|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 64 post(s) |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
462
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 12:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dev blog coming soon...
In summary we have gone through and upgraded all NPC in the game to the new level one AI making them smarter. It is important to note that their damage output and EWAR capabilities have not changes. The biggest difference will be that they target switch.
If you can it would be greatly appreciated if you played through a couple missions, especially with multiple people/accounts and gave us some feedback.
We are aware that currently the navy in high sec is shooting everyone, and giving them GCC, and then letting CONCORD pile on. We have a fix internally for this already. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
463
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 13:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hosedna wrote:How will NPC aggro toward drones be managed ? Will they hate drones as much as sleepers do, or will it still be possible to use drone boats for missionning ? Give this just a bit longer and the dev blog will answer it. I really didn't want to post this until after the dev blog, but I wanted a link here in the dev blog. Stupid chicken or egg. :/ Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
464
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 13:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Ill have to wait for you to fix high sec before i test. But: I do fly in W-space which has the target switching AI. As a drone user, its a big problem. A Sleeper site does not have very many NPCs and they are quite valuable, so catching drone aggro can be accepted.
But in a mission? This will be a severe nerf to all drone specialists. Gun users do not have to worry about their guns catching aggro and getting destroyed unless they spend 30 seconds recalling them every 2 minutes. Maybe consider:
Right now the target switching AI will always switch targets once every 2 minutes irrelevant of the treat of targets. If there is a Tengu and one Warrior I on the field, it will switch to the Warrior as its the only other available target. Maybe that should be changed: Have the treat assessment of which target to go after include the current target.
Edit: I go caught by the "chicken or egg" issue too. Ill wait to see the blog, and better yet, test myself.
Not a problem, sorry for not saying much aside from "wait for the dev blog." :( Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
464
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 13:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:dev blog how soon??
have i got time to put the kettle on?
Like I have submitted it and just waiting for community to press the button. In other words please don't tell them this thread exists. :P Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
466
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 13:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:dev blog how soon??
have i got time to put the kettle on? Like I have submitted it and just waiting for community to press the button. In other words please don't tell them this thread exists. :P Are we talking they have to go through a meeting, or just press a nice red shiny button saying "Post it"? This is important as otherwise i need to go find some work to do
I shall poke them. :P But you may be best to find some work to do. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
468
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 14:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Blog is up: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73413 Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 15:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rutger Janssen wrote:Quote:and got some of our QA and Bug Hunters to hammer through missions So that's why bug reports are seemingly not processed anymore? I guess the change is gonna make things more "interesting" for grouped players; non-drone solo boats won't notice a change I imagine? This change is gonna suck for (nullsec) miners, can't have 1 player tank(in a hulk) the belts rats anymore and have everyone else fly hulks and haulers. DG fleet staging point is gonna be a lot harder I imagine with the torpedo, all participating ships need to be able to take a hit from it?
Null sec miners are indeed going to have to find a new way to deal with the threat of belt rats. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 15:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tanaka Aiko wrote:is the long term goal having less redboxes but more powerfull ships like incursions and sleepers ?
I would really like that, it's a pain killing all these little things who loot nothing and have no chance killing us, and I don't even talk about thinking of salvaging these...
When you kill a sleeper frigate you don't have the impression of losing your time, cause this thing hurt, have lots of scamble, neut or web so it's real dangerous, but it does also loot not bad. a nullsec frigate however... it may scramble and need to be killed quickly in this case, but you two shot it, and it loot nothing. so you only have the impression of losing your time.
Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 15:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:You and Fozzie keep your streak of awesome changes for the winter patch. /highfive
/highfive back! Winter should be a damn good time! Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 15:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Adan Natrier wrote:In principle, I'm all for making pve in eve not be basically awful, and this is a (tiny) step in the right direction that's quite encouraging. But - Quote: Q) Will NPC's kill my drones? A) Yes, but they don't hate them nearly as much as sleepers. I ran 9 level 4 missions and lost 2 drones. It does mean you need to pay more attention though. We can adjust their hatred of drones though which is why we are asking for feedback when this hits a test server.
I hope you're prepared to find out the primary motivation in flying drone ships for a lot of people is to be doing missions while afk, like they were bots. Are CCP prepared to make improvements to the game over objections from people like this now, or will you cave after 'feedback'? Because I could probably say a few things about barges.
You will notice a while ago we posted that sitting AFK in a PLEX 24/7 is considered an exploit. So I think that should answer that. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 15:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Taking a break from answering questions to participate in this event on Duality: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155467 I highly recommend you all come join us! I will be back after that to answer more questions. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
581
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 18:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Crazy idea I know. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
594
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 20:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Melina Lin wrote:We need a better seeded market on Duality, if we are supposed to test this.
I know. Right now it is setup for testing the frigates and destroyers so most of the stuff is not seeded. :( Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
594
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 20:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:I like where this is going... it might even get to the point where one might consider killing a few red boxes once in a while sooooo... was thinking, when you decrease the number of red boxes eventually... could the amount of sec status gained for killing a strong single red box battleship be increased a lot?
When we eventually get there then yes I hope so. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
606
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 22:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gisander wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Tanaka Aiko wrote:is the long term goal having less redboxes but more powerfull ships like incursions and sleepers ?
I would really like that, it's a pain killing all these little things who loot nothing and have no chance killing us, and I don't even talk about thinking of salvaging these...
When you kill a sleeper frigate you don't have the impression of losing your time, cause this thing hurt, have lots of scamble, neut or web so it's real dangerous, but it does also loot not bad. a nullsec frigate however... it may scramble and need to be killed quickly in this case, but you two shot it, and it loot nothing. so you only have the impression of losing your time. Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them. Actual Feedback:You are my new favourite CCP Employee for saying that. I don't care that you do it in small steps. I don't care that some people now actually need to pay attention during combat. This rocks. I tried a few missions and this is a step in the right direction. Random Future dreams:I want to see NPC's warp away when they are damaged, forcing you to tackle them. I want to see NPC's switch laser crystals when they can't reach their optimals because you are faster. I want to see NPC's that can actually see that they are losing, and brake off the fight all together after a while (unless they are defending something worth dying over). I would love to see the navy's actually send out NPC fleets that use the actual gates to patrol the FW systems and eventually run into an enemy NPC fleet... or even get up in Sansha's face... or NPC pirate fleets that force structures into reinforced mode, warp off, and return later to actually finish the job... unless the players defend of course. But I also want to see NPC's (rarely, and randomly) make mistakes, or try daring things, they should be able to surprise you once in a while. Ah, and randomised NPC and environment setups every time you run a mission would certainly spice up the re-playability of missions (and stop people from looking up every mission beforehand). On account of power. NPC's that share the same hulls with players should only be slightly less powerful than the capsuleers (on the same page as a player that has skills trained to 3 or something like that). A T1 capsuleer cruiser should not be able to handle tanking 5 NPC t1 cruisers simultaneously. Lastly I would love to see (rare) NPC's in non-combat roles. Like Mining NPC's that warp to a belt, mine, and warp back to the station to actually sell their ore. Or transport NPC's that take actual transport contracts and physically move the goods trough high-sec. Or maybe even trading NPC's that bring stuff from places where there is a surplus to places where there is scarcity. NPC's should represent all the "non-capsuleer piloted ships", but at the moment they don't really do that. *Sigh* all future dreams... but I love the fact that the first steps towards this have been taken.
