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Bob Blackey	Posted - 2011.08.12 14:22:00 - [1] For obvious reasons this post is being made as an alt. I am now getting more into industry and am regularly moving loads to and from jita worth in the range of 500m - 1b. I have started using battleships to move the cargos because I am concerned that indys are unsafe. Also most of the stuff I sell is relatively small so a bs has enough cargo space for my needs. So what ships would you recommend to haul stuff to and from jita. Is it safe to use auto pilot or is that too dangerous? I have tried googling this but as so often seems the case with eve all the articles I have found are several years old when this was more of a problem. TIA
Jiska Ensa	Posted - 2011.08.12 14:30:00 - [2] Cloaky blocade runners. And don't autopilot, no matter what ship you are using. Some people will just sit there and scan any ship that's autopiloting.
Derath Ellecon	Posted - 2011.08.12 14:53:00 - [3] Blockade runners are win. I love flying mine. Not even so much do to the safety, but also the speed. It has the cargo of a small transport, with the speed and align time of a frigate. Not only do I not worry about suicide gankers, I generally take the shortest path all the time as well, regardless of the low sec.
Franny Mentis Seorsum	Posted - 2011.08.12 14:54:00 - [4] orca / freighter, both slower than ****(but a lot more costly to suicide, cargo has to be somewhere between 2 and 3b iirc to be worth suiciding... doing it for tears tho is supposedly priceless) orca has the unscannable 'cargo' area after that cloak with a blockade runner(don't auto pilot it, it WILL go wrong the time you do, so says my alt's loss mail ) ---------------------------------------------------------- WTB Sig must include NOS Domi KILLING Ponies other details to be discussed, EVEmail me for details
Danico Buchald Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.12 16:35:00 - [5] Thirding blockade runners. Don't use autopilot. Use undock bookmarks.
Loki Sei	Posted - 2011.08.12 16:44:00 - [6] While you have told us the value, you have neglected to tell us the m3. If it under 7k m3 then nothing beats a cloaky transport. If it gets over 20-30k m3 then you are going to have to make multiple runs, and then the smaller cloaky transport does not make as much sense. For larger loads, I personally use an orca with a 100mn MWD and a tank. Sacrifice the lows for Power Grid mod and a nano. Gets off the gate in 1 cycle of the MWD and has enough tank it is going to take a coordinated effort to gank you. Also not sure if the Corp Hanger is still "unscanable" or if the nerfed that. So alot of the answer depends on the volume you are hauling, as well as the value.
Veronica Kerrigan Minmatar Hand Of Midas	Posted - 2011.08.12 17:09:00 - [7] I doubt many people would think to chekc an abaddon that was going to Jita, and if they did, this would be the ship that would keep you alive [Abaddon, Tanky Hauling] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I My enemy is the enemy of my other enemy, unless my enemy hates me more than my other enemy in which case my enemies are friends.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat	Posted - 2011.08.12 17:39:00 - [8] There is a moon directly off the Jita 4-4 undock. Make a bookmark between it and the station. Using this bookmark to insta-undock IMMEDIATELY (before the session change timer expires -- not on by default, so enable it -- you are invulnerable), you can get out of the crowd in pretty much any ship. That leaves the rest of the route as the only hazard, specifically when departing a gate. Unless you are AFK, then approaching a gate is when gankers will attack. I use a freighter (Charon) for nearly all transport. If I want to AFK something extremely valuable, then I use an Orca, as it has an unscannable corporate hangar and ship hangar. The Orca is slower AFK than the Charon though, and the Charon is the slowest freighter. Recently I moved over 8 billion ISK worth of ships and modules in a Charon. I used a scout for this one, and looked for battleships on the gates (it takes several to gank a freighter). It was the most I've ever hauled at one time. If I only have something small to move, I'll use either a Covert Ops or a Blockade Runner. I prefer to use the freighter or Orca though, as insurance against a disconnection or client crash.
Julien Brellier	Posted - 2011.08.12 18:01:00 - [9] If cargo is under 3,000m3, a blockade runenr is the order of the day. If it is upto 40,000m3, then the unscannable Orca corp cargo hold is the way to go. You can also carry up to 77,500m3 in total on a max skill ORca, with an EHP over 280,000.
