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![Salpad Salpad](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1253651701/portrait?size=64)
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
47
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Posted - 2012.09.26 15:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
I created a bunch of Freighter-sized courer contracts about 15 hours ago. I took special care to size the volumes such that any Freighter can take one of the "basic" ones and most Freighters will also be able to simultaneously take one of my "extra" contracts for extra income.
It's from connected high-sec to connected high-sec, a lot of jumps, but very AFK-friendly, and with a collateral equal to 115% or 130% of the value of the goods, to protect me against theft. So a little over 200M ISK collateral for the "basic" unit and around 40M for the "extra" contract.
How come no one has bitten?
What's the expected rate per jump, for a Freighter-sized cargo volume?
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![Reticle Reticle](https://images.evetech.net/characters/92128591/portrait?size=64)
Reticle
Sight Picture
10
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Posted - 2012.09.26 15:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
The industry standard: http://red-frog.org/jumps.php
If you haven't been keeping up with the specifics, RF hires pilots constantly (as soon as they have packages that go over 24hrs, they hire more people), which means there are fewer people to take your stuff these days. |
![March rabbit March rabbit](https://images.evetech.net/characters/2062530289/portrait?size=64)
March rabbit
R.I.P. Revenge
254
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Posted - 2012.09.26 15:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
once i've tried to start hauling business.... Stopped after browsing available contracts: 80% is scam which leads into low-sec, 15% has too little payment and too big collateral.
So i guess Red Frog/Black Frog exist for the reason =) |
![JohnathanGalt JohnathanGalt](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90034493/portrait?size=64)
JohnathanGalt
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2012.09.26 15:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
I would also recommend Push Industries, they have move many loads for me reliably and with delivery times that are quite amazing.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41058 |
![Salpad Salpad](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1253651701/portrait?size=64)
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
47
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Posted - 2012.09.26 21:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm much more interested in cheap than in fast, but I'll take a look at those links.
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![Salpad Salpad](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1253651701/portrait?size=64)
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
47
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Posted - 2012.09.26 21:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
What's the maximum size for a Courier Contract? I read somewhere that it's 800k m3, but some other texts suggest that more than 800k m3 is possible. What's the deal?
Also, what does it actually look like, if somebody takes my Courier Contract? And then later delivers? Where does my stuff apppear, and how and when and where am I notified?
And what is a reasonable rate? Red Frog charges 1M base fee + 450k ISK per jump, and that's way too expensive for my needs. I need a lot of cargoes moved through high-sec 14-17 jumps, but it doesn't have to be fast. I'm unwilling to pay for fast.
I'm thinking something along the lines of 5M ISK total for those 14-17 jumps, for 860k m3 cargo. Red Frog would charge 6.85M for 14 jumps and 8.65M for 17 jumps, but presumably they do it fast, which I'm unwilling to pay for. I don't have that kind of profit margin. I need a cheap slowboat captain to haul my stuff.
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![Nanatoa Nanatoa](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91089648/portrait?size=64)
Nanatoa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.09.26 21:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
I do find it a bit strange that you're unwilling to pay for fast, but wonder why your contract hasn't been taken in just 15 hours. If you're not in a rush, give it a couple of days for a cheap ass hauler to come along. |
![Salpad Salpad](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1253651701/portrait?size=64)
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
47
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Posted - 2012.09.26 21:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nanatoa wrote:I do find it a bit strange that you're unwilling to pay for fast, but wonder why your contract hasn't been taken in just 15 hours. If you're not in a rush, give it a couple of days for a cheap ass hauler to come along.
I've got multiple contracts up already. I'm puzzled that none of them have been taken.
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![Nanatoa Nanatoa](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91089648/portrait?size=64)
Nanatoa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.09.26 21:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I'll rephrase my comment:
I do find it a bit strange that you're unwilling to pay for fast, but wonder why your contracts haven't been taken in just 15 hours. If you're not in a rush, give it a couple of days for one or more cheap ass haulers to come along. |
![Rengerel en Distel Rengerel en Distel](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91114633/portrait?size=64)
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
425
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Posted - 2012.09.26 22:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
If the starting point isn't a hub, most freighter pilots aren't going to grab a full load off the beaten path. You might get some hits on smaller loads they could pick up on their way between hubs though. Otherwise if they have to go out of their way, and you're being a cheap ass, it'll just sit there. If you were flying a 1.6B ship, and have to spend 30 minutes flying from A to B, would you want to get paid 5M for your time? Not even mentioning that you have to cover the cost of the goods for the honor of hauling it for someone else, taking all the risks yourself.
