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Frau Klaps
Amarr
   |
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:48:00 -
[1]
In a really good episode of Star Trek Voyager, the holo doctor (who never gets an actual name) is confronted by a rather difficult choice. To save the life of a crew member he has to use the research made by a man who acquired his results through unethical ways, by experimenting on unwilling patients. The doctor reasons that if he decides to use those research results, that would be like justifying the means in which they were acquired, and decides that he has to find another way.
The question here is; would it be ok to use something which has been acquired in unethical ways, even if it's for something "good" (definable of course)?
First of all I'd like to say that I don't agree with the Doctor in this episode. I don't think that using unethically acquired research in anyway has to justify the means in which they were acquired. I usually apply a simple "what would I want" to any moral questions, and I would of course not want to be part of any freak experiment against my will. But if the harm was already done, I think I would prefer the results to be used to save lives rather than be discarded. This doesn't mean that getting the research in this way was ok in any way. Besides, how much of our knowledge today doesn't origin in research which has been acquired in what we'd today consider rather unethical? We improve, not by discarding our mistakes, but by learning from them and finding new ways to get understanding about things.
So anyway, now that I've made that clear I'd like to make a further point. This kind of dilemma can be found in a game like EVE too. People behave unethically all the time (unethical as in alot of people don't agree that it is a good behavior) which I have mentioned in some posts before. I can think of two good examples and I'd like to ask you what you'd do to handle them, if at all.
The AFK Cloaker
It has become something of a standing joke in our intel channel (and surely of other coalitions too) to report AFK cloakers. Although many of them probably aren't AFK'd at all, I am sure a lot of them are. And if someone admits to being AFK ganked, aka killed while ratting in my system, would you have any second thoughts as to petitioning it at all?
I will go against what I just say here and say that it is wrong. In doing this, you might not justify the behavior, but you'd definitely encourage it. People see that they can actually kill their enemis, which is the very reason they AFK'd in the first place. Kinda like stolen art. If you buy stolen items, you encourage the whole idea of stealing items to profit from them. But you want the ISK of course and the ninjaing has already been done, so would it be so wrong? The difference to the example with unethical research in the "real world" is that us players have very little power against taking action towards players who go AFK, whereas I hope that governments around the world have more power to prevent unethical espionage from taking place (but maybe I am nanve). EVE is based on such a big part on mutual trust and the will for everyone to be kind to everyone else, that there isn't much we can do but govern our own actions. Only the GM's have the final say.
Again, our only way to affect other people in a game like EVE is by making clear that we don't accept that kind of behavior. We can't throw them into jail (ban their accounts) or take what they stole away from them, so the only way we can hope to change that behavior by setting our foot down and say "we don't want anything to do with people like you" (and petition a GM and hope for something to happen). That is, if we can be arsed.
The problem with any system that allows players to report unethical behavior is that it can, and will, be abused. A game like EVE is somewhat similiar to real life in this way too. We have to go to the "police" (GM's) when we have an issue and then wait for their bureaucracy to take its time before something might happen.
continues...
~~~
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Frau Klaps
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:48:00 -
[2]
...continued
Like I mentioned in my post about AFK cloakers, CCP doesn't think it's big enough of a problem to put man power enough into it to make sure people stop doing it. And unethical behavior overall really isn't much of a problem, yet. But when people get away with it so easily, they won't be able to stop themselves from doing it (or so it seems anyway). And maybe that means we need a little social courage to step in.
~~~
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Jackson Millenius
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Posted - 2011.08.18 17:53:00 -
[3]
'But I don't want to go among mad people,' said Alice. 'Oh, you can't help that,' said the cat. 'We're all mad here.' |
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:55:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Tippia on 18/08/2011 18:03:27
Subverting intel is not unethical.
Subverting an game mechanic that has been been corrupted into becoming an intel tool rather than a tool of communication is a good thing, because that means this unintentional, and accidentally overpowered tool has a counter and some kind of balancing factor working against it.
Not only is AFK cloaking not unethical ù it's the duty of the righteous! 
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki
|
Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 17:58:00 -
[5]
Longest pure troll post of the week.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:01:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Feligast
Longest pure troll post of the week.
This.
Hiya bud, hope you are well. 
Originally by: CCP Zulu
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Frau Klaps
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Feligast
Longest pure troll post of the week.
This.
Hiya bud, hope you are well.
The whole world's trolling when you dislike what someone has to say 
~~~
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:08:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 18/08/2011 18:08:50
Ah Voyager, where allowing genocide on a planetary scale is an acceptable solution to "we didn't want to get our hands dirty". Truly the best place to seek moral advice.
