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Surely the numbers show the truth?

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Mrs Pants	Posted - 2011.08.21 13:59:00 - [1] I am a long time player of eve. I have 2 accounts and very diverse characters between them. Recently I have been logging on to do no more than change my skills as I canÆt find any reason to play anymore. I based my characters between combat and industry and used one to finance the other. I pay real money for both as I canÆt generate enough in game income to fund either of them anymore. I guess that is a success on the part of the eve developers (those BFF people). I am part of a corporation that had many active members last year. We fought in the NC conflicts and we loved organising funding (mining etc) training and fighting corp events. We were proud members of an alliance and then along came the null sec feck! Our Alliance could not survive it as our home became overnight worthless. The Alliance collapsed as the only places left worth living in were owned by friends or far greater sized enemies and there was no spare income in the friendly space. Our Corp survived for a bit. Numbers dropped a little but the core players remained active as we sort to find some way to continue to finance doing the things we loved. Then you released your next bombshell. Firstly, I hope you are not happy with removing my spinning ship with that wooden slough and crappy station user interface? I turn it off and all I can see is the loading screen? I can no longer drag and drop a ship and I have to plod slowly and painfully to see that I can no longer properly admire my ship from the hanger. Best of all imho is the fact that you spent years telling us about walking toons but you spent all the development time designing micro transactions! The introduction of Micro transactions enraged so many long-time core players that we now have a corp of skill changers and I have lost some friends in RL as we canÆt all agree on which new game we will play. Some of us used World of Tanks for a while but you get that old EU/US? Server problem as with rift and the other games we looked at. Going forward looking at the devblog http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=946 recently showing the awesome programming skills of the white boarder and demonstrating that after nearly 8 years you still don't know how null sec works and you still donÆt know what your income source wants and that you have clearly had enough of us and are determined to close the game down... I would ask for a refund. I now consider your game to have been no more than a packaged product with a limited lifespan and therefore not worth more than a typical packaged program, say ú35.00. Go back a year. Things were flowing, people were fighting and happy, people were building and happy, people lived in null sec and enjoyed it! DonÆt keep what you have done and try to go forward with it. DonÆt put your fingers in your ears and yell ôLALALALALAö every time one of us (your income) tells you we donÆt like what youÆre doing. You donÆt know better than us anymore that is as clear as your white board blog. Oh and micro transactions. How are they working out for you? Anybody want to tell me how much they have spent in purchasing these costumes?
Ethan Bejorn Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.08.21 14:01:00 - [2] Yes, the numbers do show the truth. CCP are blind and desperate at this point. They just don't seem to understand that improving upon their spaceship game means workingon spaceships, not other flashy nonsense like WiS and barbie doll clothing.
velox Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.21 14:08:00 - [3] The problem I fear is bigger than 'eve' the title and actually reflect more to the corporate business and their other asperations of owning multiple MMO titles. They have two stuggling mmo titles in development and Dust on top. Dust being another slap in the face to eve users as we would have to all own consoles in order to play it. You can well imagine the storm there must be in their other dev teams if they cant even get the eve one right. I much prefer the CCP of old where the game was good and showed promise instead of this one in decline. Always aiming one step beyond the edge.
Fitzter Real Nice And Laidback Corporation	Posted - 2011.08.21 14:14:00 - [4] I've canceled 2 of my 3 accounts months ago.I've been keeping my last one alive but inactive hoping the game turns around enough for me to want to come back.My corp and the friends I've made is the only reason I even keep waiting but it seems a fail cascade is imminent. http://www.rnal.net/images//fitzteriss2.jpg
Hakaru Ishiwara Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.08.21 14:22:00 - [5] Originally by: Mrs Pants ...Anybody want to tell me how much they have spent in purchasing these costumes? I have spent $0.00 on CCP-sold MTs. In fact, I have also ceased my occasional practice of buying GTCs and reselling for ISK. That's hard currency not flowing into CCP's coffers. Hilmar asked his people to watch customers' actions rather than read their words. Does reduced cash revenue count as well?
Galalissa Noban	Posted - 2011.08.21 15:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Ethan Bejorn The loud minority on the forums don't show the truth. Fixed it for ya ....... currently 40k+ online ..... i would hardly say CCP are " blind and desperate " .....
Krixtal Icefluxor Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.21 15:37:00 - [7] Originally by: Galalissa Noban Fixed it for ya ....... currently 40k+ online ..... i would hardly say CCP are " blind and desperate " ..... Erm.......even 2 months ago it was at LEAST 50,000 + online at this time on a Sunday. Think and check facts before posting nonsense please. Thank you. Have a Nice Day. ************************ "God is nothing but the power of the Universe, as a whole, to organize itself." - Lee Smolin Three Roads to Quantum Gravity**
Umad Bro Questionmark	Posted - 2011.08.21 15:40:00 - [8] I'm just posting this because my sig is appropriate to the topic at hand. That's how you guys look. Current state of the forums: Making capsuleers slightly angry since 2003.
Galalissa Noban	Posted - 2011.08.21 15:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor Erm.......even 2 months ago it was at LEAST 50,000 + online at this time on a Sunday. Think and check facts before posting nonsense please. Thank you. Have a Nice Day. That proves that CCP are blind and desperate how exactly ? .............. That's right , it doesn't . How-ever , come back to me in 6 months , and show a steady decline in players , then you can claim it .
Krixtal Icefluxor Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.21 15:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Galalissa Noban That proves that CCP are blind and desperate how exactly ? .............. That's right , it doesn't . How-ever , come back to me in 6 months , and show a steady decline in players , then you can claim it . T R O L L .......spotted. Have a Nice Day ************************ "God is nothing but the power of the Universe, as a whole, to organize itself." - Lee Smolin Three Roads to Quantum Gravity**
Chopper Rollins Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.21 16:09:00 - [11] atcherly, i think he has a point, a bit of a dip in the northern summer means nothing. If the numbers are still down or further down in december i'll have to agree with the 'sky is falling' stuff. Doubt it tho.
SilentSkills Gallente Tax Evaders Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.21 16:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark I'm just posting this because my sig is appropriate to the topic at hand. That's how you guys look. bro you are a terrible troll, please browse posts by professional trolls so you can get a glimpse on how to be original. The Monocle Definition CCP - Originally by: Imuran Cannot code properly
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.08.21 17:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor Originally by: Galalissa Noban Fixed it for ya ....... currently 40k+ online ..... i would hardly say CCP are " blind and desperate " ..... Erm.......even 2 months ago it was at LEAST 50,000 + online at this time on a Sunday. Think and check facts before posting nonsense please. Thank you. Have a Nice Day. You realize it's the middle of summer... right? --- Drykor - AHARM
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.21 17:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Drykor You realize it's the middle of summer... right? No. It's the end of summer. If it was the middle of summer, we would see higher numbers (well, except for this year, when a patch did something rather extraordinary and made the numbers go down rather than go up). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Joe SMASH You Got A Purty Mouth	Posted - 2011.08.21 17:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor Originally by: Galalissa Noban That proves that CCP are blind and desperate how exactly ? .............. That's right , it doesn't . How-ever , come back to me in 6 months , and show a steady decline in players , then you can claim it . T R O L L .......spotted. Have a Nice Day You must be one of those people who believe that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. Those are the worst kinds of people. ----------------------------------- More stuff goes here.
T'Laar Bok	Posted - 2011.08.21 17:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Galalissa Noban currently 40k+ online ..... The average amount of players online has dropped for the first time ever to about 2009 levels and still dropping as subscriptions end. Originally by: Galalissa Noban i would hardly say CCP are " blind and desperate " ..... I would be a tad concerned if I went backwards 2 years but I believe CCP will just ride it out in the hope that subscriptions will increase again. However I believe CCP have destroyed any goodwill they had and "Word of mouth" IMO is in the majority negative. And on top of that this is a very old game and looks it. I mean WTF were they thinking with the unidentifiable icons? My Vic20 could do more identifiable sprites.
