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When do we get the functionality back?

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Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.08 14:39:00 - [91] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 08/08/2011 14:06:37 Originally by: Miss Rabblt have you ever heard about keyboard shortcuts? Trust me it is really useful! 1 minute of work (well 1 hour for you) to setup and now... It simply works! àand the existence of work-arounds doesn't remove the fact that functionality was removed for no good reason. In fact, the need for them only further highlights the point. well. this is life. Everything is changing time by time. Once Microsoft disabled direct access to PC resources in Windows. And it was really nice and useful feature! A lot of nice looking games and other software was made around direct control of videocard.... And now. You use something other. I hope you don't whine about it? Originally by: Tippia I take it that none of you "lol nothing is lost" people would mind even a bit if the HUD was removed in space? You aren't right. HUD is useful. More than "double-click somewhere in space to open ship's cargo hold" or "ship spinning".
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.08 14:47:00 - [92] Originally by: Miss Rabblt Once Microsoft disabled direct access to PC resources in Windows. And it was really nice and useful feature! You mean those resources you can still access directly, but which were supplemented by more generic methods that put the onus on the hardware manufacturers to provide proper support for their products, rather than on the software manufacturers to have to support every last bit of kit out thee? àwhich has very little to do with the topic at hand. Quote: You aren't right. HUD is useful. So was the functionality of the hangar view, and just like there are work-arounds for all of that, you don't really need the HUD because there are work-arounds for that as well. So let's remove it! You won't complain. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.08.08 14:52:00 - [93] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Noddy Comet I can do everything now in my quarters that I could before. You can't double-click anywhere to open your cargo hold. You cannot direcly and always access all of your ship menus by simply right-clicking the ship in front of you. You cannot activate a ship by dragging it out the hangar. Actually you can double click your ship in the ship hangar to open the cargo, which is pretty close. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Newt Rondanse	Posted - 2011.08.08 14:58:00 - [94] Well, if you only care about accessing the myriad cargo holds and drone bays on the ship you are currently in, then I suppose having to click on the tiny icon in the ship bay instead of anywhere on the screen is a horrible inconvenience for you. ... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.08 15:03:00 - [95] Originally by: Newt Rondanse BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! So you're on board with the idea of removing the HUD, then, I take it. Excellent. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
De'Veldrin Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.08.08 15:32:00 - [96] First, let's clear up the semantics arguments. Functionality wasn't removed (with the exception of the purely cosmetic function of being able to spin your ship)- what was changed was how you access that functionality, and yes, some of those changes were for the worse, but they certainly aren't game breaking. From the tactical standpoint, CQ is a PITA because it does slow down reloading, ship changing, etc, so honestly, I can see the argument there. i would fix that by replacing the door with a static image of your current ship that allows you to perform the same functions in the same way as the previous hangar view. As for removing the HUD, Tippia, that's a disingenuous argument, especially coming from a poster of your caliber. Removing the HUD would make the core part of the game completely unplayable - it's not even of the same scale as the changes made to the hangar. --Vel Originally by: Blacksquirrel This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.08 16:05:00 - [97] Originally by: De'Veldrin As for removing the HUD, Tippia, that's a disingenuous argument, especially coming from a poster of your caliber. Removing the HUD would make the core part of the game completely unplayable - it's not even of the same scale as the changes made to the hangar. It's more of a reductio ad absurdum kind of argument. If it's ok to remove one part of the UI that provides quick and easy access to commonly used functions for no good reason (and it's ok to do so because there are work-arounds to do the same thing), then it's ok to remove some other part for the UI for the same reason (especially since it, too, can be accessed in other ways). Yes, the HUD may be a more critical component for some, but it isn't for everyone and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It certainly wouldn't be unplayable ù just keep the log and fitting windows up, and you're good to go. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Sieges	Posted - 2011.08.08 16:27:00 - [98] Originally by: Smoking Blunts im looking at a door, that does way less than before Me too. I hope they reintroduce Ship Spinnng and have a separate button in the UI to "Enter CQ".
De'Veldrin Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.08.08 16:44:00 - [99] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: De'Veldrin As for removing the HUD, Tippia, that's a disingenuous argument, especially coming from a poster of your caliber. Removing the HUD would make the core part of the game completely unplayable - it's not even of the same scale as the changes made to the hangar. It's more of a reductio ad absurdum kind of argument. If it's ok to remove one part of the UI that provides quick and easy access to commonly used functions for no good reason (and it's ok to do so because there are work-arounds to do the same thing), then it's ok to remove some other part for the UI for the same reason (especially since it, too, can be accessed in other ways). Yes, the HUD may be a more critical component for some, but it isn't for everyone and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It certainly wouldn't be unplayable ù just keep the log and fitting windows up, and you're good to go. And how does one launch drones with no Hud? Don't get me wrong, I see your point, and I agree with it, to an extent. I don't like it when software changes make what I am trying to do harder. --Vel Originally by: Blacksquirrel This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
Newt Rondanse	Posted - 2011.08.08 17:32:00 - [100] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Newt Rondanse BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! So you're on board with the idea of removing the HUD, then, I take it. Excellent. Sure, as long as there is something else that lets us monitor our ship's status and activate/deactivate modules while in space. Which there isn't, and if there was it would be a HUD. What you are suggesting is simply absurd, not even worth ennobling with a latin name.