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![LuckyQuarter LuckyQuarter](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1097302851/portrait?size=64)
LuckyQuarter
Lucky Galactic Expeditions
1
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Posted - 2012.09.27 00:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
As someone who has done a lot of hauling with public contracts and an obelisk freighter (937.5K m3), I'd have to say that what I look for in a contract is: a) Minimum payout of 2M isk (lower sized contracts get filtered out) b) Low collaterals, I'll go up to 1B - but I'd much rather have several smaller collateral contracts than 1 big one c) Delivery deadlines 3 days from pickup, I'll pickup 1 day ones and usually deliver within 1-2hrs of pickup, but there is always a possibility I'll have to disconnect for real life and don't want the pressure of meeting a short deadline in the back of my mind. d) If you want me to pick up the contract right away and expedite it, I'll usually expect 600K-1M isk/jump, if you are willing to wait - 400-500isk/jump will usually get me to take it, if the average is 200-400K isk/jump - I'll take it only if its on a path I'm already going, under 200K isk/jump - I'm almost certain to pass on it even if I'm going from/to the same station (similar to manufacturer not selling items on market if avg price gets too low). e) If the route goes through a known gank point, I'm going to be less likely to take it. f) smaller cargos, I hate taking full loads....for full loads, I'm really expecting the per jump payout to be high. |
![Pipa Porto Pipa Porto](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91277047/portrait?size=64)
Pipa Porto
1057
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 02:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Salpad wrote:What's the maximum size for a Courier Contract? I read somewhere that it's 800k m3, but some other texts suggest that more than 800k m3 is possible. What's the deal?
~950k m3 or whatever the Cargo hold of a Freighter 5 Charon is.
Quote:Also, what does it actually look like, if somebody takes my Courier Contract? And then later delivers? Where does my stuff apppear, and how and when and where am I notified?
Your contract window will blink and say a contract needs attention. Your stuff appears in your hangar at the destination system.
Quote:And what is a reasonable rate? Red Frog charges 1M base fee + 450k ISK per jump, and that's way too expensive for my needs. I need a lot of cargoes moved through high-sec 14-17 jumps, but it doesn't have to be fast. I'm unwilling to pay for fast.
I'm thinking something along the lines of 5M ISK total for those 14-17 jumps, for 860k m3 cargo. Red Frog would charge 6.85M for 14 jumps and 8.65M for 17 jumps, but presumably they do it fast, which I'm unwilling to pay for. I don't have that kind of profit margin. I need a cheap slowboat captain to haul my stuff.
Put up public contracts and hope for the best then. If nobody bites, you're not paying enough.
The trick to getting really cheap contracts accepted is to run small packages that can be accepted on top of other cargo and that go on routes that people are already taking. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
![Red zeon Red zeon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/826842299/portrait?size=64)
Red zeon
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
10
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Posted - 2012.09.27 02:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
holy crap thats cheap, last i put up one from jita to 16jumps away all highsec, i put up 100m reward, didnt take that long tho |
![Salpad Salpad](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1253651701/portrait?size=64)
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
47
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Posted - 2012.09.27 12:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Red zeon wrote:holy crap thats cheap, last i put up one from jita to 16jumps away all highsec, i put up 100m reward, didnt take that long tho
I can move my stuff myself. I have my own Freighter, and skill level 5. I'm just lazy.
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![Red zeon Red zeon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/826842299/portrait?size=64)
Red zeon
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
10
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Posted - 2012.09.27 12:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Red zeon wrote:holy crap thats cheap, last i put up one from jita to 16jumps away all highsec, i put up 100m reward, didnt take that long tho I can move my stuff myself. I have my own Freighter, and skill level 5. I'm just lazy.
i have a jump freighter char+jf and a out of corp freighter char. yeah... me to :P |
![Derath Ellecon Derath Ellecon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90686639/portrait?size=64)
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
356
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Posted - 2012.09.27 13:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Red zeon wrote:holy crap thats cheap, last i put up one from jita to 16jumps away all highsec, i put up 100m reward, didnt take that long tho I can move my stuff myself. I have my own Freighter, and skill level 5. I'm just lazy.
