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Allophyl Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.09.25 14:56:00 - [1] - Quote Nearly every class of ship that exists in real life has an analogue in Eve, but not the torpedo boat. I feel like adding these buggers could not only make fleet warfare a lot more interesting, but also give more options to new pilots than just "tackle frigate, tackle frigate, tackle frigate". I can see them being very similar to their RL counterpart: very small ships (smaller hull than frigates), which carry extremely high-payload weapons with the purpose of destroying battleships and carriers. A part of the role of frigates and destroyers then becomes protecting battleships from these guys. In terms of game mechanics, this would mean the following: Torpedo boats would carry torpedo launchers that would have a very low rate of fire but which would be capable of taking out a battleship in only a few hits. The torpedoes (not to be confused with the torpedoes that already exist in-game) would have very high explosion radius and low explosion velocity, making them effective only on battleships and capitals. They would also have an extremely low velocity, requiring the torpedo boat to get up close and personal and making it easy for the torpedoes to be outrun or destroyed with defenders if they don't. Torpedo boats would get a role bonus to fitting these modules so any frigate or cruiser can't just decide to fit them, and their low velocity would make them useless on anything bigger. They would have very little tank, but also an extremely low signature radius. While frigates and small drones will be capable of killing them, they won't be nearly as effective at it as destroyers, which will get a role bonus to the sig radius of their turrets as well as targeting speed. Obviously, having a small, cheap hull capable of doing massive amounts of damage would make it a lot cheaper and easier for suicide gankers to do their thing, so to keep this from causing chaos in high-sec, Concord will shoot on-sight any ship fitted with a torpedo boat's launchers. These boats would make fleet warfare a lot more interesting, would finally make destroyers a viable option in pvp and give them a real use, and would give newbies something to do in fleets other than just tackle - they could also either fly torpedo boats or destroyers.
Paikis Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking 177	Posted - 2012.09.25 15:07:00 - [2] - Quote Stealth Bomber, look em up. Also: Bombs.
Allophyl Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.09.25 15:15:00 - [3] - Quote Paikis wrote: Stealth Bomber, look em up. Also: Bombs. Stealth bombers are not the same thing as torpedo boats. Yes, they are small ships that carry torpedoes, but their role is not even remotely close to the role of torpedo boats as I described them, and the torpedoes they carry are not the same as the type of torpedoes that torpedo boats would.
Paikis Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking 177	Posted - 2012.09.25 15:46:00 - [4] - Quote What you described is a stealth bomber. Only what you're calling torpedoes are currently called bombs in game.
Allophyl Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.09.25 15:54:00 - [5] - Quote Paikis wrote: What you described is a stealth bomber. Only what you're calling torpedoes are currently called bombs in game. Did you even read the post? Bombs are used against small targets. Torpedoes are used against large ones. Bombs detonate 30km away from where they were launched. Torpedoes must be launched up close. Bombs are AOE. Torpedoes are not. Bombs are launched by stealth frigates. Torpedoes are launched by non-stealth craft smaller than frigates. Next are you going to try to tell me an elephant is a banana?
Ruareve Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective 77	Posted - 2012.09.25 16:12:00 - [6] - Quote I'm going to agree with the other replies, what you are looking for exists as a stealth bomber. To avoid confusion I'll call your ship a PT boat. In traditional warfare the PT boat was a fast ship typically made out of plywood with four torpedo launchers and a multitude of crew served weapons for self defense. They engaged everything from battleships down. When you look for something matching that description in Eve you get the stealth bomber. Small fragile ship capable of engaging larger vessels with oversized weaponry. Best used in a group attack instead of solo. The only real difference is the SB doesn't have small defense weapons and uses a bomb instead of the wet navy torpedo. You want to put in fancy rules preventing ganking in high sec but bombs already have that limitation. As much as you wish there was room for your idea it just doesn't make sense as long as SBs are around to fill the role. Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/
Fleet Warpsujarento State Protectorate Caldari State 157	Posted - 2012.09.25 16:13:00 - [7] - Quote Yeah, what you're talking about is essentially a Stealth Bomber with more DPS.