---
|
Shepard Book
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:16:00 -
[9]
Cloaking is not the problem. Local being used as a free warning someone is in your system is. Local is being removed along with this concern IMO.
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Jackson Millenius
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Posted - 2011.08.18 18:19:00 -
[10]
Wait a minute.....
There is no such thing as an episode of star trek voyager!
'But I don't want to go among mad people,' said Alice. 'Oh, you can't help that,' said the cat. 'We're all mad here.' |
Frau Klaps
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:19:00 -
[11]
Use of local is a level playing field and hardly unethical. Cloaking gives advantage to the hunter who can swoop in at any time and generates a negative environment of oppression for anyone trying to be productive in that space.
~~~
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Tartarek
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:22:00 -
[12]
Question: If someone is AFK cloaked, and there is no local to warn you of them, are they still there?
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DNSBLACK
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.08.18 18:22:00 -
[13]
OMG you are an nut job. Yummy tears you peice of work. call the GM police really you can be serious. iam going to file a petition against you be exploiting and pretending you have brain. Please go away
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Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
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Posted - 2011.08.18 18:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
Use of local is a level playing field and hardly unethical. Cloaking gives advantage to the hunter who can swoop in at any time and generates a negative environment of oppression for anyone trying to be productive in that space.
Perhaps the AFK cloaker feels that using that space is indeed unethical. If not for AFK cloakers whom would stand up for the rights of our little NPC friends? Whom would stop unethical ore theft by miners whom strip away the natural resources of asteroids belts in deep space?
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.18 18:40:00 -
[15]
You are in a group of people that kill people for a living, and you think AFK cloaking is "unethical".
Kudos, you have taken bias to a whole new level.
.
Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.08.18 18:41:00 -
[16]
Bloody hell another spank alt whose forum ban has expired
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Frau Klaps
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.08.18 18:42:00 -
[17]
We do not 'kill people for a living' and this is a PVP game so I don't understand what your issue is.
~~~
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Carver DiGriz
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.08.18 18:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
... and this is a PVP game so I don't understand what your issue is.
backatcha, buddy
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Darrius Actionman
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Posted - 2011.08.18 18:50:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Although many of them probably aren't AFK'd at all, I am sure a lot of them are.
Pick one and stick with it. Many of them aren't AFK, but a lot of them are? So you're saying it's about 50/50?
Your mathematics are invalid. Go directly to the calculator. Do not pass "Go," do not collect 200 repetitive post points.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.18 18:53:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
We do not 'kill people for a living' and this is a PVP game so I don't understand what your issue is.
Not understanding is actually a prerequisite of ignorance, working as intended. I don't have any issues about AFK cloaking, it is also working as intended.
.
Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
|
Frau Klaps
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Frau Klaps
We do not 'kill people for a living' and this is a PVP game so I don't understand what your issue is.
Not understanding is actually a prerequisite of ignorance, working as intended. I don't have any issues about AFK cloaking, it is also working as intended.
Looking at your forum history I can assure you shiptoasting still works as intended. The intention being to make you looks stupid. Get out of my thread.
~~~
|
Mistah Ewedynao
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 18:58:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Feligast
Longest pure troll post of the week.
Longest Goon intellectual discourse of the month
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Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:00:00 -
[23]
Actually, the Doctor names himself 'Joe' in the final episode.
Lieutenant Paris expresses considerable disbelief at this revelation.
-----------------------------------------------
"I have not problem with prostitute, but the kiddy dools is to much for me" - Orcan |
Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:03:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mistah Ewedynao
Originally by: Feligast
Longest pure troll post of the week.
Longest Goon intellectual discourse of the month
umad?
|
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Frau Klaps
We do not 'kill people for a living' and this is a PVP game so I don't understand what your issue is.
Not understanding is actually a prerequisite of ignorance, working as intended. I don't have any issues about AFK cloaking, it is also working as intended.
Looking at your forum history I can assure you shiptoasting still works as intended. The intention being to make you looks stupid. Get out of my thread.
Nice non sequitur.
Please lets get this thread back on topic, which is the opinion that AFK cloaking is unethical.
Quote:
Adj.1.unethical- not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior; "unethical business practices"
Explain how you feel AFK cloaking conforms to this description.
.
Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
|
Frau Klaps
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:16:00 -
[26]
I am not a primary school teacher. Go read up on the key issues of the subject if this discussion is too advanced for you.
~~~
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:23:00 -
[27]
Wait a second... did Lady Spank get a character rename or is this just a copycat ?
