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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2011.08.31 13:24:00 -
[1]
CCP Ginger's newest dev blog discusses the many positive changes that are coming in the next EVElopedia beta. Be sure to check out his blog here, and if you're interested in helping the EVElopedia team, YARR is currently looking for volunteers.
Update: For those of you interested in the Immersion Project, we've ninja added something about it at the end of the blog :)
Fallout
Associate Community Manager
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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inexistin
Rubbish and Garbage Removal
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Posted - 2011.08.31 13:34:00 -
[2]
Edited by: inexistin on 31/08/2011 13:52:01
Edited by: inexistin on 31/08/2011 13:51:30
Interesting. Make it wide (not like in the second picture, where 1/3 to 1/2 of the screen is used to show me nightmares instead of information) and you'll be involuntarilly making it awesome as well.
Edit: WTT awesome lvl 6 MS Paint skills for clarity
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Small-scale pew pew!? Lies, yo' blob is on intel!!1 |
Fia Masutra
Central Inventions Agency
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Posted - 2011.08.31 13:43:00 -
[3]
1. Nice to see this getting some attention again. I always thought the EVElopedia to be underutilized. Looking forward to good articles and portals.
2. Stop wasting everyone's screen space with your narrow design.
(It doesn't make your content look bigger.)
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Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:01:00 -
[4]
Sounds good, I am mostly interested in the "immersion" project and how well it will tie in within eve itself the old blog about it and the bit of information we got showed promise.
I hope the immersion project is more then a large scale wiki though. They wiki is great for info but I am hoping on a more RP/Immersion athmosphere for the immersion project.
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Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara f japanska tfskuverslun.
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Hawks Eye
Gallente
Inroads
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:27:00 -
[5]
<3
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Palovana
Caldari
Inner Fire Inc.
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:29:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: CCP Ginger in the Dev Blog
The rules arenÆt that complex, but basically boil down to "donÆt be a wanker."
There are plenty of people (in-game) who make it their goal to be as much of a wanker as possible.
Why is "wanker" censored but "tosser", "jackoff", "jerkoff", "masturbator" not?
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CCP is still under the misconception that by waving a bunch of (NeX store items) in our faces, we'll give in to our urges and (buy) them. Bring back the hangar view and its functionality! |
Pak Narhoo
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:41:00 -
[7]
why, oh why do you waste so much space on A HUGE STUPID BANNER in your wiki?
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Senai Dorslan
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:41:00 -
[8]
Not only is it good to see this is progressing, this was an enjoyable blog read. Taking the tone of equals as opposed to how some other blogs have sounded a bit as if they are talking down to the customers, is how I like to see these.
I have wondered if the wiki was even being updated at all. This will help out lots of players immensely, especially the fact that they will be using content from other sources and linking to them. A big step in the right direction.
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WachinDaGame DrinkinABud
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:43:00 -
[9]
Was this on that list of stuff to fix even? Seems to me there are enough third party sources to cover this information already.
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Efraya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:52:00 -
[10]
Everyone loves a re-worked back end ;-)
Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist |
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CCP Abraxas
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ciar Meara
I hope the immersion project is more then a large scale wiki though. They wiki is great for info but I am hoping on a more RP/Immersion athmosphere for the immersion project.
The Immersion Project is definitely more than that, but the very first part we launch will be an out-of-game large scale wiki section. Once we've hammered out the kinks in the fiction wiki, iterated on it and gotten it stable, we'll move on to the in-game part.
Incidentally, note that the core of the project is and likely will remain the wiki, which holds all the lore - not the in-game part, which is intended to function primarily as a roleplayed portal to the wiki. We may eventually do some other clever things with the in-game section, but they're not the point of the whole project.
I'll do a separate dev blog on the Immersion Project later on.
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Tork Norand
Mechanical Eagles Inc.
The Ancients.
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:10:00 -
[12]
I concur with others....get rid of the extra graphics that add nothing to the content that you are providing within the articles.
<engage rant style mode>
If I have to scroll 2/3 the way through a page load just to get to useful information, the site is useless to me. Background images and banner images waste time as they load. If I were in the "real Eve universe" I would have a blocker in place for that crap. I already play the game, I already look forward to what's coming out, I don't need it shoved down my throat with big pictures that waste my time and screen space.
<disengage rant style mode>
Use the new Google model: Short, simple links across the top to different things that open in different tabs. Just because I want something else doesn't mean I want to leave where I'm at. You have tabbed browsers in the game and out, use them. Middle mouse buttons in a browser by default (in my experience) open things in a new tab....but not in the in-game browser. So make new links open in a new tab by default.