Sieges	Posted - 2011.08.08 18:33:00 - [101] Originally by: Trig Onami The reason they took it away is because if you looked closely: Windows had this "shine" to them. When you spun your ship.. the shine travelled around the windows, based on the non-carbon-based lighting used on your ship in the old hangar. They have to basically start from scratch with the new lighting from carbon engine to re-implement this feature. If this is true then we will still have horrid performance if they ever let us sit and spin again
Smoking Blunts	Posted - 2011.08.08 18:38:00 - [102] Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: Tippia Originally by: De'Veldrin As for removing the HUD, Tippia, that's a disingenuous argument, especially coming from a poster of your caliber. Removing the HUD would make the core part of the game completely unplayable - it's not even of the same scale as the changes made to the hangar. It's more of a reductio ad absurdum kind of argument. If it's ok to remove one part of the UI that provides quick and easy access to commonly used functions for no good reason (and it's ok to do so because there are work-arounds to do the same thing), then it's ok to remove some other part for the UI for the same reason (especially since it, too, can be accessed in other ways). Yes, the HUD may be a more critical component for some, but it isn't for everyone and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It certainly wouldn't be unplayable ù just keep the log and fitting windows up, and you're good to go. And how does one launch drones with no Hud? Don't get me wrong, I see your point, and I agree with it, to an extent. I don't like it when software changes make what I am trying to do harder. there is a shortcut for launching drones. well there used to be, not sure if that was also removed
Ranger 1 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.08.08 18:55:00 - [103] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 08/08/2011 18:56:26 To be really, really specific... the question is not why was functionality removed from our station environment. The functionality we enjoyed previously was part of the old station environment, and that no longer exists. The true question is why was the previous functionality not recreated for this new station environment. The distinction is subtle, true, but I think it's important to remember that they didn't just yank something handy out and throw it in the bin for no reason. The threw out the whole thing, probably with very good reason, and simply have not yet recreated something as simple to use for the new station environment. I suspect that simply pulling the old code and tossing it back in would not work very well. It will have to be recreated, or something very close to it will have to be coded. Either way, it will probably take a bit of time. It's just unfortunate that this wasn't done before it was released. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.08.08 19:07:00 - [104] Edited by: De''Veldrin on 08/08/2011 19:07:21 Originally by: Smoking Blunts there is a shortcut for launching drones. well there used to be, not sure if that was also removed Actually, there's not, and I doubt there ever was for the simple reason that the short cut cannot know which of the drones in my drone hold I mean to launch. Certainly I can hit CTRL+ALT+L (if it existed) to launch drones, but which drones? My carrier has over 300 drones in the drone bay - which of those would shoot out into space? In this case, the HUD is essential - there is literally NO OTHER WAY to launch a specific group of drones - removing the HUD doesn't just make things harder, it literally breaks two whole classes of ships (carriers and moms), as well as severely gimping several other specific models (Dominix, et al.). --Vel Originally by: Blacksquirrel This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
Smoking Blunts	Posted - 2011.08.08 19:16:00 - [105] im pretty sure there was but oh well that was a long long time ago i looked, ive had 2 kids since then anyhow when ccp are you restoring the functionality that you removed and promised to reinstate in the blog from over a month ago?