Man, we share so much of the same dream. If your mission is to go kill a specific person and he is losing, he should indeed try to warp away and you should have to try and keep him on the field. If he gets away, well something.
All of that is really good ideas and I can tell you we do think alike.
Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
612
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 22:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Denidil wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Tanaka Aiko wrote:is the long term goal having less redboxes but more powerfull ships like incursions and sleepers ?
I would really like that, it's a pain killing all these little things who loot nothing and have no chance killing us, and I don't even talk about thinking of salvaging these...
When you kill a sleeper frigate you don't have the impression of losing your time, cause this thing hurt, have lots of scamble, neut or web so it's real dangerous, but it does also loot not bad. a nullsec frigate however... it may scramble and need to be killed quickly in this case, but you two shot it, and it loot nothing. so you only have the impression of losing your time. Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them. will NPC damage be adjusted - both spectrum (all rats going full spectrum) and amount? active tanks in pvp = sure death for most ships.
Each step we take will require balance. If we make an adjustment like lowering the number of NPC because we give them some new ability, we will also look at their damage. So yes we will, but in this case we have not as we have not seen it to be needed. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
637
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 11:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:......
Each step we take will require balance. If we make an adjustment like lowering the number of NPC because we give them some new ability, we will also look at their damage. So yes we will, but in this case we have not as we have not seen it to be needed. There are things this change does that is not balanced. It makes drone boats less useful. It hurts fleets. vs. The solo pilot using turrets or missiles is unaffected. To balance out the effect on drone boats and fleets by reducing the difficulty of the NPCs just makes it easier for the solo pilot using turrets or missiles. The unbalance remains. Maybe you should talk to others about a small buff to drones and fleets. I suggested: When drones are set to aggressive, they aggro on enemy ships shooting you when launched without having to wait for a new enemy to shoot you. My drones and my fleet mates be designated "cooperative targets". This means I can get a target lock on them much faster than normal. This would help with remote reps.
So far in our testing this change has not hurt either of those two groups.
Drone users: I flew a Dominix into Angel Extravaganza, I began with taking aggro, then I launched light drones to kill off the frigates. While my light drones were out the frigates switched their fire to them, but I dispatched them quickly enough that it was of no concern. Then I switched to heavies and moved on. The whole mission maybe took me a few minutes longer, but based on how long the overall mission took it was not that much of a change. I didn't lose a drone through out it either. So if our "nerf" to drone users is that they have to pay more attention to the game and interact with it, well we can live with that.
Fleets: I ran a mission dual boxing a logi ship and a DPS ship. My DPS ship carried some logi drones, and my logi ship carried DPS drones. I had to pay some more attention to what was going on, but my logi ship had enough buffer to survive every encounter when paired with a few logi drones. The nice thing is that because the logi ship did not need to run its reps the whole mission, as my DPS ship was not always the target, I could change the fit to be less cap stable and add more buffer/resistance.
Both of these groups will have to change and adapt to the new gameplay, but so long as they put a bit of effort into they can more than easily come up with a new plan that works just as well. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
639
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 12:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:I just hope you're keeping in contact with the ship redesign team. If people are going to need to fit TE/TC/TD and web/scrams to their pve ships too, as well as need a bigger drone bay to replace drones killed in action, that team needs to be aware.
The guys doing ship balancing sit right behind me, are in most of the meetings, and are fully aware of what we are doing. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
660
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 17:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote: I don't think the L4 missions are the biggest concerns.
You need to really look at the L5's and 6/10s-10/10s DED Complexes.
Those are where things go above and beyond the normal range of DPS/EWAR and so on. There are some ridiculous structures in those sites that need looking into. I'll try and get on the server this weekend.
I would agree with you on this. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
662
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 18:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gary Bell wrote:Gary Bell wrote:My BIGGEST question is how is this going to affect the aggro in complexes like the maze? I understand what you are trying to do but this is really going to hurt complex runners. It takes a very specific ship to run the maze and be able to tank so I mean where does this leave us?
When I bring in my tank ship to grab aggro from your stupidly overpowered Citidel torp that can only be tanked by like 4 ships in game total and I going to have to worry about all the webbers switching to my Mach and popping it in one volley?
If that is the plan then I give this a thumbs down..
I think you guys really need to look into the 10 of 10s specifically because this is really going to hurt that type of PVE content..
SO can I expect to see an answer to this? Cuz i think this is going to be one of your biggest issues? If you have to fly three 4 Bil is t3s to complete the maze cuz the citidel torp changes aggro, or if I am going to have logi getting insta popped because all the web and scram frigs swap to my logi and alpha it? This really needs to be looked at and answered?
Admittedly I have not played The Maze since making these changes. I do however have a list of 10/10's to test and this is on it. I hope to test them sometime next week. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
677
|
Posted - 2012.09.22 22:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
DrakenDD wrote:Well i did a bit of testing today with Anomalies, with ishtar and sentry drones and everything was fine as far I could see.
Now tried same with Carrier, and well experiencewas not fun.
2 our 3 tries all NPC swapped targets to fighters as soon as I launched. I tried same with Sentry and same happened, and at one point had to keep recalling my drones upto 5 times after each launching them because all npc switch targets.
Brought in Tengu with carrier on field, and all npc swap over to that on warp in, drop drones and well npc went back.
Left Tengu on field, dock carrier and then warp in a Ishtar, and all NPC swap targets to Isthar. Drones drones on ishtar, and all 75% of npc swaped to Drones.
Conclusion: single ishtar with sentry in anomaly seem fine single Carrier with sentry or fighter, pain pain pain, to point of not playable, unpredictable. multiple ishtar seem ok, but i didnt get to much time for test. Don't ask what two carriers was like, felt i was playing pingball.
