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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
182
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cameron Cahill wrote:Kult Altol wrote:Here come all the trolls defending their low life style. Also the experts in game play with their nearly flawless play style. People don't want to admit something is inherently flawed. D'awwww someone loose a ship? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo....
Please spell lose as lose and not loose which is describing my sister... |
Cameron Cahill
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
102
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Cameron Cahill wrote:Kult Altol wrote:Here come all the trolls defending their low life style. Also the experts in game play with their nearly flawless play style. People don't want to admit something is inherently flawed. D'awwww someone loose a ship? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo.... Please spell lose as lose and not loose which is describing my sister...
Damn you picking up on it before i noticed |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
652
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:Here come all the trolls defending their low life style. Also the experts in game play with their nearly flawless play style. People don't want to admit something is inherently flawed.
I'm happy to admit that the playstyle of the freighter pilot is inherently flawed. the thing is, the freighter pilots that take precations to not get suicide ganked... They outnumber the ones that don't take precautions. They are the majority, the victims are the minority. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Newsflash
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
once more. freighter suiciding: its just too easy and can be done with just few people. otherwise suicideganking is just fine and belongs truly in this game full of evil. just give buff to freighter hulls so it requires more people and more firepower to achieve bringing one down in hisec. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Kraken.
326
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
How do you define "too easy" and "too few"? Where's the line? I mean you say it should require 40-50 people, but how do you arrive at that number being a fair number?
(Surely if organising a fleet of ten people is too easy, freighter piloting must also be too easy?) |
Cameron Cahill
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
102
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
Newsflash wrote:once more. freighter suiciding: its just too easy and can be done with just few people. otherwise suicideganking is just fine and belongs truly in this game full of evil. just give buff to freighter hulls so it requires more people and more firepower to achieve bringing one down in hisec.
Repeating an incorrect point over and over again doesn't change the fact that its wrong. It is harder and more expensive than ever to gank freighters. If you are not stupid you will not be ganked. There is no need for a mechanic change. |
Hecate Shaw
United Freemerchants Society
1
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Newsflash wrote:currently freighters are way too easy to suicidegank and there is nothing pilot can do to prevent it. it does not require many ships to succesfully suicide freighter and because suicideganking is one aspect of this game give freighters much much more HP so atleast gankers need to bring in team of 40-50 ships to achieve their goal. now its just laughably easy done with even under 10 BC for example. I'm going to have to disagree here as there is quite a few things you can do to prevent it. The first & probably the most obvious is to make yourself unprofitable to gank. 95% of freighter suicide ganks happen because the pilot is making it a profitable venture. Please re-read your response there...seriously, are freighter pilots supposed to take a loss every time they undock? I mean, you're right in one respect, that there are built-in ways to avoid a gank (NO AUTOPILOT!), but don't you think telling them to lose ISK in order to avoid a ganking is a little unreasonable? Personally, I think freighters should have a longer cloak timer, or be covered for part of the time it takes them to align, just so they aren't QUITE so much of a sitting duck.
As for your suggestion of altering routes - that only works so far. Be honest, now, how many freighters have you guys ganked were ones you scouted on previous days, recorded their route, and set up an ambush specifically for them? How many were targets of opportunity along highsec choke points that dip into lower security ratings (Niarja, to name one) that you caught while they tried to align for the next gate? No judgement, honestly curious. If the former, then more power to you, and the freighter pilots need to HTFU. If the latter, maybe there is some merit to the complaint, eh?
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ISD Praetoxx
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
287
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:For moving very expensive items such as 100 plex or 70 capital blueprints at a time, I know it's a joke, but don't move PLEX :(
No point in denying it. We have all seen the killmails. I run a support group for pilot's who have been affected by these losses.
Bonus points if anyone can link the killmail. ISD Praetoxx Ensign Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department |
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Cameron Cahill
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
103
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
Hecate Shaw wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Newsflash wrote:currently freighters are way too easy to suicidegank and there is nothing pilot can do to prevent it. it does not require many ships to succesfully suicide freighter and because suicideganking is one aspect of this game give freighters much much more HP so atleast gankers need to bring in team of 40-50 ships to achieve their goal. now its just laughably easy done with even under 10 BC for example. I'm going to have to disagree here as there is quite a few things you can do to prevent it. The first & probably the most obvious is to make yourself unprofitable to gank. 95% of freighter suicide ganks happen because the pilot is making it a profitable venture. Please re-read your response there...seriously, are freighter pilots supposed to take a loss every time they undock? I mean, you're right in one respect, that there are built-in ways to avoid a gank (NO AUTOPILOT!), but don't you think telling them to lose ISK in order to avoid a ganking is a little unreasonable? Personally, I think freighters should have a longer cloak timer, or be covered for part of the time it takes them to align, just so they aren't QUITE so much of a sitting duck. As for your suggestion of altering routes - that only works so far. Be honest, now, how many freighters have you guys ganked were ones you scouted on previous days, recorded their route, and set up an ambush specifically for them? How many were targets of opportunity along highsec choke points that dip into lower security ratings (Niarja, to name one) that you caught while they tried to align for the next gate? No judgement, honestly curious. If the former, then more power to you, and the freighter pilots need to HTFU. If the latter, maybe there is some merit to the complaint, eh?
