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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 01:46:00 -
[1]
Why would players wanna buy the Sleeper loot drops for more than the NPC buy order prices... I see them all over The Forge for more than the NPC buy orders... I don't get how this makes any sense at all...
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Coffe's Babe
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.19 02:05:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Coffe''s Babe on 19/08/2011 02:05:52
It does NOT make sense for you how NPC's and the prices they offer are worse than the ones players do? What game have you been playing so far? EvE Offline?
So if sex with 3 people is called a threesome and sex between 2 people is called a twosome, why is handsome still a compliment? |
Scout1111
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Posted - 2011.08.19 02:11:00 -
[3]
Isk laundering.
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 03:03:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Coffe's Babe
Edited by: Coffe''s Babe on 19/08/2011 02:05:52
It does NOT make sense for you how NPC's and the prices they offer are worse than the ones players do? What game have you been playing so far? EvE Offline?
Why would players want these items... thats the whole question behind this post. Aren't they only good for 1 thing in the entire game = selling to NPC buy orders (which impose a price floor)??
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Angsty Teenager
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Posted - 2011.08.19 03:22:00 -
[5]
I'll tell you why I want them.
Basically the sleepers and I have a deal. I rebuy all their loot that you pirates steal from them and give it back to them, the rightful owners, and they give me intel on all the noobs in WH space and go kill them.
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 04:48:00 -
[6]
OK.....................................
So I can see that no one has an answer to this......
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Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.19 04:57:00 -
[7]
Because Margin Trading exists.
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trance atlas
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:00:00 -
[8]
how much more operator ?
5 isk 5mil isk 60 mil?
the larger the difference the more likely it is to be a margin trap
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kesshisan
Because Margin Trading exists.
what? hahaha this, in no way, even comes close to addressing a feasible answer to my question...
the NPC buy orders are 5,000,000... the player buy orders are 5,000,000.01
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Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Operator XIII
what? hahaha this, in no way, even comes close to addressing a feasible answer to my question...
the NPC buy orders are 5,000,000... the player buy orders are 5,000,000.01
Sorry, I have no idea then.
But I do enjoy the fact that you provide us with minimal information and then when we try to offer rational solutions you THEN give us the information and laugh at us. That makes me want to help you out.
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trance atlas
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Operator XIII
Originally by: Kesshisan
Because Margin Trading exists.
what? hahaha this, in no way, even comes close to addressing a feasible answer to my question...
the NPC buy orders are 5,000,000... the player buy orders are 5,000,000.01
is it a big m3 item?
i would assume the penny they spend save hours of hauling but no idea sell one to a person then shoot them a mail .
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kesshisan
Originally by: Operator XIII
what? hahaha this, in no way, even comes close to addressing a feasible answer to my question...
the NPC buy orders are 5,000,000... the player buy orders are 5,000,000.01
Sorry, I have no idea then.
But I do enjoy the fact that you provide us with minimal information and then when we try to offer rational solutions you THEN give us the information and laugh at us. That makes me want to help you out.
I was working off the assumption that:
A) Other people have almost assuredly seen this same thing in game, and have much more experience with Eve than me
-OR-
B) Someone may have taken 10 secs in game to actually open the market and look to verify that I wasn't full of crap
And don't try to act like your answer wasn't curt and condescending...
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: trance atlas
Originally by: Operator XIII
Originally by: Kesshisan
Because Margin Trading exists.
what? hahaha this, in no way, even comes close to addressing a feasible answer to my question...
the NPC buy orders are 5,000,000... the player buy orders are 5,000,000.01
is it a big m3 item?
i would assume the penny they spend save hours of hauling but no idea sell one to a person then shoot them a mail .
No, they are tiny in volume... also, this doesn't really make sense as the player buy orders are in the same station as the NPC buy orders usually - only for a fraction of an ISK more so that people actually sell to them instead of the NPCs.
I would understand this if there was some possible chance of these things increasing in value in the future, but since they are only in the game to sell to NPC's at a set price - I am completely stumped as to why anyone would do this.
