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Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2011.08.06 13:47:00 -
[1]
Hi
I'm thinking my smal corp could benefit from some simple PVP exercies. In the past we've been ECM jamming each other, and pointing and webbing and shooting at asteroids, but the problem is those asteroids never blow up. In fact they don't even take damage.
I'm thinking there are two options here.
1. Put my alt in a Drake with both shield and armour buffer tank (and DCU2). We designate him primary and pewpew away at him until he's into armour, then we stop. This is cheap insofar as everyone does stop once he's in armour, and he has an armour repper fitted so there's no repair bill. If he does get blown up, it's several dozen million ISK down the drain. Maybe less if I insire his ship, but I'd rather not have to do that.
2. Buy a lot of small'ish identical T1 ships and fit them with T1 modules, then put my alt in it (he can only fly Caldari ships, but has good skillz), and then we blow him up again and again. This is costlier than item #1 above, but gives us the satisfaction of a big boom if we "win".
Either way, my alt could be shooting back at us, except we're a tiny corp so I'd rather be contrlling my main and helping my corp mates gank him. Unless he can utilize defender missiles. In an steroid belt, and being sure only to hit corpmates (so that CONCORD won't come along). Is that doable?
Anyway, I'd appreciate suggestions for fits, in part for a Drake with hug armour buffer and a little shield, which is not supposed to be blown up, and for cheaper and smaller ships that can reasonably be killed by something like 1 tackler Merlin and 2 Kestrel fitted for gank.
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Salpad |
Delucian
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Posted - 2011.08.06 14:00:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Delucian on 06/08/2011 14:03:14
T1 frigs at dawn. Best low ISK fun and training you can find. No relying on Drake tank or gank just learning and cheap fun.
I am in Red vs Blue which is one Corp two sides constantly at war (but in a good way). We just had a T1 only weekend and it was a blast.
You should consider something like this for learning PVP. Lots of fit variability and you can learn all the PVP mechanics especially using Merlin, Punisher, Rifter.
Edit; in your small Corp ya"ll can and should be fighting each other full out (save podding). Leave off the ECM mods but all else goes. Don't talk fits before a fight and see who wins. Then talk about what worked and what didn't.
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Nomad Vherokic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.06 14:02:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nomad Vherokic on 06/08/2011 14:02:45
You guys seem to be suffering from 'afraid to die' syndrome... Why you seem to want to designate someone as a pinata is beyond me...
Just buy a bunch of cheap T1 frigs, kit them out with T1 meta0 modules, and blow each other up as best you can. You can even make 'sides', 2 fleets of 2 each and run around the roid belts blasting away...
EDIT: did think about RvB myself, but above guy beat me to it...
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Why do people sign their name at the bottom of a post? We know who you are already... |
TheMahdi
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Posted - 2011.08.06 15:11:00 -
[4]
What exactly do you learn shooting at a stationery buffer Drake that you can't learn shooting red boxes in a mission?
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Ryuce
My Bonnie Lies over the Ocean
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Posted - 2011.08.06 17:56:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ryuce on 06/08/2011 17:57:28
Hi,
EVE has a test server (singularity aka sisi) where you can test this and find other people who will want to fight you and your mates.
Check it out. Should save you some of your worries :)
E: Any losses and kills which occure on sisi aren't valid kills in game, thus it won't ruin killboard stats if anyone is worried about that.
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Lyris Nairn
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.06 18:13:00 -
[6]
Minmatar Frigate V will give you an amazing Rifter.
Rifters are the best things.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.08.06 18:40:00 -
[7]
go shoot some real targets. you will learn nothing from the proposed duck hunt.
~~~
Screenshot batch compression |
Diesel47
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Posted - 2011.08.06 19:13:00 -
[8]
Make one of your miners jet-can mine...
Hide your group of noobs in T1 frigs one system out.. when some guy takes the can and turns red... warp the fleet in and get some fights. Then start fighting bigger stuff in bigger ships.
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Sjugar
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Posted - 2011.08.07 00:11:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sjugar on 07/08/2011 00:11:46
Have every single one of your corp-mates board their most expensive ship.
