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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path
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Posted - 2011.08.25 12:23:00 -
[1]
Greetings, Summit!
I am forming a sect of the Amarrian religion which is, admittedly, radically more liberal than that of even the most liberal Amarrians. I understand that I will probably be labelled as a heretic and shunned by the Empire pilots. I also understand that my bringing of the Amarrian religion (no matter what crazy liberal form it may be in) will also be frowned upon by most Matari. But alas, this is what I feel I must do.
My corporation, Crimson Path, will reside in Republic space and peacefully spread God's words to the impoverished and needy. As I've also said many times in the public sphere, I am against slavery. This is because I believe in principle forcing someone to accept a religion may in fact yield the reverse of what was intended: disbeilef. Would God approve and think it just if an entire people atre enslaved and misery brought upon them? Most surely not, for God is omnibenevolent. And so my sect will oppose slavery while at the same time encouraging faith. Bringing change from within the Empire is slow and my voice in that nation very weak. My hope now is my own bredren and sistren will listen to me.
The long and short of it is: I kneel to God and will fight for the people.
Peace be upon you all!
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N'maro Makari
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2011.08.25 15:30:00 -
[2]
You're over a year late my friend, some of the Nefantar and Starkmanir have been doing what you are proposing for some time. Their efforts have yielded little success. I'm afraid your aims will not be acheived in your lifetime, the scars are still showing.
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Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.08.25 16:41:00 -
[3]
Calling you heretic would eventually be calling Abel Jarek a heretic. Your beliefs are the same.
This is a delicate mission. If you do it good, you can open minds and hearts. If you do it wrong, you will only feed fire and and hate. Abek Jarek own work was mitigated, until he was killed and turned into a martyr. Now, his ideals remain in the Republic and have their followers. |
Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path
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Posted - 2011.08.25 16:45:00 -
[4]
I knew that name was familiar! He was a great man.
Unlike Abel Jarek, however, I am a capsuleer. I'll be able to contact significantly more people at any given time than he. I must tread carefully, but I am confident that I can pull this off.
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N'maro Makari
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2011.08.25 16:54:00 -
[5]
Well, I wish you luck, but I warn you the opinions of even the most open minded Matari at this time can be summed up in two words: "Not convinced".
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path
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Posted - 2011.08.25 16:57:00 -
[6]
Thank you. I do know of the innate hostility towards the Amarrian faith many Minmatar have. I figure even if I can't bring them into (the odd, more liberal version of) the fold I can at least demonstrate that not all of faith support slavery. When I'm alongside them in their efforts, they may understand that we are all equally children of God.
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Ston Momaki
Caldari Disciples of Ston
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Posted - 2011.08.25 18:40:00 -
[7]
Dear brother, Since you are willing to bear the brands that will be pressed upon you because of this effort, I pray that you will be a bold redactor of the Amarr Scriptures, especially the Book of Reclaiming. I hope you will discern those texts which were and are inventions of man to further injustice from those that contain divine spark and indeed reflect the omnibenevolence of our creator.
Peace to you. Ston
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ValentinaDLM
Minmatar Ubi Concordia Ibi Victoria
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Posted - 2011.08.25 20:25:00 -
[8]
Kneel to god and fight for the people? but aren't you trying to fight for the wrong people?
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path
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Posted - 2011.08.25 20:45:00 -
[9]
What do you mean "wrong" people? All peoples being equal under God, I really don't see what you're getting at..
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James Syagrius
Gallente Advent Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.08.25 21:45:00 -
[10]
Well personally I wish you well Jaiga. Being a believer is not an easy path. But then itÆs not supposed to be. I would caution you to tread carefully; the Republic is less tolerant than it used to be. As I recall the last fellow that tried what your doing was named Oland Jan.
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Malcolm Khross
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.08.25 22:21:00 -
[11]
Huh. Good on you, Jaiga. Difficult steps to take, but perhaps they will yield positive results in the future. ~~~~~~~~~~~
Captain Mal Khross |
Laerise
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.08.26 13:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lyn Farel Calling you heretic would eventually be calling Abel Jarek a heretic. Your beliefs are the same.