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trance atlas
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Operator XIII
Originally by: Kesshisan
Originally by: Operator XIII
what? hahaha this, in no way, even comes close to addressing a feasible answer to my question...
the NPC buy orders are 5,000,000... the player buy orders are 5,000,000.01
Sorry, I have no idea then.
But I do enjoy the fact that you provide us with minimal information and then when we try to offer rational solutions you THEN give us the information and laugh at us. That makes me want to help you out.
I was working off the assumption that:
A) Other people have almost assuredly seen this same thing in game, and have much more experience with Eve than me
-OR-
B) Someone may have taken 10 secs in game to actually open the market and look to verify that I wasn't full of crap
And don't try to act like your answer wasn't curt and condescending...
a you have received 5 of 7 post that contained no troll in them its bound to end
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trance atlas
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Operator XIII
Originally by: trance atlas
Originally by: Operator XIII
Originally by: Kesshisan
Because Margin Trading exists.
what? hahaha this, in no way, even comes close to addressing a feasible answer to my question...
the NPC buy orders are 5,000,000... the player buy orders are 5,000,000.01
is it a big m3 item?
i would assume the penny they spend save hours of hauling but no idea sell one to a person then shoot them a mail .
No, they are tiny in volume... also, this doesn't really make sense as the player buy orders are in the same station as the NPC buy orders usually - only for a fraction of an ISK more so that people actually sell to them instead of the NPCs.
I would understand this if there was some possible chance of these things increasing in value in the future, but since they are only in the game to sell to NPC's at a set price - I am completely stumped as to why anyone would do this.
speculation then ?
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 05:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: trance atlas
speculation then ?
Speculation on what? That CCP will raise the NPC buy order prices in the future, so ppl decided to horde Sleeper drops? Doesn't make any sense 
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.08.19 07:11:00 -
[17]
If it's indeed in the same NPC station as the NPC orders... well the only real reason I see is setting up some kind of a scam. Or long-term speculation - if nothing happens you can always sell back to NPCs at a minimal loss. Or <tinfoil hat>insider info about their possible future use</tinfoil hat>.
---
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:48:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 19/08/2011 11:56:46
Originally by: Operator XIII
Originally by: Kesshisan
Because Margin Trading exists.
what? hahaha this, in no way, even comes close to addressing a feasible answer to my question...
the NPC buy orders are 5,000,000... the player buy orders are 5,000,000.01
That is probably somebody from Arek Jaalan. Therefore RP.
My guess would be authochthonian.
The idea is that they will be investigated and experiments conducted to try to reveal elements of the Eve storyline as part of the live event programme.
There are also a few collectors.
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Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc.
Not Found.
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:51:00 -
[19]
To build cosmos items ?
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trance atlas
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Levija Saplina
To build cosmos items ?
sleepers are wh thingys i think. so mebbe t3 but im pretty sure not cosmos.
but it is v early so i could also be super wrong
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Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:21:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Jdestars on 19/08/2011 13:22:27
Originally by: Coffe's Babe
It does NOT make sense for you how NPC's and the prices they offer are worse than the ones players do? What game have you been playing so far? EvE Offline?
Hub Effect ...
Player wants to Sell this kind of componant less than Order npc
Major trader dont move to hub like jita and order npc are outside .
Price differences are not significant to compensate for tax of purchase/sale in market so no profite to do
the good question its why the supply dont supply directly the Npc Orders in right station ...
dont try to find logic with the damned Jita Trader and some macroters ..
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Or long-term speculation - if nothing happens you can always sell back to NPCs at a minimal loss. Or <tinfoil hat>insider info about their possible future use</tinfoil hat>.
This ^ ... LOL... is, sadly, the only plausible thing that I can come up with as well 
People do some crazy sh!t.