In the time you took to make the contracts, create this thread, and reply to it, you prolly could have loaded your freighter, hit autopilot and have had the stuff there. Yea that is pretty pathetically lazy. |
![Brewlar Kuvakei Brewlar Kuvakei](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91302524/portrait?size=64)
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
131
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Posted - 2012.09.27 13:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
400k per jump too expensive, clearly you've never had the pain of trying to jump freighters through busy start gates. 30 seconds till warp, nope I got bumped by that douche trying to warp in an orca. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |
![Salpad Salpad](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1253651701/portrait?size=64)
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
47
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 13:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Salpad wrote:Red zeon wrote:holy crap thats cheap, last i put up one from jita to 16jumps away all highsec, i put up 100m reward, didnt take that long tho I can move my stuff myself. I have my own Freighter, and skill level 5. I'm just lazy. In the time you took to make the contracts, create this thread, and reply to it, you prolly could have loaded your freighter, hit autopilot and have had the stuff there. Yea that is pretty pathetically lazy.
One load of stuff, yes, but I probably have 10-15 loads per week, that I need to move. That's 25x15.5 = 387.5 jumps per week. Even on Autopilot that's slow.
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![Taji Kann Taji Kann](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1625204200/portrait?size=64)
Taji Kann
Bright Exports Ltd
0
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Posted - 2012.09.27 14:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Salpad wrote: How come no one has bitten?
What's the expected rate per jump, for a Freighter-sized cargo volume?
I'll bite on this thread since from time to time myself and my alts have too little (value or volume-wise) to engage ref frog or other organised services so pubbie contract it is then.
I tend to figure 50k per jump for industrial and 100k per jump for freighter type loads is minimum, and *at least* 1M total for more than 8 jumps or so.
For some reason the 7 digits seem to be sought after more than not and you'll notice you can't have fractional millions in contract search... I figure whoever searches puts "1" in there to screen the low-end crap out.
I set 3 days expiry and rarely it fails. Might take a day or 2 to get noticed by enterprising independent courier .. and of course if you're willing to wait longer...
I think last one was Agil to Amarr, 1M, a few hundred m3, less than 200M collat, finished yesterday or so.
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![Clystan Clystan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/464678166/portrait?size=64)
Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
8
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Posted - 2012.09.27 21:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
I take contracts and mostly run them in a blockade runner. I ignore anything below 3 million reward unless I see multiple smaller contracts going to the same destination. I do not rely on contracts for income but I grab them when I see good ones. If you want it moved fast - give it a decent reward.
I laugh when I see either:
a) Someone that wants a billion down for a million reward - pay up for the risk! b) Someone that wants a million hops for 900K
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![Reticle Reticle](https://images.evetech.net/characters/92128591/portrait?size=64)
Reticle
Sight Picture
10
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Posted - 2012.09.28 16:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Salpad wrote:And what is a reasonable rate? Red Frog charges 1M base fee + 450k ISK per jump, and that's way too expensive for my needs. I need a lot of cargoes moved through high-sec 14-17 jumps, but it doesn't have to be fast. I'm unwilling to pay for fast.
I'm thinking something along the lines of 5M ISK total for those 14-17 jumps, for 860k m3 cargo. Red Frog would charge 6.85M for 14 jumps and 8.65M for 17 jumps, but presumably they do it fast, which I'm unwilling to pay for. I don't have that kind of profit margin. I need a cheap slowboat captain to haul my stuff. RF would charge you between 1.85m and 3.65m more than you want to pay per freighter load? Is your profit margin so low that 3.65m on 860k m3 of goods kills it? I have an idea. Sell your freighter. If you bought before 4 months ago, you'll be making a huge profit on it and it will likely be more ISK than you can make on whatever rinky dink operation you have that a 4mil difference in price would kill.
There's a reason I linked Red Frog as the industry standard. Because everyone knows what they charge, they're looking for similar rates. Because so many people get hired by RF, there are fewer people willing to accept the crap prices you're offering. For far too long courier services were undervalued. That has changed. You and many others are still working on the assumptions of 2010, but the price of freighters has tripled. At the rates you're offering it would take forever to pay one off. There are still people who don't value their time, so you're waiting on one of them. |
![Salpad Salpad](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1253651701/portrait?size=64)
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
47
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Posted - 2012.09.28 23:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
No, actually, I'm making a fairly decent profit on my biz, in terms of ISK/month. We're talking a couple of billion ISK per month. It's just very labour-intensive, because I have to haul a lot of these 980k m3 Freighter loads, and I have to haul them many, many jumps.
