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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
205
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Posted - 2012.09.21 19:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
- The bonuses multiply, thus its 2*1.25 = 2.5 boost at level 5. Thus the 2 bonused gas harvesters become 5.
- The ship was play tested in low-security gas sites - it's not necessarily made to tank null-security sites as it is an entry level hull.
- As said in the OP, industry tutorials should be changed to give this frigate instead of the old ones.
Bonus needs to be bigger so its not pointless training ore frig 5 to do the job a destroyer or cruiser can do at level 1. 10% instead of 5% would do it, the damage tanking is fine, even in null there are sites that do no damage and it seems reasonable that someone would need a cruiser hull stank for the big sites.
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Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
206
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Posted - 2012.09.21 19:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kesthely wrote:Stop looking at its implementations for a fully maxed out industry character!
This STARTING mining ship isn't ment for accomplished hulk pilots, maxed out gas harvesting pilots or any one that can fly a mining barge! Its ment as a starting ship for industry just like the T1 Frigate is ment to be a starting ship for combat pilots.
The ships it replaces were by FAR less effective. This frigate can even serve as a low skilled ore hauler. Starting characters can easily get enough yield out of this thing till they skill up and are able to buy the mining barges, and after that its still usefull to hold on to for your first adventures as a gas cloud miner.
For gas mining the low skill ship that is better than it is a destroyer at destroyer level 1 that players train day 1 if they aren't a trial acc.
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Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
206
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Posted - 2012.09.21 20:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arele wrote:Doddy wrote:
Bonus needs to be bigger so its not pointless training ore frig 5 to do the job a destroyer or cruiser can do at level 1. 10% instead of 5% would do it, the damage tanking is fine, even in null there are sites that do no damage and it seems reasonable that someone would need a cruiser hull stank for the big sites.
The bonus is fine, and the fact it's even on the ship means that CCP realizes that new players will fairly quickly replace it and get into a barge for mining. People need to realize that the gas harvesting bonus is an ancillary benefit of the ship to keep it relevant. Mining Frigate will be a rank 2 skill, which is like 10 days to the 'established' players. If that's too high a price, you can continue harvesting gas in bcs, cruisers or destroyers.
So its not a gas mining ship at all, its one that has a useless bonus no one will use. How is that keeping it relevant?
You realise gas harvesting is a rank 1 skill? currently a player can fly a destroyer with maxed gas mining in less than 5 days while to get the SAME effect from the ship actually bonused for it you would have to train ore frig 5 (which hardly anyone will do unless its a prereq for barges which i seriously doubt) AND gas mining 5 which is more like 2 weeks.
Of course the easiest way round that is reducing the req for gas harvester t2 to lvl 4 instead of 5 meaning the miner didn't need to train gas harvesting 5 to be as good, but that may be too "easy mode".
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Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
207
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Posted - 2012.09.21 20:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Arele wrote:The bonus is fine, and the fact it's even on the ship means that CCP realizes that new players will fairly quickly replace it and get into a barge for mining. People need to realize that the gas harvesting bonus is an ancillary benefit of the ship to keep it relevant. It's actually more than relevant for "casual" gas mining. With Gas Mining II and ORE Frigate III (which is, what, half a day of training?) you get the equivalent of 4.6 gas miners with a ****-ton of cargo.
This would be the case of we weren't talking about such quick training skills, gas mining 4 is a half days training as well so really you are gaining 0.6 of a harvester for the 4 more days it would take you to get gas harvesting 5 at which point you are better off using anything with 5 turret slots.
The ore hold on the other hand is great, as is the warp strength bonus so mayb it would be worth it.
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Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
207
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Posted - 2012.09.21 21:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Doddy wrote:The ore hold on the other hand is great, as is the warp strength bonus so mayb it would be worth it. This is why I would choose the frigate over a BC, for instance. ****, look at the align time of this thing...
Yeah i am coming round to it. I just don't really like the idea of a bonused hull doing something (harvesting gas) no better than an entirely unrelated hull with no bonuses for it with less sp invested. Its more a finesse thing than an actual practical issue i guess.
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Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
210
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Posted - 2012.09.21 21:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am also really happy having just realised the implications for ore thievery |
Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
211
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Posted - 2012.09.21 21:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cartheron Crust wrote:Plenty bads in this thread crying. I have never taken damage from harvesting gas that you make boosters from. 