(Sorry, can't seem to let the graphics topic alone....) Adding graphics to a "look-up site" doesn't make it sexy....good information presented concisely makes a "look-up site" sexy.
--Tork Norand, CEO. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Fia Masutra
2. Stop wasting everyone's screen space with your narrow design.
(It doesn't make your content look bigger.)
I don't agree, it's much easier on the eyes to not have to span the entire screen when you read something. Why do you think newspapers have their text in columns and not just right over the entire page?
___________
Interested in incursions? Join Helios Research! |
Ifly Uwalk
Caldari
Concentrated Evil
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fia Masutra
Stop wasting everyone's screen space with your narrow design.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:25:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 31/08/2011 15:27:03
Seems like a bunch of cool changes, with one exception. Fixed-width is stupid. It was stupid when you used it for Eve Gate, it was stupid when you used it for the new forums, and it's stupid on Evelopedia. Stop using fixed-width for anything ever - I have a widescreen monitor, and I want to use more than a third of my available space for content, not slow-loading backdrops. I'm kind of indifferent on the visual changes, but if you're going to make changes please stop destroying my functionality in the process.
Originally by: Daedalus II
Originally by: Fia Masutra
2. Stop wasting everyone's screen space with your narrow design.
(It doesn't make your content look bigger.)
I don't agree, it's much easier on the eyes to not have to span the entire screen when you read something. Why do you think newspapers have their text in columns and not just right over the entire page?
Because newspapers want to put large numbers of articles on a very big sheet of paper? Also, newspapers predate computer layout software, and columns had to have been easier for manual layout, so I'd wager that inertia is a big factor too. And have you ever seen a newspaper website with columns?
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:33:00 -
[16]
It is great that the wiki is being given some love. The quality of the articles is such that I send new players there instead of external resources now. However...
Originally by: inexistin
WTT awesome lvl 6 MS Paint skills for clarity
This.
Too much space wasted on pictures and banners.
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"When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object |
Publius Valerius
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:53:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Publius Valerius on 31/08/2011 16:05:00
A stupid question: Will the backround be black or #222?, because on the pic it is #222...
Second Question can be found here.
Third Question is about the width, on EVE gate, the page doesnt broke when it gets smaller... I like it... will be it the same in Evelopedia?.. I ask because currently I have this temporary help.
Forth Question: About the Iteam-icons... their still the old ones... thats why I couldnt change the LP Stores... is their a update comeing as well?
Fifth Question, again about the width... what will be the max-width on a page... because we have currently a lot of pages which just really need this extra width.. like: here (with max-width:1200px)
Sixth Question about the Portals...
"Implemented a content portal system
We are implementing a portal system to make it easier to navigate around various subjects, something we were really lacking before. Hunting for something specific is fine, but trying to find all the help you can on mining or PvP can be laborious. WeÆve started the portal system in this release and hopefully the some of you will come on board and help us expand it post release."
What will be?.. more like CSM Portal or Community Portal with alot of infos.. or more a spiderweb portal... with just the basics?
____________________________
Edit:
Seventh Question I almost forgot... can be found here (is a old one, P.S.s the links of the Chron Signs of Faith are gone:(... can be found here).
P.S. skip the banner, I think it wasnt also in the new forum.. if I remember right... but this isnt the issue what I have.... It is that the colors like #17181A, #222, #3e3d45 etc... define he EVE-Look... and not the banner. That banner makes just all pages identical at first sight...
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Ugleb
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:53:00 -
[18]
I'm a long time fan of the EVElopedia and the more it gets integrated into the game client the better IMO.
Its good to hear that the community hosted wikis are going to be integrated too, that should greatly increase the number and quality of articles.
The Journal; Walking The Road To Liberation |
SuHwak
Trust is Value
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:54:00 -
[19]
Edited by: SuHwak on 31/08/2011 16:04:34
Edited by: SuHwak on 31/08/2011 16:01:44
Originally by: Andrea Griffin
It is great that the wiki is being given some love. The quality of the articles is such that I send new players there instead of external resources now. However...
Originally by: inexistin
WTT awesome lvl 6 MS Paint skills for clarity
This.
Too much space wasted on pictures and banners.
I do not really agree, I hate having to go find the right next sentence when text is streched out over 1600+ pixels wide. He probably has something like a 1680x1024 resolution, or maybe even higher. However, you would want to be able to read this page in-game and on smaller screens as well!
