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Extra gametime for downtime? No way.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Ravior Letam	Posted - 2011.07.24 08:13:00 - [1] Hey forum, I just wanted to find out what the CCP staff at Fanfest meant when they said "We love the players!". So I filed a petiton with the reason of asking for one more gametime day - since the servers where down nearly an entire day when Incarna 1.0 was released. Here is the entire conversation; I cut nothing from it (just reversed the order so you can read everything chronologically). Please tell me what you, the players, think about this (if there's staff around here, of course please join the conversation; mabye you could explain in further detail what happened here). ---------------------------------- Petition Body Hello there. Due to the fact that the eve-servers were offline much more than usual in the last time, I think it's just fair for players to get free gametime for that. What do you think about this? Greetings, Ravior Letam -- Hello, Sorry for the wait. I'm afraid we cannot offer compensation for any temporary planned or unplanned server outages. We do not and cannot guarantee 100% server availability,as stated in our EULA. Best regards, Senior GM Capella -- Hello. I understand that you cannot Guarrantee for 100% Server uptime. That's something, nobody can offer. But there should be a way for you to excuse paying customers when they cannot access EVE for an entire day. Just as an Example I could say the deployment of Incarna 1.0. Also, I wasn't really asking for a guarantee or something like that, just for a compensation of some longer downtime, which shouldn't really cost CCP anything and would go as a pleasuring excuse for players. So if you want to keep paying customers, you should be able to say "excuse me" in an suitable way. Greetings, Ravior Letam -- Your frustration is understandable, however, we will not be able to offer any compensation for any potential game-time lost. We do apologize for the inconvenience this might have caused. Please let me know if you have any other questions, or if this petition can be closed. Best regards, Senior GM Capella -- Hello, May I ask why you will not be able to offer any compensation for any potential game-time lost? Because from a costumer - corporation relationship standpoint, I cannot understand this. Greetings, Ravior Letam -- Because we do not guarantee the server being operational for 100% of your pay period - it is our policy to not grant partial game-time refunds for any server outages - planned or non planned. Best regards, Senior GM Capella -- Okay. But just because to be sure: What if, f.e. the Servers are down for a couple of days or even a week. What will happen in that case? Will you not excuse yourself for that in front of your customers as well? -- I'm afraid I would not be able to answer a hypothetical question. Every decision is made on a case-by-case basis. In this case - I'm afraid the answer is "no". Best regards, Senior GM Capella -- Okay, no problem. In that case, could I please have this petition forwarded to someone in your staff who is able to answer to my question? Greetings, Ravior Letam -- I'm afraid your best bet is to either post on our official forums, if you have suggestions or comments regarding our policies, or two write a letter to our corporate office. As far as your inquiry goes, there is no further department to forward it to, in order to answer the question that you have asked. It is doubtful that anyone in our company would be willing to give a description of decisions that might be taken during a future hypothetical event. If it is the question of compensation, as a Senior GM - I am fully authorized to make the final calling on this, in accordance with our policies. However, you are welcome to voice your opinions on our forums, and contact our corporate office. This matter has been taken as far as it can go. With that, I am closing this petition. Should you have any other issues, please feel free to contact us. Best regards, Senior GM Capella
Ravior Letam	Posted - 2011.07.24 08:16:00 - [2] After that, the petition was closed without any further asking from the operator like I was used to from all my other petitions. I really just want to understand why this all goes so wrong and a simple asking for compensation is blocked with CCP hiding behind their EULA instead of being nice and kind and stuff. This just seams plain non-serious to me.
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.07.24 08:18:00 - [3] In before the GM correspondence is removed. Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.07.24 08:18:00 - [4] 1. don't post chat logs with GMs 2. If eve is down for a big update then go outside and do something like watch a film, go have a meal out, climb a montain, tame the sea or something.
Feligast Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.07.24 08:19:00 - [5] Edited by: Feligast on 24/07/2011 08:18:58 Originally by: Mag's In before the GM correspondence is removed. Damn you Mags.. I had to log in first :(
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.07.24 08:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Feligast Edited by: Feligast on 24/07/2011 08:18:58 Originally by: Mag's In before the GM correspondence is removed. Damn you Mags.. I had to log in first :( Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.24 08:31:00 - [7] Please don't post GM correspondence on the forums. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Janek Dax Gallente	Posted - 2011.07.24 08:32:00 - [8] Edited by: Janek Dax on 24/07/2011 08:34:07 Whilst I can understand what you are trying to say, you had to be told no, 5 times ?? then bring it to the forums for us to do what ?? Sympathise, join the crusade, petition CCP on your behalf ?? If you haven't realised where CCP's stance is towards paying customers throughout the whole Incarna saga, then you must have been running round with your eyes closed for the last month or so !! As long as you pay your money, whether through hard cash or isk/plex each month they will love you. Caring about you, having company/customer relations, reimbursing you, compensating you or basically giving a damn isn't part of the package, so in the words of CCP themselves HTFU Edited for this, here is the caring side Originally by: CCP Spitfire Please don't post GM correspondence on the forums.