The large 0.0 only sites have a percentage chance with each cycle of emitting a therm smartbomb effect of 1000 damage that hits everything within 5k of the cloud. That can be nasty if you get unlucky and get several damage bursts in a row. Its much worse with multiple ships as each one has a chance of triggering the effect and any mining must be within 1.5k of the cloud. So while you might be able to fit this frig to tank on its own 2 or 3 would die.
Still if you are going to kill the rats defending the site (there alot in the biggest site) and mine it instead of just mining the same gas out of the smaller low sec sites that also spawn in 0.0 and have no damage one assumes you can fit out a couple of moas and a hauler :).
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Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
211
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Posted - 2012.09.21 21:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Doddy wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:
- The bonuses multiply, thus its 2*1.25 = 2.5 boost at level 5. Thus the 2 bonused gas harvesters become 5.
- The ship was play tested in low-security gas sites - it's not necessarily made to tank null-security sites as it is an entry level hull.
- As said in the OP, industry tutorials should be changed to give this frigate instead of the old ones.
Bonus needs to be bigger so its not pointless training ore frig 5 to do the job a destroyer or cruiser can do at level 1. 10% instead of 5% would do it, the damage tanking is fine, even in null there are sites that do no damage and it seems reasonable that someone would need a cruiser hull stank for the big sites. cool did not know destroyers had cargo hold of 5k
Jetcans ftw.
Still yeah i do on second glance quite like this even if its raw output is no better than a dessie.
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Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
224
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Posted - 2012.09.24 18:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Simvastatin Montelukast wrote:Do noobs even have the scanning skills to find low sec gas sites?
They are not hard to find, still i suspect actual noobs will mainly be using them in hi sec as they don't realise how worthless hi sec gas is. It will have nice synergy if they adjust the explo career missions to have you go into the grav/ladar site you have probed down and mine/harvest with your ore frig. At the moment you simply get a certificate to take back rather than actually do anything in the site (hacking etc you do actually do something).
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Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
231
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Posted - 2012.09.25 23:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:we estimate the +2 warp stabilizer bonus to be fine for now - the ship almost has no defense on its own, and desperately needs it to compete in the areas it's supposed to operate. I hate to be rude, but literally what are you even talking about? You're talking about a frigate. Something that takes a couple of seconds to align and warp. It also has a utility high for a cloak, meaning once its off-grid it can literally vanish without sacrificing a mining laser at all to do it. It has no defenses because it's a bloody industrial ship. It's defensive ability is its ability to quickly run away. My shuttle / ibis / Mammoth / Orca have no defenses either, are you gonna give them all built-in WCS as well? Explain to me why it's necessary to make an already-escapable ship literally invulnerable to 95% of solo PvPers. It seems almost like this is based on the idea that by making mining frigates harder to catch and kill, it will encourage 0.0 mining. Which I guess might possibly be true if 0.0 mining wasn't so worthless and boring, though it still misses the fundamental point - the biggest benefit to encouraging 0.0 industry is that it restores the first link in the food chain, that of vulnerable, tempting targets for solo-ers and small gang-ers to catch and kill, and that auto-stabbed frigate hulls don't particularly fit in the 'vulnerable targets' description.
To be honest i think the entire +2 warp strength thing is for getting away from belt rats.
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Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
281
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Posted - 2012.10.11 10:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
How long are noobie miners gonna stay in game when they are permajammed by guristas in thier sensor strngth 4 frigs (at least in cal space). That is almost half that of the bantam so nearly twice as much jamming. |
Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
292
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Posted - 2012.10.15 13:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Martin0 wrote:Doddy wrote:How long are noobie miners gonna stay in game when they are permajammed by guristas in thier sensor strngth 4 frigs (at least in cal space). That is almost half that of the bantam so nearly twice as much jamming. They will skill drones II and scout drone operation I (total train time <2 hours) and deploy those 2 drones to kill the rats. you can do it with the bantam too, if you bother to kill that stupid jammer rat with you drone. And don't say "drones for caldari are useless" every ship bigger than a frigate use drones.
I wasn't really serious about it being an issue, i just don't see why they gave its such a low sensor strngth in comparison to current mining frigs. Also given drone aggro mechanics and the upcoming rat aggro mechanic changes its perfectly possible for your drones not to engage the rats for ages, then be killed by one of the rats.
Poor noobie miner :( |
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