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OllieNorth
Gallente
R-K Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.19 14:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Operator XIII
B) Someone may have taken 10 secs in game to actually open the market and look to verify that I wasn't full of crap
You have to remember, many MDers, if not most, spend a lot more time on the forums than actually in game. Have to have something to keep us from getting bored at work you know.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.19 14:29:00 -
[24]
It has nothing to do with COSMOS or T3, Sleeper components plays no part in any manufacturing.
They do play a very important part in the sleeper story line.
Why is that so difficult to accept?
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Bad Bobby
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.08.19 14:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Scout1111
Isk laundering.
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 14:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
It has nothing to do with COSMOS or T3, Sleeper components plays no part in any manufacturing.
They do play a very important part in the sleeper story line.
Why is that so difficult to accept?
Can I get a TLDR version of sleeper story line please? I want to know what would drive ppl to such market money madness.
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Scout1111
Isk laundering.
And this still makes no sense...
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Chigger Troutslayer
Internet Spaceship Gamers
RED Citizens
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Posted - 2011.08.19 14:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Scout1111
Isk laundering.
This is the only thing that makes sense to me. Dirty money buys them then undocks and jets them for transfer to another toon????
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 18:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Chigger Troutslayer
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Scout1111
Isk laundering.
This is the only thing that makes sense to me. Dirty money buys them then undocks and jets them for transfer to another toon????
Actually, I apologize. If anything, this does in fact make the most sense of anything else I've (not) thought of. An item with a set price is a perfect for this...
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.19 18:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Operator XIII
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
It has nothing to do with COSMOS or T3, Sleeper components plays no part in any manufacturing.
They do play a very important part in the sleeper story line.
Why is that so difficult to accept?
Can I get a TLDR version of sleeper story line please? I want to know what would drive ppl to such market money madness.
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Scout1111
Isk laundering.
And this still makes no sense...
It's a different play style, just like some seek a large wallet, others killboard stats or territory, RPer consider unravelling the story line the most important aspect of EVE.
5m is a trivial amount of ISK, the cost of T1 Cruiser without fittings and as already pointed out it can be resold to NPC and get the bulk of the isk back. The loss is 0.01 isk.
A lot of RPer are very old players with massive resources that think nothing of running contests and games with Billion ISK prizes.
One RP player recently paid several billion of ISK for a unit of Trinary Data. It is a nearly unique item (3-6 are thought to exist). They did this because a unit of that was destroyed with the Wreck of Lianda Burreau. The first NPC Actor to travel into wormhole space. It is considered that this item might act as a 'key' to unlock information from sleeper structures in w-space.
Yes, they could be used to launder ISK but at only 5 Million ISK apiece for the most expensive it is not a very efficient way to do it, compared to say faction implants.
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Esan Vartesa
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.08.19 19:22:00 -
[30]
CCP has consistently warned players beforehand when they are going to remove NPC buy orders from the market. This makes purchases of these items for a trivial amount above the NPC price a 100% safe investment, with a tiny administrative charge.
If you have excess ISK, and want to speculate on expansion changes, this is actually a very good idea. All the CCP-driven RP going on right now is revolving around WHs, Sleepers, drones, and the like. There's also a new novel coming out, and all this story stuff is the setup for that book, and whatever expansion content will come with it.
These items have no purpose other than to be a reward for ratting in WHs. CCP could have just placed bounties on Sleepers and achieved exactly the same thing, but instead they chose to place item drops on them and seed NPC buy orders. They also invested in posting stories about how Concord had convinced all the Empires to buy up this material as a way of giving all 4 of them equal access to any discoveries made from researching the items. That's a lot of work that could have been accomplished with bounties.
Thus, although not certain, it is perfectly reasonable that these items will actually be valuable for something other than being sold to NPCs in the future. The Empires are willing to pay capsuleers 5m per unit of this stuff, and from an RP standpoint that means they're worth at least that much to them. Now RP considerations don't mean much to players uninterested in that side of the game, but many of CCP's design decisions revolve around Eve's story.