This is a delicate mission. If you do it good, you can open minds and hearts. If you do it wrong, you will only feed fire and and hate. Abek Jarek own work was mitigated, until he was killed and turned into a martyr. Now, his ideals remain in the Republic and have their followers.
Putting things into peoples mouths again, I see. I'm sure your 'grandmaster' is peeling a banana for his pet monkey already.
To my knowledge Jarek never opposed slavery as an institution, to do so is nonsense and shows a lack of proper devotion to the one true faith. _______ "Surround yourself with the faithful, Stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens." - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 71:21 |
Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path
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Posted - 2011.08.26 17:05:00 -
[13]
Regardless, I am against slavery and so too will my sect be. In fact, I view the Minmatar of the Republic as bredren and sistren and will assist them in freeing enslaved Minmatar across the cluster.
As was pointed out to me by a wise Matari shaman, every liberal person of faith faces some difficult decisions. They can support the Empire (and thus support a slave-holding state. Not to mention rogue elements of the Empire still raid Republic space for slaves, even if it is without offical consent) and hope for change to come from within (which, historically speaking, has been slow at best). Or they can expedite the process from the outside by placing political and social pressure on the Empire. I opt for this latter option, and in so doing recognize that I'll be branded a heretic and will be considered an enemy of the Empire. So be it.
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Lucius Vindictus
Amarr East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.08.26 18:21:00 -
[14]
I have never met you, but from what I've seen on this summit it would seem that you have had both Sansha and Sani Sabik sympathies in the past. The former of the two you have (recently) publicly renounced.
If you have genuinely converted to the Amarr religion, don't you think it is a little too early to start preaching it yourself?
Logs |
Malcolm Khross
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.08.26 18:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Laerise
Originally by: Lyn Farel Calling you heretic would eventually be calling Abel Jarek a heretic. Your beliefs are the same.
This is a delicate mission. If you do it good, you can open minds and hearts. If you do it wrong, you will only feed fire and and hate. Abek Jarek own work was mitigated, until he was killed and turned into a martyr. Now, his ideals remain in the Republic and have their followers.
Putting things into peoples mouths again, I see. I'm sure your 'grandmaster' is peeling a banana for his pet monkey already.
To my knowledge Jarek never opposed slavery as an institution, to do so is nonsense and shows a lack of proper devotion to the one true faith.
Huh, funny thing this. Only person I see putting words in people's mouths here is you, lassie.
According to what I'm seeing on public records, everything Farel said here is accurate. Only problem being, you decided to take issue with her opening statement and pull from it whatever you felt like pulling. ~~~~~~~~~~~
Captain Mal Khross |
Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path
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Posted - 2011.08.26 18:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lucius Vindictus I have never met you, but from what I've seen on this summit it would seem that you have had both Sansha and Sani Sabik sympathies in the past. The former of the two you have (recently) publicly renounced.
If you have genuinely converted to the Amarr religion, don't you think it is a little too early to start preaching it yourself?
While I only publicly renounced one, I have in practice renounced the other (seeing as I've shot at many Covenant ships in an attempt to get my security status raised).
As for concerns about my qualifications, seeing as this is a unique, radically liberal sect that I am inventing I'd imagine I'm qualified, yes. I am quite good at finding syncreticisms of religions, after all.
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Jason Galente
Gallente mishima ryu
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Posted - 2011.08.26 18:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Laerise
..never opposed slavery as an institution, to do so is nonsense and shows a lack of proper devotion to the one true faith.
Listen to yourself. What does a secular practice have to do with faith?
I am not for slavery, I am not against slavery. But from what I can see, there are far better answers to things like this than 'I do it because God says to' Bull.