This is good to know. I have on my plate testing the higher end plexes with a carrier this week. I will look into what exactly makes the NPC hate fighters so much more than drones, and drones in general when you are in a carrier. Shall attempt to get back to you ASAP.
Thank you very much for the feedback. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
689
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 19:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drotes wrote: You know this is so sad .... ccp is becoming a joke at the very least ..... my reasons for believing this is because things i have seen them do, the way they are trying bring new stuff to the table but will not use there heads to think things through, and a few other things i see coming that need to be discussed elsewhere.
My experience as i log onto the test server was WTF!!!! .... first i have not used a drone ship for awhile so i don't have one setup. Figuring i could just look on the market really fast and get what i need to get something going just to see only frigates and a few destroyers. I am now at this point wondering why i should even bother but i don't like to give up easily. I grab a ship i have that has a flight of drones and set out to try something out. Warping to the first gate i find that i can not get through the gate took like 6 tries before i was able to get through. At second gate as i landed at 0km concord immediately webbed, scrammed, and locked me out of the gate. Needless to say that ship died, as did the next 2 i tried.
My experience on the test server was really bad as ccp has failed to create a environment for us to properly test the changes. Mark my words this is just going to end up being another inventory fail.
The Duality test server has been put specifically in it's current state so that we can encourage players to test the new frigate and destroyer changes that are coming.
We are still working out a specific time frame but Duality will be coming back with a fully seeded market so that players can test these changes. It is still only September, we have plenty of time to test these changes. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
690
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 20:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Savira Terrant wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Drotes wrote: You know this is so sad .... ccp is becoming a joke at the very least ..... my reasons for believing this is because things i have seen them do, the way they are trying bring new stuff to the table but will not use there heads to think things through, and a few other things i see coming that need to be discussed elsewhere.
My experience as i log onto the test server was WTF!!!! .... first i have not used a drone ship for awhile so i don't have one setup. Figuring i could just look on the market really fast and get what i need to get something going just to see only frigates and a few destroyers. I am now at this point wondering why i should even bother but i don't like to give up easily. I grab a ship i have that has a flight of drones and set out to try something out. Warping to the first gate i find that i can not get through the gate took like 6 tries before i was able to get through. At second gate as i landed at 0km concord immediately webbed, scrammed, and locked me out of the gate. Needless to say that ship died, as did the next 2 i tried.
My experience on the test server was really bad as ccp has failed to create a environment for us to properly test the changes. Mark my words this is just going to end up being another inventory fail. The Duality test server has been put specifically in it's current state so that we can encourage players to test the new frigate and destroyer changes that are coming. We are still working out a specific time frame but Duality will be coming back with a fully seeded market so that players can test these changes. It is still only September, we have plenty of time to test these changes. Dear CCP (Fox Four), please do not feel discouraged by such comments. I am very pleased to see you replied to it in a calm 'voice' explaining once again, that winter (expansion) is not tomorrow and that one cannot expect a testserver to run smoothly of the bat - especially since it even is only a substitute for the regular testserver made public just recently. Keep up the good work! Regards, Savira Terrant P.S.: Also can't wait for winter! Please go and treat Ullr some free PLEX to bribe him to make it winter now! (As in for the rest of the northern hemisphere and not just Iceland.) ;P
It isn't even really winter here in Iceland yet. No snow, temperature is still above zero, and I still see daylight. You are just going to have to wait. Unlike me, I get to see everything going into the expansion. And play with it. YAY! :P Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
694
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 11:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:@CCP FoxFour I have tested Dominix with mobile drones in some null anoms and all seems to be ok but I wanted to test some lowsec complexes as they might be problematic for drone boats ( it's mostly about DED5s and Annexes ). After nearly 2 hours I finally found said complexes using scanning alt but..... Unfortunately my only Ishtar has been ganked by your killer police. Technically.....it's your fault As there is no fully functional market on duality yet. Is there a possibility of spawning this ship in my assets so I can do some testing in those complexes ( using domi is pointless because no one uses BSs in low and aggro is dependant on signature )? Hey! You owe me a replacement dammit.
I really do apologize for this. You took time to try and test this and were unable to. I am currently working to get Duality back to a fully seeded state without broken police. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
694
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 12:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:@CCP FoxFour I have tested Dominix with mobile drones in some null anoms and all seems to be ok but I wanted to test some lowsec complexes as they might be problematic for drone boats ( it's mostly about DED5s and Annexes ). After nearly 2 hours I finally found said complexes using scanning alt but..... Unfortunately my only Ishtar has been ganked by your killer police. Technically.....it's your fault As there is no fully functional market on duality yet. Is there a possibility of spawning this ship in my assets so I can do some testing in those complexes ( using domi is pointless because no one uses BSs in low and aggro is dependant on signature )? Hey! You owe me a replacement dammit. I really do apologize for this. You took time to try and test this and were unable to. I am currently working to get Duality back to a fully seeded state without broken police. Duality now says it's closed and to use Buckingham. Does that mean the code has moved to Buckingham, or Duality is just down for the fix? It'd be really helpful if someone could perhaps keep the players a bit in the loop of what's going on where. 3 test servers each running different versions of the game w/ different changes is hard to keep track of.
Duality is just down for now. Buckingham is running some other code, not sure what exactly to tell you the truth. I am working to get Duality back up for this weekend.
Trust me the different public test servers is kind of a new thing for us internally as well and keeping track of it is a pain. :/
Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
697
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 14:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Drotes wrote:You will get it , just let us know when it is ready and we will be more than willing to test this. This can be a massive game change as it will affect ships, tactics, and the way the game is played in groups. Lets just slow down a little and get it right and then we all can have fun.
I would also like to apologize for my original post, I was very upset and should never have posted at that time.
Not a problem. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
700
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 14:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
So more information to come soon but it sounds like we will have Duality back up this weekend for testing. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
716
|
Posted - 2012.09.28 13:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:CCP FoxFour-- I notice you haven't responded to people's questions regarding player ships attacking ratters in sites. Will the NPCs aggro the attacking player?
If this is the case it will need to be changed, seeing as the types of ship that are typically capable of getting a tackle on a ratter (covops, bombers, interdictors, inties, etc) are generally extremely fragile and will not be able to deal with incoming dps from both the rats and the ratter. It's already extremely difficult to grab ratters before they can warp out to a safe location, please don't make it even harder.