Mistah Ewedynao Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.21 17:53:00 - [17] Say and think what you like folks. I just know that this time one year ago on a Sunday at this time of day there were at LEAST 8k...sometimes 9-10k more people ingame....this is a fact from personal observatiom Worldwide bad economy? Yep.. no doubt a factor. Will some of CCP's more controversial recent "expansions" and future plans contribute to this even more? Good question, but I can tell you that I haven't seen anything that has me excited. It sure isn't gonna be their latest line of skirts Trying to force me into null sec is a DUMB move. Whether you all know it or not, with the latest "expansion" CCP has already stealth nerfed all the high sec complexs and exploration sites...the value of the loot has been more than HALVED. Is that gonna make me change the way I play? Maybe....what it has done so far is it has made me sell a couple of my characters and terminate their accounts.
octahexx Charante	Posted - 2011.08.21 18:03:00 - [18] doesnt help that the last video of hilmar he stated the focus was on making clothes for the nex shop. reshuffling old stuff inside eve like moving missions etc is also not expanding as in adding anything to eve. why not add stuff to spaceships...get people excited about what made them sub in the first place.
Bane Necran Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.21 18:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Mistah Ewedynao I just know that this time one year ago on a Sunday at this time of day there were at LEAST 8k...sometimes 9-10k more people ingame....this is a fact from personal observatiom Observe this.
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.08.21 18:17:00 - [20] Edited by: Drykor on 21/08/2011 18:17:44 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Drykor You realize it's the middle of summer... right? No. It's the end of summer. If it was the middle of summer, we would see higher numbers (well, except for this year, when a patch did something rather extraordinary and made the numbers go down rather than go up). We never have higher numbers in the summer, 'cause that's when people go away on vacation or spend time outside. This has been the same in every single corporation I have been in. As for the nitpicking comment, it's still in the middle of vacation time. --- Drykor - AHARM
Galalissa Noban	Posted - 2011.08.21 18:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Krixtal Icefluxor Originally by: Galalissa Noban That proves that CCP are blind and desperate how exactly ? .............. That's right , it doesn't . How-ever , come back to me in 6 months , and show a steady decline in players , then you can claim it . T R O L L .......spotted. Have a Nice Day Of course , i should have guessed that anyone that disagrees with you would be labelled a troll . Besides , i would hardly call the current " 46, 459 " online a " significant " drop in numbers . While it may be slightly higher than normal , it certainly isn't anything to cause CCP to panic , or be " desperate " about.
Shepard Book	Posted - 2011.08.21 18:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Mrs Pants I am a long time player of eve. I have 2 accounts and very diverse characters between them. Recently I have been logging on to do no more than change my skills as I canÆt find any reason to play anymore. I based my characters between combat and industry and used one to finance the other. I pay real money for both as I canÆt generate enough in game income to fund either of them anymore. I guess that is a success on the part of the eve developers (those BFF people). I am part of a corporation that had many active members last year. We fought in the NC conflicts and we loved organising funding (mining etc) training and fighting corp events. We were proud members of an alliance and then along came the null sec feck! Our Alliance could not survive it as our home became overnight worthless. The Alliance collapsed as the only places left worth living in were owned by friends or far greater sized enemies and there was no spare income in the friendly space. Our Corp survived for a bit. Numbers dropped a little but the core players remained active as we sort to find some way to continue to finance doing the things we loved. Then you released your next bombshell. Firstly, I hope you are not happy with removing my spinning ship with that wooden slough and crappy station user interface? I turn it off and all I can see is the loading screen? I can no longer drag and drop a ship and I have to plod slowly and painfully to see that I can no longer properly admire my ship from the hanger. Best of all imho is the fact that you spent years telling us about walking toons but you spent all the development time designing micro transactions! The introduction of Micro transactions enraged so many long-time core players that we now have a corp of skill changers and I have lost some friends in RL as we canÆt all agree on which new game we will play. Some of us used World of Tanks for a while but you get that old EU/US? Server problem as with rift and the other games we looked at. Going forward looking at the devblog http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=946 recently showing the awesome programming skills of the white boarder and demonstrating that after nearly 8 years you still don't know how null sec works and you still donÆt know what your income source wants and that you have clearly had enough of us and are determined to close the game down... I would ask for a refund. I now consider your game to have been no more than a packaged product with a limited lifespan and therefore not worth more than a typical packaged program, say ú35.00. Go back a year. Things were flowing, people were fighting and happy, people were building and happy, people lived in null sec and enjoyed it! DonÆt keep what you have done and try to go forward with it. DonÆt put your fingers in your ears and yell ôLALALALALAö every time one of us (your income) tells you we donÆt like what youÆre doing. You donÆt know better than us anymore that is as clear as your white board blog. Oh and micro transactions. How are they working out for you? Anybody want to tell me how much they have spent in purchasing these costumes? So you miss anoms, ship spinning is what I took from this. Every major MMO out there has or is moving towards MT in one form or another. It only makes since for CCP to have that base covered if it is needed later. I am not saying I like it but understand it. They are working towards buffing 0.0 where you claim to have roots. Interesting. It is good to get your opinions out but as for me, I am tryiong to be patient to see how this Winter and next Summer pan out. I am very interested to see how establishments / contraband work out, dust514, and 0.0 reworked.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.21 18:40:00 - [23] Edited by: Tippia on 21/08/2011 18:42:30 Originally by: Drykor We never have higher numbers in the summer àapart from after the RMR, Revelations II, Empyrean Age, Apocrypha, and Tyrannis patches (although Tyrannis only showed larger numbers than the preceding spring, and did indeed show an overall slowdown as summer went along). Quote: 'cause that's when people go away on vacation or spend time outside àand the time when they have more free time left over to play the game. Quote: This has been the same in every single corporation I have been in. Which is nice and all, but apocryphal at best and not supported by the actual numbers. Quote: As for the nitpicking comment, it's still in the middle of vacation time. àand yet this is the time each year when the summer bump starts to wind down. This year, it didn't happen at the normal time (now), but rather in conjuction with the patch, which is unheard of. Originally by: Bane Necran Originally by: Mistah Ewedynao I just know that this time one year ago on a Sunday at this time of day there were at LEAST 8k...sometimes 9-10k more people ingame....this is a fact from personal observatiom Observe this. àand based on those exact same numbers, observe this. Suffice to say, numbers are down compared to last year. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.21 19:00:00 - [24] Edited by: Dusty Warrior on 21/08/2011 19:05:35 Personally, I just don't feel EVE anymore since Incarna. I, in my own little fantasy world had the illusion that CCP had my back. After Incarna, I looked behind me and saw CCP running towards an egg stamped "Faction Fit". I got podded! We'll see what hatches but it is of my opinion, CCP has or is trying to let go of the older players to usher in the new "Barbie Doll/P2W/MTs" generation in an effort of cashing in on the good ole proverbial "Cash Cow". CCP knew this outburst was in the making, hence the "Stay the Course" comment. They're betting on making more revenue on the influx of new players who have no idea what it took to engage in the industry/PVP/PVE aspect of EVE before. They'll simply stomp into the game, throw down their Daddy's CC or their own and start playing. There has been many posts on various threads reference this issue that favor the direction EVE is headed. However I tend to believe they make up about as little of the player base as they claim the "Bitter Vets" make up. So, I choose to cancel out the "Fanbois" and look at the statistics which clearly show a decline from where we were just a year ago. Does this mean EVE is dying? I don't think it's death will be as immediate as posts indicate. I do feel it's imminent, especially if/when another MMO is created with features of EVE minus the recent injection. Hell... I'm looking every day for a space MMO that is similar to EVE. However, I do feel the method in which we use to play EVE is dying or nearing its last breath. Rather that means a good thing or a bad thing depends on where you stand on the present discourse. Unfortunately this is where I fall into the category. Being a player of 4+ years I'm not willing to transgress to a P2W/MTs/Barbie Doll mentality. It's not what I started playing EVE for in 2007. I'm not condemning the ones who wish to play this way. I've said some mean things about people who prefer this type of game play and will continue to do so. However, I think my anger comes more from disappointment towards CCP's attitude and unresponsive nature than rage towards the ones who think this is a cool change for EVE. ATM, I only log on to change skills. Once winter's so called expansion gets here I'll probably unload my assets to whoever might be in the station and transfer or delete my toons, then delete the client for good... unless of course I'm pleasantly surprised. <-- Sadly I don't think this will be the case.