Can't say the name is much of an improvement though
_
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
I am not a primary school teacher. Go read up on the key issues of the subject if this discussion is too advanced for you.
Secondary school teacher?
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Bklyn 1
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:24:00 -
[29]
Pardon me, but he's not a holo doctor, he's an EMH - Emergency Medical Hologram
|
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:27:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
Pardon me, but he's not a holo doctor, he's an EMH - Emergency Medical Hologram
His name is Joe
and
Quote:
Wait a second... did Lady Spank get a character rename or is this just a copycat ?
Can't say the name is much of an improvement though
People have these things called alts, you know. Some of us more than others, I daresay
-----------------------------------------------
"I have not problem with prostitute, but the kiddy dools is to much for me" - Orcan |
Cynoska McNamara
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:32:00 -
[31]
Pirates want the local chat removed and cloacking devices as is.
Citizens (miners, PvErs, productors, patrollers) want local chat as is and cloacking devices nerfed.
In a civilized society, are laws and rules made for citizens or criminals?
If a pirate is unable to adapt to the difficulties, it is not a good pirate, but just another Average Pirate Joe.
|
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:33:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Bklyn 1
Pardon me, but he's not a holo doctor, he's an EMH - Emergency Medical Hologram
He's also not a doorstop.
Well, perhaps not in the case of Joe, but the program in general.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki
|
Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:39:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Pirates want the local chat removed and cloacking devices as is.
Citizens (miners, PvErs, productors, patrollers) want local chat as is and cloacking devices nerfed.
In a civilized society, are laws and rules made for citizens or criminals?
If a pirate is unable to adapt to the difficulties, it is not a good pirate, but just another Average Pirate Joe.
Yet if the Miners & PVER's can't adapt then what are they? Less than average Joe?
For the record I'm happy the way things are in regard to local & cloaking. If anything I'd only want to see a delayed local rather than no local. I think no local will only encourage gate camps and will be a nerf to small gang PVP for anything other than playing Gank-a-Bear.
No local would mean easier ganking of soft targets but will be a nerf to small gangs looking for actual fights.
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Jackson Millenius
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:39:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
In a civilized society, are laws and rules made for citizens or criminals?
The laws and rules are there to maintain the powers that be.
Removal of the local channel would be a stupid idea, but delaying it by say 2-5 minutes would be epic.
'But I don't want to go among mad people,' said Alice. 'Oh, you can't help that,' said the cat. 'We're all mad here.' |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:12:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gorki Andropov
Quote:
Wait a second... did Lady Spank get a character rename or is this just a copycat ?
Can't say the name is much of an improvement though
People have these things called alts, you know. Some of us more than others, I daresay
Sarcasm detector needs more fine-tuning ?
_
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
Gramps Pank
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:13:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Gorki Andropov
Quote:
Wait a second... did Lady Spank get a character rename or is this just a copycat ?
Can't say the name is much of an improvement though
People have these things called alts, you know. Some of us more than others, I daresay
Sarcasm detector needs more fine-tuning ?
You forgot to use sarc tags.
* Your signature has been locked due to profanity. Please recreate a signature that follows the forum rules and file a petition - Fallout |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:14:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gramps Pank
You forgot to use sarc tags.
He wouldn't need a detector for that 
_
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
Xiozor
THE PAROXYSM
Dark Solar Empire
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:24:00 -
[38]
Modern scientists answered that with all the **** medical research they jumped on after World War II which was obtained in a variety of "interesting" ways, such as the precise measurements over the affects of hypothermia on humans we have.
Sure, it shouldn't have been done. But don't see it as "Using it justifies those people's suffering."
Rather,
"Not using it means those people suffered for the good of no one."
-----------------------------------------------
Mr.Kippling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries! ... But he does make exceedingly good cakes. |
nubile slave
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:27:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
Use of local is a level playing field and hardly unethical. Cloaking gives advantage to the hunter who can swoop in at any time and generates a negative environment of oppression for anyone trying to be productive in that space.
Growing a pair is usually the best response....
|
Ataxio
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:42:00 -
[40]
Only newbs & the unprepared get ganked by "afk cloakers" Hundreds of thousands of replies to threads like these instructing the clueless OPs about how to proceed when cloakers are in system seem to have no effect.
There is simply put nothing wrong with cloaking mechanics the way they are. If you are solo ratting with a neut or hostile in system, that's your own fault for being stupid.
|
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Eternal Evocations
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ataxio
Only newbs & the unprepared get ganked by "afk cloakers" Hundreds of thousands of replies to threads like these instructing the clueless OPs about how to proceed when cloakers are in system seem to have no effect.
