be abused... That would work....
Niki Silver	Posted - 2005.02.25 19:04:00 - [18] Don't forget that Defenders are broken and have been. The flare/chaffe sounds like a good idea. But I think the anti missile turret is the way to go. It helps to defend and it adds some variety to ship set ups. Do I use this turret point for another damage dealing module or do I use it for an anti missile battery? Lots of peeps have said, myself included in other posts, just use defenders... Couple problems with defenders. They are bugged and mess up your ships velocity. They all go for the first missile in the pack, once it's destroyed the others just fly off into space. It takes like 3 of them to down 1 torp, etc, etc. They just don't work well. I don't want to see missiles get nerfed into uselessness anymore then anyone else does, but I do think they are currently to easy to use, too reliable, and a tad overpowered. I think it would be cool to give say, the raven, a bit of a powergrid boost and see some raven's out there with 4 guns and 4 launchers, instead of being so totally reliant on missiles.
marioman	Posted - 2005.02.25 19:48:00 - [19] or we could just do away turrets completely and make all other races missleboats :D
Roba	Posted - 2005.02.25 20:23:00 - [20] Edited by: Roba on 25/02/2005 20:28:30 Originally by: Morkt Drakt how about chaffs & flare sytle things aswell, load em in a laucher and deploy, would be great for inter pilots. We already had that and it was taken away. Anyone remember mines? They couldn't kill player ships... but they were extremely effective against missiles. Start obiting a ship using missiles and beging to spam mines around them. Now as they launch their the mines lock onto the missiles, chase it down, and boom. This worked great for ruptures with oversized abs. Not fast enough to out run missiles some of the time. So you would load mines into your launcher and drop them as you flew around. They would go after and kill any missiles on your tail. Also the chaf idea worked to. If the ravens or scorps were coming to you... ie you were camping or something, you could drop 100 mines while sitting in one place. The mines would spread themselves out around you to a distance of about 5km. Now you had a soild feild of mines surounding your ship. When missiles come spamming towards you, the mines rip them to streads as they cross into your 5km bubble of mines. After about a minute or two your mine feild die and missiles would start getting thru. Also if you had to many missiles coming at you the mines wouldn't respond fast enough and you would start having some get thru. Mines work a hell of a lot better then defenders. I was ****ed when they took them out. I was shocked that CCP and seemingly no one else had noticed that they worked as a good missile deffence.
Costranno	Posted - 2005.02.25 20:43:00 - [21] Good ideas. I would like to see EW ships be able to reverse the polarity of missiles and send them back at the shooter like in Cowboy Bebop :). Wishful thinking anyway. It would also be cool to see super close range weapons or maybe even weapons that can hit multiple targets like flechette cannons, plasma weapons, flak, particle accelerators or phase-transit to pass through shields completely!
Other Minion	Posted - 2005.02.26 04:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Costranno Good ideas. I would like to see EW ships be able to reverse the polarity of missiles and send them back at the shooter like in Cowboy Bebop :). Wishful thinking anyway. It would also be cool to see super close range weapons or maybe even weapons that can hit multiple targets like flechette cannons, plasma weapons, flak, particle accelerators or phase-transit to pass through shields completely! eve kinda does remind me of cowboy bebop
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2005.02.26 04:48:00 - [23] Keva has very good points. There are a plethora of missile ideas that could make missiles a TRULY diverse weapon system, a joy to use, and fun also, because you would never know what you would encounter (as both a target and a missile user also). If you read some of David Weber's books, like the Shiva Option, and check out the Starfire (tm) ship combat system, you will see that they have TONS of fun and creative missile type stuff in there. For example: Close assault missiles (CAM) - heavy warhead close range missiles Strategic Bombardment missiles (SBM) - ultra long range, medium warhead missiles Capital missiles (CM)- heavy warhead, semi-long range mounting penetration aid ECM, to defeat point defense systems Sprint mode launchers - Self explanatory, stick these on a Raven and go to town! (trading range for increased rate of fire - smart idea IMHO). Of course, there are counter measures, to each of these, but hey, you can't have your cake and eat it too, plus, you can only mount so many counter measures anyway. The EVE missile system could be SO VERY MUCH richer, funner, and more entertaining then the current "put 6 siege loaded with EM torps and pack 1-5 ballistic mods" cookie cutter approach. So far, we have 4 kinds of missiles (rocket, light, heavy, cruise) and torps, each with 4 damage types. That's a grand total of 20 types of self-guiding munitions, and 5 stinking launcher types. Boooooring I'd like to have more missile choices, more warheads, more munitions options, more guidance options, more launcher types, more countermeasures, more ways to damage people. The current limited set of self-guiding munitions in EVE is inherently boring.

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