Jon Taggart State War Academy	Posted - 2011.08.21 19:05:00 - [25] It's difficult to say if EVE truly is sailing on troubled waters. Only time will tell though. However, the forums have certainly gotten a lot worse. A lot worse. I'm not an alt
I Love Boobies Amarr All Hail Boobies	Posted - 2011.08.21 19:10:00 - [26] Actually, I checked the numbers on Eve-Offline's site, and the numbers are about the same as last year at this time. The problem I have with the numbers being the same is CCP boasts they are steadily adding new subscribers all the time. If that is the case, wouldn't there be more online this year compared to last year just because of new subscribers? So yeah, I think the numbers are down. It's not just the summer downturn that's to be expected.
Rhaegor Stormborn BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.08.21 19:10:00 - [27] Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 21/08/2011 19:10:50 Originally by: Galalissa Noban Originally by: Ethan Bejorn The loud minority on the forums don't show the truth. Fixed it for ya ....... currently 40k+ online ..... i would hardly say CCP are " blind and desperate " ..... Average players online during each day is under 30k right now, around 28k. We used to have 40k average daily, and it was GROWING. This is just the start I fear. As time goes on, thing will just get worse and worse. CCP is making eve worse, not making it better. They need to focus on balancing the game, fixing bugs, iterating on stuff like sov warfare and faction warfare, adding more missions, balancing moon minerals and regular mining, etc etc etc. They are not, they talk about it, but never do anything. And what they do finish, is typically unbalanced and more broken than before.
Simetraz	Posted - 2011.08.21 19:15:00 - [28] Edited by: Simetraz on 21/08/2011 19:16:59 The numbers always dip during the summer as people go on vacation and just have less time to play as they are busy working outside and enjoying the weather. And every summer the number crunchers scream EVE is dieing. There was also a very large number of people displaced from 0.0 around the time of the expansion which also cause a lot of people to stop playing. This game has also been known for huge numbers of people that have multiple alts. A lot of people stopped stopped paying for them. ie 1 person quits and takes their 4 alts with them, so on paper 5 people quit when in reality only one person did. Why it is always better to have 5 actual people playing then one person with 4 alts. So take everything with a grain of salt. Sometimes it is better to get rid of some people, and in the end have a better player base.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.21 19:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Simetraz The numbers always dip during the summer No. This is a myth, and not supported by the numbers. They dip in the late summer/early autumn, presumably as people go back to work/school. Quote: So take everything with a grain of salt. àespecially the claim about this supposed summer dip that doesn't actually take place (except for this year, where it had more to do with a botched expansion launch than with the summer itself). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.08.21 19:52:00 - [30] Surely my 'evidence' is anecdotal and I could just have been in corporations with a relatively high amount of people with a 'life', but I would like to get your numbers and their source as you provided none either. To me it always seemed Eve went quiet during summer. --- Drykor - AHARM
Simetraz	Posted - 2011.08.21 19:56:00 - [31] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Simetraz The numbers always dip during the summer No. This is a myth, and not supported by the numbers. They dip in the late summer/early autumn, presumably as people go back to work/school. Oh I don't know every and July ~ September sense 2009 has been on the down word slope or the bottom half of the curve. Server High Points should be right around the expansions and then people drop off till the next one. Not surprising really.
Ethan Bejorn Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.08.21 20:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Simetraz Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Simetraz The numbers always dip during the summer No. This is a myth, and not supported by the numbers. They dip in the late summer/early autumn, presumably as people go back to work/school. Oh I don't know every and July ~ September sense 2009 has been on the down word slope or the bottom half of the curve. Server High Points should be right around the expansions and then people drop off till the next one. Not surprising really. Personally, I find the rapid decline in population after Incara quite suprising, and moreso, both disturbing and revealing. TBH, I am not suprised, as I have cancelled my three accounts, and once they are done, hasta la vista baby. I am just here to complain until they run out of time. I feel cheated that I wasted the past 5 years of my life playing this game only to have it ruined by the recent band of idiots running CCP these days.
K'uata Sayus	Posted - 2011.08.21 20:11:00 - [33] My subscription runs out in 6 days. AMF CCP, and I don't mean "Adios,my friends". EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM.
gfldex	Posted - 2011.08.21 20:31:00 - [34] Originally by: Ethan Bejorn Personally, I find the rapid decline in population after Incara quite suprising, and moreso, both disturbing and revealing. I don't. Given how many botters got banned or driven out of a game they didn't really wanted to play anymore, I would say the numbers don't look that grim. -- IF YOU PLAY WITH SONY YOU PLAY WITH ******!
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.21 20:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Drykor Surely my 'evidence' is anecdotal and I could just have been in corporations with a relatively high amount of people with a 'life', but I would like to get your numbers and their source as you provided none either. To me it always seemed Eve went quiet during summer. I use eve-offline.com like everyone else, only I've taken the numbers and fed them into a spreadsheet of my own where I can filter out hour-to-hour and day-by-day noise and instead look at consistently comparable data points (e.g. Sundays, as they are always the peak populated days) and comparing month-to-month or year-to-year. One of the results is this. Another is the yearly comparison graph posted earlier. Note the patterns: RMR summer (not marked in the graph) ù slight dip, then the numbers go up, and slow down in the fall. Revelations II summer ù slight dip, then the numbers go up, and with an oddly huge dip in the early/mid fall. Empyrean Age summer ù early peak, then consistent numbers well into the fall. Apocrypha summer ù a tiny dip, then a huge one due to Unhole Rage, but if you compensate for that loss of 23/7 online accounts, the numbers go up Tyrannis summer ù a huge peak after the spring patch release, which calms down. This is the one and only instance of a summer slowdown in the sense everyone think is normal, but the numbers are still higher than before the patch release, and as usual, they dip in the fall, so between the low-points of spring and fall, we have higher summer numbers. àand finally Incarna summer ù a build-up towards huge peak as the one of the most anticipated patches ever is about to be release (a behaviour that you see in many, even most, of the other expansion releases), which immediately takes a nosedive as the patch is actually released, and which then continue to go down to well below the numbers from the preceding spring. The only real ôsummer dipö before Tyrannis was that, some years, the numbers weren't increasing at the normal rate over the summer, so the population remained largely the same. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Sid Icarus	Posted - 2011.08.21 21:34:00 - [36] Edited by: Sid Icarus on 21/08/2011 21:35:48 People whine to much. Get over it or GTFO. I have a pair of goggles. I bought them off the market for 150 million. If I get bored of them, I'll stick em back on the market. Somehow that doesn't cause me any amount of nerdrage. Conceivably you have not paid any AUR or ISK for any of the NEX items, you are even in less of a position to nerdrage. Between people complaining about not being able to "ship spin" or that their 4yr old Compaq cant run Incarna without "getting all hot", the people at CCP reading this crap probably dont know whether to laugh or pound 8 gauge nails through their foreheads. In the 6 years that I have played this game I have noticed that a small, very vocal portion of the forum community will never STFU about perceived injustices being done by CCP. In large part, many of the names never change and some just come and go as a decision made by CCP affects them directly. Whiners, trolls, angry German kids. . . take a note from the PvP'ers. That solo Nano BS isnt going to cut it anymore. Adapt or die.
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.08.21 21:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 21/08/2011 20:49:19 Originally by: Drykor Surely my 'evidence' is anecdotal and I could just have been in corporations with a relatively high amount of people with a 'life', but I would like to get your numbers and their source as you provided none either. To me it always seemed Eve went quiet during summer. I use eve-offline.com like everyone else, only I've taken the numbers and fed them into a spreadsheet of my own where I can filter out hour-to-hour and day-by-day noise and instead look at consistently comparable data points (e.g. Sundays, as they are always the peak populated days) and comparing month-to-month or year-to-year. One of the results is this. Another is the yearly comparison graph posted earlier. Note the patterns: RMR summer (not marked in the graph) ù slight dip, then the numbers go up, and slow down in the fall. Revelations II summer ù slight dip, then the numbers go up, and with an oddly huge dip in the early/mid fall. Empyrean Age summer ù early peak, then consistent numbers well into the fall. Apocrypha summer ù a tiny dip, then a huge one due to Unhole Rage, but if you compensate for that loss of 23/7 online accounts, the numbers go up Tyrannis summer ù a huge peak after the spring patch release, which calms down. This is the one and only instance of a summer slowdown in the sense everyone think is normal, but the numbers are still higher than before the patch release, and as usual, they dip in the fall, so between the low-points of spring and fall, we have higher summer numbers. àand finally Incarna summer ù a build-up towards huge peak as the one of the most anticipated patches ever is about to be release (a behaviour that you see in many, even most, of the other expansion releases), which immediately takes a nosedive as the patch is actually released, and which then continue to go down to well below the numbers from the preceding spring. The only real ôsummer dipö before Tyrannis was that, some years, the numbers weren't increasing at the normal rate over the summer, so the population remained largely the same. Originally by: Simetraz Originally by: Tippia No. This is a myth, and not supported by the numbers. They dip in the late summer/early autumn, presumably as people go back to work/school. Oh I don't know every and July ~ September sense 2009 has been on the down word slope or the bottom half of the curve. Oh, you mean, they dip in late summer/early autumn, presumably as people go back to work/school? <3
Dorian Wylde	Posted - 2011.08.21 22:45:00 - [38] Originally by: Galalissa Noban Originally by: Ethan Bejorn The loud minority on the forums don't show the truth. Fixed it for ya ....... currently 40k+ online ..... i would hardly say CCP are " blind and desperate " ..... This. The whole point of the dev blogs is that the current way null sec works is bad. They are trying to change it, because they understand it so well, and it sucks.