Phugoid	Posted - 2011.08.12 18:10:00 - [10] Edited by: Phugoid on 12/08/2011 18:10:10 Originally by: Tau Cabalander There is a moon directly off the Jita 4-4 undock. Make a bookmark between it and the station. Using this bookmark to insta-undock IMMEDIATELY (before the session change timer expires -- not on by default, so enable it -- you are invulnerable), you can get out of the crowd in pretty much any ship. That leaves the rest of the route as the only hazard, specifically when departing a gate. Unless you are AFK, then approaching a gate is when gankers will attack. I use a freighter (Charon) for nearly all transport. If I want to AFK something extremely valuable, then I use an Orca, as it has an unscannable corporate hangar and ship hangar. The Orca is slower AFK than the Charon though, and the Charon is the slowest freighter. Recently I moved over 8 billion ISK worth of ships and modules in a Charon. I used a scout for this one, and looked for battleships on the gates (it takes several to gank a freighter). It was the most I've ever hauled at one time. If I only have something small to move, I'll use either a Covert Ops or a Blockade Runner. I prefer to use the freighter or Orca though, as insurance against a disconnection or client crash. Tau... what do you mean by "before session change timer expires" ?
Krixtal Icefluxor Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.12 18:11:00 - [11] Slap a Large Ancilliary Current Router Rig to your Orca and disable your High Slot modules for transporting purposes as you will need to fit a 100mn MWD on that Orca. That MWD will get you in Warp guaranteed 10 seconds from any point in space. Station undocks are 2 or 3 cycles of MWD depending. 12 Jumps to Dodixie with full Orca Cargo in aroound 10 minutes, if. It's a Godsend seriously. ************************ "God is nothing but the power of the Universe, as a whole, to organize itself." - Lee Smolin Three Roads to Quantum Gravity**
Krixtal Icefluxor Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.12 18:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Tau Cabalander That leaves the rest of the route as the only hazard, specifically when departing a gate. Unless you are AFK, then approaching a gate is when gankers will attack. ......either I'm missing something or this is contradictory....... ************************ "God is nothing but the power of the Universe, as a whole, to organize itself." - Lee Smolin Three Roads to Quantum Gravity**
Loki Sei	Posted - 2011.08.12 18:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor Originally by: Tau Cabalander That leaves the rest of the route as the only hazard, specifically when departing a gate. Unless you are AFK, then approaching a gate is when gankers will attack. ......either I'm missing something or this is contradictory....... I believe he is saying that getting off the gate is the dangerous part, unless you autopilot, then getting to the gate is when the will attack. Since if you are jumping to zero, there is not a lot of time gank you on approach.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat	Posted - 2011.08.12 21:06:00 - [14] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 12/08/2011 21:16:50 Originally by: Phugoid Tau... what do you mean by "before session change timer expires" ? When you undock from a station, you start a 30 second session change timer that prevents you from certain activities, like re-docking or jumping. You can see the time remaining by enabling the timer in your settings (checkbox near the top left of general I think), and mousing-over the timer (spinning clock face). While the session change counter is running, and you don't change direction or activate any modules (you can CTRL SPACEBAR and stop though), your ship cannot be targeted. I shouldn't have said invulnerable, because it can be hit by AoE weapons, but in hisec for all intents and purposes you are invulnerable during that time. Originally by: Loki Sei Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor Originally by: Tau Cabalander That leaves the rest of the route as the only hazard, specifically when departing a gate. Unless you are AFK, then approaching a gate is when gankers will attack. ......either I'm missing something or this is contradictory....... I believe he is saying that getting off the gate is the dangerous part, unless you autopilot, then getting to the gate is when the will attack. Since if you are jumping to zero, there is not a lot of time gank you on approach. Yes. When you warp to zero and jump, there is nothing gankers can do on the incoming gate, however on the outgoing gate they have time to bump you out of alignment, or lock target and shoot while you are accelerating to warp speed. When you are AFK, the ship lands 15 km from the gate, travels until it is 2.5 km from the gate, then jumps. This is a lot longer than the time spent accelerating to warp on the outgoing gate. Even a solo attacker can easily get in front of the ship and keep bumping it away from the gate until their fleet of friends arrive to help gank it. Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor Slap a Large Ancilliary Current Router Rig to your Orca and disable your High Slot modules for transporting purposes as you will need to fit a 100mn MWD on that Orca. That MWD will get you in Warp guaranteed 10 seconds from any point in space. Station undocks are 2 or 3 cycles of MWD depending. 12 Jumps to Dodixie with full Orca Cargo in aroound 10 minutes, if. It's a Godsend seriously. Yes, I do that all the time, but it only works if you are at the keyboard (ATK) and not AFK. Plus, all you need is a reactor control to fit a 100MN MWD temporarily. Every Orca should keep these modules on hand (and a few others) in the corporate hangar. Oh, and it only takes one MWD cycle if you are aligned, or not moving. I often find it is easier to CTRL SPACEBAR out of the station, then single cycle the MWD to warp away.