So what you're saying is that the stupid freighter pilots who go in to nijara and die are NOT the ones who need to HFTU? What are you talking about? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Kraken.
326
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Hecate Shaw wrote:don't you think telling them to lose ISK in order to avoid a ganking is a little unreasonable? No. |
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Mai Khumm
Omen Industries -Entropy-
263
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Posted - 2012.09.29 13:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
ISD Praetoxx wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:For moving very expensive items such as 100 plex or 70 capital blueprints at a time, I know it's a joke, but don't move PLEX :( No point in denying it. We have all seen the killmails. I run a support group for pilot's who have been affected by these losses. Bonus points if anyone can link the killmail. Linking killmails is against forum rules, it usually ends up locking the thread. You should Know the rules by now... "Being drunk is a good disguise. I drink so I can talk to a**holes. This includes me." |
Kainotomiu Ronuken
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2012.09.29 14:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:For moving very expensive items such as 100 plex or 70 capital blueprints at a time, I know it's a joke, but don't move PLEX :( No point in denying it. We have all seen the killmails. I run a support group for pilot's who have been affected by these losses. Bonus points if anyone can link the killmail. Linking killmails is against forum rules, it usually ends up locking the thread. You should Know the rules by now... Ouch... |
Shisha Edkaan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.29 14:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Please spell lose as lose and not loose which is describing my sister... Yeah, well, at least I'm getting some. |
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp
2840
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Posted - 2012.09.29 14:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Yes, clearly highsec needs a buff to be made safer.
"I mean, what's wrong with buffing EHP of freighters? It's just one nerf, not the end of the world.. And we're not taking ganking away entirely, just requiring you to use a few more ships to do it..."
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝-˝The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
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ISD Praetoxx
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
288
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Posted - 2012.09.29 14:58:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:For moving very expensive items such as 100 plex or 70 capital blueprints at a time, I know it's a joke, but don't move PLEX :( No point in denying it. We have all seen the killmails. I run a support group for pilot's who have been affected by these losses. Bonus points if anyone can link the killmail. Linking killmails is against forum rules, it usually ends up locking the thread. You should Know the rules by now...
Hmm, that is strange. The Forum Rules make no mention of such a rule against posting killmail links. Maybe you should re-read the rules to ensure you don't give out incorrect information. It could make you look like you don't know what you are talking about!
The context in which said killmail links are posted is what matters. ISD Praetoxx Ensign Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department |
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Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
295
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Posted - 2012.09.29 14:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
Newsflash wrote:[quote=Mallak Azaria]
that is plain stupidity and im not against suicideganking BUT i would like to see it require more effort that about 10 bc or so. thus asking a HP buff so that people need to bring some real numbers like maybe 40-50 ships to kill that huge juicy pinata.
So you think that freighters should have around a million EHP, and have a guaranteed loss for the ganker in the billions?
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Mai Khumm
Omen Industries -Entropy-
264
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
ISD Praetoxx wrote:Mai Khumm wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:For moving very expensive items such as 100 plex or 70 capital blueprints at a time, I know it's a joke, but don't move PLEX :( No point in denying it. We have all seen the killmails. I run a support group for pilot's who have been affected by these losses. Bonus points if anyone can link the killmail. Linking killmails is against forum rules, it usually ends up locking the thread. You should Know the rules by now... Hmm, that is strange. The Forum Rules make no mention of such a rule against posting killmail links. Maybe you should re-read the rules to ensure you don't give out incorrect information. It could make you look like you don't know what you are talking about! The context in which said killmail links are posted is what matters. I've seen dozens of threads where a Dev says otherwise, even my main got a no no once for that... "Being drunk is a good disguise. I drink so I can talk to a**holes. This includes me." |
White Tree
Blue-Fire Tribal Band
852
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
/thread
Get back to Reddit. Former member of CSM6, Champion of the Gallente Master Race. |
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ISD Praetoxx
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
294
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
White Tree wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:
/thread
Get back to Reddit.
Got banned ... long story
*ISD Praetoxx nudges thread back on-topic* ISD Praetoxx Ensign Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department |
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Boris Lachenkov
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
48
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
White Tree wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:
/thread
Get back to Reddit.
We are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us.
9gag army. |
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
775
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
Maybe if there were more ways to lawfully engage freighters in combat in highsec people wouldn't gank them so much. |
Boris Lachenkov
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
48
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Maybe if there were more ways to lawfully engage freighters in combat in highsec people wouldn't gank them so much.