There is simply put nothing wrong with cloaking mechanics the way they are. If you are solo ratting with a neut or hostile in system, that's your own fault for being stupid.
There was nothing wrong with bumping mechanics until Goons went around in fleets of shuttles harassing freighter pilots for weeks until CCP nerfed bumping (or so I'm told).
There is nothing wrong with cloaking nor AFK cloaking, but I guarantee you if someone took it upon themselves to place an AFK cloaker in every system in an entire 0.0 region for six months straight, a nerf would soon follow.
It is all about frequency, magnitude, and exploitation. Many game mechanics are perfectly valid until people figure out they can exploit them in ways they were never intended, and en masse.
You say, do not rat in a system with an AFK cloaker, what if every system had one? You are okay with hypotheticals right, categorical imperatives and the like? So you understand that something can seem valid so long as it is not universalized, right?
Now, CCP are no moral authorities nor ethical geniuses, but they are still quite clever, and if AFK cloaking becomes enough of an issue, they will take action, until then please do not confuse ethics and morality.
Ethics are sets of social laws that apply to finite systems, like EVE, it is indeed a far stretch to argue morality in a video game, but ethics ARE present in this game, and CCP freely and oftentimes rightly exercises ethical principles on the space we play in, to balance and prevent exploitation, deemed unethical by nature, such as the Goons example I provided, which was unethical within the game environment itself as it exploited a perfectly valid mechanic in ways it was never intended to be used.
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Feligast
Longest pure troll post of the week.
This.
Hiya bud, hope you are well.
The whole world's trolling when you dislike what someone has to say
I wouldn't know if I disliked it bud, I didn't read it.
Originally by: CCP Zulu
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
BigCock RandyMountain
Gallente
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Frau Klaps
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Feligast
Longest pure troll post of the week.
This.
Hiya bud, hope you are well.
The whole world's trolling when you dislike what someone has to say
I wouldn't know if I disliked it bud, I didn't read it.
How will you get trolled if you don't read it?
~~~
|
bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:05:00 -
[44]
oh, this a total new one 
0/10
|
Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:08:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Frau Klaps
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Feligast
Longest pure troll post of the week.
This.
Hiya bud, hope you are well.
The whole world's trolling when you dislike what someone has to say
I wouldn't know if I disliked it bud, I didn't read it.
Ah, don't listen to Frau Klaps, my friend, it got smacked with the banhammer. Hope you're well too!
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Big**** RandyMountain
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Frau Klaps
The whole world's trolling when you dislike what someone has to say
I wouldn't know if I disliked it bud, I didn't read it.
How will you get trolled if you don't read it?
I could get the wife to read it, I guess.
Originally by: CCP Zulu
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
BigCock RandyMountain
Gallente
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:10:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Feligast
Ah, don't listen to Frau Klaps, my friend, it got smacked with the banhammer. Hope you're well too!
Wrong
~~~
|
Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:14:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Feligast on 18/08/2011 21:14:16
Originally by: Big**** RandyMountain
Originally by: Feligast
Ah, don't listen to Frau Klaps, my friend, it got smacked with the banhammer. Hope you're well too!
Wrong
Wrong
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1567281
|
Shartifartblast
Minmatar
In Praise Of Shadows
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:16:00 -
[49]
Just a mistake that is soon to be smoothed out.
~~~
|
Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:19:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Grimpak on 18/08/2011 21:19:06
if there's something I learned throughout my life is that history taught me that ethics are relative.
also, this is a goddamn game. **** ethics.
so the point of this post is... what again?
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:24:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
Again, our only way to affect other people in a game like EVE is by making clear that we don't accept that kind of behavior.
I do not accept your kind of whining on the forums behavior. Now go away.
...
Did it work?
|
Black Dranzer
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:31:00 -
[52]
With the way people go on, you'd think nullsec was designed to be an incredibly dangerous place or something.
|
Master Hu
Caldari
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:39:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
We do not 'kill people for a living' ...
Then you are doing it wrong. Running a locator agent as we speak and sending afk cloakers to each of your traveled systems.
|
BigCock RandyMountain
Gallente
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:43:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Master Hu
Originally by: Frau Klaps
We do not 'kill people for a living' ...
Then you are doing it wrong. Running a locator agent as we speak and sending afk cloakers to each of your traveled systems.
We do it for fun.
~~~
|
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 21:46:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
I am not a primary school teacher. Go read up on the key issues of the subject if this discussion is too advanced for you.
I was asking you how you figured it was unethical. I already understand that its not, and posted the definition for your benefit.
.
Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
|
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 22:24:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tartarek
Question: If someone is AFK cloaked, and there is no local to warn you of them, are they still there?
This
And what if he doesn't see you either? |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 22:35:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
In a civilized society, are laws and rules made for citizens or criminals?
Wait, the physics behind clocking devices are now subject to the laws and rules of citizens?
--
please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately. |
OMGFRIGATES WARPOUT
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 22:41:00 -
[58]
Edited by: OMGFRIGATES WARPOUT on 18/08/2011 22:46:05
Originally by: DNSBLACK
OMG you are an nut job.
With all due respect sir...and remember that I did say with all due respect.
**** you right in the goat ass.
|
Cynoska McNamara
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 23:05:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Karak Terrel
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
In a civilized society, are laws and rules made for citizens or criminals?
Wait, the physics behind clocking devices are now subject to the laws and rules of citizens?
Don't talk me about physic in an under-water game like EVE.
CCP is the God that rules the physics.
God listens EVE community.
Patches are his miracles.
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Vilidri
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Posted - 2011.08.18 23:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Karak Terrel
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
In a civilized society, are laws and rules made for citizens or criminals?
Wait, the physics behind clocking devices are now subject to the laws and rules of citizens?
Clocking devices are be re-geared ;o)
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Catheryn Martobi
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Posted - 2011.08.19 00:19:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Jackson Millenius
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
In a civilized society, are laws and rules made for citizens or criminals?
The laws and rules are there to maintain the powers that be.
Removal of the local channel would be a stupid idea, but delaying it by say 2-5 minutes would be epic.
Nope, then the advantage goes to the hunter. You could enter a system, see everyone who has been there for 5+ minutes and go to work, then the people who were there would be none the wiser.
I want WH local in null/low
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Zixie Draco
The Queue
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2011.08.19 00:43:00 -
[62]
..interesting observation Herr Fraulein...what is also ironic, is that just last night I watched the Star Trek Next Generation episode where Worf's spinal column was replaced by a doctor who also practiced unethical renegade witchdoctory. These are strange times at hand indeed.
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Lady 21
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Posted - 2011.08.19 01:10:00 -
[63]
Originally by: DNSBLACK
OMG you are an nut job. Yummy tears you peice of work. call the GM police really you can be serious. iam going to file a petition against you be exploiting and pretending you have brain. Please go away
coming from DNS, the kinds of cloaky bull!@#! :)
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Clolo
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.08.19 01:17:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Lady 21
Originally by: DNSBLACK
OMG you are an nut job. Yummy tears you peice of work. call the GM police really you can be serious. iam going to file a petition against you be exploiting and pretending you have brain. Please go away
coming from DNS, the kinds of cloaky bull!@#! :)
null
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Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
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Posted - 2011.08.19 01:28:00 -
[65]
I'll be the first to admit... I'm unethical, Amoral, and Untrustworthy.
That's EvE, gameplay as intended. There are many ways that you can easily defend against me in your system. Shedding tears in the Forums is not one of them.
your Tears are all the pay I'm looking for, Thank you.
________________________________
I want a button that will force you to undock out of the station so I can shoot you.
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zulrock
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Posted - 2011.08.19 02:36:00 -
[66]
wait someone actually watched star trek voyager, my theory was unless there was a kitchen on the bridge there was no reason a woman should be captain. but more to your point......THIS IS FING EVE, if you cant defend your space and deal with an afk cloaker then go back to high sec, just cause it has your name on dotlan doesnt mean its yours unless you can defend it.
Everything in eve costs what people will pay for it, no ones going to hold your hand, grow a pair and fleet up
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Jerry Pepridge
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Posted - 2011.08.19 04:36:00 -
[67]
Posting in a hypocrit thread.
"solo pvp warrior"
"Coalition"
_________________________________________________
7 Easy steps |
Angsty Teenager
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Posted - 2011.08.19 04:41:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jerry Pepridge
Posting in a hypocrit thread.
"solo pvp warrior"
"Coalition"
Posting to confirm that jarry here is an alt of OP.
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Suppen Kasper
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:33:00 -
[69]
epic troll thread
0/10 etc
seriously... how is afk cloaking unethical ? u rant about "ethics" and still have no idea what it actually means. so u want ur precious 0.0 carebearspace MORE safe than it already is (0.0 is actually the safest place in new eden, surrounded by gigantic blobs of blue)
thats surely the only reason u donate such a large amount of tears to the forums. damn 0.0 carebears, unable to adapt, and think on their own. soon u want cloaking removed from the game, cynos,and whs dont spawn in conquered 0.0 space, and when we are at it, lets change jumpgates so only blues can enter ur system. yes that will make u totally safe from any harm, so rainbows start shining from ur ass und u can live in peace and harmony in ur 0.0 carebearparadise.