EDIT: Example site doing the same thing. This is my #1 fav site:
Narrow
Wide
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Diplomacy: Telling someone to go to hell in such a way, that he looks forward to the trip. |
Hiram Alexander
Caldari
Capital Enrichment Services
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:59:00 -
[20]
Personally, I approve of the narrow column design. I know a lot of people will dislike it, and see it as a waste of real-estate, but it is far easier on the eye to read.
What I hate... Is the huge ad banner at the top. It's truly pointless; could you possibly ask your Marketing people to take a step back from time to time, it's a wiki ffs... And besides, why are you still advertising the Incursion expansion anyway?
To me, the only thing more important than actual 'information' in a wiki, is clearly understandable (and functional) navigation. For a lot of people, that banner ad is going to take up almost all of their window when they read the wiki in-game.
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Myxx
Atropos Group
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Posted - 2011.08.31 16:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ifly Uwalk
Originally by: Fia Masutra
Stop wasting everyone's screen space with your narrow design.
--
Originally by: CCP Explorer
(and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye).
Originally by: Tom Gerard
Then again... I am a moron.
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DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
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Posted - 2011.08.31 16:16:00 -
[22]
Lots of negative comments about CCP since june.
I'm glad this is a change I'm very happy about! We can almost say: EVE has a manual! 
Lets hope this is the start of a new positive wave of improvements to EVE. I'm tired of ranting at CCP, instead give me more stuff to congratulate you on.
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Officer Spawn
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Posted - 2011.08.31 16:25:00 -
[23]
I've noticed something peculiar on the recent patch notes and dev blogs: everything could just as easily be for World of Darkness. API export, forums, a wiki, a MMO Facebook clone, clothes, your Captain's Quarters, none of it is even remotely related to EVE Online.
Is this what you are trying to keep out of the CSM Summit minutes, that all EVE development is now limited to stuff that can also be used in WoD ?
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Jareck Hunter
Rubicon Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.31 16:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: inexistin
Interesting. Make it wide (not like in the second picture, where 1/3 to 1/2 of the screen is used to show me nightmares instead of information) and you'll be involuntarilly making it awesome as well.
Edit: WTT awesome lvl 6 MS Paint skills for clarity
This,
everything else, thumbs up!
-------------------------------------------------
Sorry for my bad english^^ |
Sarmatiko
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Posted - 2011.08.31 16:31:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Sarmatiko on 31/08/2011 16:38:12
Originally by: Fia Masutra
2. Stop wasting everyone's screen space with your narrow design.
this
I'm using wikipedia or eve-survival to read content.
There is no content in flash banner with ugly EVE character. There is no content in huge "lets-use-it-everywhere" background.
Please make Evelopedia readable, because this is main purpose of wiki. If you trying to make another useless ugly appendix to evegate then stop wasting our time with such devblogs.
The bad thing - no one will listen us and we have to read stuff in this crappy design anyway (or leave ofc). This is the result of enourmous hatestorm in the last few years. Now if design (or something else) is really horrible, CCP will just ignore all comments and push it anyway because "users are dumb and hate always".
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Elyon Itari
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Posted - 2011.08.31 16:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Daedalus II
[...]Why do you think newspapers have their text in columns and not just right over the entire page?
Because newspapers want to put large numbers of articles on a very big sheet of paper? Also, newspapers predate computer layout software, and columns had to have been easier for manual layout, so I'd wager that inertia is a big factor too. And have you ever seen a newspaper website with columns?
Newspapers have their text in columns because the longer each line of text gets, the more difficult it is to correctly switch to the next one at the end of the line.
I believe around 65 characters (depending on font) was found to be the longest line width without average readers having issues jumping to the next line.
Regarding newspaper websites:
In the past (and somewhat at present), it has not been trivial to set up nicely flowing columns on webpages. CSS3 makes this job easier, but as IE8 is still used heavily (and IE6 and 7, to a degree), it will be some time until news sites will feel confident in using these advances.
Newspaper websites usually have plenty of sidebar-age to decrease the width of the actual article (due to the reading difficulties mentioned above), though.
Variable width is acceptable on wikipedia is because a lot of users with a lot of browsers in a lot of OSes on a lot of devices with a lot of screen sizes want to be able to read wikipedia, and it all just works better if you let the individual user/agent handle the formatting.
EVELopedia is probably made with the IGB and regular desktop/laptop/netbook browsing in mind. If they stick to fixed-width, I hope it is lower than 1024 pixels.