Jerry Pepridge	Posted - 2011.08.21 22:51:00 - [39] You can't have as many accounts logged in anymore is why the online numbers are down. All this talk is fluff, only hard numbers are subscription data. not some graph on some jerkoff's website _________________________________________________ 7 Easy steps
Mrs Pants	Posted - 2011.08.21 22:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Sid Icarus Edited by: Sid Icarus on 21/08/2011 21:35:48 People whine to much. Get over it or GTFO. I have a pair of goggles. I bought them off the market for 150 million. If I get bored of them, I'll stick em back on the market. Somehow that doesn't cause me any amount of nerdrage. Conceivably you have not paid any AUR or ISK for any of the NEX items, you are even in less of a position to nerdrage. Between people complaining about not being able to "ship spin" or that their 4yr old Compaq cant run Incarna without "getting all hot", the people at CCP reading this crap probably dont know whether to laugh or pound 8 gauge nails through their foreheads. In the 6 years that I have played this game I have noticed that a small, very vocal portion of the forum community will never STFU about perceived injustices being done by CCP. In large part, many of the names never change and some just come and go as a decision made by CCP affects them directly. Whiners, trolls, angry German kids. . . take a note from the PvP'ers. That solo Nano BS isnt going to cut it anymore. Adapt or die. Well I never complained before and I am not in this forum to just moan. I adapted to every change and nerf and enjoyed most of it or found a way around it. I listened to 2 years of hype about "Look who's walking!" and what we got was a largely altered engine to deal with a new way of making money out of us and well, that wooden sloth is 2 years in the making and all it can manage is a trip from the bed to the ship? Most of my Corp friends have quit. I am still here but I want to know if what we see is going to stay? Is this the future of eve or a blip? Adapting to continually getting disappointed? Loser talk! I pay a monthly fee for two accounts. I donÆt bot or macro or any of that other isk generating stuff. I play. I just canÆt see why right now since it is mostly solo waiting to see if buddies are coming on. I have an awesome PC and I have no trouble running the game and reading my original post does not reveal any complaints in that direction. I am glad that you responded to a portion of my post though. Thanks for letting me know that you bought some spectacles. Do you enjoy them? Did purchasing them fulfil your needs created by the lack of decent character animation? Either way, no I have not bought any. They do not fulfil the hole I am experiencing in the game. They do not improve my chances in battle and they donÆt make the men out there look any better. As long as they do for some of you then that is all I need to know. It vindicates that you are what the BFF are doing this for and allows me to realise that I am just not in their target market anymore. Good luck to you. Bad luck for me.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.21 22:54:00 - [41] Originally by: Jerry Pepridge All this talk is fluff, only hard numbers are subscription data. not some graph on some jerkoff's website àaww. Poor Chribba. Of course, you don't want to read anything into CCP not providing subscription data any more either? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jerry Pepridge	Posted - 2011.08.21 22:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jerry Pepridge All this talk is fluff, only hard numbers are subscription data. not some graph on some jerkoff's website àaww. Poor Chribba. Of course, you don't want to read anything into CCP not providing subscription data any more either? No i'd rather make rash generalizations & link my website to every reply. (hint: you are the jerkoff) _________________________________________________ 7 Easy steps
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:03:00 - [43] Originally by: Jerry Pepridge No i'd rather make rash generalizations & link my website to every reply. (hint: you are the jerkoff) Rash generalizations such as "there's always a summer dip", which isn't even true? And if I'm the jerkoff, why are you criticizing Chribba (which you are, since the graph on my website is the same as the graph on his website, since they use the exact same data)? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jerry Pepridge	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jerry Pepridge No i'd rather make rash generalizations & link my website to every reply. (hint: you are the jerkoff) Rash generalizations such as "there's always a summer dip", which isn't even true? And if I'm the jerkoff, why are you criticizing Chribba (which you are, since the graph on my website is the same as the graph on his website, since they use the exact same data)? Yes, both "graphs" display online numbers, whether they are accurate or not is another issue, im calling you out as a jerkoff coz all you do is selective quote & sperg a graph. What the graphs do not show is the fact that players who had multiple accounts, do not log them in simultaneously anymore, thus your graph shows a 'dip' in online numbers. only hard data is subscription numbers, and why would ccp release any of that data if idiots like you & the rest of the sheep here will dry doom & sperg the forums with jerkoff statements. /thread _________________________________________________ 7 Easy steps
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:13:00 - [45] Originally by: Jerry Pepridge Edited by: Jerry Pepridge on 21/08/2011 23:10:06 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jerry Pepridge No i'd rather make rash generalizations & link my website to every reply. (hint: you are the jerkoff) Rash generalizations such as "there's always a summer dip", which isn't even true? And if I'm the jerkoff, why are you criticizing Chribba (which you are, since the graph on my website is the same as the graph on his website, since they use the exact same data)? Yes, both "graphs" display online numbers, whether they are accurate or not is another issue, im calling you out as a jerkoff coz all you do is selective quote & sperg a graph. What the graphs do not show is the fact that players who had multiple accounts, do not log them in simultaneously anymore, thus your graph shows a 'dip' in online numbers. only hard data is subscription numbers, and why would ccp release any of that data if idiots like you & the rest of the sheep here will cry doom & sperg the forums with jerkoff statements. /thread CCP alt detected.
Rumplefink	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:14:00 - [46] I am here to rage about client issues. I agree the numbers are down. I am trading my years of asset gathering for PLEX. No more GTC or monthly from me. The new client is buggy as hell. Crashes, buttons now disappearing, sound getting jacked when I alt-tab. I have almost 4 years on this game and the client has NEVER sucked this bad. The bugs have never been this serious either. Yes my machine is pimp, I am a gamer. I have been patient, and will contine to be patient as a play for free until my assets are gone. Then I'll suicide the rest on some few day old players so they rage quit too.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:15:00 - [47] Edited by: Tippia on 21/08/2011 23:17:20 Originally by: Jerry Pepridge Yes, both "graphs" display online numbers, whether they are accurate or not is another issue, im calling you out as a jerkoff coz all you do is selective quote & sperg a graph. So? The question remains: why don't you trust Chribba? Quote: What the graphs do not show is the fact that players who had multiple accounts, do not log them in simultaneously anymore, thus your graph shows a 'dip' in online numbers. And here I thought you were being sarcastic when you said you'd rather make rash generalizations. Quote: only hard data is subscription numbers, and why would ccp release any of that data if [people] here will cry doom. Because they have done so continuously in the past and because it has been the ultimate argument against claims of doom and gloom. Now, all of a sudden, they don't do that any moreà So the only hard data we have is CCP-provided online numbers. The fact remains: I have data to back up my position; you do not. I can understand that this is a embarrassing situation for you, and that it makes you want to call people jerks for injecting some reality into your fantasy worldà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Mrs Pants	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:21:00 - [48] This. The whole point of the dev blogs is that the current way null sec works is bad. They are trying to change it, because they understand it so well, and it sucks. It was at least habitable. Now you are part of a massive fearful coalition or you are out of there. Planned "improvements" should focus on what mistakes were recently made and not be a whiteboard full of ideas to make those mistakes seem small. Every now and again people make monumental mistakes when trying to tweak something. Patching them compounds them. Undo them and look again afterwards. Some of the ideas on that whiteboard may work but first the mess that is there needs to be undone.