I did buy my Freighter back when they were much cheaper, as in over 4 years ago, but it's such a useful tool to have, both for my personal businesses and for my corp, that I'd never be willing to sell it.
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![Pipa Porto Pipa Porto](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91277047/portrait?size=64)
Pipa Porto
1071
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 00:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Salpad wrote:No, actually, I'm making a fairly decent profit on my biz, in terms of ISK/month. We're talking a couple of billion ISK per month. It's just very labour-intensive, because I have to haul a lot of these 980k m3 Freighter loads, and I have to haul them many, many jumps.
I did buy my Freighter back when they were much cheaper, as in over 4 years ago, but it's such a useful tool to have, both for my personal businesses and for my corp, that I'd never be willing to sell it.
Then I'd suggest you move your battleship manufacturing station closer to where you're selling them. Time you spend hauling is no more free than having other people haul for you. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
![Reticle Reticle](https://images.evetech.net/characters/92128591/portrait?size=64)
Reticle
Sight Picture
10
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Posted - 2012.09.29 03:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Salpad wrote:No, actually, I'm making a fairly decent profit on my biz, in terms of ISK/month. We're talking a couple of billion ISK per month. It's just very labour-intensive, because I have to haul a lot of these 980k m3 Freighter loads, and I have to haul them many, many jumps.
I did buy my Freighter back when they were much cheaper, as in over 4 years ago, but it's such a useful tool to have, both for my personal businesses and for my corp, that I'd never be willing to sell it.
So why not turn it into a job in which all you do is set your battleship production queue and maintain your orders? Labor isn't free and now you know the going market rate. The only thing left to do is to decide if your real life, actual finite time on earth is worth 4m in fake money. Seems like an easy choice to me. |
![Sizeof Void Sizeof Void](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90145001/portrait?size=64)
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
285
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Posted - 2012.10.01 19:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
I use public courier contracts very frequently, and have no difficulties in getting my high-sec to high-sec contracts picked up. So, here's my two cents:
1) Cost: 1-2% of the collateral.
For less than 10 jumps, I've never had a contract refused at 1%. Since you are talking about 14-17 jumps, I'd go with the 2%.
2) Break up the size to smaller chunks, and create more contracts.
Haulers are going to take the best paying contracts first, then fill up the rest of their space with anything else they can fit, regardless of the reward-to-jump ratio. No one wants to haul with less than a full load.
So, if a freighter is only 3/4 full and they can't find any more high paying contracts, then most pilots will fill the other 1/4 with lower paying contracts, rather than just flying without a full load.
Better still, if you can, break up the size to chunks small enough to fit in a T1 industrial or a blockade runner. These ships are faster than a freighter, and far more common in high-sec, too. Your contracts will get picked up much faster.
3) Break up the jumps into smaller runs, and create more contracts.
Same-region runs get picked up faster than runs between regions. For runs between regions, hub-to-hub runs also get picked up faster, than runs between random stations in different regions.
So, you ship your stuff from the origin station to the hub in the same region. Then, you ship your stuff from the hub in the origin region to the hub in the destination region. Finally, you ship your stuff from the destination region hub to the destination station.
This increases the cost somewhat. Typically, you'd pay 1% for the same-region runs and 1-2% for the hub-to-hub run. So, figure the total cost at 3-4%, but you'll get your stuff delivered faster.
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![Sizeof Void Sizeof Void](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90145001/portrait?size=64)
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
285
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Posted - 2012.10.01 19:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
I just noticed that you'd rather pay less and get it slow, yet you were surprised that no one picked up your contract immediately.
Well...
If you want it cheap, you'll have to be more patient. Haulers take the high paying contracts first. The lower paying contracts are only taken when there is extra room left over and no more high paying contracts.
Contracts can take several days to get picked up, esp. the lower paying contracts. I set my contracts up for a week. The smaller, high paying runs get picked up in less than a day; most of the rest get picked up within 1-2 days, but some can take longer.
But, if you are putting up full freighter loads, for a long run, at cheap prices, you are not going to get many takers. You'll probably need to wait until someone is running empty on a return trip and can't find anything better to haul. This could take weeks. |
![Reticle Reticle](https://images.evetech.net/characters/92128591/portrait?size=64)
Reticle
Sight Picture
15
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Posted - 2012.10.02 15:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:Haulers are going to take the best paying contracts first, then fill up the rest of their space with anything else they can fit, regardless of the reward-to-jump ratio. No one wants to haul with less than a full load.