Finally, let me ask: have you ever seen a newspaper website with variable-width articles? |
Daedalus II
Helios Research
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Posted - 2011.08.31 17:18:00 -
[27]
Thank you Elyon Itari, finally someone with a clue :p
___________
Interested in incursions? Join Helios Research! |
Grady Eltoren
Minmatar
Aviation Professionals for EVE
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Posted - 2011.08.31 17:34:00 -
[28]
You like Goonswarm? BIAS!
Aviation Professionals for EVE (APEVE)
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Lolmer
Amarr
Merciless Reckoning
Executive Solution
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Posted - 2011.08.31 18:27:00 -
[29]
All good and great news except for your ******ed (I'm being nice here, honest!) to use the EvE Gate-like layout. That is not sexy or better, it wastes my screen space. Instead, keep the current design until you can fix your "sexy" design to not have fixed width. Seriously. No really, seriously, I mean it, fixed width is so '90s. If you wan to use fixed width you might as well use <blink> and <marquee> as well.
PS: Wow, you sensor "r e t a r d e d"? The sensoring makes the word look much worse than it is.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.08.31 18:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Elyon Itari
Newspapers have their text in columns because the longer each line of text gets, the more difficult it is to correctly switch to the next one at the end of the line.
I believe around 65 characters (depending on font) was found to be the longest line width without average readers having issues jumping to the next line.
Regarding newspaper websites:
In the past (and somewhat at present), it has not been trivial to set up nicely flowing columns on webpages. CSS3 makes this job easier, but as IE8 is still used heavily (and IE6 and 7, to a degree), it will be some time until news sites will feel confident in using these advances.
Newspaper websites usually have plenty of sidebar-age to decrease the width of the actual article (due to the reading difficulties mentioned above), though.
Variable width is acceptable on wikipedia is because a lot of users with a lot of browsers in a lot of OSes on a lot of devices with a lot of screen sizes want to be able to read wikipedia, and it all just works better if you let the individual user/agent handle the formatting.
EVELopedia is probably made with the IGB and regular desktop/laptop/netbook browsing in mind. If they stick to fixed-width, I hope it is lower than 1024 pixels.
Finally, let me ask: have you ever seen a newspaper website with variable-width articles?
It's not something I've ever thought of, frankly - there's not many newspaper articles that are long enough for me to care how much real estate they waste. When people actually want to seriously write, like on forums, then I start to care about screen density. And the current forums are just fine for going to the next line at 1680px wide - in fact it's sometimes easier than on my old 1280px, because paragraphs are shorter, so there's fewer lines to get confused between. Adding white lines as paragraph spacers makes the problem pretty much vanish. I'm reading you at 200 characters to the line, and it's trivial to jump down.
That said, I'm fine with fixed-width as an option. If you like it, more power to you, but I want variable-width to at least be possible.
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ISD Eshtir
ISD YARR
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Posted - 2011.08.31 19:46:00 -
[31]
Hello everyone,
It's time for me to hump this thread aswell, as i consider this an epic Dev Blog. It's all about the EVElopedia, baby.
And yes it's true! The YARRmy wants you!
We are looking for a helpful bunch of skillful wiki contributers. If you ever wanted to be part of the EVE Online ISD team and help out other EVE players with your knowledge, here is your chance. If you are a wikimanic and:
*) 18+ years old
*) have a good grasp of the english language
*) played EVE for atleast 3 months
*) MediaWiki knowledge is a huge plus
go ahead and apply here.
If you are fluent in other languages aswell this is a plus aswell! 
If you have any questions regarding YARR, the recruitment in general or the EVElopedia. Ask your questions here and we will do our best to answer them.
ProTip: DO NOT ask about your application in here. Drop us a mail at [email protected] for that.
PPS.: EVElopedia chat on irc.coldfront.net #evelopedia
Thanks for reading and we are looking forward to read your applications.
Vice Admiral
Yulai Archives & Record Repository Team (YARR)
Interstellar Services Department
[email protected]
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Ugleb
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.08.31 22:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Officer Spawn
I've noticed something peculiar on the recent patch notes and dev blogs: everything could just as easily be for World of Darkness. API export, forums, a wiki, a MMO Facebook clone, clothes, your Captain's Quarters, none of it is even remotely related to EVE Online.
Is this what you are trying to keep out of the CSM Summit minutes, that all EVE development is now limited to stuff that can also be used in WoD ?
I think the EVE Gate/new forums stuff is as much to do with Dust514 tbh. EVE is going to need better infrastructure to tie the two together.