Hendr1x	Posted - 2011.08.12 22:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Jiska Ensa Cloaky blocade runners. And don't autopilot, no matter what ship you are using. Some people will just sit there and scan any ship that's autopiloting. I second that. If you're really hauling things worth anything don't autopilot. Train transports to 4...you don't have to, but it's a good idea. They haul very fast and cloaked.
Thatsbecause	Posted - 2011.08.13 00:04:00 - [16] Edited by: Thatsbecause on 13/08/2011 00:06:57 There's the close to invulnerable route, using either a Cov ops or a Blockade Runner. Jump thru a gate, warp to next gate and cloak up immediately. If you do it right, you can never be targeted. (edit, this works in an SB, cloaky recon or cloaky t3 as well, obviously.) Then there's the orca-freighter route. Lots of EHP, only the most organized gankers will have a chance, and you'll need to have some very high-value cargo for them to want to target you. Sticking to 1.0 - 0.7 systems helps too. Then there is the courier contract route. There are corps and players that will haul for you, and while it may cut into profits, if you set collateral correctly, you will never lose money, even if a gank does happen, the 3rd party is shouldering the risk rather than you. And never autopilot.
Franny Mentis Seorsum	Posted - 2011.08.13 00:34:00 - [17] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Recently I moved over 8 billion ISK worth of ships and modules in a Charon. I used a scout for this one, and looked for battleships on the gates (it takes several to gank a freighter). It was the most I've ever hauled at one time. only 8b what's the going on an Ogre 2 BPO these days?(granted I hauled it yrs ago when the lotto was still going) I hauled that in an Arazu, from low sec(where the agent I won it from was) nearly **** myself on every jump ---------------------------------------------------------- WTB Sig must include NOS Domi KILLING Ponies other details to be discussed, EVEmail me for details
Phugoid	Posted - 2011.08.17 16:23:00 - [18] Edited by: Phugoid on 17/08/2011 16:23:05 Hey Tau Cabalander..... this is your quote: "While the session change counter is running, and you don't change direction or activate any modules (you can CTRL SPACEBAR and stop though), your ship cannot be targeted. I shouldn't have said invulnerable, because I think (?) it can be hit by AoE weapons, but otherwise in hisec for all intents and purposes you are invulnerable during that time." I was ganked undocking from Jita one day, and it was immediatley just after I undocked. So what happened there?
SENTIENEL	Posted - 2011.08.17 17:45:00 - [19] Rookie Ship Ibis. They are popular in forge region. All newbies flying in them around. No1 scan rookiships. I remember once I carried 150 BPO in ibis :) gankers are peanutbrain but they learn eventually. lol now I need to change my favrt ship
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat	Posted - 2011.08.17 18:14:00 - [20] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 17/08/2011 18:14:25 Originally by: Phugoid I was ganked undocking from Jita one day, and it was immediatley just after I undocked. So what happened there? Iteron V destroyed by an alpha (gank) Apoc: You probably undocked then tried to warp to a gate. During this time, you were no longer protected. It takes time to change heading and accelerate to warp, which gives attackers ample amount of time to lock target and fire. You should have warped to an insta-undock bookmark (there is a moon aligned with the Jita 4-4 undock that you can make a bookmark between), then aligned and warped to the gate from there. Warping direct to a gate from a trade hub undock with valuable cargo is often suicide.
Phugoid	Posted - 2011.08.17 18:25:00 - [21] Edited by: Phugoid on 17/08/2011 18:25:44 Thanks for the quick response Tau! And yes, good advise sir. In that particular incident I was complacent. On top of that I did have an insta-spot to warp to, but didnt use it :( I had just completed a courier run TO Jita succesfully, and then just undocked on my way to the other delivery when...... KABOOOM! Complacency, especially at Hubs can be deadly. Lesson learned tho, and thanks again!
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.17 20:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 17/08/2011 18:14:25 Originally by: Phugoid I was ganked undocking from Jita one day, and it was immediatley just after I undocked. So what happened there? Iteron V destroyed by an alpha (gank) Apoc: You probably undocked then tried to warp to a gate. During this time, you were no longer protected. It takes time to change heading and accelerate to warp, which gives attackers ample amount of time to lock target and fire. You should have warped to an insta-undock bookmark (there is a moon aligned with the Jita 4-4 undock that you can make a bookmark between), then aligned and warped to the gate from there. Warping direct to a gate from a trade hub undock with valuable cargo is often suicide. There is actually a station straight out (can't recall the name off hand) that is pretty much an insta undock just warp to it at some distance other than 0, once you land then warp to your out gate at 0. As far as moving lower volume high value cargo in high sec, nothing beats the Orca for safety. properly fit it's got a couple hundred thousand EHP so nothing but the most serous gank squad is going to kill it, then you have the fact that stuff in the corporate hanger poofs when the ship is destroyed meaning that unless the Orca pilot is stupid and put something in the regular cargo then there is no financial incentive to gank it and most the groups that can gank an Orca aren't going to blow their isk and security standing just for lulz particularly when that Charon coming up behind you will create just as many lulz and likely a profit to boot.