So, if a freighter is only 3/4 full and they can't find any more high paying contracts, then most pilots will fill the other 1/4 with lower paying contracts, rather than just flying without a full load. "Most" haulers don't do this. Most haulers do exactly the opposite. They'd rather fly with a partial load than encourage cheapskates to put up more contracts.
Breaking it into industrial size loads is your best bet, since these pilots will be noobs who don't know what the going rate is. |
![Sizeof Void Sizeof Void](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90145001/portrait?size=64)
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
285
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Posted - 2012.10.02 19:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Reticle wrote:They'd rather fly with a partial load than encourage cheapskates to put up more contracts. Haulers in corps which prefer private contracts work that way. But, not haulers who pick up public contracts. There is always someone looking to fill up that last bit of space in their hauler, esp. on the hub-to-hub runs.
There are a lot of high-sec haulers who make AFK runs. These guys are just looking to make ISK, while doing something else in RL - working, eating, sleeping, taking a shower, watching a movie, etc. Because of the risk from gankers, they actually want to keep the cargo value under a certain limit, making themselves into less attractive targets. So, they have no problem with picking up the cheap contracts, just to fill the ship.
Also, it takes a new freighter pilot a long time to pay off the cost of the freighter, with just high-sec runs. So, it is pretty difficult to convince them to *not* pick up those contracts and fly partially empty. Sort of like trying to tell a new immigrant worker not to take a low paying job, but to hold out for a higher rate. |
![Kara Books Kara Books](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90878722/portrait?size=64)
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
212
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Posted - 2012.10.02 20:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Salpad wrote:I created a bunch of Freighter-sized courer contracts about 15 hours ago. I took special care to size the volumes such that any Freighter can take one of the "basic" ones and most Freighters will also be able to simultaneously take one of my "extra" contracts for extra income.
It's from connected high-sec to connected high-sec, a lot of jumps, but very AFK-friendly, and with a collateral equal to 115% or 130% of the value of the goods, to protect me against theft. So a little over 200M ISK collateral for the "basic" unit and around 40M for the "extra" contract.
How come no one has bitten?
What's the expected rate per jump, for a Freighter-sized cargo volume?
The hungry will not understand the well fed, Just like the Well fed, do not understand the hungry, that later half applies to this subject.
You must use common sense when dealing with professional hauler pilots, at the end of the day you want your 100M and so does he. |
![Barakach Barakach](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1970811664/portrait?size=64)
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
82
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Posted - 2012.10.03 16:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Try having 6kk m3 moved by breaking into smaller contracts. I aim for 760k m3 because it leaves enough room for other contracts. My collat to reward is low, but the reward is still better relative to other contracts. Most of those contract are also smaller m3, so I compete by not trying to use all of their storage. About 0.4% reward, 2mil on 465m collat. I price my collat at my desired selling price.
It's quite bursty for me though. I can get anywhere from 0-10 760k m3 loads per week. My best bet is to buy in bulk, setup the contracts, and just wait it out once I hit my limit.
The strangest courier contract that I have ever picked up was 450m collat, 6m payout, but the single ship in the contract was listing for 10m on the market with constant medium volume and stable price for the past year. |
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![Clystan Clystan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/464678166/portrait?size=64)
Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
12
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Posted - 2012.10.03 16:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
It's an odd and dynamic market. I saw a dude list 9 contracts the other evening. They were between 12 and 5 million. Most from random low sec. All headed to the same destination.
Each had collateral less than 150 million. Some of the loads had value less than the reward.
I didn't ask any questions. I ran all of them within 2 hours of them being posted. I assume he was happy. For me, it was an unexpected 50 million and a chance to see some areas I hadn't been in yet. |
![Piugattuk Piugattuk](https://images.evetech.net/characters/237825503/portrait?size=64)
Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
69
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Posted - 2012.10.03 18:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
I know im a little late, but my courier contracts i put up go fast cause i pay well for hi sec, say a 10 jump contract for a freighter i would pay 1 million a jump, even my low volume contracts pay nicely and yes keep collateral like you have it, keep in mind the routes, udemia<<<<>>>>>Narajaf (spelled something like that) are hi sec choke points that get gank squads camping them thus freighter captains dont care for the route. |
![Reticle Reticle](https://images.evetech.net/characters/92128591/portrait?size=64)
Reticle
Sight Picture
24
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Posted - 2012.10.03 18:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
No matter what the specifics of the pricing are, if you aren't earning approx 20mil ISK per hour, you're losing money. You would do better mining or missioning or really anything else. Running AFK is great, but it takes twice as long, so you're effectively cutting your income in half by doing it. The most successful haulers are those who combine it with other professions to maximize freighter use. Intelligent courier pricing is based on time spent, not the value or size of the load. If you combine 10 contracts into one run, unless they all go to and from the same station, you'll be spending a lot of time jumping gates for a pittance.