I personally have "some" ISK stored in the form of a stockpile of this particular item, purchased exactly as you have seen. If CCP warns about removing this item from the market before I find out if it will be useful for anything else, I'll dump it all on the NPCs. If they break with past behavior and don't warn me, I'll be sitting on a stockpile of now-rare, relic items that I'll likely be able to sell off slowly on contract. I may lose out, but nothing ventured is nothing gained, as they say.
If a new use for them is added to the game, the price will likely rise as a result, and my investment will have paid off. Opportunity cost isn't a large factor as I currently have difficulty finding opportunities for my ISK anyway.
And yes, I'm fully cognizant of the fact that your persistent questioning of "why" people are doing this isn't purely an exercise in curiosity. But I seriously doubt that explaining the above is going to affect the outcome of my investment, as I have no plans to add to my stockpile and CCP isn't going to modify their decisions based on the effect it will have on 1 player.
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 19:35:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Esan Vartesa
<evil genius market tomfoolery>
I just CTRL+C CTRL+V your master plan... what now? 
Revealing details of their schemes... villains will never learn.
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Esan Vartesa
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.08.19 19:52:00 -
[32]
Now we wait...
 Mwhahahahahaha...... *cough*
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Scout1111
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Posted - 2011.08.19 20:15:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Operator XIII
OK.....................................
So I can see that no one has an answer to this......
Blind.
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Operator XIII
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Posted - 2011.08.19 20:55:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Scout1111
Originally by: Operator XIII
OK.....................................
So I can see that no one has an answer to this......
Blind.
I know... you'd think, right?
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El Geo
Group 2
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Posted - 2011.08.20 16:38:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Scout1111
Isk laundering.
this |
Arch Ange1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 22:56:00 -
[36]
Isk Laundering.
i.e, RMT seller buys those loot above npc sell orders and trades them to his client for real cash. client can sell them back to npc orders getting his isk. This is more legal than transfering isk directly i suppose.
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Cassina Lemour
Minmatar
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.21 09:19:00 -
[37]
Paranoia reigns supreme in the fact of overwhelming evidence.
Is it any wonder EVE is going to **** with so many morons around willing to share their ignorance.
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Xai Li Shun
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Posted - 2011.08.21 16:28:00 -
[38]
To be fair, they're people looking for logical answers to why someone is doing something.
lolplay is, by its own nature, incredibly non-logical and nonsensical.
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Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.08.21 20:02:00 -
[39]
I like this sort of question and while many posters haze people asking them props to you for being persistent ! I like to understand things too. After reading the thread I'll augment a couple and ad a third.
1: speculation - FREE "PUT" warrant. in this game, unlike the real world so many opportunities exist to buy things that have huge upsides and virtually no downsides, that people can make isk in far outscaled ways. The end of NPC buy orders on something like this would have some warning. Insurance scams , recyling of comps down to components.. the big pi npc order change were a few. HOwever _ the change seems like a long shot
2: Role play ? huh? wow.. very interesting to learn about as I don't read those sorts of forums. well worth asking the question just to learn that it could be plausable. I doubt it though... I would look at the pattern of where the orders were placed to understand that better and I could be wrong.
3: Market Intelligence : ! I know that I have learned an extrodinary amount about player activitiy from regional buy orders. You get to see the players names, times of sale, and of course location. (people could take the time to obscure that with alts and movement but few have a purpose to) . This could be useful in finding pvp targets, and also useful in discovering systems where a depot of high priced specialized items could be sold > I DO Not understand the worm-hole static spawn dynamics well enough to get whether that is even close to plausible ... as the wh outlets change.. but still I could see where the closes place things are being dumped might point to a high end wh near by
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Jerry Pepridge
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Posted - 2011.08.21 22:38:00 -
[40]
all wrong.