Tobias Sjodin Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.07.24 09:15:00 - [9] CCP gives away free gametime on several occasions. Though, I doubt you'll get it if/when you're being an offensive annoying twit. HABIT
Important Person	Posted - 2011.07.24 09:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Ravior Letam Please tell me what you, the players, think about this Douchebag.

Musashi IV	Posted - 2011.07.24 09:34:00 - [11] If you want free game time do not renew your subscription and then use PLEX for game time. This will give you 4 hours of game time for free. Who said CCP does not love you!
Max Keitt Keitt Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2011.07.24 10:31:00 - [12] I think MMOs are some of the cheapest entertainment around. At $15 per day that's what, 50 cents you're out? Stop crying, tbh. ~+=+~ TQ Power Supplies Learning to PVP
Eugene Spencer Rodents of Unusual Size	Posted - 2011.07.24 11:18:00 - [13] Originally by: Ravior Letam Please tell me what you, the players, think about this I think you're an idiot. I actually don't even know why I am wasting my time replying to this thread. ===== I have a specific comb for my beard.
Ravior Letam	Posted - 2011.07.24 11:28:00 - [14] Edited by: Ravior Letam on 24/07/2011 11:31:01 Originally by: Janek Dax If you haven't realised where CCP's stance is towards paying customers throughout the whole Incarna saga, then you must have been running round with your eyes closed for the last month or so !! You see, it's rather like I wanted to verify what I was allready thinking since that happened ;) Originally by: Janek Dax Edited for this, here is the caring side Originally by: CCP Spitfire Please don't post GM correspondence on the forums. Yeah exactly :D Thats awesome. I can't believe what I just got into :D In germany, we've got a name for that: :D
William Pullman	Posted - 2011.07.24 11:35:00 - [15] In-jokes aren't clever. Shutup.
Galphram NefreX	Posted - 2011.07.24 11:38:00 - [16] Do what everyone else does post all GM correspondence off forums where they can't just delete it.
Scorn Gojira	Posted - 2011.07.24 14:37:00 - [17] Hi Ravior. I just wanted to take a second to stop by and post a statement or two. 1. You are a pillow-biting douche. 2. Your avatar only makes the pillow-biting douche effect worse. Have a good day. o7
Ravior Letam	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Galphram NefreX Do what everyone else does post all GM correspondence off forums where they can't just delete it. Sorry, didn't know about this. I didn't know as well that they would delete stuff like that from the forums. Even though the Correspondand told me that I could go here and ask the community to talk about this.
Ravior Letam	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:31:00 - [19] Edited by: Ravior Letam on 24/07/2011 16:35:29 Originally by: baltec1 1. don't post chat logs with GMs 2. If eve is down for a big update then go outside and do something like watch a film, go have a meal out, climb a montain, tame the sea or something. Of course thats exactly what I did. I was climbing a mountain and then fell off and scratched my toe. Then I needed to cry hard. Thats why I'm offended by ccp, isnt that clear so far? ;) Listen guys, this isn't about ONE DAY of extra gametime. I see this as a precedent for something happening like that and I just plainly want to know what people think about this. And that is both, ccp and the customers.
Ranger 1 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Ravior Letam Originally by: Galphram NefreX Do what everyone else does post all GM correspondence off forums where they can't just delete it. Sorry, didn't know about this. I didn't know as well that they would delete stuff like that from the forums. Even though the Correspondand told me that I could go here and ask the community to talk about this. 1: Read the EULA you agreed to. 2: Stop embarrassing yourself. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.

Ravior Letam	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Ranger 1 1: Read the EULA you agreed to. 2: Stop embarrassing yourself. Are you giving me commands here or what? Cant I ****ing ask when I have a favor? Whats up with you guys?
Sarmatiko	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:39:00 - [22] HEY CCP WHERE IS MY GAMETIME GOES WHILE I'M SLEEPING AND NOT PLAYING???!!! REIMBURSEMENTS!!!
Zagdul Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:40:00 - [23] You've just wasted a GM's time for which could have been better used answering more crucial petitions. In my opinion, you should be banned for wasting CCP's time and some poor dude who had a legitimate concern.
Ravior Letam	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Zagdul You've just wasted a GM's time for which could have been better used answering more crucial petitions. In my opinion, you should be banned for wasting CCP's time and some poor dude who had a legitimate concern. I'm a customer. And as such, I have the right to ask questions in different ways, as such would be a petiton.
Ranger 1 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:46:00 - [25] Originally by: Ravior Letam Edited by: Ravior Letam on 24/07/2011 16:38:42 Originally by: Ranger 1 1: Read the EULA you agreed to. 2: Stop embarrassing yourself. Are you giving me commands here or what? Cant I ****ing ask when I have a favor? Whats up with you guys? If you people are to flat to think a little outside the box then this is not my problem because I'm not asking you, I ask the ones who want to. I understand the terms and conditions I agreed to when I started my subscription. You do not. Downtime related to the release of an expansion or patch is not reimbursable. A significant amount of unexpected downtime can be (and has been several times in the past) reimbursable in various ways at their discretion. I did not see the GM response before it was, of course, removed... but I imagine it explained exactly that. What part of "No" do you not understand, and why do you insist on childishly arguing the point when you yourself agreed to these conditions? For your own sake, take the advice given. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Ravior Letam	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:47:00 - [26] Ok people, i've learned my lesson. When I'm interested in talking about stuff seriously, these forums aren't the right place.