Like I said in a previous post, some people don't value their time (or don't know how to value it). If those people want to essentially work for free, well, who can blame people for taking advantage of them?
Piugattuk wrote:keep in mind the routes, udemia<<<<>>>>>Narajaf (spelled something like that) are hi sec choke points that get gank squads camping them thus freighter captains dont care for the route. All routes from non-Caldari space to Jita pass through either Uedama or Niarja. There isn't any real way to avoid them for the majority of contracts. |
![Erotica 1 Erotica 1](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91919239/portrait?size=64)
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
21
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Posted - 2012.10.05 04:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
1-2billion a month and you have to work hard for that? That's about what I make per day.
Anyway, when I setup couriers, I make sure I pay them well. Usually at least a million per jump, and always a bare minimum of 1% collateral. I normally have collateral ranging from 1-5b , so my rewards are typically 10-50m, sometimes double depending on my need for a quick delivery. See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
![Sarmea Moon Sarmea Moon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/835639307/portrait?size=64)
Sarmea Moon
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
40
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 19:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Something not mentioned....
Level 4 courier missions pay me an avg of 100k per jump in my itty. Iterons fly a heck of a lot faster than my freighter. I will not accept less than 300k per jump for anyone not in my corp. That is what you're competing against.
I find it more profitable to have my freighter alt running level 4 couriers than it is to haul something from Jita to Oursulaert. Instead I pay someone else to haul it. It's how I got my research POSes and fuel, and modules out of Jita and to my new home. I literally made more doing the missions than the 1 million isk per jump I paid to have someone else haul the goods. |
![Reticle Reticle](https://images.evetech.net/characters/92128591/portrait?size=64)
Reticle
Sight Picture
43
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 21:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sarmea Moon wrote:Something not mentioned....
Level 4 courier missions pay me an avg of 100k per jump in my itty. Iterons fly a heck of a lot faster than my freighter. I will not accept less than 300k per jump for anyone not in my corp. That is what you're competing against.
I find it more profitable to have my freighter alt running level 4 couriers than it is to haul something from Jita to Oursulaert. Instead I pay someone else to haul it. It's how I got my research POSes and fuel, and modules out of Jita and to my new home. I literally made more doing the missions than the 1 million isk per jump I paid to have someone else haul the goods. It is highly unlikely that you are making more ISK running L4 couriers than someone getting 1mil ISK per jump every 3 minutes. |
![Lavitakus Bromier Lavitakus Bromier](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91886561/portrait?size=64)
Lavitakus Bromier
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 18:06:00 -
[37] - Quote
Reticle wrote:Sarmea Moon wrote:Something not mentioned....
Level 4 courier missions pay me an avg of 100k per jump in my itty. Iterons fly a heck of a lot faster than my freighter. I will not accept less than 300k per jump for anyone not in my corp. That is what you're competing against.
I find it more profitable to have my freighter alt running level 4 couriers than it is to haul something from Jita to Oursulaert. Instead I pay someone else to haul it. It's how I got my research POSes and fuel, and modules out of Jita and to my new home. I literally made more doing the missions than the 1 million isk per jump I paid to have someone else haul the goods. It is highly unlikely that you are making more ISK running L4 couriers than someone getting 1mil ISK per jump every 3 minutes.
Except ppl arnt paying 1 mil per jump. More on the of 200K-400K on average. alot of ppl expect stuff way to cheap. I'd run 1% on collateral 800m and up 1.5% on collateral 750m-550m and any thing 500m down. 400K for 10 jumps and 500K for any after that. That based of 20 jumps. It's probably flawed but meh. |
![Reticle Reticle](https://images.evetech.net/characters/92128591/portrait?size=64)
Reticle
Sight Picture
45
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 20:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Lavitakus Bromier wrote:Reticle wrote:Sarmea Moon wrote:Something not mentioned....