Sir Sniper Legion of Freedom 2	Posted - 2012.09.25 16:23:00 - [8] - Quote stealth bombers relate more towards subs than PT boats. His idea would be more like taking an ceptor, putting a siege torp launcher on it and giving it a big bonus to damage, but huge penalty to weapon speed.
Allophyl Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.09.25 16:36:00 - [9] - Quote Stealth bombers excel at taking out many small targets, not individual large ones. Torpedo boats are extremely dangerous to battleships, which is why destroyers (original short for torpedo boat destroyer) started being used to protect capital ships from them. They are a completely different ship, serving an entirely different purpose.
Peter Powers Terrorists of Dimensions Free 2 Play 90	Posted - 2012.09.26 08:19:00 - [10] - Quote Allophyl wrote: Stealth bombers excel at taking out many small targets, not individual large ones. Torpedo boats are extremely dangerous to battleships, which is why destroyers (original short for torpedo boat destroyer) started being used to protect capital ships from them. They are a completely different ship, serving an entirely different purpose. stealth bombers in eve excel at taking out ships much larger than their size, actually battleships are their favorite prey. to protect your ships from stealth bombers you need smaller ships, funny enough, interdictors that are destroyers can do that. 3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 927	Posted - 2012.09.26 08:52:00 - [11] - Quote Allophyl wrote: Bombs are used against small targets. Actually... a single bomb will barely scratch a frigate or cruiser so long as they don't activate a MWD. Several bombs will do the trick though (which isn't very cost effective). Allophyl wrote: Torpedoes are used against large ones. Torps are effective against cruisers that are target painted and very effective against battlecruisers and larger. Allophyl wrote: Bombs detonate 30km away from where they were launched. Torpedoes must be launched up close. A well skilled Stealth Bomber pilot can lob Torpedos from 50+ km away. Hardley "up close" weaponry when the average "close range" weapons typically have an effective envelope of ~15 to 30km. Allophyl wrote: Torpedoes are launched by non-stealth craft smaller than frigates. Next are you going to try to tell me an elephant is a banana? Leave your preconceptions about how things should work and start looking at how things work given how the mechanics operate. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Dread Pirate Pete Tribal Core Defiant Legacy 47	Posted - 2012.09.26 09:10:00 - [12] - Quote Allophyl wrote: Did you even read the post? Bombs are used against small targets. Gypsy Band would like a word with you
Gypsio III Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 371	Posted - 2012.09.26 10:10:00 - [13] - Quote Dread Pirate Pete wrote: Allophyl wrote: Did you even read the post? Bombs are used against small targets. Gypsy Band would like a word with you Along with virtually everyone else, tbh.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 439	Posted - 2012.09.26 10:48:00 - [14] - Quote the OP wants covert ops titans, which would be able to "sink" a ship with 1 hit (doomsday) but remain unseen most of the time, which basically is the concept of covert ops ships in eve.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 81	Posted - 2012.09.26 11:19:00 - [15] - Quote Allophyl wrote: Stealth bombers excel at taking out many small targets. not individual large ones Rofl So bad...
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 81	Posted - 2012.09.26 11:20:00 - [16] - Quote >_> double posting ftw?
Romvex Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 65	Posted - 2012.09.26 11:36:00 - [17] - Quote Garviel Tarrant wrote: [quote=Allophyl]Stealth bombers excel at taking out many small targets. not individual large ones i believe you are, um, well, really confused.... oh btw phoon fleet issue is a wonderful torp boat Gÿ+/ /Gûî /n++ \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Allophyl Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.09.26 12:38:00 - [18] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Allophyl wrote: Bombs detonate 30km away from where they were launched. Torpedoes must be launched up close. Actually... a well skilled Stealth Bomber pilot can lob Torpedos from 50+ km away. Using certain fits, you can even engage ~90 km away. Hardley "up close" weaponry when the average "close range" weapons typically have an effective envelope of ~5 to 30km (depending on the weapon). Are you daft? I'm not talking about the torpedoes that exist in the game, I'm talking about the ones which would be used by torpedo boats. This is only one of the things that makes them incredibly different from stealth bombers. Stealth bombers are frigate-class vessels able to cloak, which lob bombs (an AoE weapon) and torpedoes from a large distance, and in fact do not even have the option of launching their bombs up close. Torpedo boats are smaller, even more fragile vessels which do not cloak, and must get up close to an enemy ship to do any damage, and even then will likely only get one or two shots off before being popped. Stealth bombers require high skills to fly, and if they do things right will not get popped, whereas torpedo boats are noob friendly and are likely to get popped often. Tell me again how this makes them exactly the same as stealth bombers? Robert Caldera wrote: the OP wants covert ops titans, which would be able to "sink" a ship with 1 hit (doomsday) but remain unseen most of the time, which basically is the concept of covert ops ships in eve. Tell me, where exactly did I say that torpedo boats should be able to cloak? Again, this is one of the major differences between them and stealth bombers. Stealth bombers can cloak, torpedo boats do not. Moreover, I clearly said it should take several hits to destroy a battleship, not a single hit. Christ, do you people have a problem with reading comprehension or something?