Freighter duel at the sun? |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
311
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
While I am an advocate for anything that ruins the day of those intent on destroying high sec, in this case, I have to agree with the sociopaths. To actually organize a group large enough to alpha a freighter takes some doing.
An afk freighter, crawling 15 km to a gate, yes, the gankers have a ridiculous amount of time to assemble an alpha squad. That is just the life if Eve, and you actually have to give some credit to the gankers at that point.
What I recommend to the OP is to be prudent, like posted by others. Limit the value of your cargo. 2nd, and more importantly, don't akf through known hot spots. Warp to zero, and move along smartly.
3rd, when moving a valuable cargo, or when you have zero choice but to go through a hot spot, bring along a Rapier or Huginn with double web's that is also heavily sensor boosted (actually, given the sig of the freighter, not really required) The mehodology is to fleet someone of the same corp (not sure Concord allows someone of the same alliance) with the freighter pilot.
1.The Rapier/Huginn pilot jumps ahead of the freighter pilot, say 10 seconds.
2. The recon pilot then breaks cloak, and is ready to lock. Given the range of the recon's webs, they should be in range of any ship, even on the gates with the largest signature.
3. The freighter pilot jumps through, and immediately begins aligning for the next gate, or EVEN BETTER, a SAFESPOT in DEEP SPACE.
4.The recon pilot then immediately double web's the freighter as soon as it becomes visible. The recon pilot should actually get the webbers "pre-heated" by activating them BEFORE the freighter is visible, but the recon pilot has to be smart, because as soon as he locks anything, those webbers will kick in and Concord will consider it an offensive action. Now, that is no biggie if in same corp, Concord won't shoot. But if he locks anyone else, the recon pilot will get popped.
5. The freighter pilot hits warp as soon as those webs are applied, and will insta-warp due to the vastly reduced top speed of the freighter measured against the 75% of speed of an unwebbed freighter required to initiate warp.
6. This is also important, as it refers to #4. A Safespot is preferable, since even a recon in the same corp will not be allowed by Concord to immediately jump after webbing a friendly. The freighter could possibly jump, and have its 30 second cloak expire on the next jump before the recon pilot is cleared to jump. Hence the safespot. The freigher hits the safespot, then immediately begins an align to the next gate. As soon as the recon pilot is clear to jump, the freighter pilot warps to zero, and the process is repeated. While there is a chance that you will be scanned down in the time it takes to align to the next gate is possible, it is pretty unlikely it will happen, given most gankers operate in highly populated systems with lots of sigs, plus they are usually too dumb/ lazy to go after any targets but what are on the gates. (as a addendum, you sometimes don't have to wait for the recon to be cleared to jump before the freighter intiates warp from a safespot. If I remember correctly, the timer is 60 seconds, so the freighter pilot can be transit to the next gate before the timer runs out
I have used this method moving freighters through dangerous high sec choke points, and even 1 or 2 jumps into low sec. From the time the freighter is decloaking on a gate until in warp is a matter of a few seconds. It is hardly enough time for a ganking crew to scan down a cargo and decide whether they want to attack of not. By the time that decision is made, you should be in warp.
It is best to practice this method in safe until you get it right, but it works. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4906
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
Content Removed Please don't post unless you have something constructive to add. - ISD Praetoxx please leave |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4906
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:41:00 -
[55] - Quote
also FYI it was wayyyy cheaper to kill freighters with platinum insured T1 fit tempests/geddons before Crucible than it is now with tier 3 BCs since you don't get an insurance payout anymore
it is more expensive to gank a freighter now than it ever was but abloobloobloo we can't stand getting ganked the world is so unfair why can't I move my life's worth in a freighter :( please leave |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4396
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
Posting in a duplicate topic that exists because More Nerf to ganking fell off the first page.
Also wondering how some nerds manage to argue over this same imbecilic topic for a combined 28 pages. Its good to be Gallente. |
Karrl Tian
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.09.29 15:49:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'd say HTFU or GTFO/make a big list of countermeasures, but after the miner buffs you'll probably get your wish. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
655
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Posted - 2012.09.29 16:07:00 -
[58] - Quote
Hecate Shaw wrote:Please re-read your response there...seriously, are freighter pilots supposed to take a loss every time they undock? I mean, you're right in one respect, that there are built-in ways to avoid a gank (NO AUTOPILOT!), but don't you think telling them to lose ISK in order to avoid a ganking is a little unreasonable?
Not at all. It's a concept that many freighter pilots understand & actively implement to avoid being picked as a target. Making yourself unprofitable to gank is not taking a loss. Making yourself profitable to gank is the loss. Read the text at the bottom for a more detailed real life comparison (I'm not generally a big advocate on those, but quite a bit of it can be applied here).
