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Alek Spline	Posted - 2011.07.26 17:36:00 - [1] The Viator was full, 16.6k units of Water in its cargo. It was fantastic, I warped away from the customs office as clean as I warped in, and quickly cloaked. Good times. Then I thought - wait: - 1 unit of water is 0.38 m3 in volume. That is 380 litres. - "One litre of liquid water has a mass of almost exactly one kilogram, due to an earlier definition of the kilogram." (linky) - 1 eve unit of water should then have a mass of 380 kg's. So, carrying 16,600 units of Water should add 6,308,000 kg's to that Viator, a bit more than the 5,000,000 kg's that a 10mn MWD would add. Shouldn't it be harder to warp out, having that many buckets of water sloshing around in the cargohold?
Baaldor In Igne Morim	Posted - 2011.07.26 17:47:00 - [2] Originally by: Alek Spline The Viator was full, 16.6k units of Water in its cargo. It was fantastic, I warped away from the customs office as clean as I warped in, and quickly cloaked. Good times. Then I thought - wait: - 1 unit of water is 0.38 m3 in volume. That is 380 litres. - "One litre of liquid water has a mass of almost exactly one kilogram, due to an earlier definition of the kilogram." (linky) - 1 eve unit of water should then have a mass of 380 kg's. So, carrying 16,600 units of Water should add 6,308,000 kg's to that Viator, a bit more than the 5,000,000 kg's that a 10mn MWD would add. Shouldn't it be harder to warp out, having that many buckets of water sloshing around in the cargohold? There are no gravity physics applied in the internetspaceship game. ( I do not believe gravity will have that much affect on your ship.....floating in space.)
Abrazzar	Posted - 2011.07.26 17:51:00 - [3] Edited by: Abrazzar on 26/07/2011 17:50:57 Originally by: Baaldor There are no gravity physics applied in the internetspaceship game. ( I do not believe gravity will have that much affect on your ship.....floating in space.) Mass.... Gravity.... sigh
Alek Spline	Posted - 2011.07.26 17:53:00 - [4] Originally by: Baaldor There are no gravity physics applied in the internetspaceship game. ( I do not believe gravity will have that much affect on your ship.....floating in space.) It is actually inertia that I was worried about. It's a very good point about gravity though, thanks for bringing it up! Shouldn't it be harder to warp out of planets than to warp out of safespots in the middle of nowhere?
De'Veldrin Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.07.26 17:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Abrazzar Edited by: Abrazzar on 26/07/2011 17:50:57 Originally by: Baaldor There are no gravity physics applied in the internetspaceship game. ( I do not believe gravity will have that much affect on your ship.....floating in space.) Mass.... Gravity.... sigh chuckles Yeah, I know. That aside, Eve has never taken into account the contents of your cargo hold when working with mass. Which is why you can cram a covetor into a class 1 WH in the cargo hold of a mammoth.
That Handsome Frog	Posted - 2011.07.26 17:54:00 - [6] You slow down after turning afterburners off and thrusters dont turn off after hitting maximum speed, yeah ccp thinks we are flying planes >_>. Thats how games go I guess. Make em balanced. Obviously Iceland does not have any physics grads in the gaming industry D:.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.07.26 17:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Alek Spline Originally by: Baaldor There are no gravity physics applied in the internetspaceship game. ( I do not believe gravity will have that much affect on your ship.....floating in space.) It is actually inertia that I was worried about. It's a very good point about gravity though, thanks for bringing it up! Shouldn't it be harder to warp out of planets than to warp out of safespots in the middle of nowhere? No, it shouldn't, because the mass you're accelerating (i.e. the ship) has not changed. Now, in theory, having a cargo hold full of water SHOULD make it harder, but you can see my previous post for the answer to that.
Alek Spline	Posted - 2011.07.26 17:59:00 - [8] Originally by: De'Veldrin No, it shouldn't, because the mass you're accelerating (i.e. the ship) has not changed. I would argue that I could not accelerate the ship without also accelerating its contents. Originally by: De'Veldrin Now, in theory, having a cargo hold full of water SHOULD make it harder (...) Word.