The above is the author's personal opinion and may not represent the opinion of his CEO. |
Ston Momaki
Caldari Disciples of Ston
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Posted - 2011.08.26 19:48:00 -
[18]
FENCE RIDING MUST STOP
To claim that one is neither for slavery nor against it is to take the side in favor of it. As long as slavery is tolerated, it is enabled. In ancient earth legend, an abolitionist leader once said, "Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." It is so safe for intellectuals to ride the fence, when they are not being injected with toxins and vitoc. It is time to slide off the fence people. Be more than anti-slavery; be abolitionist. We must objectify our religion with justice! Anything short of this is false.
The Disciples of Ston
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Malcolm Khross
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.08.26 19:55:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Malcolm Khross on 26/08/2011 19:55:48 Shiny.
Agreed on what you're saying, love. However, I must take issue with this statement:
Originally by: Ston Momaki
To claim that one is neither for slavery nor against it is to take the side in favor of it.
Logical fallacy, see? The original statement means, "I am not actively working for or against slavery." Which, by the by, is a completely possible, logical and factual statement. Not actively working against slavery does not automatically make someone actively supporting it, no matter how strongly you feel it does, it simply doesn't, savvy?
Making a call for abolition and trying to get everyone riled up against it be shiny, far as it concerns me, but to claim that everyone must take an active side in it simply because you think they must is nothing short of exerting influential dominance over them.
There's a word for that somewhere...oh yeah, slavery. ~~~~~~~~~~~
Captain Mal Khross |
Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path
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Posted - 2011.08.26 20:19:00 -
[20]
It has been brought up by my friend Tiberious Thessalonia that I am not well-versed in theology. While I could go ahead and start the sect project anyway, out of respect for professional clerics and theologians I will wait until I'm versed in such things before I begin preaching it. With that being said, Crimson Path will still aid the Matari in the emancipation of slaves as part of the TLF.
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Ston Momaki
Caldari Disciples of Ston
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Posted - 2011.08.26 22:02:00 -
[21]
Don't sell yourself short, Mr. Jaiga. Theology is a slippery thing. Prior to VakÆAtioth the Amarr theologians had all certainly convinced that their interpretation of the Reclamation was correct and most assuredly their God would hand the Jovians into their possession right then and there. The theological establishment is just as speculative as the new comer. The hermeneutic of the establishment is not correct just because it is established. Please do become versed in theology but please do not become conformed to the theological establishment.
Ston
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Malcolm Khross
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.08.26 22:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ston Momaki Don't sell yourself short, Mr. Jaiga. Theology is a slippery thing. Prior to VakÆAtioth the Amarr theologians had all certainly convinced that their interpretation of the Reclamation was correct and most assuredly their God would hand the Jovians into their possession right then and there. The theological establishment is just as speculative as the new comer. The hermeneutic of the establishment is not correct just because it is established. Please do become versed in theology but please do not become conformed to the theological establishment.
Ston
Now this? This be something I can agree with to me fullest. ~~~~~~~~~~~
Captain Mal Khross |
Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.08.26 23:11:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Lyn Farel on 26/08/2011 23:11:44
Originally by: Malcolm Khross
Originally by: Laerise
Originally by: Lyn Farel Calling you heretic would eventually be calling Abel Jarek a heretic. Your beliefs are the same.
This is a delicate mission. If you do it good, you can open minds and hearts. If you do it wrong, you will only feed fire and and hate. Abek Jarek own work was mitigated, until he was killed and turned into a martyr. Now, his ideals remain in the Republic and have their followers.
Putting things into peoples mouths again, I see. I'm sure your 'grandmaster' is peeling a banana for his pet monkey already.
To my knowledge Jarek never opposed slavery as an institution, to do so is nonsense and shows a lack of proper devotion to the one true faith.
Huh, funny thing this. Only person I see putting words in people's mouths here is you, lassie.
According to what I'm seeing on public records, everything Farel said here is accurate. Only problem being, you decided to take issue with her opening statement and pull from it whatever you felt like pulling.
I do not know. She may well be right on the fact that Abel Jarek never publicly opposed slavery, while Mr Jaiga is.