You're right that alot of this stuff can be reapplied to CCP's other upcoming products, but that doesn't make it useless to move EVE forward. The new API stuff sounds great tbh, at last I can give an API key out for a killboard that doesn't give out a heap of other info about my character at the same time.
Developing their tech to be 'cross-product' has been a long term goal of CCP's for years now, and they've been very open about it too. They call it Carbon. Why not have one set of tools that all products can benefit from? As a company CCP need to become more than a one trick pony (EVE), with Carbon they can develop features that benefit multiple products at once.
Hopefully we're nearing the end of their tool building phase and will start to see the fruits coming through again soon. A better wiki and forum would be a start.
The Journal; Walking The Road To Liberation |
Kossaw
H A V O C
Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.08.31 22:58:00 -
[33]
Originally by: inexistin
Edited by: inexistin on 31/08/2011 13:52:01
Edited by: inexistin on 31/08/2011 13:51:30
Interesting. Make it wide (not like in the second picture, where 1/3 to 1/2 of the screen is used to show me nightmares instead of information) and you'll be involuntarilly making it awesome as well.
Edit: WTT awesome lvl 6 MS Paint skills for clarity
+1
Nice to see the Wiki getting love. Good job guys. Please finish properly.
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Aquana Abyss
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Posted - 2011.09.01 01:11:00 -
[34]
Scientific studies have proven ****ing to be a natural, beneficial process. Why all the ****er hate CCP?
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Lyla Deerdan
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Posted - 2011.09.01 01:42:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Lyla Deerdan on 01/09/2011 01:43:53
Originally by: CCP Ginger
DonÆt do it, we will ban you. We will still be looking over all the submissions and anything that breaches the rules will get you spanked and possibly banned depending on how naughty you were.
By "ban", do you mean "in-game ban" or just a ban on the wiki, as the rules suggest it? Because if its the latter, I hope you are fully aware and lucid that the next CAOD forum war may very well be waged at the expense of this tool and the countless hours volunteers will have put into it.
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T1nyTradingMan
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Posted - 2011.09.01 02:33:00 -
[36]
Hey guys,
Its very clear that you guys have been very busy. Although many on the forums can't see the effort going into this release and everything still ongoing, I certainly can.
I hope it goes smoothly [sorrry had to change out mining crystals there] and I can't wait to see where all this back end wizardry takes the game. I'm also very keen for the next release with establishments and hopefully the new nebulae [?].
The wiki itself looks awesome and it is deinately [damn small roids in this field] something that has been bringing the web presence down.
Question: Are there going to be any possibilities to embed video or audio into the articles? If so would they be playable in game? If you want an effective help system then this would have to be a huge benefit and the idea of players making stratedy vids that would later be selected as links within game help appeals to me. Some form of moderation would be needed of course but the quantity shouldn't be huge.
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Mr M
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Posted - 2011.09.01 02:37:00 -
[37]
Boo! Hiss! I laughed at the title 
Write for the Eve Tribune |
Asta Ddu
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.09.01 04:31:00 -
[38]
Why are you wasting so much screen space on NON-CONTENT items?
Yes the wiki should be a "fixed" width - the width of my browser window!
Any banner should not overpower the content of the page...
It's a WIKI not a marketing page!
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Aus Man Industries
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Posted - 2011.09.01 05:22:00 -
[39]
SO wide useless boarder=sexy
while we are forced to read narrow column?
Oh ya i'll look forward to that... didn't we already complain about that when they had the narrow new forums?
Why must you have such wide sides? you wear blinders?
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St Mio
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.09.01 05:41:00 -
[40]
The lack of typography love in this thread makes me sad :(
Quote:
Measure (or sometimes "The Measure") in typography refers to the width of a block or column of text from the left margin to the right margin. Punctuation should preferably hang outside the measure. It is relative to each design, but can be used as a unit of measurement within that design to create unity and harmony.
The measure of a text influences legibility. Long lines are hard to read, short lines are more easily read. 45û75 characters per line are regarded as the ideal range for the measure. For multiple column setups, 40û50 characters are often preferred. 66 is sometimes considered ideal for one column setups. [1][2]
And this is why we don't have text stretching right across the screen.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.09.01 06:01:00 -
[41]
What about item and system entries in Evelopedia?
There should be a way of adding content to item entries, but making it so people don't have to scroll through two pages of generic attributes from Show Info before being able to read the actual entry people have made. Make it collapsible? Have it so text can go above the great big block of tables? Either one would be very helpful, thx. |
Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.09.01 08:54:00 -
[42]
I know you guys work hard, but I hate the narrow layout as well. It also makes it really hard to make nice wiki pages with images as the narrow layout will screw that up. So please don't.