Jerry Pepridge	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:21:00 - [49] Edited by: Jerry Pepridge on 21/08/2011 23:23:30 Originally by: Tippia So? The question remains: why don't you trust Chribba? lol, you have no argument left so you try to say "why don't you trust chribba" lame but sure ill play ball. I have no reason to trust him, he is just some nerd that plays eve to me nothing more. but i trust him more than you, as even though he is the origin of the graphs in question, he doesn't post link here like a jerkoff in every thread regarding online numbers. Originally by: Tippia So the only hard data we have is subscription numbers. Correct, so please continue linking your website & crying doom in every thread, im sure of the 10% that actually bother to read forums may even click on the link & see all the hard work you have done, making a website to back-up your sperg. _________________________________________________ 7 Easy steps
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:24:00 - [50] Edited by: Tippia on 21/08/2011 23:25:05 Originally by: Jerry Pepridge lol, you have no argument left so you try to say "why don't you trust chribba" lame but sure ill play ball. I have plenty of arguments, but you choose not to address them and instead try to dismiss me as a jerk and ignore the only available data that tells us anything about the current situation of the game. Quote: Correct I know. So why do you keep dismissing it? Quote: the hard work you have done, making a website to back-up your sperg. Good thing that I haven't done anything of the sort then. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jerry Pepridge	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:34:00 - [51] Online numbers tell one story sure. That story is the hardware issues, that ccp is aware of & apparently "working on it", but that's another story all together. I think you will find that once the hardware issues are finally sorted, your "online" data will spike, as players once again log in all there accounts, afk mine, traders, cyno alts, scouts, hauler alts, freighter alts, pirate alts, afk mission runners etc. If you chose to read the tea leaves, make a website & post in every thread like a jerkoff with this so called "data" then more power to you. just don;t expect players to take you seriously, with the exception of the sheep, who are hopelessly addicted to drama, partially created by sperg. Subscription numbers tell the accurate story, all the rest of your arguments are sperg. _________________________________________________ 7 Easy steps
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:38:00 - [52] Edited by: Tippia on 21/08/2011 23:38:19 Originally by: Jerry Pepridge Online numbers tell one story sure. That story is the hardware issues, that ccp is aware of & apparently "working on it", but that's another story all together. And this is your assumption backed up by nothing but faith and generalisations. Jerkoff. Quote: If you chose to read the tea leaves, make a website & post in every thread like a jerkoff with this so called "data" then more power to you. Again: good thing I didn't do that, then. Quote: Subscription numbers tell the accurate story àwhich makes the sudden choice not to provide them quiteà odd. Oh, and there has in the past been quite a clear connection between online numbers and accounts, btw. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:39:00 - [53] Originally by: Jerry Pepridge Online numbers tell one story sure. That story is the hardware issues, that ccp is aware of & apparently "working on it", but that's another story all together. I think you will find that once the hardware issues are finally sorted, your "online" data will spike, as players once again log in all there accounts, afk mine, traders, cyno alts, scouts, hauler alts, freighter alts, pirate alts, afk mission runners etc. If you chose to read the tea leaves, make a website & post in every thread like a jerkoff with this so called "data" then more power to you. just don;t expect players to take you seriously, with the exception of the sheep, who are hopelessly addicted to drama, partially created by sperg. Subscription numbers tell the accurate story, all the rest of your arguments are sperg. Hilmar, please refrain from personal attacks, we've talked about this before... Spitfire FYP Spitfire! (JK!! DONT BAN ME DUDE!) Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:43:00 - [54] ITT : Sperg.
Ramalamadindong	Posted - 2011.08.22 00:14:00 - [55] Since Incarna hit the numbers of players have been dropping and it's not just due to the summer turndown. It looks like a whole bunch of people just stopped playing and cancelled their accounts. Where did all these people go? Most likely to other games. Other games that they would have not considered had it not been for the poor deployment of Incarna and the bugs it brought with it. I know that I wouldn't have cancelled 2 of my 3 accounts and wouldn't be playing Perpetuum and WOT if not for Incarna. A lot of my friends from Eve have also migrated to these games and we all feel 'at home' there now. We have no plans to return and very few of us are talking about Eves winter expansion. Most of us are resigned to the fact that WiS is now the focus of CCPs efforts and know that the spaceship part has, more or less, reached the end of the road. I don't believe we will ever see true 'walking in stations' with 100's of characters on screen and vibrant stations with players milling about. It's all just a gimmick and marketing hype. After seeing how badly Incarna was implemented I, and many like me, have no faith that CCP can deliver anything but broken, half finished features.
Ryhss Caldari The Excecutorans	Posted - 2011.08.22 00:18:00 - [56] Edited by: Ryhss on 22/08/2011 00:21:45 Originally by: Ethan Bejorn Yes, the numbers do show the truth. CCP are blind and desperate at this point. They just don't seem to understand that improving upon their spaceship game means workingon spaceships, not other flashy nonsense like WiS and barbie doll clothing. WELL SAID! clapclapclapclap Originally by: Galalissa Noban Originally by: Ethan Bejorn The loud minority on the forums don't show the truth. Fixed it for ya ....... currently 40k+ online ..... i would hardly say CCP are " blind and desperate " ..... But I bet it's only 5k actual players just running multiple accounts. Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz null sec sucks dongs.
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.08.22 00:31:00 - [57] Originally by: Ryhss But I bet it's only 5k actual players just running multiple accounts. Don't forget about the thin client ccp uses for its personal mass testing. So I wonder exactly how many of the seemingly perma docked npc corp players are actually real players?
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.08.22 00:42:00 - [58] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 22/08/2011 00:43:28 Originally by: Dorian Wylde This. The whole point of the dev blogs is that the current way null sec works is bad. They are trying to change it, because they understand it so well, and it sucks. Great! I hope CCP does fix nullsec. Hobbling the rest of Eve to do it is the wrong way to do it. This is another Incarna moment. CCP builds up hopes of a serious commitment to improve things but, unfortunately, they can't seem to fix something (null) without breaking everything else. It's like the three stooges are running the company. There are indications that all is not well in New Eden. I've been around long enough to see the typical and expected forum-rage from each and every expansion I've gone through. The current rage is different. It started as a cataclysmic furor that went on for weeks. Now it's a steady seething anger just beneath the surface that is apparent with every post about Incarna and the current direction of the game. Rightfully, the population should be angry. Incarna was a major let down. Sure, it works. Technically, we can walk in station. But, it has no functionality. In it's current state the only way to give it functionality is to remove features already existing in the game, i.e. you can only see where Incursions are occurring from the CQ. But, noone wants to load CQ every time they dock. If I were a miner dependent on a station and CQ was mandatory it would drive me insane having to load it everytime I want to unload my ore. Ultimately, CQ did not bring anything new to the game unless you like sitting doing nothing or walking in circles. CCP should have developed Incarna then released it instead of developing it on the fly and p1ssing off a majority of their players and rendering some incapable of playing the game entirely purely for a feature that does nothing. The NeX, OMG. Regardless of the philisophical dichotomies of MT, the NeX is another disaster. For the majority of CCP's customers I'll paraphrase what CCP said promoting the NeX: "Hey, everybody! Check out the all new NeX! It's our Graaand Opening! NeX has over a hundred fabulous rides, six roller coasters, and tons of great surprises! And the best part is: You can't come!! That's right, because at NeX, only I, or those with lots of money, can get in! That means only we can ride the all-new Tornado Twister, a roller coaster that splashes in the water! Wow! It's the greatest amusement park in the Colorado area! And nobody can go!! Especially Stan and Kyle!! HAHA!! So come on down to theNeX now! But don't plan on getting past the parking lot, 'cause remember: So much to do at the Nex, but you can't come! Especially you, Stan and Kyle. And now we have a 5 year plan to improve nullsec while CCP hobbles the rest of Eve. Something is seriously wrong at CCP and it's beginning to affect the game at a fundamental level while demoralizing the players.
