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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
749
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Posted - 2012.09.21 10:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tarikla wrote:RIP Drones Ship. Except for that, not much changes. NPC will still have fail-fits and no real ewar except for those missions like The Blockade, so ... Not much change here actually.
All new NPCs I create will have player like fits and hopefully one day I will have time to go over the older NPCs.. this is a lot of work though ;) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
751
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Posted - 2012.09.21 20:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:My thoughts are there are too many broken items in Eve for CCP to be wasting time with NPC AI at this point in time
Thing is, it's not really the programmers who are dealing with the NPC AI... it's the content designers, and not even the entire content team. For example, I am working on FW not NPC AI CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
761
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Posted - 2012.10.02 11:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Veryez wrote: Here's a suggestion CCP, you guys don't live in highsec, you don't run missions, neither does the CSM. .
None of the CSM's representing HI SEC is HI SEC's fault for voter apathy for the most part. If we as the majoriy of EVE don't vote it is our fault. I'd perfer the CSM being more representative with electoral districts but any system that tried to base its its reps from where they 'appear' to be from probably would be highly susceptableto gaming. I don't think none of the CCP DEVs lives inHI SEC but itdoes often appear to be true and I believe a majority are NULL or WH residents . I am positive they do careabout HI SEC though I'm sure thegame designers such as CCP Afinity do read these posts here. That said I know it is tuff to notbe overly negitive ( I'm oftenguilty of that too ) but stating that improved AIs as being a negitive just is silly... I believe making mission AI's in the long run will improve the game and hope Incursion AI's ( whom I fight daily) in the future too become smarter even though in the long run my ISK generation would be reduced; why? because I enjoy the challenge of a goodfight in PvE even though they are rare & usually are because of DC's of logi
Yes I do read the posts :) and lots of us devs do live in HI SEC - but we have to move forward.. we can't just never update the NPCs because people are scared of the new challenge it might present. CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
761
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Posted - 2012.10.02 12:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lord Okinaba wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Veryez wrote: Here's a suggestion CCP, you guys don't live in highsec, you don't run missions, neither does the CSM. .
None of the CSM's representing HI SEC is HI SEC's fault for voter apathy for the most part. If we as the majoriy of EVE don't vote it is our fault. I'd perfer the CSM being more representative with electoral districts but any system that tried to base its its reps from where they 'appear' to be from probably would be highly susceptableto gaming. I don't think none of the CCP DEVs lives inHI SEC but itdoes often appear to be true and I believe a majority are NULL or WH residents . I am positive they do careabout HI SEC though I'm sure thegame designers such as CCP Afinity do read these posts here. That said I know it is tuff to notbe overly negitive ( I'm oftenguilty of that too ) but stating that improved AIs as being a negitive just is silly... I believe making mission AI's in the long run will improve the game and hope Incursion AI's ( whom I fight daily) in the future too become smarter even though in the long run my ISK generation would be reduced; why? because I enjoy the challenge of a goodfight in PvE even though they are rare & usually are because of DC's of logi Yes I do read the posts :) and lots of us devs do live in HI SEC - but we have to move forward.. we can't just never update the NPCs because people are scared of the new challenge it might present. Well I'm not afraid of new challenges. My concern is that currently, the drone boats only niche is PVE. They are very rarely used in PVP because missiles/guns are far more effective and reliable at applying damage. If this new AI is too aggressive towards drones then it will only serve to make drone boats even more redundant.
Team Five 0 are testing the new AI with drone boats in missions - NPCs will target switch according to sig radius so sure, frigs might target your drones.. but so far this has proven to cause minimal drone casualties.
CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
761
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Posted - 2012.10.02 13:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
I have also pointed this thread out to CCP Foxfour so hopefully he will post soon :) I don't work on this feature, so only so much I can comment on CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
761
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Posted - 2012.10.02 13:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Yes I do read the posts :) and lots of us devs do live in HI SEC - but we have to move forward.. we can't just never update the NPCs because people are scared of the new challenge it might present. It might be wise to consult with those whom vote with their money before going ahead and making decisions that will negatively affect their desire to give your company their vote.
Five 0 are reading all the feedback and making sure the concerns raised are included in tests they do. Unfortunately, we cannot halt all development until we make sure everyone is 100% happy with the changes being made, but what we can do is take your concerns on board and make sure we negate them prior to release. CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
726
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Posted - 2012.10.02 15:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hey guys!
So if you don't know who I am I am the guy that is making this change. Just to be clear the dev blog about this can be found over here and the feedback thread for it can be found here.
I have been attempting to follow that feedback thread primarily and I apologize for not reading this thread and commenting on it sooner. I would prefer if you had additional feedback that you posted it in the feedback thread above.
Now, down to business. I have read a good portion of the thread, if I don't answer your question directly sorry. I will however try and answer as many questions as possible.
I have read a few posts stating that devs don't play the game, or that we don't play a specific area of the game such as high sec PvE, or null sec PvE. I can't even begin to tell you how wrong you are. Just in the game design department alone we have people who play both of those areas and much more. This is also not a change we just willy nilly said "well we have nothing else to do so letGÇÖs throw darts at a board and pick something random." This is a change we really feel is needed and really believe in.