The balance on this issue is something we are discussing internally and still play testing. I have not responded because we are still not 100% sure if we want to change anything and if so what. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
774
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 12:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hey guys,
This weekend Duality will be coming back online with a focus of testing the new NPC changes. I will personally be online for as much of it as possible, especially during the day on Monday to help people with the testing, to do the testing myself, and to get your feedback.
- Duality will be online starting Friday October 19th.
- It should be online by 13:00, although to be honest I hope to see it online a lot sooner.
- Duality will remain online until the morning of Tuesday October 23rd.
- If you are going to be on Duality join the channel Duality. I will be in that channel offering any support I can for people testing, answering questions, and testing myself. If you need to be moved I will be happy to help you from that channel while I am online.
Unfortunetly I will actually be out of the office on Friday during the day though. :(
To connect to Duality:
Quote:To access Duality copy your main Eve install to a different folder. Then create a shortcut to that folder's launcher (eve.exe). Right click on that shortcut on the desktop, go into "Properties" and in the "Target" field put a space after the last entry in the field and type /server:87.237.38.60 to force the launcher to point towards Duality. Once you run that shortcut the launcher will download the most recent patch for Duality and get you ready to connect.
On top of this we would like to run a mass test on Monday, October 22nd, at 14:00 EVE time. During this time we would like to test the performance impact of the new AI having been applied to everything. To do this properly we will need as many people as possible running missions in one of the following systems:
- Motsu
- Dodixie
- Ordion
- Emolgranlan
MASS TEST! Those who complete a minimum of 10 missions in one of those four systems between the hours of 14:00 and 18:00 on Monday October 22nd will receive 2 million SP on both Buckingham and Duality. Both CCP Bettik, myself, and other members of team Five 0 will be online during this time. Again, please join the Duality chat channel during this mass test and we will do whatever we can to help assist you in testing missions.
CCP FoxFour Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
774
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 13:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:any chance we can get more sites to spawn ? especially mazes and Fleet Staging Points
While I am online that is one of the things I will be doing; spawning sites that is. I am going to purposely try and be on as much as possible to do this, but again I will be out of the office on Friday. Bad timing I know, but I wanted the test server up as soon as possible. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
775
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 14:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
Harraria wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:
Those who complete a minimum of 10 missions in one of those four systems between the hours of 14:00 and 18:00 on Monday October 22nd will receive 2 million SP on both Buckingham and Duality.
What if we run missions cooperatively or with alts? Will 10 missions between 2 or more characters still award all those characters SP?
Passing your question along to the engineer who will be doing the tracking. Hope to get you an answer soon. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
835
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 14:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Harraria wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:
Those who complete a minimum of 10 missions in one of those four systems between the hours of 14:00 and 18:00 on Monday October 22nd will receive 2 million SP on both Buckingham and Duality.
What if we run missions cooperatively or with alts? Will 10 missions between 2 or more characters still award all those characters SP? We're not going to make this massively complicated I'm afraid. For each mission, only the character that actually owns the mission will get a "mission point". A character must get 10 "mission points" himself. I won't be merging points across multiple characters. "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
785
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 23:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:It is pointless to give examples of how disastrous these changes are for drone operators. Goliath and I tangled in one of the other threads and he stated that he is not interested in how difficult this makes missions, or impossible, but only if the actual mechanic is working. He stated that if the AI works in one mission, it will work in all missions, and that is all he cares about finding out with this test. The only way he, Fox Four, and the other null sec zealots will scale back the devastation this does to high sec income will be when this mechanism hits Tranquility, and the posts start flying in the forums. Even then, it won't matter until sub rate drops can be directly attributed to this attack. And given all the other changes going on, plus the addition of Dust, it won't be possible for months to sort out how many players quit over this destruction of high sec PvE. Further, why do you think no one has posted with any stats since Diagoras got fired or quit? If there is no information provided on high sec income (Diagoras used to give precise info), then all CCP has to say is "nope, people are happy with the changes, since high sec income has shown no dropoff", and there is no way to refute it. I am grinding as much ISK as I can now, using my Ishtar, and will be moving to a gunboat BS after Dec 4th. Drones as a PvE platform are dead after Dec 4th. Edit: adding the link where Goliath states he does not care if the new AI wipes out drone based PvE, for the purposes of this test window. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2063384#post2063384
Have you tried it yet?
Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
787
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 12:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
I will be responding to feedback later today, but for now I need to let everyone know that today's mass test has been cancelled.
We have cancelled today's mass test due to performance issues in the current build.
We will be scheduling it again ASAP, stay tuned.
You can still test and provide feedback, but the mass test will not be happening. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
788
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 19:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Well I did not get as much testing done as I wanted, But I did get on as much as I could.
LVL 4 missions seem fine. They are slightly more challenging but were way to easy before. So no issues there.
LVL 5 missions I ran 4 of them. Lost my logi 3 times. The amount of DPS that switched to the logi was insane. considering it is all NPC's that can actually hit it. Droping two shield reps and going with a more tanky fit on the logistics, and throwing some logi drones on another ship to rep the logi was not enough. Switching out all my drones on the other 3 ships was enough to keep the logi alive, but droped my DPS so much that it was almost impossible to finish the mission. It may be possible to complete them with 3-4 ships using a different strategy but based on my initial testing this change has made lvl 5 missions almost impossible for a reasonable small gang of 3-4 ships to complete. The same set up that could complete them easy before.
I did not test 6/10-8/10 plexes but did try to run a 9/10. It was a disaster. I used to run them with a heavy tanked BS with about 500 DPS, a DPS BS doing over 1200 DPS with a weak tank, a Smaller DPS ship to help clear frigates and cruisers(either a HAC or T3) with a balanced fit doing about 650 dps, and a logi orbitng the main tank. This was done mutiboxing 4 accounts.
between dropping some drones for logi drones to keep the logistics alive, and droping DPS on both DPS ships to give them enough tank, my DPS ended up being to low to complete the plex. I managed to stay alive but was not able to finish the plex in 3 hours.
It would seem to do the same small gang stuff I previously did with 4 accounts I will now need probably 6 accounts for. I will not be subbing two more accounts. If anything I will drop two accounts as the only reason I have 4 accounts is for muti boxing a small gang. I also use these 4 accounts for mining but have been doing this less and less in favor of less boring game activities. The changes to mining ships have made mining easier, but also more boring. It is almost to safe now. So if I can not run level 5 missions, and higher end plexes mutiboxing my 4 accounts then there is no point in having 4 accounts.