MIrple BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team 123	Posted - 2012.09.26 14:07:00 - [19] - Quote I think what you are looking for would be a new module or bomb. Call it a T2 presicsion bomb that only effects a single ship. This might be more of what your looking for.
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels 584	Posted - 2012.09.26 15:04:00 - [20] - Quote I think I hear you asking for a small ship, not necessarily cloaking but at least very fast, that can take out other larger ships with it's alpha strike. The analogy of the torpedo boat fails when you accept their is no analogy for naval ships weakness to having holes punched in them below their waterline, causing them to sink. The naval torpedo boats simply exploited this weakness, acting as the delivery system for a weapon uniquely qualified to sink naval vessels. We don't have a one shot weapon like that, nor do we want one. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK.
Skorpynekomimi 265	Posted - 2012.09.26 16:22:00 - [21] - Quote Stealth bombers are best likened to attack submarines. Which are basically submersible torpedo boats. See, in the age of radar and accurate gunnery, torpedo boats either need to be really fast, or really sneaky. Sneaky works better, as you can observe your target before attacking. Also, the destroyer was created with the name 'torpedo boat destroyer'. What do destroyers in EVE destroy? Frigates. The smallest armed ships in the game. Since what you're asking for is just a well-armed fast frigate, don't you want an assault frigate? Or maybe just a stealth bomber, designed for use with torpedoes and AOE bombs, and with a covops cloak fitted?
Allophyl Psycho Clowns The Jagged Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.09.26 17:56:00 - [22] - Quote Skorpynekomimi wrote: Since what you're asking for is just a well-armed fast frigate, don't you want an assault frigate? Or maybe just a stealth bomber, designed for use with torpedoes and AOE bombs, and with a covops cloak fitted? Obviously not.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 2448	Posted - 2012.09.26 18:36:00 - [23] - Quote What people are trying to tell you is that our current stealth bombers already (to a large degree) fill the ROLE you are describing... not that they are identical to what you are describing. Actually you are fairly accurately also describing Fighter Bombers, which of course cannot be individually piloted (which is a shame). So no, a stealth bomber is not exactly what you propose, but it achieves most of the end results you outline. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Furry Commander Furry Armada 8	Posted - 2012.09.26 22:38:00 - [24] - Quote i get it... you want to strap a capital class weapon to a noob ship basically. i get that your version of the torpedo launcher is different from a bomb launcher, and has to be used in close, but you could in theory fit a stealth bomber to do exactly what you are trying to do. don't fit the cloak or bomb launcher fill your lows with BCUs add a prop mod and a few TPs and you have almost exactly waht you are talking about. we already have torpedoes... they are called torpedoes. A torpedo boat in the real world used the same torpedoes (or smaller in some cases) as other larger ships, it was just small and maneuverable compared to other ships. it was also hard to detect because in choppy waters it was hard to see. and radar didn't pick it up very well. minus the specifics of your new and different torpedo launcher that doesn't need to exsist a stealth bomber will do exactly waht you want if you fit it differently/badly. lets compare your ship stealth bomber fragile fragile tiny tiny High DPS "torpedoes" high DPS torpedoes ckose range only close or long range depending on fit no cloak ever can fit cloak no bomb launcher bomb launcher Noob friendly can be flown effectively in a few months if you are focused so basically the stealth bomber can do everything you want this new ship to do, but better and with more versatility and it only takes a few months to be able to fly it well despite the fact that it is a highly specialized role (mirroring reality as well, the brown water navy are some of the most highly skilled people i have met) seems to me you should just accept this idea is not such a good one as there as already a ship that does the same job and then some, even if it doesn't do quite as much DPS as you were hoping, and if you want it to fly exactly like you have described, fit it like this [Hound, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I Small Auxiliary Thrusters I 757 DPS with less than 1500 EHP. you fly that puppy as close as you want to whatever you want
Daichi Yamato Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire 12	Posted - 2012.09.27 00:14:00 - [25] - Quote how about a frigate that launches bombs without having to de-cloak like a B2
Herping yourDerp Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 772	Posted - 2012.09.27 02:21:00 - [26] - Quote I see what OP is saying. give us a bomber more tank more speed but no cloak or bomb launcher. stealth bombers are more like submarines, they basically surface, unload and try to dissapear before noticed/attacked give us an assault frig with 2 torp launchers and 2 guns? it be wierd ship but it could work.