Though she definitly looks obsessed with monkeys and bananas. |
Malcolm Khross
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.08.27 01:28:00 -
[24]
Nay, according to public record, he was a former slave himself, see? Which means he likely taught the merits of slavery, which is also - logically speaking - probably what garnered him the not-so-wells of his people, savvy?
The point I was making is that you made a blanket statement about the similarities between Jaiga and Jerak and she chose to pick out one, very specific, point of disalignment to aggressively attack everything you said.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Captain Mal Khross |
Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.08.27 13:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcolm Khross
The point I was making is that you made a blanket statement about the similarities between Jaiga and Jerak and she chose to pick out one, very specific, point of disalignment to aggressively attack everything you said.
Nothing unusual. |
Mitara Newelle
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.08.27 18:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Rek Jaiga With that being said, Crimson Path will still aid the Matari in the emancipation of slaves as part of the TLF.
I'd say your pathetic attempts at redemption in the Faith have failed utterly with this course of action.
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Conventia Underking
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.08.27 21:45:00 -
[27]
I am appalled at the way our Faith is being twisted to justify your actions.
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path
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Posted - 2011.08.28 01:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: PIE Inc. Members
How dare you imply our interpretation of Scripture is wrong?! Our reasoning is infallible, and our knowledge of God's mind and will complete! Now, bend over slave-boy!
Did I catch the gist?
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Kithrus
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.28 02:00:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Kithrus on 28/08/2011 02:01:38
Originally by: Rek Jaiga
Originally by: PIE Inc. Members
How dare you imply our interpretation of Scripture is wrong?! Our reasoning is infallible, and our knowledge of God's mind and will complete! Now, bend over slave-boy!
Did I catch the gist?
Say what you like about most Amarrians but lest we have the courage to stand up and do the unpopular thing. Not bending the scriptures or the laws in effort to be either well liked or more welcomed.
It seems there is an over hyped movement of pilots who think they can be the diet quafe of Amarrians removing what they see as a hindrance on their social lives.
Frankly if for example I was on the front lines and the doctor with limited equipment had to heal me. I'd rather him say 'Listen this is going to hurt like Gods wrath but its for your own good.' Rather then pansy footing around the wound which only is getting worse by him taking his sweet time since hes afraid to hurt me or my feelings.
You want to deliver Gods message? Do as its intended. You want to heal old harms caused by those who ignored the scripture and just exploited the Matari be my guest. You want to help abused slaves? Sure all the power to you in fact I'll even help with a care package to go with them so they have a shot at a good life.
But don't you come here and water down the faith just so you can attend a public event without getting sneered at.
I maybe cold when it comes to the faith but lest I'm man enough to admit it.
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Rek Jaiga
Minmatar Crimson Path
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Posted - 2011.08.28 02:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kithrus
Frankly if for example I was on the front lines and the doctor with limited equipment had to heal me. I'd rather him say 'Listen this is going to hurt like Gods wrath but its for your own good.' Rather then pansy footing around the wound which only is getting worse by him taking his sweet time since hes afraid to hurt me or my feelings.
A spurious analogy at best, but OK. Healing a wound doesn't have the same magnitude as taking away a person's freedom.
Originally by: Kithrus
But don't you come here and water down the faith just so you can attend a public event without getting sneered at.
Because I'm totally not getting sneered at constantly, right? Think about it: I'm a Minmatar who aids the Republic. Right off the bat, about 99% of Empire supporters sneer at me. But wait, it gets better! I also attempt to bring God's word to those in the Republic. Guess what? That doesn't make me too popular among a lot of hard-line anti-theist Matari either. So if you think I'm doing this as a PR move to become more popular, you're quite mistaken.
As for "watering down" the faith, I am simply stating what I believe. There are some (read also: most) that believe in a vengeful God who only answers the door of salvation once.
And then there is me, who views God as omnibenevolent (doesn't encourage the enslavement and suffering of a whole race of people) and oft-forgiving (for we are surely insignificant and imperfect compared to The Creator, and He sees this).
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