One other question for CCP FOXFOUR; When you run this content for your internal testing do you use a god mode dev character with all skills at lvl 5? If so to get a acurate feel of what most PVE players are facing you should be running them with a character with not more than 20 mil SP. I would guess the BULK of the PVE player base is in the 15-30 mil SP bracket. Most players with more than 30 mil SP have moved on from PVE. The difficulty of a mission is drastically different from 20 mil skill points to over 40 mil which is what my two main combat toons are at. I can only assume it gets even easier with over 100 mil SP as I still have much left to train on my 40 mil SP pilots.
Also keep in mind that a very large potion of the community is not active on the forums, and do not read developer blogs. They will be blindsided by this change.
May I ask what level 5 missions you ran?
I vary between 2 accounts. One that is all maxed out with all level 5 skills and one that I apply the needed skills to as I go and delete every so often. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
788
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 20:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
zer0t wrote:
As a heavy drone boat user, i hate these changes. They will make a drone users life harder without any benefits but he is right, from a developers point of view. He and FoxFour are the one who implement the Drone AI and all they have to care about is if their AI works or not. So i dont understand your hatred against them. It probably wasn't their decision to implement these changes. The decision probably was made from a game design team and i have no idea who' s responsible there. Maybe we should hear something from them how these changes suppose to influent Drone Boat users.
This was the decision of the content team, of which I am part of. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
788
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 20:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Well, glad to see at least one other person has done some testing recently.
I am still grinding ISK on TQ for my plex. Actually swapped for fun to my Drone Proteus, since that boat will be obsolete in 6 weeks.
It is kind of fun watching my Ogres whiz around at 1700 plus m/s. After New England destroys New Jersey Jets, I will probably get back online to test out a Mach and maybe this Proteus fit.
But fundamentally, if I can't get the AI to target my heavies, any testing has zero value.
As for CCP delaying this, forget it. They have a long long track record of deploying broken code, over the screams of protests of testers (UI anyone?), and then using TQ as a testbed.
That is what is happening with the drone decimation. Goliath has stated he has zero interest in knowing if this AI is "fair to drone users", and only wants this test window to show any bugs in the code. Fox Four, who actually built the AI, and should have the most invested in this, is persona non grata.
Taking it to the extreme, this could be the equivalent to CCP saying, "we are increasing all rats' EHP 10 fold, and increasing thier DPS 10 fold. But for for the purposes of testing, we ONLY want to see if there are any bugs in the new code. We really don't care if it makes most missions and plexes unplayable. We will release the bug-free code onto TQ, then deal with the fallout from the players, and scale back the impact , when there is enough screaming."
Oh, and one last thing. There is no way I can dig up the posts, but I have seen one interview from one dev, and read the post of another dev, and they both HATE drones, and wished CCP had never introduced the weapon system. That may give you some indication of why this is happening.
Sorry if you have felt we don't want your feedback. I can't speak for Goliath, but this thread is mine and this change is mine and I want all the feedback you guys have to offer.
I can't comment on what other devs have said about their opinions of drones and what not, but neither I or CCP Bettik (Betikk? Crap can't remember. /derp ) who are doing this change hate drones.
Other then that I don't see anything from your post that is feedback to this change so not sure what else to say. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
788
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 20:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
Adigard wrote:Mund Richard wrote:With drones, you accept that T2 ones cost half a mill a pop, but now you run the risk of them going pop. Increased risk of going them pop, and a higher chance of not getting back your investment (not to mention that non-drone ships may not have the luxury of being able to carry a second flight! - most of us posting here use drone boats with 3-6 flights, but there are ships with 125/125 or 50/50, these changes affect them just as bad, only differently). But any interface that would help to maintain drones in PvE, would make them harder to use in PvP, thus upsetting "balance", and that would be bad. I expect non-drone boat drone user's will just have to accept the fact that their drones will be lost. If CCP implements the current "Sacrifice a single T1 light drone to buy drone safety for the rest of the mission" then all boats with more than 25m3 of drone room will start carrying that single T1 drone. Rengerel en Distel wrote: You can't compare drones to ammo, they compare more to weapons. So it would be like if 7 frigates swarming around you suddenly all targeted your turret and destroyed it before you could do anything. Now you're down a gun, and the only thing you can do is go dock up and replace it, or take the dps hit for the remainder of the encounter. Some indication that a drone is being targeted doesn't upset any pve/pvp balance, as it's something that should have been included with drones on day 1. If they really do plan on a drone UI upgrade, it should simply come before this change goes live. If the AI change has to wait for the spring expansion, but it's really polished, I don't think anyone is going to mind.
I seriously doubt CCP will delay unleashing the AI on us for... well... much of anything. Conversely I expect in 18 months when tiericide finally hits BS's and faction BS's will all have more drone bay space than we'll know what to do with. Of course, again, it's the time between now and then that's likely to cause some pain.
tiericide? Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
789
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 20:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I have had time to create this post in the time I have had to wait for Duality to strip a shield hardener off a mid slot. Then I figured out that, the "Unfit" button in the ship fitting window does not work. I can "manually" drag it to inventory, but that is the only way.
The "fit to active ship" mechanism works.
You know CCP, if Fox Four was actually refitting ships to run different missions, that "unfit" mechanism not working would have been flagged REALLY fast. So what was Fox Four running all these missions in, if Fox Four did not pick up on this mechanism being broken?
And where is Fox Four. I realize this is a weekend, and Fox Four may be hung over after the CCP party last night, but given there are less than 3 days left in this test window, and if this AI is so important to CCP's future plans, I would expect the dev responsible for it to be around.
If not, why open up Duality in a time frame where 3 of the 4 days the dev responsible is not around?
Things like the the unfit can be broken and fixed in a matter of hours. I didn't even notice it at all as by the time I got back into the studio it was already fixed.
As for where I was over the weekend I was on the test server helping people and focused on that. I asked everyone I saw to post their feedback here so that today I could go through it all, collect it, and arrange a meeting with the others involved once I had it all together.
I know some people would like me responding to feedback through out the day but most of the feedback I can't say much to except that I have read it. After that I need to collect as much information as I can and talk to others at the office about it. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
789
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 20:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:It appears that any testing of the AI is utterly broken since I can't get the AI to shoot my Heavy Drones.
I have run 5 missions, and in all cases, against Merc, Rogue Drones, and Sanshas, my Heavies have suffered no damage. My Lights are getting insta-popped, and my Sentries take almost immediate damage, so I know the AI is functioning to some extent.
And before the fanbois start spouting off about "RNG", consider those 5 missions equates to several hours of heavy drones out in the rats' faces game, and over who knows how many AI decision cycles, the Heavies appear to be never even targeted.