Level 4 courier missions pay me an avg of 100k per jump in my itty. Iterons fly a heck of a lot faster than my freighter. I will not accept less than 300k per jump for anyone not in my corp. That is what you're competing against.
I find it more profitable to have my freighter alt running level 4 couriers than it is to haul something from Jita to Oursulaert. Instead I pay someone else to haul it. It's how I got my research POSes and fuel, and modules out of Jita and to my new home. I literally made more doing the missions than the 1 million isk per jump I paid to have someone else haul the goods. It is highly unlikely that you are making more ISK running L4 couriers than someone getting 1mil ISK per jump every 3 minutes. Except ppl arnt paying 1 mil per jump. More on the of 200K-400K on average. alot of ppl expect stuff way to cheap. I'd run 1% on collateral 800m and up 1.5% on collateral 750m-550m and any thing 500m down. 400K for 10 jumps and 500K for any after that. That based of 20 jumps. It's probably flawed but meh. I was simply using the number from his own post.
I reiterate, however, that courier pilots should be basing their pay on time spent, not % of XYZ. Percentages are great when you get to a certain collateral level (i.e. 1 to 1.5 billion+ depending on exact percentages), but the majority of packages don't come anywhere near that threshold collateral value, which means the majority of packages that use a % of collateral payment will be paying a rate that isn't worth the time of the courier. Your personal method is more flexible and rewarding than most methods I've seen, but total number of jumps and time spent are still the primary driving factors from the courier's point of view. 1% of 800mil is 8 mil, not bad for say a 15 to 20 minute trip, but on a trip from Jita to Rens, the per hour amount is so low that it's laughable. |
![Sarmea Moon Sarmea Moon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/835639307/portrait?size=64)
Sarmea Moon
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
43
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 22:49:00 -
[39] - Quote
Reticle wrote:Sarmea Moon wrote:Something not mentioned....
Level 4 courier missions pay me an avg of 100k per jump in my itty. Iterons fly a heck of a lot faster than my freighter. I will not accept less than 300k per jump for anyone not in my corp. That is what you're competing against.
I find it more profitable to have my freighter alt running level 4 couriers than it is to haul something from Jita to Oursulaert. Instead I pay someone else to haul it. It's how I got my research POSes and fuel, and modules out of Jita and to my new home. I literally made more doing the missions than the 1 million isk per jump I paid to have someone else haul the goods. It is highly unlikely that you are making more ISK running L4 couriers than someone getting 1mil ISK per jump every 3 minutes.
I beg to differ. Try running a few. Average length of travel- 2 jumps. Payout, average 400k plus an average 700-800 loyalty points. Even at a conversion rate of a measly 1:1000 (like +3 implants) that still nets 1.5mill isk per mission, completed in less time than it takes a freighter to do a single afk jump.
*edit*
This does not include the 1 in 16 important faction mission either. |
![Kara Books Kara Books](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90878722/portrait?size=64)
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
218
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Posted - 2012.10.09 23:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
your better off using your contract slots for blueprint copy sales to offset the Frog freight costs, do it the easy way. |
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![Ricky Pickering Ricky Pickering](https://images.evetech.net/characters/392099638/portrait?size=64)
Ricky Pickering
Tri Star Productions Solid Foundation
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 16:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
So, then, let me ask some of you freighters a question.
I constantly put up courier contracts for 13 jumps that require a collateral of 6-7 billion.
What is an acceptable reward for this?
In general I just take the number of billions, put a 0 behind it and turn it in to millions.
In other words, the reward for a 6 billion isk collateral contract with 13 jumps of high sec is 60 million. The freight is almost always under 10km3, and if it's over, it's only over by a few km3.
Am I making my prices fair, or could I afford to go even cheaper? Do I need to pay more? Thanks for the input! |
![Lavitakus Bromier Lavitakus Bromier](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91886561/portrait?size=64)
Lavitakus Bromier
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 01:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ricky Pickering wrote:So, then, let me ask some of you freighters a question.
I constantly put up courier contracts for 13 jumps that require a collateral of 6-7 billion.
What is an acceptable reward for this?
In general I just take the number of billions, put a 0 behind it and turn it in to millions.
In other words, the reward for a 6 billion isk collateral contract with 13 jumps of high sec is 60 million. The freight is almost always under 10km3, and if it's over, it's only over by a few km3.