Jon Taggart State War Academy	Posted - 2011.08.22 00:56:00 - [59] They might tell the truth, but don't call me Shirley. I'm not an alt
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.22 01:03:00 - [60] Somehow my purchasing a monocle made people quit EvE and therefore interfere with your ability to gank noobs in nullsec? Its like an orgasm for my soul. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.08.22 01:05:00 - [61] Wahhh. Wheres my WiS?? Wahhh. Too long between updates. We want smaller more frequent updates!! Quote: CCP should have developed Incarna then released it instead of developing it on the fly and p1ssing off a majority of their players and rendering some incapable of playing the game entirely purely for a feature that does nothing. Wahhh. EVE needs more ISK sinks!!! Quote: "Hey, everybody! Check out the all new NeX! It's our Graaand Opening! NeX has over a hundred fabulous rides, six roller coasters, and tons of great surprises! And the best part is: You can't come!! That's right, because at NeX, only I, or those with lots of money, can get in! That means only we can ride the all-new Tornado Twister, a roller coaster that splashes in the water! Wow! It's the greatest amusement park in the Colorado area! And nobody can go!! Especially Stan and Kyle!! HAHA!! So come on down to theNeX now! But don't plan on getting past the parking lot, 'cause remember: So much to do at the Nex, but you can't come! Especially you, Stan and Kyle. Wahhh. CCP aren't sharing their plans with us!!! Quote: And now we have a 5 year plan to improve nullsec while CCP hobbles the rest of Eve. Something is seriously wrong at CCP and it's beginning to affect the game at a fundamental level while demoralizing the players.
Richard C Hoagland	Posted - 2011.08.22 01:08:00 - [62] The PCU numbers are definitely down, and I suspect that subscriptions are either flat or down. If they were going up, we'd probably hear about it. This isn't the end of Eve, and I wouldn't even say that Eve is dying. Obviously this could be the start of a long decline, but it could also end up being a rough transition phase to whatever is coming next. I'm not throwing in the towel, as far as playing the game goes, but I understand the frustrations that people have.
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2011.08.22 01:23:00 - [63] alliance tournament broke the PCU record last year, this year it was like 45k last year it was like 65k eve isn't struggling Eve online next expansion details
Fix Lag	Posted - 2011.08.22 01:40:00 - [64] The AT was terrible and made a lot of people angry Probs not a good idea to suggest that it increased the number of people playing Eve Online Fix Lag!
Diomedes Calypso Aetolian Armada	Posted - 2011.08.22 02:11:00 - [65] Playing devils advocate : (it's just a personality aspect of mine that I cannot help but look at an issue from all sides) -- 1)The station environments take more computer resources , very much so with cq but I think a bit more without cq too 2) Many people run mutiple clients on playing eve 3) Many people stay logged in afk for hours on end in stations, sometimes on mutiple client while playing and often while playing other computer games. 4) All things being equal, the more cpu an application takes, the more likely some people will be to shut it down when they are not using the application actively. Conclusion : With the same level of player interest in the game, the amount of time and number of clients logged on on average should go down if cpu requirements went up . Unknown: How much of the drop is from less interest and how much of the drop is based on turning off clients not in active use which would have been left logged in the past.
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.22 03:01:00 - [66] Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 22/08/2011 03:03:36 Originally by: Mr Kidd And now we have a 5 year plan to improve nullsec while CCP hobbles the rest of Eve. Something is seriously wrong at CCP and it's beginning to affect the game at a fundamental level while demoralizing the players. It may be a case of a company growing too big for its start-up management style. Those ex-employee tales are horrendous, even allowing for some degree of bitterness. It sounds like CCP doesn't know its ass from its elbow atm. I don't mean CCP should stay small or anything like that, I mean it looks like they may need to change their management style and structure to a style more appropriate for a larger company. ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Kogh Ayon	Posted - 2011.08.22 03:20:00 - [67] Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 22/08/2011 03:20:28 A dinosaur died in the way of evolution. OK it is totally your choice that "I have no time to play and I have no money to pay for my accounts and I can only mining or killing anomalies and I can only live in my current corp" We may create a spread sheet to see how many choices are there in eve are how many of them are available for you
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.08.22 04:09:00 - [68] Edited by: Forum Worrier on 22/08/2011 04:10:05 Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian It may be a case of a company growing too big for its start-up management style. Those ex-employee tales are horrendous, even allowing for some degree of bitterness. It sounds like CCP doesn't know its ass from its elbow atm. I don't mean CCP should stay small or anything like that, I mean it looks like they may need to change their management style and structure to a style more appropriate for a larger company. Bitter ex-employees are bitter, more news at 11. Google sure looks like a fun place to work... Surely they can't be as bad as CCP: Quote: Other popular gripes û too much bureaucracy, poor management, poor mentoring, and a hiring process that took months. http://techcrunch.com/2009/01/18/why-google-employees-quit/
Lord Cheechin	Posted - 2011.08.22 04:17:00 - [69] The stat that would be quite interesting is new player retention. Incarna so far (with the exception of course of the dreaded NEX Store) seems to be aimed almost exclusively at new/trial players and encouraging them to stay longer. This observation could be totally incorrect, but it is what I see at any rate. Has this been successful? Are more trial accounts being converted to paying subscriptions? Are new accounts staying longer on average? Or is it too early to tell? So putting all other concerns aside for the moment, and assuming that Incarna so far has been for the new guys and improving the chances of them staying past trial, could it be working?
Igualmentedos Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.22 04:32:00 - [70] Originally by: Dusty Warrior Edited by: Dusty Warrior on 21/08/2011 19:05:35 Personally, I just don't feel EVE anymore since Incarna. I, in my own little fantasy world had the illusion that CCP had my back. After Incarna, I looked behind me and saw CCP running towards an egg stamped "Faction Fit". I got podded! We'll see what hatches but it is of my opinion, CCP has or is trying to let go of the older players to usher in the new "Barbie Doll/P2W/MTs" generation in an effort of cashing in on the good ole proverbial "Cash Cow". CCP knew this outburst was in the making, hence the "Stay the Course" comment. They're betting on making more revenue on the influx of new players who have no idea what it took to engage in the industry/PVP/PVE aspect of EVE before. They'll simply stomp into the game, throw down their Daddy's CC or their own and start playing. There has been many posts on various threads reference this issue that favor the direction EVE is headed. However I tend to believe they make up about as little of the player base as they claim the "Bitter Vets" make up. So, I choose to cancel out the "Fanbois" and look at the statistics which clearly show a decline from where we were just a year ago. Does this mean EVE is dying? I don't think it's death will be as immediate as posts indicate. I do feel it's imminent, especially if/when another MMO is created with features of EVE minus the recent injection. Hell... I'm looking every day for a space MMO that is similar to EVE. However, I do feel the method in which we use to play EVE is dying or nearing its last breath. Rather that means a good thing or a bad thing depends on where you stand on the present discourse. Unfortunately this is where I fall into the category. Being a player of 4+ years I'm not willing to transgress to a P2W/MTs/Barbie Doll mentality. It's not what I started playing EVE for in 2007. I'm not condemning the ones who wish to play this way. I've said some mean things about people who prefer this type of game play and will continue to do so. However, I think my anger comes more from disappointment towards CCP's attitude and unresponsive nature than rage towards the ones who think this is a cool change for EVE. ATM, I only log on to change skills. Once winter's so called expansion gets here I'll probably unload my assets to whoever might be in the station and transfer or delete my toons, then delete the client for good... unless of course I'm pleasantly surprised. <-- Sadly I don't think this will be the case. ^ This. I feel exactly the same, but I'll wait until "gold ammo" makes its way into the game before I quit. I have too much time invested for me to just walk away. Even though that is what I would love to do. I unsubbed an alt for the very reasons you listed, but I keep my main because I still like EvE, just not CCP. It makes me sad :(
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2011.08.22 04:33:00 - [71] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 22/08/2011 04:36:06 Originally by: Mrs Pants I pay real money for both as I canÆt generate enough in game income to fund either of them anymore. you're doing it wrong then. I have 4 accounts (planning to merge 2 of them once 2 alts' skills are done) and I make 1 bil per week which is more than enough to fund them all 3 times per month. and i don't even need to log in half of the week... and this is very low and lazy income considering other posts on this forum. you really should try harder. like, you know, make 3 alts per acc with maxed industry skills, or something.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.08.22 06:34:00 - [72] Originally by: Ramalamadindong Since Incarna hit the numbers of players have been dropping and it's not just due to the summer turndown. It looks like a whole bunch of people just stopped playing and cancelled their accounts. Where did all these people go? Most likely to other games. Other games that they would have not considered had it not been for the poor deployment of Incarna and the bugs it brought with it. I know that I wouldn't have cancelled 2 of my 3 accounts and wouldn't be playing Perpetuum and WOT if not for Incarna. A lot of my friends from Eve have also migrated to these games and we all feel 'at home' there now. We have no plans to return and very few of us are talking about Eves winter expansion. Most of us are resigned to the fact that WiS is now the focus of CCPs efforts and know that the spaceship part has, more or less, reached the end of the road. I don't believe we will ever see true 'walking in stations' with 100's of characters on screen and vibrant stations with players milling about. It's all just a gimmick and marketing hype. After seeing how badly Incarna was implemented I, and many like me, have no faith that CCP can deliver anything but broken, half finished features. This and more. EvE suffered an increasing backload of issues whose long term effects are showing off all together. It all started with utterly lackluster and 0.0 laggy Dominion, then the "18 months" and many other publisher debatable choices and communications, expecially the negative change in attitude. From the relaxed, open minded relation with their customers we have seen preoccupying signals including: screwing the API dumps, removing game features (i.e. logs), pretending to demand to be paid by freeware 3rd party developers, imposing a totally "non EvE", "out if thin air for RL cash" shop and many, too many announcements that shown only greed, greed and more greed and bad consideration about the players. The final straw: totally lackluster WiS that "show the door" to those who cannot run it (else the computer could melt) as only alternative to the 3D environment. It's just too much and too together for the average player to withstand it. BTW I am one of those players who got hurt a lot (freeware 3rd party developer AND heavy API user) and who were pushed to the last decision (to quit all 5 accounts) by their completely and utterly terrible petition system. Horribad MMOs I play (with way smaller playerbase) grant solution to problems within 2-3 days, in EvE I had an issue answered after 1 month and after 2 months into it (escalations included), I got communicated nothing would be done. Hence my choice to leave. EvE is a fantastic game but CCP does not deserve my money any more. It's not a "can't pay" issue (I still have 4 subs in other MMOs) but "show your feedback in the only place (their wallet) where it hurts" decision. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Empy Ralt	Posted - 2011.08.22 06:44:00 - [73] A game goes into decline when the morale of the user-base makes it harder for them to overlook all the things that are broken and believe they will be addressed in a reasonably time-scale. The decline accelerates when people start noticing a lot of their friends are quitting. It is much easier to maintain a slow growth, show enthusiasm for your product and make it clear you have good things coming "soon" (tm) than to arrest a decline.