Your main problem is not how the wiki looks (it looks fine), but that key game features documentation suck.
A good example :
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_interaction
Still has not been updated to the latest version. I'd do it but I lack the time (and frankly, the interest, as PI has been a major disappointment for me).
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.09.01 10:38:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 01/09/2011 10:39:22
@players,
As a very regular contributor to Evelopedia, I need to point out a few facts.
1) You don't need to be a member of YARR to edit/contribute. You can log in with your normal Game/Forum details.
2) Don't be afraid to make edits, Evelopedia don't need a massive amount of new content, it needs lots of small additions and correction edits to those little details.
3) Use the Talk pages.o
@CCP
1) Please automatically add the {{DBstub}} to pages in the item database. The extra edits necessary to ensure wiki links shown as valid (orange) rather than invalid (red) are a painful waste of time.
2) More automatic content, Corporations (NPC & PC), stations, agents by type (Mission, Event, Storyline), Agent avatar images, important event & back ground characters.
3) More templates, little templates, big templates, lots more templates; missions by type, agent, planet, station.
4) Auto link materials in Blueprints.
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CCP Ginger
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Posted - 2011.09.01 10:54:00 -
[44]
Originally by: inexistin
Edited by: inexistin on 31/08/2011 13:52:01
Edited by: inexistin on 31/08/2011 13:51:30
Interesting. Make it wide (not like in the second picture, where 1/3 to 1/2 of the screen is used to show me nightmares instead of information) and you'll be involuntarilly making it awesome as well.
Edit: WTT awesome lvl 6 MS Paint skills for clarity
Lol nice pic :). This is an ongoing area of.. "discussion" with the designers. I think there are positives to be had with the fixed width but I am of the opinion that wiki is content and therefore more content = good. It's likely that we will review this.
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CCP Ginger
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Posted - 2011.09.01 10:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Pak Narhoo
why, oh why do you waste so much space on A HUGE STUPID BANNER in your wiki?
cos even tho its stupid its somewhat attractive for the first page to land on. Admitedly it may be somewhat larger than needed. I could draw parallels to certain incorrect and misinformed views about blonde, buxom and intelligence but I will not.
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CCP Ginger
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Posted - 2011.09.01 11:13:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 01/09/2011 10:39:22
@players,
As a very regular contributor to Evelopedia, I need to point out a few facts.
1) You don't need to be a member of YARR to edit/contribute. You can log in with your normal Game/Forum details.
2) Don't be afraid to make edits, Evelopedia don't need a massive amount of new content, it needs lots of small additions and correction edits to those little details.
3) Use the Talk pages.o
@CCP
1) Please automatically add the {{DBstub}} to pages in the item database. The extra edits necessary to ensure wiki links shown as valid (orange) rather than invalid (red) are a painful waste of time.
2) More automatic content, Corporations (NPC & PC), stations, agents by type (Mission, Event, Storyline), Agent avatar images, important event & back ground characters.
3) More templates, little templates, big templates, lots more templates; missions by type, agent, planet, station.
4) Auto link materials in Blueprints.
Just want to re-itterate Wykes points about the fact that anyone can contribute, you can all contribute and I would personally love it if you, yes you reading this right now, did. But like, with EVE stuff, not with that other depraved thing you were thinking about.
Wyke,
1) We can do this automatically in the next update but personally i was looking for a better solution to the item database issues, for example we thought about having tabs on Item DB pages. Tab for the Item DB info and a tab for the wiki content info and ideas like that. Nothing concrete yet but if you have some ideas hit the evelopedia team up on [email protected] or my talk page on evelopedia or my email.
2) Yes, this is something I want to do, we get the information in the data export and it makes perfect sense to incorporate that into an automatic filling of pages, however i want a sensible solution to our current problems with the way we do it currently with the Item DB. i.e. a wiki page and an item db page cant co-exist decently together, where as they should totally be able too.
3) Yes, but players can do this too! We might get people access to the CSS to help with this.
4) Good idea, i'll look into it.
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Publius Valerius
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.09.01 13:04:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Publius Valerius on 01/09/2011 13:04:45
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 01/09/2011 10:39:22
@players,
As a very regular contributor to Evelopedia, I need to point out a few facts.