Take them out through low-sec and 0.0 and don't come back till every single one of you lost that ship.
Watch your corp change forever.
This may sound like madness but it's actually not. Assuming that none of your corp-mates are in multi-billion isk boats but that their expensive ship are things like drake and hurricanes, the impact won't be that big. For a newer player it might look big but it's something you laugh about when you get older.
This exercise will get one important thing out of the way: the fear of losing ships. Once you lose that you can truly enjoy pvp.
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2011.08.07 01:41:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Sjugar
Edited by: Sjugar on 07/08/2011 00:11:46
Have every single one of your corp-mates board their most expensive ship.
Take them out through low-sec and 0.0 and don't come back till every single one of you lost that ship.
Watch your corp change forever.
This may sound like madness but it's actually not. Assuming that none of your corp-mates are in multi-billion isk boats but that their expensive ship are things like drake and hurricanes, the impact won't be that big. For a newer player it might look big but it's something you laugh about when you get older.
This exercise will get one important thing out of the way: the fear of losing ships. Once you lose that you can truly enjoy pvp.
This. Is the best thing you could ever do! Best suggestion ever.
Go lose ships and don't T1 fit them either, do a proper PvP T2 fit (if you have SP tho) battlecruiser of your choice and you won't look back on your cowardice anymore.
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Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
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Posted - 2011.08.07 01:51:00 -
[11]
If you want inexpensive PvP training, use T1 frigs with cheapest meta or T1 modules.
Good full T2/meta 3-4 PVP frigs go for around 10-12M total (you would retrieve most modules dropped so loss is say 1/2-1/3 that. Full T1 (meta 0) fits should be @ 1-2M total.
Use 1 BC for target, but properly fitted for PVP - Any BC would work, and actually you should try all BCs to get a grasp of their capabilities.
Use 2-3 frigs for predators. Try to fit them and develop strategies to beat that BC/Fitting.
He should not hold back - you all can benefit from the process, but you have to give 100%.
Learn from your losses / failures and improve your strategies.
Once you are done with frigs (you are NEVER done, bored I mean), rinse and repeat with T1 cruisers, or try 1 vs 1 with the frigs.
Of course proper pvp drakes, canes etc should be immune to 2-3 rifters - you have to be more creative, but even this little bit of knowledge (aka, what is a proper pvp drake or cane, how is it flown etc to laugh at 2-3 rifters) is something. Lotsa somethings can add up to nearly EVERYTHING ;)
If in the long run you don't become noticeable better in pvp (team communication, preperation, tactics & fittings), that means you use crappy raw materials, you don't study the KBs for successful fittings from the "usual suspects", you don't watch "proper" pvp videos posted in the forums etc.
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Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.07 01:55:00 -
[12]
I love this mentality.
"I need to go shopping for ship modules. Hey, look, a Damage Control II for 1million isk. Hmm, I have one a few jumps over...bah who cares? It's only 1 million isk and that's nothing. *bought*"
Followed by:
"I can't undock in my rifter. This thing cost me 900,000 isk fully fitted. And if I lose it I will be disappointed!"
Advice:
Have a bunch of your corpmates fit out about 5 to 10 of the best frigate they can fly. Try to fit it for under 1 million isk (this should be easy.) Then go shoot at each other in a giant brawl. Have them swap out modules for things like webbers or target painter or jammers between fights. Try an active tank fit vs a buffer tank fit, use drones, learn about overheating. Etc. etc. etc.
The whole thing should cost each person under 10,000,000 isk each and the knowledge gained will be well worth the investment.
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Pharos Pharos
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Posted - 2011.08.07 05:04:00 -
[13]
Take the advice in here. The only way to really learn to PvP is to do it.
If you don't want to go out hunting targets, fit up a bc, have your corpies fit out frigs and have them try their damnedest to kill you while you fight them pretty much as well as you can until they figure out a way to kill you - which shouldn't be hard after a couple tries with a 4-6 man frig wolfpack versus a single BC, even if they have to resort to griffon spam with racial jammers.
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Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2011.08.07 05:32:00 -
[14]
The things I want to train my corp mates (and myself) in are the very basics of fleet PVP. Fleetdiscipline, paying attention to the FC, noticing when he calls primary, correct point/web procedure, and so forth. Sitting watch at a gate waiting for the prey to come through.