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.08 21:28:00 - [106] Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 08/08/2011 21:29:06 Originally by: Ranger 1 The threw out the whole thing, probably with very good reason, and simply have not yet recreated something as simple to use for the new station environment. This is the worrying thing though - what possible reason that makes sense, could there be, to remove a bit of functionality that was habitually ingrained for a whole bunch of players? There are two tolerably sensible rationales, certainly, for forcing CQ on people - you want to get them used to "being their avatar" instead of "being their ship", and you want to shove NeX in their faces. These may be misguided rationales, and that's arguable, but they are rationales. However, it makes no sense whatsoever not to duplicate and carry over the same, or analogous functionality to the new system (and its cut-down alternative i.e. the door). It makes no sense, because to do so is to stop immersion in its tracks for a huge number of players. It's not some tweak that only affects a few, but something that, as we have seen, affects what one could probably assume is a substantial minority of players - and is still affecting returning players (as we can see). Why do that? So that's the worrying thing: it seems like a change that wasn't thought through. This compounds the suspicion that EVE may not in fact be "safe hands" with CCP, it exacerbates the niggling worry that's arisen for many since the leaked Newsletter - the worry that CCP is losing touch with what makes EVE EVE. If they are so blasT about something small but fundamental, where else are they not "getting" their own game? Even, practically speaking, is the "team" that's working on the game now the same "team" that invented its basically clever and deep gameplay systems years ago? Is the management team the same? I've seen something like this happen with another company, Cryptic. Cryptic made a great game of its kind, City of Heroes, widely praised, and loved by many; years later it made a game (Champions Online) that was in many ways (not all, but many ways) inferior to the first game they made. For example, CoX was a PUG-ing game par excellence, which made it stand out from the crowd; yet CO is more typical of modern cookie-cutter MMOs in being mostly a solo game. Cryptic recognised this flaw, and at one point could be found asking plaintively on the forums for suggestions to improve teaming. In response, someone said on the forums: "how can they be asking us for ideas about teaming, when they'd already knocked it out of the park with CoX"? So the worry is, is the loss of functionality of Hangar view just another symptom that CCP is gradually drifting, or already has gradually drifted away from understanding their own game in the way that many of its players understand it? A few months ago, someone asked CCP devs to say if they still played the game. It turns out that a gratifying number of devs do indeed play the game, but very few of them PvP, mostly PvE. Is this significant? Before "Fearless", I might have said no; after "Fearless", I wonder if it isn't of a piece with the seeming misunderstanding of their own players in the Newsletter, the infamous devblogs and email, and the subsequent floundering-around and mummery with the CSM. It all begins to look like EVE is either getting out of focus, or simply changing into another type of game - more of a game, and less of a virtual world. More like other MMOs. ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.08.08 21:48:00 - [107] Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian This is the worrying thing though - what possible reason that makes sense, could there be, to remove a bit of functionality that was habitually ingrained for a whole bunch of players? The code they removed was more than likely ancient, and could not be re-tooled to work in the new UI before launch and was decided to ditch it in order to make way for improvements. I have to do that all the time at work...I have 10 year old code that I eventually just get sick of **ing with and just ditch it all and re-write because it didn't work right after migrating database platforms...I'm constantly poking at really old code I didn't write to begin with trying to fix tiny little things that have no documentation that break and slowly snowball into larger issues...I'm actually in the middle of re-writing very critical code at the moment in order to be able to deploy a remote version of our accounting software. It sucks, but give them a bit of time to re-factor that ancient ** into what they have to work with now...it's not as easy as some people try to make it out to be around here. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.08 22:17:00 - [108] Edited by: Tippia on 08/08/2011 22:18:15 Originally by: De'Veldrin And how does one launch drones with no Hud? The same way you do now ù through the drone window. I'm not talking about removing windows ù I'm talking about the collective HP/cap/speed display and module button array (usually) located at the centre of your screen (which is commonly referred to by CCP as the HUD). Quite useless stuff. Remove it. Originally by: Barakkus The code they removed was more than likely ancient, and could not be re-tooled to work in the new UI before launch and was decided to ditch it in order to make way for improvements. They had just revamped the hotkey system, so if it suddenly didn't support double-clicks (which it most obviously does since manual manoeuvring still works), that would have been silly. It does, so removing that functionality makes no sense. They had also quite recently revamped the whole windowing system, and it still obviously accepts things like right-clicks and drop targets so that removal makes no sense either. And finally, the non-CQ environment can obviously display static images, much like how the old one did, which means that there is no technical obstacle to show what ship is currently active. Ship spinning? Yes, it's gone in the non-CQ environment, but so whatà the actual functionality is what matters and there was no reason to remove it.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.08.08 22:19:00 - [109] Originally by: Tippia And finally, the non-CQ environment can obviously display static images, much like how the old one did, which means that there is no technical obstacle to show what ship is currently active. You are making assumptions about code you have no intimate knowledge of, unless you're a dev alt.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.08 22:20:00 - [110] Originally by: Barakkus You are making assumptions about code you have no intimate knowledge of I know that the code can display an image. I know this because it does. I even know how to alter that image, which requires zero dev ability. There are no assumptions being made here.