Qool I am at four 
plz dont forget my questions on the previous pages... by the way I think EVElopedia/YARR and CCP needs better way to communicate stuff or getting feedback (see here)...
currently their are many open construction sites... like the System pages and the lack planets... or the NPC Corp pages have to many different versions (what is my fault too) see here (ISD Crystal Carbonide Version), here (my version) and here (the old version)... I think... CCP or YARR should work on some good guidelines and help pages... like they have done on the fiction site... I think that would help too... because I think many players are just afraid to do something wrong... so they do nothing
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Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
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Posted - 2011.09.01 14:19:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CCP Abraxas
The Immersion Project is definitely more than that, but the very first part we launch will be an out-of-game large scale wiki section. Once we've hammered out the kinks in the fiction wiki, iterated on it and gotten it stable, we'll move on to the in-game part.
Incidentally, note that the core of the project is and likely will remain the wiki, which holds all the lore - not the in-game part, which is intended to function primarily as a roleplayed portal to the wiki. We may eventually do some other clever things with the in-game section, but they're not the point of the whole project.
I'll do a separate dev blog on the Immersion Project later on.
That all sounds resonable, I hope to see it grow into something "clever" in game and usefull out of game.
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English only please. Zymurgist |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
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Posted - 2011.09.01 14:47:00 -
[49]
Fixed width allows the designers to actually design the content and to maintain readability. Design becomes a total pain when a browser width can be set in such a wide range of widths. We battled this problem at work. I started off pushing heavily for fluid design but in the end I realized that fixed width solves a lot of problems.
Optimal line lengths for readability is currently around 95 characters per line. The only reason you see so much 'wasted space' is that you have your browser window set so wide. Big monitors should be about seeing multiple documents when you are reading.
Readability study: http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/72/LineLength.asp
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2011.09.01 18:22:00 -
[50]
I have very little to add (other than to say Fixed Width is Good; if I can't view something fully on 50% of my screen it's too wide), but thanks at least for doing something positive. The past few months have been awful; this isn't. So... yay.
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Salpun
Gallente
Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.09.01 19:20:00 -
[51]
We got a time frame for this role out?
Will all pages need to be tweeked or are they good as is.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.09.02 01:16:00 -
[52]
Originally by: St Mio
The lack of typography love in this thread makes me sad :(
Quote:
Measure (or sometimes "The Measure") in typography refers to the width of a block or column of text from the left margin to the right margin. Punctuation should preferably hang outside the measure. It is relative to each design, but can be used as a unit of measurement within that design to create unity and harmony.
The measure of a text influences legibility. Long lines are hard to read, short lines are more easily read. 45û75 characters per line are regarded as the ideal range for the measure. For multiple column setups, 40û50 characters are often preferred. 66 is sometimes considered ideal for one column setups. [1][2]
And this is why we don't have text stretching right across the screen.
Originally by: Rees Noturana
Fixed width allows the designers to actually design the content and to maintain readability. Design becomes a total pain when a browser width can be set in such a wide range of widths. We battled this problem at work. I started off pushing heavily for fluid design but in the end I realized that fixed width solves a lot of problems.
Optimal line lengths for readability is currently around 95 characters per line. The only reason you see so much 'wasted space' is that you have your browser window set so wide. Big monitors should be about seeing multiple documents when you are reading.
Readability study: http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/72/LineLength.asp
The problem is, that's not actually what most of the people who use the website seem to think. And, for that matter, it's not what your referenced document seems to think - the longest line length studied(95 characters) had the fastest reading speed, and there were no comprehension differences. All the "66 is ideal" is likely based on indented, non-line-separated text, which lacks the most essential feature of online text formatting, the line break. With line breaks, longer text is easier, because it makes paragraphs physically shorter, and thus the lines easier to separate. IMO, the ideal text width is the one that leads to an average paragraph being 3-5 lines tall - shorter and the line breaks start to lose their separation value, longer and you start to care about picking up lines at the other side again.
Also, you're missing the rather obvious point that with a variable-width document, I can make the lines as long or short as I wish them to be by scaling the window. With fixed-width, I'm stuck on CCP's rails. If you like it half a screen wide, make the window half a screen wide. If you like splitting your monitor to show lots of stuff, do that. Don't force me to follow you, though.
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Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.09.02 01:33:00 -
[53]
Are you looking at EVE-Dev Wiki as well?
EVEVERIFY Recruitment API Verifier |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
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Posted - 2011.09.02 14:20:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Also, you're missing the rather obvious point that with a variable-width document, I can make the lines as long or short as I wish them to be by scaling the window. With fixed-width, I'm stuck on CCP's rails. If you like it half a screen wide, make the window half a screen wide. If you like splitting your monitor to show lots of stuff, do that. Don't force me to follow you, though.