Hecate Shaw wrote: Personally, I think freighters should have a longer cloak timer, or be covered for part of the time it takes them to align, just so they aren't QUITE so much of a sitting duck.
Having a longer cloak timer wouldn't help one bit, it just means the gankers have to wait longer before the target uncloaks. Being covered for some alignment time would mean everyone piloting ships would also want this. Freighters are big ships & have a high mass which accounts for the larger alignment time. People choose to pilot freighters for various reasons & they all need to accept that their ship choice comes with many downsides.
Hecate Shaw wrote:As for your suggestion of altering routes - that only works so far. Be honest, now, how many freighters have you guys ganked were ones you scouted on previous days, recorded their route, and set up an ambush specifically for them? How many were targets of opportunity along highsec choke points that dip into lower security ratings (Niarja, to name one) that you caught while they tried to align for the next gate? No judgement, honestly curious. If the former, then more power to you, and the freighter pilots need to HTFU. If the latter, maybe there is some merit to the complaint, eh?
I haven't personally been involved in any of the freighter ganks so I can't honestly give you an answer on those statistics (and out of habit, I wouldn't anyway). What I can tell you comes from personal experience in my real life profession. The company I worked for 8 years ago was heavily involved in armoured vehicle cash (and other things) escorts. We had certain runs that had to be completed on certain days. For each individual run, we'd have several routes set out that we could take which were chosen at random by the driver. The vehicles themselves are also built to make a potential attack or robbery (you guessed it) unprofitable. If you can't get inside the vehicle to begin with, then you're losing money.
This is the standard proceedure for that type of work for a reason; It works. One out of 10, 20 or more routes is chosen at random, on the spot by the driver. When one of these is attacked or robbed, 99% of the time it is attributed to an inside job, ironically, the driver since he's the only person that knows which way you're going. Now when you use this type of method, the gankers in this case would need to use other methods to gank you, but often by that stage it has become unprofitable to do so (in EVE) especially when someone else is already on their way on autopilot completely ovlivious to what's happening around him.
Now while there may not be 10,20 or more different routes you can take in EVE, there is always more than 1. Even if both routes have a ganker presence, there is still another way around which I briefly touched on in an earlier post. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
181
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Posted - 2012.09.29 18:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
ISD Praetoxx wrote:Suicide ganking is part of the game mechanics. As many have said, take precautions to protect yourself. It is not advisable to move more than the value of the freighter in your cargo-hold. For moving very expensive items such as 100 plex or 70 capital blueprints at a time, I suggest a transport ship for expensive items such as these. (see http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ships:Transport_Ships) for the specifics. You can take extra precautions against such attacks by scouting ahead with an alt or a member of your corporation to spot gate camps. Avoid auto-piloting with a full freighter. Avoid the regularly traveled trade routes. 10 extra jumps in the quiet space lanes is worth the cost of your freighter and it's cargo .. right? This is the sandbox, adapt to the challenges. Outsmart those who would lay siege on your love-tub and soak up the tears on the forums when they cry that freighters need to get nerfed to only use certain type of stargate. /thread
No, suicide ganking is a style of play based upon game mechanics that enable/disable other styles of play. That's like saying drake whelp fleets are a game mechanic.
As for the OP's statements - it costs a lot to field enough ships to kill a freighter before concord can show up. Of the suicide ganks done, this one is probably the best balanced of the lot at around 1 billion isk per attempt that takes a GANG of players to pull of.
Pretty decently balanced protection vs risks there. Not one of those brain-dead twits lulzing their KB stats up in cheap ships/fits but a gang that has to put out enough damage to kill that target before they lose all their stuff.
The only differences I'd like to see on it, again, is ganking showing those ships as PvP losses. KB's won't show that stuff and it's bunk that people can lose that many ships without those losses on their KB. The "rewards" from ganking include not showing failures and those should show. |
Tul Breetai
Freelance Wealth Redistribution Specialists Insurance Fraud.
1
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Posted - 2012.09.29 18:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:Advoid "Highways" When moving blueprints, use a Transport ship, I currently use a insta warp 15.5AU/s Crane w/20k ehp... Don't wrap your ****. Bring friends, be it either combat or logi. Make insta warp bookmarks for every jump in your route...
There's dozens upon dozens of ways to avoid getting ganked, people is just stupid.....really really stupid.
-EDIT- I also forgot to say: DON'T AUTOPILOT!!! And try to do your "runs" around downtime.
You mean "DON'T AUTOPILOT WITH BILLIONS IN CARGO!!!"
Bringing friends is usually overkill, you would only ever need them if you were caught, and you should never get caught (as there are preventative measures a'plenty). That includes not using containers (guaranteed drop), not using major trade routes (near-guaranteed cargo scan), use bookmarks for docking/undocking (to eliminate gank/scan window), don't let anyone know what you are doing where and when, etc. |
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