Aias Telemonias	Posted - 2011.08.08 22:24:00 - [111] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Noddy Comet I can do everything now in my quarters that I could before. You can't double-click anywhere to open your cargo hold. You cannot direcly and always access all of your ship menus by simply right-clicking the ship in front of you. You cannot activate a ship by dragging it out the hangar. What is this with people being unable to open their cargos by double-clicking on their ships? Were you able to open cargo by double-clicking on your ship back in the ship-spin (old) hangar? I can open my ship's cargo by double-clicking on it in the actual ships hangar just fine. I'm guessing that since everybody seems to be having trouble with this that you used to be able to open cargo by double-clicking on your active ship in the old ship-spin hangar.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.08 22:30:00 - [112] Originally by: Aias Telemonias What is this with people being unable to open their cargos by double-clicking on their ships? Were you able to open cargo by double-clicking on your ship back in the ship-spin (old) hangar? You were able to open the cargo bay by double-clicking pretty much anywhere outside a window (and on any ship in your Ships window, if you had it open). Now you have to have your Ships window open and have to make sure your active ship is in view and only then can you open its cargo bay by double-clicking it. Your confusion seems to come from your assumption that when people say "hangar", they mean the Ships window, when they actually mean the view you had over the hangar and of your ship floating in it. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
rootimus maximus Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.08 22:39:00 - [113] Originally by: De'Veldrin Actually, there's not, and I doubt there ever was for the simple reason that the short cut cannot know which of the drones in my drone hold I mean to launch. Certainly I can hit CTRL+ALT+L (if it existed) to launch drones, but which drones? My carrier has over 300 drones in the drone bay - which of those would shoot out into space? If you right click on your drone menu and select launch drones it throws as many (random?) drones out as your skills / ship allow. A shortcut to do exactly that would be better than nothing. _____________________________________ I don't think we should complain about it... or CCP may try to fix it and OMG!!!... no, not good...
De'Veldrin Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:17:00 - [114] Originally by: rootimus maximus Originally by: De'Veldrin Actually, there's not, and I doubt there ever was for the simple reason that the short cut cannot know which of the drones in my drone hold I mean to launch. Certainly I can hit CTRL+ALT+L (if it existed) to launch drones, but which drones? My carrier has over 300 drones in the drone bay - which of those would shoot out into space? If you right click on your drone menu and select launch drones it throws as many (random?) drones out as your skills / ship allow. A shortcut to do exactly that would be better than nothing. Actually it might be worse than nothing. Imagine I need to launch fighters and what shoots out are light repair drones. --Vel Originally by: Blacksquirrel This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:26:00 - [115] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Barakkus You are making assumptions about code you have no intimate knowledge of I know that the code can display an image. I know this because it does. I even know how to alter that image, which requires zero dev ability. There are no assumptions being made here. You are now over simplifying the issue. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Soi Mala Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:33:00 - [116] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: Tippia And finally, the non-CQ environment can obviously display static images, much like how the old one did, which means that there is no technical obstacle to show what ship is currently active. You are making assumptions about code you have no intimate knowledge of, unless you're a dev alt. You are aware that before CQ, the option to not load station environment was still there? Only before, it'd show a static picture of the hangar, complete with your current ship, and all the double click and drag and drop functionality. So it isn't really assumptions about code, we know what was there before, and we know it was removed in favour of the door. Considering this was given to us as a "legacy option" (legacy usually meaning a continuation of the old way), there was no reason whatsoever to change from the fully functioning static hangar, to the door (aside from either a) spite, or b) a pitiful attempt to force people into incarna).
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.09 14:45:00 - [117] Originally by: Barakkus You are now over simplifying the issue. Where's the over-simplification? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:13:00 - [118] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Barakkus You are now over simplifying the issue. Where's the over-simplification? Because you can hack up and put any old image there doesn't necessarily mean that it's "easy" to just toss some images in and swap them out based on particular criteria. The old static image when you disabled ship spinning in the previous client seemed to actually render a static image based on the model and station environment on the fly, which that code was more than likely removed completely because they revamped all the station code for CQ. If they were going to just add in static images they're going to either write code to do the old static rendering or they are going to have to get the art department to mess with creating static images with all the combinations of ships/station environments...niether of which is probably very "easy". I expect a little more from you honestly, you're quite intelligent, I get that you're mad, but seriously...I'm sure you also understand what it takes to write code, and do it well...without intimate knowledge of the underlying code you can not just flat out say something is "easy". - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Crystal Liche	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:16:00 - [119] Originally by: Smoking Blunts Quote: The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu. so its a little over a month since this was posted in a dev blog Linkage whats the time table for the restoration of the functionality we lost with CQ? Just undock, you can spin till your hearts content...
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.09 15:24:00 - [120] Originally by: Brusanan The only useful feature of Incarna is the static door image that most players see while docked. it was their choice of heart isn't it? they even made thousands of forum posts "first i've done after Incarna loaded". So why do you whine about it?

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