Furry Commander Furry Armada 10	Posted - 2012.09.27 02:42:00 - [27] - Quote Herping yourDerp wrote: I see what OP is saying. give us a bomber more tank more speed but no cloak or bomb launcher. stealth bombers are more like submarines, they basically surface, unload and try to dissapear before noticed/attacked give us an assault frig with 2 torp launchers and 2 guns? it be wierd ship but it could work. i don't think so, OP seemed to want a glass cannon. a decent fit AS can deal really good DPS, why ruin it by limiting its target choices to larger hulls with torps? basically he wanted the fit i linked, but maybe a bit faster and more torp launcers to kill BSs more efficiently, all wrapped in a t1 hull with a special new torpedo launcher that noobs could train in a few minutes.
Kitt JT League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda 126	Posted - 2012.09.27 04:05:00 - [28] - Quote This is the dumbest thread ever. Robert Caldera wrote: the OP wants covert ops titans, which would be able to "sink" a ship with 1 hit (doomsday) but remain unseen most of the time, which basically is the concept of covert ops ships in eve. [Avatar, New Setup 1] Estamel's Modified Co-Processor Estamel's Modified Co-Processor Estamel's Modified Co-Processor Estamel's Modified Co-Processor Estamel's Modified Co-Processor Estamel's Modified Co-Processor Estamel's Modified Co-Processor Estamel's Modified Co-Processor Brokara's Modified Cap Recharger Brokara's Modified Cap Recharger Brokara's Modified Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 'Smokescreen' Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Judgement [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I [empty rig slot]
Sigras Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N 213	Posted - 2012.09.27 04:11:00 - [29] - Quote im sorry but the OP lost all credibility when she said that bombs (and stealth bombers in general) are to be used against small targets. This hasnt been the case since they got changed to use torpedoes years ago. bombs dont do anything to frigates whos pilots are worth caring about, and neither do torpedoes. What you described in the OP is a stealth bomber, maybe with 4 launchers instead of 3 launchers and a bomb
Mars Theran Caldari Provisions Caldari State 313	Posted - 2012.09.27 07:24:00 - [30] - Quote Allophyl wrote: Paikis wrote: What you described is a stealth bomber. Only what you're calling torpedoes are currently called bombs in game. Did you even read the post? Bombs are used against small targets. Torpedoes are used against large ones. Bombs detonate 30km away from where they were launched. Torpedoes must be launched up close. Bombs are AOE. Torpedoes are not. Bombs are launched by stealth frigates. Torpedoes are launched by non-stealth craft smaller than frigates. Next are you going to try to tell me an elephant is a banana? The big difference between Bombs and Torpedoes, is the fact that the Bombs are untargeted and yes, they have an AOE and do much damage to many smaller things, if they hit them. They also do a heck of a hit on larger craft in the vicinity; 8000 Thermal is nothing to scoff at I think. That being said, it's not the guns of an Arti Tornado. 30 km in space, is pretty close, the SBs Torps are from past 50km with good skills. How is a sneaky sub, sneaking, not stealth? Elephants like bananas, and you are what you eat. (Actually, genetically, we are all 50% in common with the banana, sharing most of the same genome with it, and every other living thing on Earth.) Maybe I was actually sleeping in front of my computer and dreamed I posted. Certainly, it's not there now.

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