Velicitia Gallente Open Designs	Posted - 2011.08.18 09:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Tau Cabalander Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 17/08/2011 18:14:25 Originally by: Phugoid I was ganked undocking from Jita one day, and it was immediatley just after I undocked. So what happened there? Iteron V destroyed by an alpha (gank) Apoc: You probably undocked then tried to warp to a gate. During this time, you were no longer protected. It takes time to change heading and accelerate to warp, which gives attackers ample amount of time to lock target and fire. You should have warped to an insta-undock bookmark (there is a moon aligned with the Jita 4-4 undock that you can make a bookmark between), then aligned and warped to the gate from there. Warping direct to a gate from a trade hub undock with valuable cargo is often suicide. There is actually a station straight out (can't recall the name off hand) that is pretty much an insta undock just warp to it at some distance other than 0, once you land then warp to your out gate at 0. think it's jita 4 moon 5 or something... I warp to some ransom distance from the moon... and then will set the next month's insta while en-route ========================= Originally by: CCP Games, 2010 Creation is so precious; and greed, so destructive. Your choices can make a diference
Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance	Posted - 2011.08.18 10:19:00 - [24] I second(third? fourth? fifth?) blockade runners, when carrying up to 8000m3 worth of small stuff, cloaky one will be very nice and very very fast. Otherwise, the big fat one is also a good option for if you're carrying more. ( Mastodon can carry about 30k m3 not using cans ) The big fat ones ( with +2 warp strength ), are slower, but they have a tank beyond compare, definitely enough to hold out to a bunch of alpha battleships if you fit it properly. I use the cloaky one most of the time myself, because I like the speed, and I tend to go through low and null sec with it as well. They aren't completely safe, but pretty much as close to as possible. Only way they can get you is if they have a fast locking ship that is able to lock you in the time between you engaging warp and you activating your cloak.
marketslave Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2011.08.24 13:52:00 - [25] Freighter + Rapier = I win Insta Warp fom Gate to Gate...
Lowkey Asgaurd Minmatar Fluffy Carebears	Posted - 2011.08.25 11:06:00 - [26] Originally by: marketslave Freighter + Rapier = I win Insta Warp fom Gate to Gate... So the insta warp web trick still works ?
Miyo Chuchi	Posted - 2011.08.25 13:53:00 - [27] Originally by: SENTIENEL Rookie Ship Ibis. They are popular in forge region. All newbies flying in them around. No1 scan rookiships. I remember once I carried 150 BPO in ibis :) gankers are peanutbrain but they learn eventually. lol now I need to change my favrt ship Fancy being the next Aystra?
Kesshisan Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.25 14:11:00 - [28] I do a lot of salvaging. And most of that material is tiny. I've hauled ~ 1 billion isk worth of goods in a nano'd Rifter. It's practically impossible to target that thing before it aligns. In fact I love it so much I attached some low friction nozzle joints. I find the Rifter works well for transporting blueprints, salvage, some of the more expensive minerals, and anything else that's expensive but tiny. You can also use the microwarpdrive + cloak trick for increased safety. Of course if you get the blockade runner, this is unnecessary. .