KaarBaak Minmatar No Option Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:14:00 - [9] Originally by: Alek Spline Originally by: De'Veldrin No, it shouldn't, because the mass you're accelerating (i.e. the ship) has not changed. I would argue that I could not accelerate the ship without also accelerating its contents. I think he was referring to the location change (SS vs planet). Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:21:00 - [10] Once upon a time, I used to think//hope ALL mass on a ship (hull + modules + cargo) is taken into account when figuring out inertia (align/accel time) and AB/MWD top speed. Sadly, it appears I was not right. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Abrazzar	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Akita T Once upon a time, I used to think//hope ALL mass on a ship (hull + modules + cargo) is taken into account when figuring out inertia (align/accel time) and AB/MWD top speed. Sadly, it appears I was not right. Isn't the warp activation capacitor cost dependent on mass, too, or am I only imagining things? --------
Zagam	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:24:00 - [12] Originally by: KaarBaak Originally by: Alek Spline Originally by: De'Veldrin No, it shouldn't, because the mass you're accelerating (i.e. the ship) has not changed. I would argue that I could not accelerate the ship without also accelerating its contents. I think he was referring to the location change (SS vs planet). A planet exists within a gravity well. You have to factor in escape velocity of the gravity well. SS, not so much. In regards to the water, I don't have specs for the Viator handy, but what is the mass of the ship, and how much % does the weight of the ship go up with the water added? ---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:24:00 - [13] It's a game, if it were realistic you wouldn't play it.
Alek Spline	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:25:00 - [14] Originally by: KaarBaak I think he was referring to the location change (SS vs planet). Is it the same to pull a 100kg object away from earth (i.e. lift it), than it is to move it for the same distance in space?
Abrazzar	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Mendolus It's a game, if it were realistic you wouldn't play it. Hell, of course I would! --------
Alek Spline	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Zagam how much % does the weight of the ship go up with the water added? The Viator's base mass is 11,150,000 kg so 6,000,000 kg of water...
Alek Spline	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: Mendolus It's a game, if it were realistic you wouldn't play it. Hell, of course I would! +1
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: Mendolus It's a game, if it were realistic you wouldn't play it. Hell, of course I would! I think you misunderstood my point, I was referring to the slippery slope of realism. Someone will always clamor that it is not realistic enough for their tastes. Thus the idea that the game is somehow not presently realistic enough is moot, since the decision lies with CCP on what they themselves feel is a sufficient level of realism, even if it is based off of theory crafting technology that does not exist yet. I was not referring to the fact that naturally the game could use a few minor tweaks here and there in the statistics or interaction with physical space. I am saying that if this were based on real technology available to us, no one would play it. Would you want to sit in a simulated space station for twelve hours watching bean plants grow in zero gravity in a hydroponics lab? Although interesting I am sure, I know I would not pay $14.95/mo for that.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:39:00 - [19] Let's see... uranium has a density of 19.1 g/cm3. That should, if I'm not mistaken, equate to 19,100 kg/m3, or 28,650 kg for the standard 1.5 m3 chunk we get from PI. (~ 63182.5 lbs) So my besto, carrying 21K m3 of the stuff has an extra 401,100,000 Kg of mass in it... yeah... I'm gonna need a push. There is no monocle.
Tom Gerard Caldari Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic	Posted - 2011.07.26 18:58:00 - [20] Perpetuum does this perfectly but with only nine or ten players it is clearly not going to make CCP any more money. This will never be implemented the development team is too shortsighted. This is the type of stuff an EVE killer MMO will pick on to pull the geekiest gamer. On a realistic change I want a red outfit in the NeX.
Alek Spline	Posted - 2011.07.26 19:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Mendolus Would you want to sit in a simulated space station for twelve hours watching bean plants grow in zero gravity in a hydroponics lab? Although interesting I am sure, I know I would not pay $14.95/mo for that. Hehe, me neither, but let me introduce you to the miners over there... I see your point, but on the other hand eve is (arguably?) the most complicated mmo out there, I see no reason why not make it that bit more realistic/complicated. It might make it (even) more interesting. Anyway, I'm just discussing in "what if" mode - it's not like such a fundamental change could happen anytime soon. P.S. Uranium - OUCH! that's a bit under 2 orcas' worth!