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Gramps Pank
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:35:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Suppen Kasper
epic troll thread
0/10 etc
seriously... how is afk cloaking unethical ? u rant about "ethics" and still have no idea what it actually means. so u want ur precious 0.0 carebearspace MORE safe than it already is (0.0 is actually the safest place in new eden, surrounded by gigantic blobs of blue)
thats surely the only reason u donate such a large amount of tears to the forums. damn 0.0 carebears, unable to adapt, and think on their own. soon u want cloaking removed from the game, cynos,and whs dont spawn in conquered 0.0 space, and when we are at it, lets change jumpgates so only blues can enter ur system. yes that will make u totally safe from any harm, so rainbows start shining from ur ass und u can live in peace and harmony in ur 0.0 carebearparadise.
I like how you rate the troll 0/10, then proceed to bite by taking the post seriously.
You are not very good at this.
* Your signature has been locked due to profanity. Please recreate a signature that follows the forum rules and file a petition - Fallout |
Suppen Kasper
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:37:00 -
[71]
OP ALT DETECTED
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Camden Sine
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:40:00 -
[72]
I get it, you don't like force recons.
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Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:47:00 -
[73]
...every time I cloak now I feel dirty... OH WELL.
ROMULANS FOREVER! Cloaky Cloaky is paranoia, it destroyah!!!... oh wait that was a monster in a Godzilla movie!
DESTROYAH!!! - fun to say... yea.
...and missile turrets must be introduced...
______________
Effete Noir - a wonderful virtual cologne for the discerning Pod-Pilot - 4500 Aur - BUY. |
Adonis Peverell
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Posted - 2011.08.19 06:00:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Valentina Valentia
...every time I cloak now I feel dirty... OH WELL.
ROMULANS FOREVER! Cloaky Cloaky is paranoia, it destroyah!!!... oh wait that was a monster in a Godzilla movie!
DESTROYAH!!! - fun to say... yea.
...and missile turrets must be introduced...
Now now, I think you're unfairly excluding the Klingons here. They also practice AFK cloaking.
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.08.19 06:33:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
...continued
Like I mentioned in my post about AFK cloakers, CCP doesn't think it's big enough of a problem to put man power enough into it to make sure people stop doing it.
You do realize you're being ignored for 2 reasons:
1) CCP dev's are working on the NEX store so that they can continue to make a great NEX store.
2) CCP leadership ignores what you say and only pays attention to what you do.
...so what are you going to do about it?
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Barricade Dark
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Posted - 2011.08.19 06:54:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Diablo Ex
I'll be the first to admit... I'm unethical, Amoral, and Untrustworthy.
That's EvE, gameplay as intended. There are many ways that you can easily defend against me in your system. Shedding tears in the Forums is not one of them.
your Tears are all the pay I'm looking for, Thank you.
A-****ing-men
You can keep the ISK, I'm in it for the tears and the nerd rage!
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Kai Jyokoroi
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.19 08:28:00 -
[77]
How on earth is AFK cloaking a problem? Rat in another system!
Also lol at the idea of a game mechanic - any game mechanic in any game - being "unethical"
----------------------
GIEF MISSL |
Cynoska McNamara
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Posted - 2011.08.19 08:46:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 19/08/2011 08:47:50
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 19/08/2011 08:47:00
Originally by: Diablo Ex
I'll be the first to admit... I'm unethical, Amoral, and Untrustworthy.
That's EvE, gameplay as intended. There are many ways that you can easily defend against me in your system. Shedding tears in the Forums is not one of them.
your Tears are all the pay I'm looking for, Thank you.
What I see is a group of trembling pirates fighting together to avoid a nerf that would make them cry.
And your best weapon is the insult, denigration and a solution just for them profitable.
Should I spend my life in system to spam the SCAN button looking for pirates? Scouts should spend your life to see every single activation gate. BORINGLAND. The 0.0 will be empty, nothing more to destroy. You will be alone in your nothing. Everyone in empire disabling accounts. This is your best solution? You really are pirates.
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AFK Cloaker
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.08.19 09:03:00 -
[79]
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Jin Endashi
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Posted - 2011.08.19 09:07:00 -
[80]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
dock up he's back!
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Kaomond
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Posted - 2011.08.19 09:10:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Frau Klaps
teh Doctor (who never gets an actual name)
Actually he had many names.