And just now, I grabbed all the aggro for Sansha Recon level 4, room 1, then started speed-tanking in an Ishtar, let go my Ogres, and GASP!!!!!......for all intents and purposed went AFK!!!!
If you want people to spend time testing new game mechanics, how about ensuring they actually work. This is not some trivial issue, but a fundamental part of the AI.
You release new code to Duality on a Friday (late I might add), then have the dev's all take Friday off for a corporate event, then have CCP Goliath infer that the devs are pretty hungover on Saturday, so not many around on the Saturday. Now we are looking at Sunday, maybe Monday, before any responses from the dev's responsible for coding this mess.
CCP, if you want to show some professionalism, why not introduce the code on a Monday or Tuesday, when the dev's are available, and not hung over?
I am done wasting time with this test until I get some answers from a dev on what is going on.
I tested this as well and agree there appears to be something wrong with them targeting heavies. Which is really odd because early last week I lost an Ogre II. Shall dig into it and see if I can figure out what the hell is going on ASAP. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
789
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 20:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
So after the reading the feedback there are a few immediate things I am going to look into:
1) First and foremost this heavies not taking aggro while flying an Ishtar. They take aggro while flying a carrier. So that needs to be looked into. 2) Elite cruisers and frigates. 3) The ability to release drones, have NPC target switch, and recall the drones immediately, and just leave the NPC in a state of not really shooting anything. 4) Salvage drones doing ewar effects and causing NPC to swtich. Again, a cheap way to keep the NPC from ever shooting anything.
If anyone has any questions let me know. Still here. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
791
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 21:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Melina Lin wrote:In closing I'd like to point out that the drone control interface needs work, because it's bad.
As someone who uses drones on a daily basis... dear god yes. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
791
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 21:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Did the drones droping group bug get fixed?
I believe so but I will double check on it first thing tomorrow morning. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
792
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 23:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
Adigard wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:tiericide? Ship balancing?
Game of Drones? Oh, the death of tiers and movement towards roles. Sorry. I didn't get that. /derp Sorry. I get it now. My brain went to trying thinking that was supposed to be a team name. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
801
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 18:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
There have been numerous questions about what, if anything, we are going to do about how this change will effect certain gameplay styles outside of running missions or ratting. Things like hunting ratters, ninja salvaging, and playing content with your new friends.
For the most part our stance is that we believe you will adapt and find a way to do it. In some cases this may mean increasing the barrier to entry, but we have already seen players coming up with new ways to do the same stuff.
We do have a concern about the ability for experienced players to bring new players along with them on content. We are also looking into this. What effect any changes we make here have on those other forms of gameplay is not entirely certain yet.
One of the things we are looking at is increasing how much threat you need to generate before the NPC switch. The specific case we want to look at solving is as I said an experienced player in a Tengu bringing a new player in a Rifter along. If that new player is doing very little damage we don't want all 15 frigates to suddenly decide he needs to die.
If what ever change we make to help mitigate that effects the other gameplay styles as well, then so be it. Our stance however is that those that want to will find a way to continue doing those other activities. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
835
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 23:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
I owe you guys a bit of an apology. I made the following post without much of an explanation as to why this was the path we were taking.
Quote:There have been numerous questions about what, if anything, we are going to do about how this change will effect certain gameplay styles outside of running missions or ratting. Things like hunting ratters, ninja salvaging, and playing content with your new friends.
For the most part our stance is that we believe you will adapt and find a way to do it. In some cases this may mean increasing the barrier to entry, but we have already seen players coming up with new ways to do the same stuff.
We do have a concern about the ability for experienced players to bring new players along with them on content. We are also looking into this. What effect any changes we make here have on those other forms of gameplay is not entirely certain yet.
One of the things we are looking at is increasing how much threat you need to generate before the NPC switch. The specific case we want to look at solving is as I said an experienced player in a Tengu bringing a new player in a Rifter along. If that new player is doing very little damage we don't want all 15 frigates to suddenly decide he needs to die.
If what ever change we make to help mitigate that effects the other gameplay styles as well, then so be it. Our stance however is that those that want to will find a way to continue doing those other activities.
The biggest question is why are we making changes to help new players play with older players (Tengu and Rifer from the example quoted) when there are probably, actually I know there are, more new players ninja salvaging.
For us EVE is a sandbox and as much as possible we should not be telling players what they can and cannot do. The best things that come from EVE are the emergent stories and gameplay. Things like ninja salvaging are not things we ever sat down and said "hey, lets make this cool new feature called ninja salvaging!" Ninja salvaging is not something we design specifically for or against.
So why are we designing specifically for the Tengu Rifter scenario? Well we aren't, not specifically. One of our design principles though is that we should as much as possible not tell our players they can't play with their friends. This is an MMO and social is a big aspect of that. We want to make sure as much as possible people can play with their friends.
On another topic the test server Duality will be open again this weekend. There have not really been any changes except stability and performance. So the NPC not shooting Ogres thing is still around.
We will be having a mass test on Monday, another post to follow.
I also want to say that I have been talking with the original designers of the level one AI and apparently shooting players or using EWAR on them should not generate threat towards the NPC. Heck using assistive modules like remote repair directly on an NPC is not supposed to generate threat. So I need to look into that and see what is going on. No promises here, I am not a programmer. I will however be trying to figure out what is going on and if it is not working as designed figure out what needs to change. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
837
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 12:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
Adigard wrote:Since FoxFour is already working on other things? I doubt there will be much iteration here.
I spent this morning breaking down how the AI actually works and the exact forumulas for how they calculate threat, comparing that to what the design said it should be, compared to what you guys and the rest of the players are saying they actually do, and then coming up with a list of things that need to be done. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
847
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 16:06:00 -
[48] - Quote
Hey guys,
Duality is back online. I will personally be online for as much of it as possible, especially during the day on Monday to help people with the testing, to do the testing myself, and to get your feedback.
- Duality is online now!
- Duality will remain online until the morning of Tuesday October 23rd.
- If you are going to be on Duality join the channel Duality. I will be in that channel offering any support I can for people testing, answering questions, and testing myself. If you need to be moved I will be happy to help you from that channel while I am online.
MASS TEST! On top of this we would like to run a mass test on Monday, October 29th, at 14:00 EVE time. During this time we would like to test the performance impact of the new AI having been applied to everything. To do this properly we will need as many people as possible running missions in one of the following systems:
- Motsu
- Dodixie
- Ordion
- Emolgranlan
Those who complete a minimum of 10 missions in one of those four systems between the hours of 14:00 and 18:00 on Monday October 29th will receive 2 million SP on both Buckingham and Duality. Both CCP Bettik, myself, and other members of team Five 0 will be online during this time. Again, please join the Duality chat channel during this mass test and we will do whatever we can to help assist you in testing missions.