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.07.26 19:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Alek Spline Originally by: Mendolus Would you want to sit in a simulated space station for twelve hours watching bean plants grow in zero gravity in a hydroponics lab? Although interesting I am sure, I know I would not pay $14.95/mo for that. Hehe, me neither, but let me introduce you to the miners over there... I see your point, but on the other hand eve is (arguably?) the most complicated mmo out there, I see no reason why not make it that bit more realistic/complicated. It might make it (even) more interesting. Anyway, I'm just discussing in "what if" mode - it's not like such a fundamental change could happen anytime soon. P.S. Uranium - OUCH! that's a bit under 2 orcas' worth! LOL true true, it would be nice if spaceships were less like submarines for sure, when I first started playing I was under the impression that all manner of neat physics stuff would be at play in the game only to find out within days that it was not at all the case. However, thus far I am pretty satisfied with nearly everything except collision mechanics. If you wanna talk about big disparities in the way mass and acceleration work well ^... hehe
Zitus NON PROPERO	Posted - 2011.07.26 19:18:00 - [23] Came here expecting Marty McFly reference. Left disappointed. ------------------ I'm not sure if my eyes are actually bleeding, or if it's merely my brain bleeding out through my eye sockets, but either way, it hurts to read what you just wrote
Matalino	Posted - 2011.07.26 19:24:00 - [24] Originally by: Akita T Once upon a time, I used to think//hope ALL mass on a ship (hull + modules + cargo) is taken into account when figuring out inertia (align/accel time) and AB/MWD top speed. Sadly, it appears I was not right. Once upon a time, the mass of items in your cargo hold were taken into account when figuring out inertia (align/accel time). I remember very early in my Eve career I used GSC's to increase my hauling capacity. With a mass of 6,000,000 kg each, my Iteron V struggled to get into warp when fully loaded. I left them behind whenever I could so that my ship would warp faster. I don't know when it was changed, but the mass of items in your cargo hold no longer appears to have any effect on inertia. Not that it would matter much as none of the PI goods (ie Water) have any mass.
Malak Alraheem Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.26 19:49:00 - [25] Water is massless because it is transported in a dehydrated state. When it arrives and is used it needs to be re-hydrated to work correctly. . I'm as mad as I can take it and I'm not going to hell anymore! I have reassigned my money for CCP to other projects for the next 18 months...
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.07.26 20:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Malak Alraheem Water is massless because it is transported in a dehydrated state. When it arrives and is used it needs to be re-hydrated to work correctly. I hope this was a troll, lol... otherwise
Franny Mentis Seorsum	Posted - 2011.07.26 20:38:00 - [27] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Malak Alraheem Water is massless because it is transported in a dehydrated state. When it arrives and is used it needs to be re-hydrated to work correctly. I hope this was a troll, lol... otherwise I read it and started laughing
Malak Alraheem Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.26 20:45:00 - [28] Edited by: Malak Alraheem on 26/07/2011 20:45:35 Originally by: Franny Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Malak Alraheem Water is massless because it is transported in a dehydrated state. When it arrives and is used it needs to be re-hydrated to work correctly. I hope this was a troll, lol... otherwise I read it and started laughing http://www.buydehydratedwater.com/ "Is it necessary to rehydrate your product before use, like any other product?" Response: It depends on how you choose to use the product. If you wish to consume it, you must rehydrate the dehydrated water first. See! . I'm as mad as I can take it and I'm not going to hell anymore! I have reassigned my money for CCP to other projects for the next 18 months...
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.07.26 21:09:00 - [29] Originally by: That Handsome Frog yeah ccp thinks we are flying planes Submarines actually. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Dalloway Jones	Posted - 2011.07.27 05:12:00 - [30] Arrrgghhh too much math!

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