As most of this thread is focused on the concerns of drone users letGÇÖs start with them. I don't think I made this entirely clear when I posted the dev blog, but one of the factors that go into an NPC picking a target is the sig radius of both the NPC and the target. The NPC prefer to shoot things matching their own sig radius. This means that if you are in a BS with drones, the cruiser and BS sized NPCs will much prefer to target you while the frigates will probably prefer to switch to your drones. In other words; even when the NPC decide to shoot your drones they don't die nearly as quickly as when you accidentally kill the wrong trigger and a whole new wave spawns shooting your drones. Is that a buff to drones? I donGÇÖt know, but it sure is a change.
I also don't think I made it entirely clear as to how much threat generation matters to this new NPC. One of the really cool things you can do is take two ships with less tank than is currently required, when one tank is failing do something to generate a lot of threat and have the NPC switch to you. I know, this whole concept of managing aggro is new to EVE but other games have been doing it for a long time. With how smart you guys are, I have faith you will quickly come up with ways to beat the new AI far faster than we can.
One of the things I have been doing is using a flight of light drones to kill the frigate NPC and then going with sentry or heavy drones because once the light drones are dead the cruisers and BS basically don't care about drones. Also, a smart bomb is nice for dealing with large numbers of frigates in close.
I am actually currently of the opinion that these changes are making missions two easy in some cases. With how the NPC acted before, all you had to do was bring one tank that was good enough to tank them for the entire time. Now all you need a tank enough to survive until you get them to switch targets. I have seen people run missions/PLEX with dual rep Dominix and maybe a bit of RR on a second one. You can now do the same with 0 local rep, some RR, and replace the local reps with drone damage mods. The result? More DPS from you primary form of DPS (your drones) and this fantastic ability to control aggro.
People in wormholes and Incursions have been dealing with this new AI for some time now without much of a problem. I have seen wormhole setups that use drones be of great success. The NPC I am giving the new AI to will have a lot less hate towards drones than the ones in Incursions or wormholes. This means drone setups should be even more viable than in either wormholes or Incursions.
So drone users, please hold on for just a bit and as soon as our test server is up with these changes I will let you know. Once you have had a chance to test it, died/failed miserably, and tried a new setup I would love some feedback.
To give you an example of how these changes have made things too easy in my opinion. I tanked the final room of The Maze, specifically the citadel torpedo launcher that does something like 180k EM damage, with a single flight of light drones. o_O That will probably change, but my point stands. There are plenty of options still out there for drone users.
Admittedly for those that solo missions in a ship that has no drones this change means nothing at all. It has the largest impact on drone users and groups of players.
Think about this. If we had this AI in from the beginning and came to you and said "hey, we want to swap the AI out to something that will pick the first target it sees and never changes" I am pretty sure we would be laughed at... a lot.
Are there going to be people that die to this change? Yea, especially to that crazy citadel torpedo launcher that exists at the end of The Maze and other anomalies. Just like how peopled died to it when we first introduced it. What I advise is that players take extreme care when they are doing any PvE content in which they previously did with more than one ship and/or with drones. Don't trust the guides online, don't trust what you know. Approach it as new content.
If you are aware of any specific content in which you fear will be unplayable after this changes please bring it to my attention. I am playing through and testing as much content as I can get my hangs on.
What other things are being brought up as concerns?
Null sec ganks of people running PvE content. This does have an effect on that no doubt. To be honest yes this means you will no longer be able to do this solo in a stealth bomber. I however just tested it and was able to tank six frigate NPC in my nemesis long enough for another character to jump into the system and warp 73au. I might be wrong but with the amount of EWAR that comes from frigates, and their hatred of drones, most people usually shoot them first when running these. The cruisers and BS never even looked at my Nemesis while I ganked the Raven. I also made sure the Raven was only running local tank so as not to generate any extra threat. If you want to be able to gank these guys solo, then yes it is going to mean you will need to bring something bigger. If there are a lot of frigate NPC on the field, well that will be difficult. We have accepted that as OK.
I have read a few posts that state having a way to control aggro is essential to group ... Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
734
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Posted - 2012.10.03 12:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Guys please move the feedback to the other thread. I should have made my post there and posted a link from here to there. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
742
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Posted - 2012.10.04 10:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:Maz3r Rakum wrote:Lets say a ganker appears and attacks the initial ratter. Wouldn't it make sense that the NPC would not aggro the ganker as he is attacking what they were already attacking?
Your intention is to make the rats smarter isn't it? Making them switch to the ganker would effectively not accomplish your goal. Does that happen in 0.0 systems with NBSI policy? Why should the rats be more diplomatic than nullsec players? Oh and btw. the link FoxFour forgot to post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155690Could a mod close this thread please, so we can discuss in ONE thread? Thanks.
Yea, that was my fault I included a link in my big post but should have added it again.
Please try and keep the feedback over in this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155690 Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
769
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Posted - 2012.10.04 13:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Closing this thread.
As stated several times, all feedback welcome here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155690 CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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