Starfleet did not assign a name and initially the Doctor maintained that he did not want one. Later, he adopted such names as 'Schmullus' (by a Vidiian patient), 'Schweitzer' (after Albert Schweitzer), 'Van Gogh', 'Kenneth', 'Jones', and several others. The captioned dialog of early episodes, and early promotional material for the series' premiere, referred to him as 'Dr. Zimmerman', after his creator, Lewis Zimmerman. In the series finale, a future is shown where he has chosen the name "Joe."
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Kayla Dawn
Caldari
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:15:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Lady 21
Originally by: DNSBLACK
OMG you are an nut job. Yummy tears you peice of work. call the GM police really you can be serious. iam going to file a petition against you be exploiting and pretending you have brain. Please go away
coming from DNS, the kinds of cloaky bull!@#! :)
If more than one member of that DNS crowd shows up in your system you don't have to worry about us being cloaked so don't worry about it.. ;)
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Nautsyn Thome
Minmatar
Shark Investments
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:41:00 -
[83]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
He wins this thread.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:37:00 -
[84]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
I missed you, you were long overdue m8
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Weyerbacher
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Posted - 2011.08.19 12:07:00 -
[85]
I'm AFK Cloaked in this thread.
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Ceelah
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Posted - 2011.08.19 12:10:00 -
[86]
EVE is a game. A game. Every time you use the word "ethical" in this forum you deserve to have someone new jump into your local and cloak up.
Go to this thread and read. Weep. Learn to EVE.
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Eight Sinn
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Posted - 2011.08.19 14:44:00 -
[87]
Because in space hundreds of light years across, it's logical to know every single person that is in it the second they are in it. Personally AFK cloaking makes space what it truly is. LARGE. UNKNOWN.
Getting rid of local could possibly be the best thing CCP could ever do for this game.
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Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Eternal Evocations
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Posted - 2011.08.19 15:13:00 -
[88]
Guys, ethics have nothing to do with morality and right or wrong, they have to do with laws put in place by closed societies in order to dictate what is and is not legal in and of itself.
CCP does this every day, what do you think the EULA is? It is a set of ethical laws that we must all follow, whatever you do under the EULA that does not break the EULA, is ethical by definition.
That is how ethics work. Morality is an entirely different beast and I am am always shocked when so many people grossly misunderstand the very clear difference.
Very few things are immoral, many things are unethical.
Murder is immoral.
But the drinking age, is an ethical law, which varies from country to country.
Drinking a beer at the age of 19 when the legal limit is 21 is not immoral, it is unethical, it only becomes immoral when you run someone over in your car while intoxicated.
In the same way that CCP declares it unethical for a player to run a botting program, they could just as well declare it unethical to cloak up in a system for the sole purpose of harassing players twelve hours a day.
The only difference here is that we all know that will never happen, if anything, they will simply change the mechanic so it is not nearly as possible as it was before.
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Raneru
Combat and Recon
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Posted - 2011.08.19 15:20:00 -
[89]
The AFK cloaker problem has more to do with peoples greed than threat of a single cloaked ship. People want to be able to make isk solo in 0.0 so they don't have to share the profits with anyone else and an AFK cloaker in system makes this hard to do. If you actually worked as a team with other players the threat goes away and you can continue making isk, just at a slightly slower rate.
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Dismus
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.08.19 15:26:00 -
[90]
LOUD NOISES!!!!!
Frau, did you put your brain in backwards or something before posting that? As you've no doubt already been told, he's not a doctor. He's an Emergency Medical Hologram. If you can't get your facts straight, how are we supposed to take you seriously? Geez... kids these days.
Originally by: Draeca
Domi isn't ugly, it actually looks quite symphatic.
I mean, a crossbreed of a whale and a potato.. Now how cute is that?
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Tcar
Minmatar
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.08.19 15:32:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Tcar on 19/08/2011 15:32:33
Originally by: Frau Klaps
Again, our only way to affect other people in a game like EVE is by making clear that we don't accept that kind of behavior. We can't throw them into jail (ban their accounts) or take what they stole away from them, so the only way we can hope to change that behavior by setting our foot down and say "we don't want anything to do with people like you" (and petition a GM and hope for something to happen). That is, if we can be arsed.
The problem with any system that allows players to report unethical behavior is that it can, and will, be abused. A game like EVE is somewhat similiar to real life in this way too. We have to go to the "police" (GM's) when we have an issue and then wait for their bureaucracy to take its time before something might happen.
continues...
. . tears. . so delicious.
Since CCP says scamming is OK, I doubt your crackpot idea about AFK cloaking being unethical is worth two squirts of yak urine.
Stop whining with wall of text, grow a pair. If you can't grow a pair, then leave the area. Go run L4's in high sec.