Thank you for debating this issue with reason and civility. I understand this point as well. I've been hesitant to argue these points due to the constant attacks on anything CCP does with nothing but pure hatred. Debate is a good thing.
There is also a compromise solution that is rarely taken because it hasn't been well supported by Internet Explorer and that is to define a minimum and maximum width for content. Allow for users to resize their browser window and have the layout act fluid up to a point. Even more advanced designs will restructure a page based on that width to make more efficient use of the space.
I like the new design better than this current one. I agree that there are better design choices that can be made both at the UI level as well as down to their choice of technologies to run the site.
I think the reason why designers fall back to a fixed width layout instead of investigating something smarter in between fixed and fluid is due to the training that most graphic designers receive. Designers tend to start on paper within its rigid confines. That limits choices and makes it easier to find a design solution. Once your layout becomes flexible you lose control.
TL;DR
Designers lose control with fluid so they feel more comfortable with fixed width. Users lose control with fixed. Designer has a deadline so they choose the fastest route to the solution.
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.09.03 04:02:00 -
[55]
I like the pun in the title, b/c I liked that album ;)
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
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Posted - 2011.09.04 23:52:00 -
[56]
Awesome! I was hoping to see an improvement to this, and the more that's on EVE Gate, the better!
Great job, and I really can't wait for the Immersion Project, it's very exciting to see what you do with that, also to see how it comes back in game for INcarna and other parts of FIS.
Best of Luck.
AURUM NOSTRUM NON EST AURUM VULGI |
inexistin
Rubbish and Garbage Removal
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Posted - 2011.09.05 20:04:00 -
[57]
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Lol nice pic :).
Ty, I'm in the process of training up the skills, just for the added clarity. A thin red font doesn't seem to cut it as good as I wanted it to. 
Originally by: CCP Ginger
This is an ongoing area of.. "discussion" with the designers. I think there are positives to be had with the fixed width but I am of the opinion that wiki is content and therefore more content = good. It's likely that we will review this.
Definately on you with that one. If a compromise would appease more people, why not put the large side banners on pages with less content? Such as file pages (those pages you get to when you click an image, for example), or not-yet-made categories/articles/what ever. Those are just the few I can think of off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are many more.
However, pages where I get to because I'm looking for information should focus on giving me that information. Glad to see we're on the same wavelength here.
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Small-scale pew pew!? Lies, yo' blob is on intel!!1 |
mkint
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Posted - 2011.09.06 08:38:00 -
[58]
Edited by: mkint on 06/09/2011 08:40:57
Glad to see the updates. A big pet peeve of mine with EVE has always been how absolutely utterly worthless the "search" box is in the help window. Seriously, it's been a steaming pile for as long as I've been playing, and I'd wager even longer. I've been a believer that connecting it to the evelopedia would be vital and I'd say this is a good sign.
There are some technical things in the game client that I'm curious about. Namely, the way I understand the show-info windows is that it queries what is essentially a sequestered web server/database for the relevant info (if I understand it, even using http.) What are the issues surrounding having it query the wiki directly, including adding a wiki tab? As users, we'd have instant access to all the information we need without the overhead of a full blown web browser. (The steadily degrading client-side performance of EVE means that I cannot reasonably both undock and have a web browser open at the same time any more, down from 3 clients and a web browser just 2-3 years ago.) Smoother integration into the client would demonstrate that CCP takes it's help system seriously. (The lack of good documentation in EVE is an old, unfunny joke.)
Also... I keep hearing that the ISD programs have been on a recruitment freeze. That they still accept applications, but don't actually do anything with them (definitely a depressing situation that makes it look like CCP doesn't care any more.) Was that just the STAR team, or all, and has the freeze been lifted? Would it really be worth our whiles to even fill out applications?
edit: also, spacebook looks like moose butthole, and always has. Please don't get the stink of it on evelopedia.
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Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus
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Posted - 2011.09.09 06:13:00 -
[59]
Problem is. I was all exited when the EVElopedia first came and I wrote a bunch of articles. Almost all of them was destroyed by CCP employees or volonteers. That kind of put me off. A few examples include: Someone made a bunch or "red" links on a page I've written then flagged it as poorly written because it contained alot of "red" links. I wrote description on alot of ship classes that was all moved to their own pages when ship classes was resorted and are now almost impossible to find (while the ship classes in the "ships" section again have no player-written descriptions).
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