And we're all veteran carebears with 2-4 years of play, but in a small corp.
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Salpad |
Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.08.07 06:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Salpad
The things I want to train my corp mates (and myself) in are the very basics of fleet PVP. Fleetdiscipline, paying attention to the FC, noticing when he calls primary, correct point/web procedure, and so forth. Sitting watch at a gate waiting for the prey to come through.
The most important skill of fleet pvp is knowing when to warp out when yellow-boxed and when to broadcast for reps. |
Pharos Pharos
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Posted - 2011.08.07 06:29:00 -
[16]
Teaching them 'fleet discipline' will get you sheep that are capable of following FC orders without knowing why.
Teaching them to actually PvP individually will teach them fleet discipline as a byproduct and they will be much more proficient at it because they'll understand the basics of PvP without having to be told everything.
If you want them to be able to point stuff jumping through a gate and follow orders, that shouldn't take 'training'. As mentioned, the ability to be quiet and listen to what the FC is saying is enough, maybe broadcast for reps if you're getting ambitious, and hopefully they'll have the dignity to die quietly as well when you inevitably are baited into an unfavorable engagement and be unable to respond effectively.
Most competent small-gang PvP these days requires individual skill and initiative - see nano gangs, any gang with ECM, pretty much anything besides RR brick blobs. The FC cannot run every aspect of a fleet, and as such you need your pilots to be more than mindless sheep if you want to engage in small gang pew.
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Salen Kane
Amarr
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille
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Posted - 2011.08.07 11:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Salpad
The things I want to train my corp mates (and myself) in are the very basics of fleet PVP. Fleetdiscipline, paying attention to the FC, noticing when he calls primary, correct point/web procedure, and so forth. Sitting watch at a gate waiting for the prey to come through.
And we're all veteran carebears with 2-4 years of play, but in a small corp.
Fleet discipline without combat nerves is meaningless. It doesn't matter how much you've practiced following orders and paying attention; the first time your guys come under fire, all that will crumble like the proverbial cookie. When the average carebear faces the fact that he might, just might lose his first rifter, discipline goes out the window. People freak out the first few times they come under fire.
Get into a couple of scraps. If you worry about losses, do like previous posters suggested and do it on the test server. Have your guys blow eachother up, or get mauled by more experienced players. Once everyone has tasted the bitterness of losses, only then can you begin learning how to avoid it.
Those who would equate EVE violence with RL violence deserves to suffer both. |
Delucian
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Posted - 2011.08.07 12:41:00 -
[18]
Listen to everything being said here (except maybe for the guy who said to fit a BC and shoot at it). Start in low end T1 frigs, like said, fitted for say $1 mil. Everybody go to a belt, do a count down and fight. You have to get rid of the fear of being at 500 meters to bust your opponent.
If you have been carebearing that long, you are probably adept at keeping your range or kiting, which becomes utterly useless against a Rifter, Rupture or Stabber that is going to dictate range.
Find out just how hard it can be to put down a decently fit Merlin in a decently fit Rifter, and vice versa. Then move up to Cruisers and do the same, rinse and repeat. Fight each other to figure out what worked and what didnt. But get into other fights, with those who you cannot predict.
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Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2011.08.07 13:24:00 -
[19]
Will CONCORD intervene if people in the same corp kill each other?
If people in the same fleet do?
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Salpad |
Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.08.07 13:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Salpad
Will CONCORD intervene if people in the same corp kill each other?
No.
Quote:
If people in the same fleet do?
If they are not in the same corp, yes. (obviously, only applies to highsec)
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
Cruor Evertum Dominicus
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Posted - 2011.08.08 08:22:00 -
[21]
saw this thread, and i can't believe i still have these video's that i made from way back in the day... uploading to my youtube channel and i'll post the links. Don't mind the crap quality / size, they're originally for a small flash video pop up thing.
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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vorneus
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Posted - 2011.08.08 13:13:00 -
[22]
As someone above said - go to the test server and practice. It's what it's there for.
-Ed
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