Cloaking ships are like a nuclear sub. You know he's out there, you're not sure where, but if he finds you you're in for rough butt seks.
HTFU or go play another game.
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Big Penos Burdette
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Posted - 2011.08.19 15:37:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Big Penos Burdette on 19/08/2011 15:37:53
Go put frau klaps into google translate then try to take the original post seriously.
EDIT: Or don't, google translate fails. I'm sure you can figure it out anyway.
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Bklyn 1
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Posted - 2011.08.19 16:07:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Adonis Peverell
Originally by: Valentina Valentia
...every time I cloak now I feel dirty... OH WELL.
ROMULANS FOREVER! Cloaky Cloaky is paranoia, it destroyah!!!... oh wait that was a monster in a Godzilla movie!
DESTROYAH!!! - fun to say... yea.
...and missile turrets must be introduced...
Now now, I think you're unfairly excluding the Klingons here. They also practice AFK cloaking.
Neither seemed to be afk though
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Serismas
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Posted - 2011.08.19 19:17:00 -
[94]
brb....
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Dalloway Jones
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.08.19 19:22:00 -
[95]
I CAN NOT wait for all my Cov ops skills to be trained. First thing I am going to do is go down to null and AFK cloak for a few days. So sick of all these whiny carebear null residents crying about this.
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Kengutsi Akira
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Posted - 2011.08.19 19:37:00 -
[96]
havent even read the OP
HA ethics in EVE youre so cute
------------------------------------
"You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass" |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.08.19 19:47:00 -
[97]
If cloaking is unethical it should void insurance payout if you get blown up. So, remove insurance for cloakers to discourage the practice.
-
[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Space Hog
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.08.20 01:18:00 -
[98]
I think the proper use of CCP's time is for a IQ test to be taken after the subscription money has been paid, if you fail you don't get to play.
You sir FAIL!
I mean REALLY, REALLY. AFK cloakers are unethical? Ok I want to give you some hints that may help in preventing attacks from AFK Cloakers.
1. Bubble your gate if you are carebearing it up.
2. Watch local and should there be a neutral or red, assume they are awake and not AFK. (Thus it is an awake cloaker)
3. Um scouts
4. Or go back to High Sec, as the afk cloaking really doesn't affect mission runners unless of course you are in a wardec.
5. Don't Tackle the Arazu!
Ok here is the banter part. Really did you sit at McDonalds all day flipping burgers and think that when you get home this issue should really be addressed? First if it was even an issue, its only one for those that are lazy and ignore the cloaker. Another thing, comparing this to Star Trek! Really!? Ok in Star Trek you had ships that could cloak. And as you sit reading this in your Captain Picard uniform, please come up with a realistic issue.
And to answer your one real question: Originally by: Frau Klaps
(but maybe I am nanve)
The answer is YES! You are!
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.08.20 01:19:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Barakkus
If cloaking is unethical it should void insurance payout if you get blown up. So, remove insurance for cloakers to discourage the practice.
Only if they get blown up while cloaked and afk.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
CoReSol
Minmatar
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.08.20 02:40:00 -
[100]
What about scamming, corporate theft, piracy, etc etc?
Seriously, you need to understand that CCP ENCOURAGES "Unethical" behavior (Minus hacking and what not). If they were to ban players for AFK cloaking, imagine what else in this game you could be banned for, certainly wouldn't be 40k+ players logged in daily. It would turn into more of a super happy fun time rainbow care bear land than it already is.
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Wu Tarot
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Posted - 2011.08.20 02:45:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Barakkus
If cloaking is unethical it should void insurance payout if you get blown up. So, remove insurance for cloakers to discourage the practice.
...but keep it for suicide bombers :D
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.08.20 02:50:00 -
[102]
crai more spanky
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Wu Tarot
|
Posted - 2011.08.20 02:56:00 -
[103]
He...
Took...
Mai...
TRIKEY!!!!
WAAAAAH
Tho in this case its killmail but same diff
damn but the one thing I miss from the old new boards (other than the security issues bwa ha haaa) is not waiting 2 mins between posts :p
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Gramps Pank
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Posted - 2011.08.20 04:29:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Ghoest
crai more spanky
More? but I haven't started yet
* Your signature has been locked due to profanity. Please recreate a signature that follows the forum rules and file a petition - Fallout |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.08.20 04:34:00 -
[105]
This is indeed worthy of popcorn
♫ When your ship gets blown to bits
♫ And you lose your Faction fits
\☻/ Don't worry ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫
♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ Be Happy \☻/ |
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