Am I making my prices fair, or could I afford to go even cheaper? Do I need to pay more? Thanks for the input!
idk any more slot of ppl saying it should be bsees off how much time spent doing it. But I still think since IM the one putting out the collateral it's based off it. 13 isn't long and if it's all high sec. if I had 6b I could use for collateral I'd charge you .5% if it's in high sec. And cause,it's low,number of jumps. I could get it done pretty fast since I don't afk. |
![Pipa Porto Pipa Porto](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91277047/portrait?size=64)
Pipa Porto
1192
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 01:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ricky Pickering wrote:So, then, let me ask some of you freighters a question.
I constantly put up courier contracts for 13 jumps that require a collateral of 6-7 billion.
What is an acceptable reward for this?
In general I just take the number of billions, put a 0 behind it and turn it in to millions.
In other words, the reward for a 6 billion isk collateral contract with 13 jumps of high sec is 60 million. The freight is almost always under 10km3, and if it's over, it's only over by a few km3.
Am I making my prices fair, or could I afford to go even cheaper? Do I need to pay more? Thanks for the input!
You'd probably be better off making 7-8 contracts with 1b Collateral each. You'd probably be able to reduce your cost to ~10m total.
Most people view such high collateral public contracts as traps.
That said, since the cargo can fit in an Orca's corp hangar, maybe not. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
![LuckyQuarter LuckyQuarter](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1097302851/portrait?size=64)
LuckyQuarter
Lucky Galactic Expeditions
3
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 13:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Simply put, most courier pilots with freighters are not going to accept any contracts with collateral over 1.5B.......and if your contract requires passing through a known camped gank point....ugh, this says trap trap x 100. No way.
That said, a jump freighter pilot might be willing to go with higher collateral, maybe 3B....but even then, if the contract passes through a known gank point....they are going to wonder if it is a trap. The question that is going to be asked is why you can't split the contract into multiple parts.
If the cargo is tiny, and can be put in the hanger bay of an orca or perhaps just in the normal cargo bay of some other very fast ship....you might get some pilots willing to do it with less valuable ships, since the worst case loss is much less. But these type of pilots are not necessarily the same as your freighter pilots. The mentality is different. Freighter pilots prefer very low risk contracts....smaller/high speed ships may be fine taking much more risk as long as they expect to on average make much more isk than they lose. Know which kind of pilot you are targeting.
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![Kaivar Lancer Kaivar Lancer](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90536723/portrait?size=64)
Kaivar Lancer
General Exports
227
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 11:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
A few years ago I offered low-ball courier contracts just to see if anyone would take it. Yes people will deliver for 10k isk per jump. This was proper freighter-sized cargo.
10k per jump.
I guess they were courier "thieves" who take on any contract in the hope of finding under-collateralised cargo and stealing it.
So to the OP, try to offer 10k per jump. If you're doing 300+ jumps per week as you say, just imagine the isk you'll save. |
![Sizeof Void Sizeof Void](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90145001/portrait?size=64)
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
289
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 22:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
A few more things:
1) High collateral contracts don't get picked up as quickly as low collateral contracts. Despite what the CSM might say, not everyone has multi-billions of ISK sitting in wallet to use as collateral. Most high sec haulers simply cannot afford to accept those contracts, regardless of reward or risk. And, the haulers who can afford to take the high collateral contracts are also much more picky about the contracts they will accept (ie. they are looking for bigger rewards, since they already have well padded wallets and don't need to take discounted contracts).
So, as with cargo size, break up high collateral contracts into a series of lower collateral contracts and they will get picked up much more quickly.
2) In high sec, the number of jumps is not as important as the route. For an AFK hauler, 5 jumps is pretty much the same thing as 10 jumps. Most haulers are much more concerned about flying AFK through an unavoidable gank point - such as Uedama or Colelie.
That said, the reward only needs to be proportional to the collateral and the risk. I typically use a 1% reward for my courier contracts, but I will usually tack on another 0.5%-1% for anything that needs to go through a gank point.
3) In the three or so years that I've been putting up dozens of daily contracts, I'd say that less than 2% of my high sec courier contracts have not been accepted, within the week when first posted. The 2% of contracts which expired were reposted - and all of the reposted contracts have been accepted. So, yes, this is a 100% success rate with public courier contracts in high sec.
4) Just FYI, I've also put up courier contracts from low sec to high sec. Typically, I price these at 3%-5% of the collateral, depending on the reputation of the low-to-high pipe involved in the route. These contracts get picked up less quickly, and I've often had to repost the contract 2-3 times, but most of them actually do get picked up eventually. |
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