When an NPC buy order is filled, the price rise's by .01 isk
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7 Easy steps |
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El Geo
Group 2
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Posted - 2011.08.21 22:52:00 -
[41]
the recent report by 'actors' has nothing to do with the buy orders in jita for said items since wh space was implemented, in fact it wasnt even the actors that bought them, it was the npc buy orders placed by research corps like zainou etc - sure someone might have collected a few but not in the quantities that are bought for 0.1 isk over what the item is worth and jerry, the sleeper components there dont increase or decrease at all. |
Anya Ohaya
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Posted - 2011.08.21 23:36:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jerry Pepridge
all wrong.
When an NPC buy order is filled, the price rise's by .01 isk
When I have filled NPC buy orders I have seen the price go up, down, or the order vanish entirely. But I haven't seen NPC buy orders for sleeper components (or overseer effects) ever change.
NPC buy orders are also easy to spot, since they have a 364 day duration.
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Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.08.22 02:19:00 -
[43]
Originally by: El Geo
..... and jerry, the sleeper components there dont increase or decrease at all.
just to step in on that point.
The supply of those components is infinite in one sense (just takes key strokes or an algorith causing a spawn on a ship kill).
...but on the sense I think that was meant "number of components in players hands" preventing the components from being sold to npc's does effectively prevent them from being taken from the game (they aren't held by those npc's in some sort of escrow account or hangar). That effectively does increase the number of sleeper components in game by turning off a sink even as the faucets remain flowing the same.
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AnakieNine
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Posted - 2011.08.22 05:05:00 -
[44]
It may be RMT, or possibly nothing quite so complex. I used to love sleeper salvage and tags as it was a way of buffering my cash flow and storing isk in another equally liquid form. The problem was as a trader I would be blind of all the isk locked up in assets, as it was an investment and was "going to" make isk for me. If I tried to store wealth in isk I would always spend it during normal daily trading activities. It only took a few days.. Each time I made an effort to get extra isk I would find trade opportunities and spend the whole lot instead of doing something bigger and with better returns. In eve it takes far longer to transfer assets to isk, than it does to find investment opportunities for that isk.
I never purchased Sleeper loot above the NPC buy price. However should I have decided to it so it would have still been a good investment strategy for me. It would have enabled me to earn excellent returns latter on when they where sold en-masse to get instant funding. It was more something I used as a way of keeping the isk out of my trading balances and off my radar. I did the same with Tags that could be sold to NPC's.
So basically it was a forced way of saving when I had reached over the 1T asset mark and found trading caused me to never have enough on hand isk to do many opportunistic manipulations when the time was just right. Much like having money in a piggy bank instead of your wallet.
For instance, twice it enabled me to cashed in over 100b of sleeper loot within an hour so that I could push up the techn line of products when the price was back around the 30-40k a unit mark. If I didn't have sleeper loot and tags from trading I wouldn't have been prepared for techn when stocks were down to half and the investment to buy it all up was much lower than normal.
Wealthy traders are weathly because their isk is in trades earning compounding interest. This however often leads to inability to do anything big. Trading in sleeper loot and tags was a part of my answer to the short comings I had in the way I played the game and at a time I had no more trade lines worth while moving into.
So that was 'my' reason for trading sleeper loot regionally at a a price "below" the NPC buy prices. I made really small profits on regional trades, yet more importantly increased my liquid assets which made great returns.
They really are just like isk. You only have to watch out for patch day changes as mentioned above. This is easily fixed by always selling them before patch day to the NPC's. It sounds like a bad thing and work but it is not because it means every patch you will always have a large pile of isk awaiting for patch day speculation. This saves you time in selling normal assets and also saves you isk since selling other assets around patch day is often at a loss. Price are often dropping as other players try to sell and do price wars tring to get isk. NPC items don't have that problem as the price can be considered fixed.
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Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
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Posted - 2011.08.22 07:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Arch Ange1
Isk Laundering.
i.e, RMT...
^^ This. The same thing is going on with public contracts of caldari shuttles for 2,000,054,321 isk which have zero chance of succeeding as scams. They are 100% RMTing.
Sadly petitioning 'obvious RMTing is obvious' yields no results from CCP.
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