Ranger 1 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Ravior Letam Ok people, i've learned my lesson. When I'm interested in talking about stuff seriously, these forums aren't the right place. When you have something worth discussing, come back and people will be more than happy to discuss it with you. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Atif Yilmaz	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:51:00 - [28] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Please don't post GM correspondence on the forums. In the old days, CCP would often give us a free day if they failed and went overtime when patching. I dont think CCP really cares about their customers any more. If they did, they would consider giving us a few free days following the 3+ servercrashes a week we had following Incarna.
Ranger 1 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.07.24 16:55:00 - [29] Originally by: Atif Yilmaz Originally by: CCP Spitfire Please don't post GM correspondence on the forums. In the old days, CCP would often give us a free day if they failed and went overtime when patching. I dont think CCP really cares about their customers any more. If they did, they would consider giving us a few free days following the 3+ servercrashes a week we had following Incarna. If they reimbursed you that time, how much would it add up to? A few hours, probably far less. Server crashes/reboots sometimes happen after an expansion. They know this, we know this. If you really want to be reimbursed, check under your sofa cushions for loose change. That should cover it. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Atif Yilmaz	Posted - 2011.07.24 17:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Atif Yilmaz Originally by: CCP Spitfire Please don't post GM correspondence on the forums. In the old days, CCP would often give us a free day if they failed and went overtime when patching. I dont think CCP really cares about their customers any more. If they did, they would consider giving us a few free days following the 3+ servercrashes a week we had following Incarna. If they reimbursed you that time, how much would it add up to? A few hours, probably far less. Server crashes/reboots sometimes happen after an expansion. They know this, we know this. If you really want to be reimbursed, check under your sofa cushions for loose change. That should cover it. No. They would on occasion give us (everyone) an entire free day (24h) of game time, not minutes/hours (what would be the point?) So your speculation is entirely off because you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, crashes happen after a patch, but not three or four times a week. For any production environment that would be a unacceptable level of stability and should warrant some kind of reimbursement. And yes if you do the calculations one day is not that much in real world currency, but that is besides the point. What we were discussing before you delivered your spew of invalid arguments was the POSSIBILITY of returning to a time when CCP gave us a free day whenever they messed up. No go lie down and stop breathing, that would allow the rest of the world some respite from your meaningless typing.

Zag'mar Jurkar Minmatar Advent of the Blood Sun	Posted - 2011.07.24 17:14:00 - [31] Originally by: Ravior Letam Ok people, i've learned my lesson. When I'm interested in talking without having to face other people stances and opinions/facts on stuff, these forums aren't the right place. fix'd
Ranger 1 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.07.24 17:17:00 - [32] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 24/07/2011 17:18:23 Quote: No. They would on occasion give us (everyone) an entire free day (24h) of game time, not minutes/hours (what would be the point?) So your speculation is entirely off because you have no idea what you are talking about. You must have missed this in my post earlier in this thread. Quote: A significant amount of unexpected downtime can be (and has been several times in the past) reimbursable in various ways at their discretion. The keyword there being significant. In the past this has been when the unexpected down times were approaching or passing the 24 hour mark. Quote: Yes, crashes happen after a patch, but not three or four times a week. For any production environment that would be a unacceptable level of stability and should warrant some kind of reimbursement. There have been several expansions that had far more than three or four crashes afterward in that time frame. Oh, and name another single shard production environment similar to EVE. Quote: And yes if you do the calculations one day is not that much in real world currency, but that is besides the point. Actually, that IS the point of this thread. Quote: What we were discussing before you delivered your spew of invalid arguments was the POSSIBILITY of returning to a time when CCP gave us a free day whenever they messed up. No go lie down and stop breathing, that would allow the rest of the world some respite from your meaningless typing. I've been playing since Beta my friend, and CCP has NEVER reimbursed a free day of play for a few brief service outages. In the past they have only done this when a significant amount of unexpected down time occurred. Usually this occurred when the down times approached or exceeded 24 hours in a relatively short period of time. Before you stoop to the level of personal insults, perhaps you could find something to back up your claims and disprove mine. But we both know that won't be happening, don't we. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Tarrak Varn	Posted - 2011.07.24 21:59:00 - [33] I just read the correspondence between you and the GM on a popular EVE-focused search facility run by Chribba. You're an idiot. You're arrogant. You're self-righteous. I wouldn't be surprised if this thread wasn't being locked my mods / GMs for the sole purpose of providing the internet with a prime example of what a half-witted moron looks like. Please cancel your subscription - you are single-handedly bringing the average IQ of the entire EVE community down. One love, Tarrak


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