Zirise Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.08.22 08:45:00 - [74] The amount of self-righteous pussies in this thread is ridiculous. Get the **** out.
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.22 09:00:00 - [75] to OP: so your corp got dead and you can't pay for your 2 accounts because of "ship spinning" :D thanks for fun
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.22 11:26:00 - [76] Originally by: Forum Worrier Edited by: Forum Worrier on 22/08/2011 04:10:05 Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian It may be a case of a company growing too big for its start-up management style. Those ex-employee tales are horrendous, even allowing for some degree of bitterness. It sounds like CCP doesn't know its ass from its elbow atm. I don't mean CCP should stay small or anything like that, I mean it looks like they may need to change their management style and structure to a style more appropriate for a larger company. Bitter ex-employees are bitter, more news at 11. Meh, it's pretty believable. I'm not an expert on business studies or anything, but coincidentally, I've just been browsing through a book left in our studio by a business psychologist, and a huge part of it is about the "growing pains" of companies. Especially tech/entertianment companies start off with a bunch of "jolly companions", and then if they're successful they grow and get more employees. But there are broadly two further stages of growth they can go through, and because of the proprietoralness of the original founders, sometimes they don't get through the second stage of having to restructure the company in a more formal way to accommodate the growth in employees. It sounds exactly like what the ex-employees are talking about, so what they said strikes me as plausible in the context of what I've been reading about the subject. ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Maria Selms	Posted - 2011.08.22 12:20:00 - [77] Originally by: Lord Cheechin The stat that would be quite interesting is new player retention. Incarna so far (with the exception of course of the dreaded NEX Store) seems to be aimed almost exclusively at new/trial players and encouraging them to stay longer. This observation could be totally incorrect, but it is what I see at any rate. Has this been successful? Are more trial accounts being converted to paying subscriptions? Are new accounts staying longer on average? Or is it too early to tell? So putting all other concerns aside for the moment, and assuming that Incarna so far has been for the new guys and improving the chances of them staying past trial, could it be working? I am a new player I can give you some of my thoughts on this. After, a few days of crashes I ended up turning off the Captains Quarters, due to instability I have a windows 7 64bit, an I7 processor and an ATI 4870x2 card 12 gigs of ram, my machine would crash hard frequently, since turning off the captains quarters the client is much more stable for me. There are lots of really annoying bugs that i would not expect in a game of this age and reputation to have such as gate noises never going away. Lots of graphics glitches, UI very unorganised and non-responsive. That said there seems to be a core to the game that has me intrigued, although I am not a loyalist as many of the old timers here seem to be, the intrigue I have is not enough to keep me playing a lot, itÆs already a second game for me. If somebody was to ask me for my opinion on the game outside of the forums, I would say itÆs an unfinished product, although it has potential, game play is incredibly deep, and the community very strong. In fact the strength of the community is the only thing that says this game is 8 years old.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.22 15:37:00 - [78] Originally by: Zirise The amount of self-righteous pussies in this thread is ridiculous. Get the **** out. Amen. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
What Isdees	Posted - 2011.08.22 16:46:00 - [79] Originally by: Umad Bro Questionmark I'm just posting this because my sig is appropriate to the topic at hand. That's how you guys look. Nice sig: Please ensure your signature is within the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24,000 bytes. Navigator are YOU mad bro?
Mrs Pants	Posted - 2011.08.22 20:26:00 - [80] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 22/08/2011 04:36:06 Originally by: Mrs Pants I pay real money for both as I canÆt generate enough in game income to fund either of them anymore. you're doing it wrong then. I have 4 accounts (planning to merge 2 of them once 2 alts' skills are done) and I make 1 bil per week which is more than enough to fund them all 3 times per month. and i don't even need to log in half of the week... and this is very low and lazy income considering other posts on this forum. you really should try harder. like, you know, make 3 alts per acc with maxed industry skills, or something. Hey poster I have friends and family and a job. I am not "trying harder" at something that I no longer enjoy and I no longer enjoy it most of the poeple I enjoyed playing it with gave up with it. I don't want to earn billions I want to enjoy the game.
Mrs Pants	Posted - 2011.08.22 20:31:00 - [81] Originally by: Miss Rabblt to OP: so your corp got dead and you can't pay for your 2 accounts because of "ship spinning" :D thanks for fun Nice use of standard ccp response ticker. You stuck your fingers in your eyes and LALALALA'd your way through my post and felt the urge to ridicule it because well hey that makes you feel good right?
James Razor Amarr Fallen Angel's White Noise.	Posted - 2011.08.22 20:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Mrs Pants Originally by: Miss Rabblt to OP: so your corp got dead and you can't pay for your 2 accounts because of "ship spinning" :D thanks for fun Nice use of standard ccp response ticker. You stuck your fingers in your eyes and LALALALA'd your way through my post and felt the urge to ridicule it because well hey that makes you feel good right? Just ignore him tbh. He does not deserve to get answered to. He and his kind will soon be the only ones left to play. And they suddenly they will realise how bad this game is without the rest of us.