CCP FoxFour Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
847
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 16:24:00 -
[49] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:
Duality will remain online until the morning of Tuesday October 23rd. CCP FoxFour CCP has perfected time travel? Or do you mean October 30th?
Can't just let my typos go can you guys. Always gotta point out my flaws. :'(
Fixed it though. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
847
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 16:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:MASS TEST!On top of this we would like to run a mass test on Monday, October 29th, at 14:00 EVE time. During this time we would like to test the performance impact of the new AI having been applied to everything. To do this properly we will need as many people as possible running missions in one of the following systems:
- Motsu
- Dodixie
- Ordion
- Emolgranlan
Those who complete a minimum of 10 missions in one of those four systems between the hours of 14:00 and 18:00 on Monday October 29th will receive 2 million SP on both Buckingham and Duality. Both CCP Bettik, myself, and other members of team Five 0 will be online during this time. Again, please join the Duality chat channel during this mass test and we will do whatever we can to help assist you in testing missions. CCP FoxFour 10 missions in 4 hours????? Clearly, you have never picked up an Extravaganza mission followed by a WC mission. Some missions take way over an hour to do, and you expect people to run 10 missions in 240 minutes?
Crap, it was supposed to be 5. Wow that post was full of a bit of fail. Updated. :( Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
849
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 11:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
Adigard wrote:elflorien wrote:are we allowed to fleet up and do the missions for the mass test? or do we have to do five missions each? CCP will only give credit to whoever takes / completes the mission. So.. sorta!
This man is correct. Credit goes to whoever turns the mission in. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
849
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 11:19:00 -
[52] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I have already posted yet another idiotic bug I found: The TD effect does not show up, so I have no idea which ships are TD'ing me.
Did you bug report this?
More importantly does the effect not show up on the effects bar just above your HUD? You can right click on that and see a list of who is doing the effect on you. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
849
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 13:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I have already posted yet another idiotic bug I found: The TD effect does not show up, so I have no idea which ships are TD'ing me. Did you bug report this? More importantly does the effect not show up on the effects bar just above your HUD? You can right click on that and see a list of who is doing the effect on you. Yes, I created a bug report. And no, I am not an idiot, contrary to the opinion of many. When I was webbed. the effect showed up on the overview and also in that effects bar. TD did neither. Clearly, you guys did not do a lot of internal testing before releasing this code. Further, unless this issue is unique to those missions, no else has complained about that in this thread. That leads me to believe very few people are actually testing this code. I can only imagine the carnage we are going to see Dec 5th when all the bugs not picked up become known to the masses on TQ.
I have now tested and confirmed this my self. Can I get your bug report number? Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
849
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 13:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
redsleeper wrote:I wonder, must be in Motsu or can be any npc and any place for mission ? Since some mission runner don't have access certain corp. agent lv 4 belong area of Motsu but work on different npc corp. under faction. I plan to do test run to see what up with rats AI.
I can set your standings with specific corporations. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
852
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 13:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
Hey guys, I have been a bit silent here and for that I apologize. An update on where we stand with the AI changes:
- As it stands we are still going ahead with pushing the change to TQ.
- While the change did not make it to the current version on Buckingham I have lowered the drone hate of the AI some more.
- While we consider the fact that the AI will only shoot your first flight of drones (this is based on specific criteria such as sig radius) and not a second wave to be a defect, we are not publishing the fix with Retribution.
- After Retribution we will be making a change to the AI so that they only consider damage being dealt to them as something to increase a targets threat. That way when you warp in to kill someone running an anomaly shooting the player does not make the NPC hate you.
- Also after Retribution, and on the same topic as the previous point, we will be making it so that unless you do something like shoot the NPC or repair a player the NPC won't take your signature radius into account when evaluating targets. Even with the above change without this one frigates would still switch targets.
Now as I am sure many of you are wondering why we have been silent in this thread it is because we found a defect with NPC, nothing to do with the AI, that we decided needed to be fixed. After fixing it and realizing exactly how broken things were we decided to remove the fix until a later date when we can properly balance the content to account for this fix. We have spent the last few weeks attempting to fix the defect, figure out the risk of it, and figure out if we should delay it or the AI changes. In the end we decided to go ahead with the AI and delay the defect fix.
So yea, there is the update. I should hopefully have the lowered drone hate tested enough to put on Buckingham with the next update and will let you know when we do. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
853
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 14:55:00 -
[56] - Quote
Theophilas wrote:Singira wrote:I tested today and gaterats and anomaly rats will instantly switch to anyone using a disruptor or scram on a player, but I can't see how this should be any improvement towards getting rid of botters and afk ratters.. Quite the opposite actually...y NPC's should act as bodyguards for their current nemesis and engage targets that show no agression towards the NPCs? Singira wrote:I tested today and gaterats and anomaly rats will instantly switch to anyone using a disruptor or scram on a player, but I can't see how this should be any improvement towards getting rid of botters and afk ratters.. Quite the opposite actually...y NPC's should act as bodyguards for their current nemesis and engage targets that show no agression towards the NPCs? Singira wrote:I tested today and gaterats and anomaly rats will instantly switch to anyone using a disruptor or scram on a player, but I can't see how this should be any improvement towards getting rid of botters and afk ratters.. Quite the opposite actually...y NPC's should act as bodyguards for their current nemesis and engage targets that show no agression towards the NPCs? Singira wrote:I tested today and gaterats and anomaly rats will instantly switch to anyone using a disruptor or scram on a player, but I can't see how this should be any improvement towards getting rid of botters and afk ratters.. Quite the opposite actually...y NPC's should act as bodyguards for their current nemesis and engage targets that show no agression towards the NPCs? CCP PLZ
All I can really say is this:
Quote:After Retribution we will be making a change to the AI so that they only consider damage being dealt to them as something to increase a targets threat. That way when you warp in to kill someone running an anomaly shooting the player does not make the NPC hate you.
Also after Retribution, and on the same topic as the previous point, we will be making it so that unless you do something like shoot the NPC or repair a player the NPC won't take your signature radius into account when evaluating targets. Even with the above change without this one frigates would still switch targets.