Velicitia Gallente Open Designs	Posted - 2011.08.25 14:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Lowkey Asgaurd Originally by: marketslave Freighter + Rapier = I win Insta Warp fom Gate to Gate... So the insta warp web trick still works ? mostly, it's a little more involved than back when we had 90% webs... ========================= Originally by: CCP Games, 2010 Creation is so precious; and greed, so destructive. Your choices can make a diference
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.08.25 14:45:00 - [30] Put your small, high-value items inside containers and then put the containers inside courier contracts. None of the valuable items will then appear on cargo scan results, so people will generally be unwilling to commit to a suicide attack. See here for further details. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Krixtal Icefluxor Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.25 15:07:00 - [31] Originally by: Xearal I second(third? fourth? fifth?) blockade runners, when carrying up to 8000m3 worth of small stuff, cloaky one will be very nice and very very fast. Otherwise, the big fat one is also a good option for if you're carrying more. ( Mastodon can carry about 30k m3 not using cans ) The big fat ones ( with +2 warp strength ), are slower, but they have a tank beyond compare, definitely enough to hold out to a bunch of alpha battleships if you fit it properly. I use the cloaky one most of the time myself, because I like the speed, and I tend to go through low and null sec with it as well. They aren't completely safe, but pretty much as close to as possible. Only way they can get you is if they have a fast locking ship that is able to lock you in the time between you engaging warp and you activating your cloak. I trained E-Warfare Skills and went ahead and stuck on a Muli-Spec Jammer II and Signal Distortion Amp II in a Low slot on Blockade Runner. This at least gives a Blockade Runner a small chance of getting away if locked, which is actually REALLY hard to do if you are instantly ON your Cloak-button hitting. And the Deep Space Transports....I hang an additional 3 Warp stabs to give it Warp +5 wich would need a combined +6 from a few ships........can happen but unikely if you re performing the Cloak/MWD trick successfully. Pretty much Focused Interdiction is the only reason to get caught with that fit. Just my 2 ISK worth from a year of doing this and NEVER losing a T2 Transport. ************************ "God is nothing but the power of the Universe, as a whole, to organize itself." - Lee Smolin Three Roads to Quantum Gravity**
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat	Posted - 2011.08.25 23:57:00 - [32] Note that a jammer can get you killed in lowsec by gate guns, and prevent you from using gates.
Substantia Nigra	Posted - 2011.08.26 01:30:00 - [33] I do have some expertise at being suicide ganked, as well as considerable experience at not being suicide ganked. Here's the stuff I do ... 1.Never autopilot while carrying a load of significant value* ... even flying manual in a slow aligning ship exposes you to suicide ganking risk. 2.For very small, high value loads (e.g. sleeper blue books, PLEX etc) I use a covops frigate ... no tank at all but relying on small sig radius and ability to (virtually always) instantly cloak after gate jump. 3.For slightly larger high value loads I use a blockade runner. I donÆt fit mine with cargohold expansion rigs or mods ... but use nav rigs / mods throughout. 4.For larger loads again I use freighter. I have also used orca which can be faster if MWD-fit but it doesn't nearly match a freighter's cargo capacity. If it's worth more than a couple of billion and won't fit in blockade runner, or orca hangar, then I will usually split it up and make more than one trip. 5.Secure containers and courier contracts# to reduce the scanner visibility of high value goods that can be fit into secure contaienrs. Of course some gankers may see this and decide that if it's worth that effort then it's probably worth their effort to gank. Similarly, unless it's been nerfed with the recent update, the corporate hangar of an orca cannot be scanned to determine its contents. 6.Alternative routes. My home bases are in minmatar space and the shortest hisec route takes me thru the pirate gauntlet of Deltole etc. There are a number of longer but much safer hisec routes that approach metropolis / heimatar via the Ammatar Mandate rather than Sinq Liaison. There may well be other alternatives for the other market centers. Freighters are painfully slow, but if it's a very high value load I don't mind an extra half dozen - dozen jumps for the extra safety ... I'm usually doing something else on another screen anyways. * It's your call as to what you consider valuable. If the gankers will make more isk from killing you than they will lose in having their ships CONCORDed then you are a very real target for them. # Put the items into secure container(s) then make a courier contract to yourself for the transport of those containers. Accept the contract (I do this via corp), haul the items, and then finish the contract at your destination.
Sluzzytimes	Posted - 2011.08.26 01:31:00 - [34] for scrubs iteron mark 3 spaceship command 5, evasive maneuvers 5, 5% inertia implant 3 medium low frictions 3 inertia stab II's
Mem Moriaty	Posted - 2011.08.26 13:48:00 - [35] For very high value stuff with low volume (aka bpos, scap bpcs etc) use a passive tanked cloaky t3. Even if something locks you, your tanks will prevent you from getting alphaed and its also a foolproof method to survive smartbomb gankers. Also with gravitational capacitor subsystem a tengu for example warps 5,5 au per second which is quite fast actually.
Thomas Turnpoint	Posted - 2011.08.26 19:14:00 - [36] I have a couple questions regarding instant undocking 1. If there is nothing to align to from a station, how far would need to travel in order to create a good warp to location (i.e. more than 150km)? 2. It's my understanding that when you jump through a gate, you are always facing the exact same direction when you get into the new system. If this is so, would it be of similar use to create bookmarks to allow you to get away from the gate more expediently before aligning to the next gate? __________________________ Obi-wan only felt that way about Mos Eisley because he'd never played Eve Online

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