Ai Mei Starfish Operating Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.22 21:02:00 - [83] Originally by: Herping yourDerp alliance tournament broke the PCU record last year, this year it was like 45k last year it was like 65k eve isn't struggling The reason no one stuck around to watch the alliance tournament this year was because after the first rounds, everyone saw it was a rigged tournament, as teams were throwing matches, self destructing, bribing. Honestly this was by far the worst alliance tournament ever. // stopped watching after round one and seeing 4 matches being thrown. // didnt even watch the final /// thinks the tournament should have been redone and all the teams that meta gamed to the top should be banned from future tournaments.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.22 21:32:00 - [84] Quote: Just ignore him tbh. He does not deserve to get answered to. He and his kind will soon be the only ones left to play. And they suddenly they will realise how bad this game is without the rest of us. Its been going seriously ****ing great for me ever since Incarna, I can only hope and pray you are right. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.22 22:25:00 - [85] If you want to be realistic, CCP was painted into a corner by their decision to run EVE as a 'Single Server MMO' with a dynamic player centralized economy. EVE was an experiment and it has grown more then the founders of CCP probably believed possible. Tranquility can not really handle a much greater population then what was present 18 months ago and CCP knows how the player base treats any new power their hardware provides. Couple that with the business world motto 'If you are not growing you are dying' CCP clearly saw that their only true option was to diversify their game titles and increase their market share. All who disagree with CCP's decision to proceed in the fashion that they have, must at least acknowledge that it is not an incorrect business decision? It may have been improperly handled; most likely so. The degree of the damage has not been truly been determined and whether or not the damage coudl be sustained. I will at least state that I have hope that CCP is just using this as a 'test bed' and will revert to their glorious past once DUST and WOD grow some roots. I cross my fingers that once MT go live in DUST they will be removed from EVE and everything CCP wants us to have the option to wear, when Incarna hits in full, will be turned over to the players to produce. I can afford this small hobby and since I was not one of the honored vets that got to experience the glory days of EVE, I will hold on with a prayer. I will even go on to say that EVE could still keep the MT if the players made the items but CCP let players use MT's to adjust colors and patterns for all in station items. :tinfoil: CCP knew that they were going to lose up to 20% of the server population at peak times due to their plans and therefore were prepared for this exodus. They also know that once they get things cleaned up in a year or two the remaining player base will get a much less laggy experience for a little while. At which point CCP will see a server spike yet again :tinfoil: Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.22 23:03:00 - [86] Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: Just ignore him tbh. He does not deserve to get answered to. He and his kind will soon be the only ones left to play. And they suddenly they will realise how bad this game is without the rest of us. Its been going seriously ****ing great for me ever since Incarna, I can only hope and pray you are right. hmmm you hope and pray for the death of your favorite game? Do you HONESTLY (if that isnt a foreign word to you) think that is everyone other than your kind leaves that CCP wont go "Well THAT game is dead, lets go into full production mode on WoD"? -------- Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.08.23 00:56:00 - [87] Originally by: Slade Trillgon If you want to be realistic, CCP was painted into a corner by their decision to run EVE as a 'Single Server MMO' with a dynamic player centralized economy. EVE was an experiment and it has grown more then the founders of CCP probably believed possible. I don't see how this has painted CCP into a corner. I understand there are hardware limitations that must be weighed against costs. But, they're going to run Dust514 on top of the same hardware. Sounds to me like they have room to grow. As for the economy, I don't see how a player run economy is a limiting factor. It's another aspect of a game that gives people something to do. Quote: All who disagree with CCP's decision to proceed in the fashion that they have, must at least acknowledge that it is not an incorrect business decision? It may have been improperly handled; most likely so. The degree of the damage has not been truly been determined and whether or not the damage coudl be sustained. Noone but the most principled disagrees with CCP's decision to diversify. However, many of us are extremely disappointed with the manner that they've chosen to do so which is more or less at our expense. At least, that's how many people perceive it. A NeX store that noone but the most affluent of the player base can actually participate in save for the rare occurrence. A WiS vision made reality. The only problem is that vision stops at a door, is a bugged iteration, is detrimental to game performance and some hardware. I don't know about you but, when I dock which might be frequently, might not, I don't want to have to load CQ every time. It's time consuming and hardware intensive just so I can drop off/pick/refit something. And to top it off CCP has increased various aspects of expansions from 6mos, to 18mos, to 60mos.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.23 01:19:00 - [88] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: Just ignore him tbh. He does not deserve to get answered to. He and his kind will soon be the only ones left to play. And they suddenly they will realise how bad this game is without the rest of us. Its been going seriously ****ing great for me ever since Incarna, I can only hope and pray you are right. hmmm you hope and pray for the death of your favorite game? Do you HONESTLY (if that isnt a foreign word to you) think that is everyone other than your kind leaves that CCP wont go "Well THAT game is dead, lets go into full production mode on WoD"? You assume EvE is dying. I am selling ships. I am selling ore. I am selling Ice. I am selling PI. I am getting shot at in the process. I am having fun. There are at least 40,000 other people who are doing something at the same time as me. If you honestly think there are less players on the server since Incarna, I will totally give you that. If you honestly think Eve is dying you are a tool of the nth degree. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.23 13:12:00 - [89] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 23/08/2011 13:15:58 Originally by: Mr Kidd Originally by: Slade Trillgon If you want to be realistic, CCP was painted into a corner by their decision to run EVE as a 'Single Server MMO' with a dynamic player centralized economy. EVE was an experiment and it has grown more then the founders of CCP probably believed possible. I don't see how this has painted CCP into a corner. I understand there are hardware limitations that must be weighed against costs. But, they're going to run Dust514 on top of the same hardware. Sounds to me like they have room to grow. As for the economy, I don't see how a player run economy is a limiting factor. It's another aspect of a game that gives people something to do. It could also sound like they have overestimated their resources, but I will succeed the point that your opinion could be as probable. As for the player dominated market, I would say it is a limiting factor as many people in the MMO demographic are intimidated by that level of player effect on game state. But you could also be correct again with this point. Originally by: Mr Kidd Originally by: Slade Trillgon All who disagree with CCP's decision to proceed in the fashion that they have, must at least acknowledge that it is not an incorrect business decision? It may have been improperly handled; most likely so. The degree of the damage has not been truly determined and whether or not the damage ~~could~~ will be ~~stained~~ 'EVE is Dead' worthy will take years to determine. No one but the most principled disagrees with CCP's decision to diversify. However, many of us are extremely disappointed with the manner that they've chosen to do so which is more or less at our expense. At least, that's how many people perceive it. A NeX store that noone but the most affluent of the player base can actually participate in save for the rare occurrence. A WiS vision made reality. The only problem is that vision stops at a door, is a bugged iteration, is detrimental to game performance and some hardware. I don't know about you but, when I dock which might be frequently, might not, I don't want to have to load CQ every time. It's time consuming and hardware intensive just so I can drop off/pick/refit something. And to top it off CCP has increased various aspects of expansions from 6mos, to 18mos, to 60mos. I agree with most of what you said, as I included the bolded sentence above. EDIT: In then end I still think the experiment is alive and kicking and plan on sticking around till the servers shut or I am 'hit by a bus.' Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Not-Apsalar	Posted - 2011.08.23 13:35:00 - [90] Oh look, it's this thread again
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.24 17:41:00 - [91] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 24/08/2011 17:41:50 Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: Just ignore him tbh. He does not deserve to get answered to. He and his kind will soon be the only ones left to play. And they suddenly they will realise how bad this game is without the rest of us. Its been going seriously **ing great for me ever since Incarna, I can only hope and pray you are right. hmmm you hope and pray for the death of your favorite game? Do you HONESTLY (if that isnt a foreign word to you) think that is everyone other than your kind leaves that CCP wont go "Well THAT game is dead, lets go into full production mode on WoD"? You assume EvE is dying. I am selling ships. I am selling ore. I am selling Ice. I am selling PI. I am getting shot at in the process. I am having fun. There are at least 40,000 other people who are doing something at the same time as me. If you honestly think there are less players on the server since Incarna, I will totally give you that. If you honestly think Eve is dying you are a tool of the nth degree. GJ failing at reading. Point out where I said EVE is currently dying versus saying that if they ** off all the high sec players enough those 80% of the players will leave whereupon what I said above would happen. You didnt get it the first time so I dont expect you to get it the second tho. 30k players currently on.... neat how ppl ayways say its 40k tho -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
daddys helper	Posted - 2011.08.24 19:54:00 - [92] so refresh my memory here tell me again what 8+ year old games have a climbing population
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.24 21:42:00 - [93] Originally by: daddys helper so refresh my memory here tell me again what 8+ year old games have a climbing population yes... so declining population is the norm. so what happens when it hits zero? If decline is the norm eventually you will hit zero... -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Thurasi Agalder	Posted - 2011.08.24 22:28:00 - [94] I have some questions regarding the devblog link: 1) Will processing ship modules that contain rare minerals like megacyte change in any way if the module was obtained in high security space? 2) What happens to those who reside in high security space, but own T2 ships like the Wolf? Thurasi
Rumplefink	Posted - 2011.08.25 04:31:00 - [95] Don't call me Shirley.

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