I am pushing for this as soon as possible, but with Crimewatch it will need to wait until after Retribution. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
853
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 14:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
Capqu wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:
As it stands we are still going ahead with pushing the change to TQ.. What a joke. Pushing something you know is broken with the promise of a future update; software development at it's finest. Plus, forgive me if I'm wrong but CCP's track record pretty much guarentees once it's live it's not getting fixed for years. Why are you updating the game with something purely negative, with the intent of fixing it later? Why not just not update the game? I thought you guys were better than this. I guess it's time to realise CCP are just another company that deliberately push patches they know were broken because a deadline arrived. Pretty pathetic.
Because we believe that this change is an improvement. The changes we want to make to the AI after Retribution are changes that will effect Incursion and Sleeper NPC as well. We don't deem them to be defects, just changes for the better. The fact that they also change Sleeper and Incursion AI is why we are waiting until after Retribution.
The thing we consider to be a defect is the switching to drones once and not again which due to the fact that it makes it easier for players to fight NPC made it a lower priority to fix over other defects that affect players negatively, rather than positively. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
855
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 16:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Are you not worried that the npc switch defect will lead to a bit more of an isk faucet in WHs and incursions since you can simply recall then relaunch your drones to make them immune? I realize drone boats aren't the most ideal in either circumstance anyways, but totally safe drone boats might close the gap, while making pvp harder on anyone coming to tackle them.
And this is primarily why we are not so worried about this is because this "defect" is something that has been around since Sleepers were introduced. If you can find the right combination it would happen with Sleepers as well.
So no, not worried about WH's. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
856
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 06:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
ZhaoMin wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys, I have been a bit silent here and for that I apologize. An update on where we stand with the AI changes:
- As it stands we are still going ahead with pushing the change to TQ.
- While the change did not make it to the current version on Buckingham I have lowered the drone hate of the AI some more.
- While we consider the fact that the AI will only shoot your first flight of drones (this is based on specific criteria such as sig radius) and not a second wave to be a defect, we are not publishing the fix with Retribution.
- After Retribution we will be making a change to the AI so that they only consider damage being dealt to them as something to increase a targets threat. That way when you warp in to kill someone running an anomaly shooting the player does not make the NPC hate you.
- Also after Retribution, and on the same topic as the previous point, we will be making it so that unless you do something like shoot the NPC or repair a player the NPC won't take your signature radius into account when evaluating targets. Even with the above change without this one frigates would still switch targets.
Now as I am sure many of you are wondering why we have been silent in this thread it is because we found a defect with NPC, nothing to do with the AI, that we decided needed to be fixed. After fixing it and realizing exactly how broken things were we decided to remove the fix until a later date when we can properly balance the content to account for this fix. We have spent the last few weeks attempting to fix the defect, figure out the risk of it, and figure out if we should delay it or the AI changes. In the end we decided to go ahead with the AI and delay the defect fix. So yea, there is the update. I should hopefully have the lowered drone hate tested enough to put on Buckingham with the next update and will let you know when we do. I must say I'm grateful for your response, while what's been mentioned isn't entirely appealing to a lot of players (brings in a lot of rage already eh?) but trust me, it is better than you staying silent completely on the matter, an update progress like this already helped your fellow players to start preparing and considering of possibilities and alternatives (you see the amount of ppl that hopped on to test server right away to try things out, perhaps without reading too?) Keep this up, like every 3 or 4 days, doesn't even need to be this detailed, it just need to be able to assure the players that you are actively making progress no matter how fast or slow, just don't stop and stay silent.
I will do my best to keep posting. As we continue to ramp up it gets harder and harder but I suppose the fact that we are getting closer to release is even more reason to post. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
915
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 11:51:00 -
[60] - Quote
Singira wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them.
I assume this will mean more scramming NPC's? It will hardly be more like PvP if they do not follow the first rule of PvP..
Actually I think something even better would be making it so that there is a need to scram the NPC and stop them from running. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
915
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 12:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Singira wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them.
I assume this will mean more scramming NPC's? It will hardly be more like PvP if they do not follow the first rule of PvP.. Actually I think something even better would be making it so that there is a need to scram the NPC and stop them from running. I hope you're considering increasing bounties and such to match. The last thing we need is for PVE to become even more of a pain in the ass than it already is.
Yes. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
919
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 17:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
So when are you going to implement this grand experiment? Let me guess, sometime before moon goon mining is addressed, but sometime after BC's and BS's go through Tiericide.
And as others have stated, your concept of "more enjoyable" varies dramatically from many, many players. Do I WANT to go into missions in PvP boat with ANYTHING CLOSE to the risk I have when I did PvP? Errrrrr....no.
Missions are for one thing, and one thing only: making money. No one would do them for any other reason. If people want the PvP experience, THEY WOULD FLIPPING PVP!!!!!! And many people do. They grind the ISK in missions to afford PvP ships.
But CCP, with their infinite wisdom, have decided that PvE is bad, and everyone would be so much happier experiencing the PvP style of play all the time, even if it is against NPC's.
Where does this lead us to? 1. More risk in missions, leading to more boats getting blown up, leading to reduced ISK generation for mission runners. 2. People being forced to fleet up to run harder missions, leading to reduced ISK generation for mission runners.
Why can't you simply state the truth: CCP wants to hammer mission ISK, which is predominately high sec income, into the ground. Meantime, null sec belt rats are already small spawns of tougher ships, high end null sec plexes are already run in groups with specialized fits more like PvP (logis are a must in 10/10's), and of course, null sec moon goo income must never, ever be touched.
The changes in Retribution to the NPC AI are affecting all NPC, the ones in null-sec and the ones in high-sec. CCP Fozzie has recently made changes to moon-goo and knowing him probably won't stop.
The idea of creating missions that encourage players to bring fits that are more in line with PvP does not mean we are forcing those players to PvP because as you said, if they wanted to PvP they would. Anyways, since nothing has been decided for sure yet on what we will do with missions I am not going to say anything else on that. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1122
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 11:20:00 -
[63] - Quote
Just as a heads up guys you should be getting a post from one of us soon giving some details about what plans we have for the AI going forward. Sorry we have been so quiet, we have been trying to nail down a few things and figure out exactly what changes we want to make. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1560
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
Junko Sideswipe wrote:Is FoxFour's team still even assigned to this? I see Fozzie posting in the sticky up top about reducing aggro to drones, but haven't heard a peep about player ship aggression.
Team Five-0 is the team still assigned to this. After Retribution we made some changes to teams though for the new year and I am now on team True Grit working on the EVE - DUST link. Fozzie and Affinity are both now on Five-0 giving Five-0 four designers now. Game Designer | Team True Grit |
|
|
|
|