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Sollution to the 'Nerf the Lasers' sollution?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Andarias	Posted - 2005.03.07 02:37:00 - [1] I just thought of an amazing way to nerf the gakedon, and only the gankedon. And that's nerf the penalty for stacking heatsinks. Make it so that stacking more than 4 or 5 heatsinks starts giving vastly diminished, if any returns. Or limit the amount of heatsinks that you can fit on any given ship, as a ratio of it's low slots.
Lallante	Posted - 2005.03.07 03:22:00 - [2] I think the best solution would be some kind of corporal punishment against HAMMER. Perhaps a whipping? Thatll Learn him not to mess with amarr.. Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
Woopie	Posted - 2005.03.07 03:32:00 - [3] Originally by: Lallante I think the best solution would be some kind of corporal punishment against HAMMER. Perhaps a whipping? Thatll Learn him not to mess with amarr.. signed
Kinsy	Posted - 2005.03.07 04:57:00 - [4] Signed :P
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.03.07 07:23:00 - [5] Originally by: Lallante I think the best solution would be some kind of corporal punishment against HAMMER. Perhaps a whipping? Thatll Learn him not to mess with amarr.. \0/ Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Drommy	Posted - 2005.03.07 09:47:00 - [6] SIGNED, SIGNED AND A LITTLE... NO ALOT MORE SIGNED _______________________________________________ A good leader takes their people where they want to go A great leader takes their people not where they necessarily want to go, but ought too.
mahhy	Posted - 2005.03.07 09:51:00 - [7] Edited by: mahhy on 07/03/2005 09:51:04 Not signed. Pulse range reduction is the best way to go. And the crystal nerf is not even a big deal, regardless what people say. My 0.02 ISK anyhow. edit: spelling
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.03.07 10:03:00 - [8] Look Lallante, the whining is getitng beyond silly and into the lands of annoying now. Cut it already, there's no reason to complain at all and you know it. Stop behaving like some fps kiddie that got cheated of his candy _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Darkwolf	Posted - 2005.03.07 10:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Andarias I just thought of an amazing way to nerf the gakedon, and only the gankedon. And that's nerf the penalty for stacking heatsinks. Make it so that stacking more than 4 or 5 heatsinks starts giving vastly diminished, if any returns. Or limit the amount of heatsinks that you can fit on any given ship, as a ratio of it's low slots. Umm. That's already the case... The stacking penalty was introduced just for this reason. And I'd have to say I'm totally against limiting fittings based on any kind of arbitrary measure like "you can only put 5 heatsinks on an Armageddon". For the record, I also think that limiting you to 1 ab or 1 mwd is daft, but there you go :P
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.03.07 10:17:00 - [10] Darkwolf: off topic, but FYI. Tech 2 damage mods starts to give better return after the 4-5th module compared to the previous module. If you could fit about 32 Heat Sink II, you'd have negated the stacking penalty and would start to get a boost (that is, 32 dmg modules with stacking penalty behaves about the same as 32 dmg modules'd behave without stacking penalty). -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
mahhy	Posted - 2005.03.07 10:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Ithildin Darkwolf: off topic, but FYI. Tech 2 damage mods starts to give better return after the 4-5th module compared to the previous module. If you could fit about 32 Heat Sink II, you'd have negated the stacking penalty and would start to get a boost (that is, 32 dmg modules with stacking penalty behaves about the same as 32 dmg modules'd behave without stacking penalty). Its the 7th module that startss giving a slightly larger increase than the 6th module, if its a T2 mod giving 10% damage mod
meowcat	Posted - 2005.03.07 12:17:00 - [12] look at the graphs. pulse lasers STILL outdamage blasters over a much broader range, even after the "nerf" ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.03.07 12:25:00 - [13] Originally by: meowcat look at the graphs. pulse lasers STILL outdamage blasters over a much broader range, even after the "nerf" Before some pro-Amarrian anti-balance junky gets his hands on this, I'll do it: That's without ship bonuses. However, if you consider everything around the two turrets then not only will the blasters do worse net damage (less/no room for dmg mods), they also do it for extremely higher relative capacitor use and for much worse fitting requirements. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
fras	Posted - 2005.03.07 15:59:00 - [14] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: meowcat look at the graphs. pulse lasers STILL outdamage blasters over a much broader range, even after the "nerf" Before some pro-Amarrian anti-balance junky gets his hands on this, I'll do it: That's without ship bonuses. However, if you consider everything around the two turrets then not only will the blasters do worse net damage (less/no room for dmg mods), they also do it for extremely higher relative capacitor use and for much worse fitting requirements. I have an armageddon with megapulse II's, I couldn't care less about the nerf as I'll just buy 1 crystal longer for whatever range I needed before for a small damage nerf. This goes for gank setups & NPC setups. However I also have a Crusader that i'm going to have to strip, refit & most likely change it's style completely for after the changes. It seems to me the pro-nerf people are that busy fighting for it they don't realise it makes virtually no difference exactly where it's supposed to & nerfs things that arn't broken in the first place. imho the arma rof bonus needs to be switched for something none damage related. Simple as that.
Vee Bot	Posted - 2005.03.07 16:02:00 - [15] Like +5% optimal range ------------------ (_8(\|) BEWARE. EBIL HOMER. IF SPOTTED CALL THIS NUMBER 0-800-I-C-HOMER
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2005.03.07 16:16:00 - [16] Originally by: fras I have an armageddon with megapulse II's, I couldn't care less about the nerf as I'll just buy 1 crystal longer for whatever range I needed before for a small damage nerf. ... imho the arma rof bonus needs to be switched for something none damage related. Simple as that. So what you're saying is that you went them to impose a nerf that just reduces your damage, instead of a nerf that... just reduces your damage ? Originally by: fras & nerfs things that arn't broken in the first place. Mega pulses are being used to do short range damage at med-long range. Most people agree that is broken, so they are nerfing the range. Frigate sized pulses are being used to do close range damage at med-long range. Why is that not broken ? Originally by: fras imho the arma rof bonus needs to be switched for something none damage related. Simple as that. I've quoted this once already, but it's so bad I couldn't leave it alone. If the geddon has no damage bonus, then there is no reason to use one instead of an apoc, ever.
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2005.03.07 16:24:00 - [17] geddon is cheaper, and has a better locktime
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.03.07 16:26:00 - [18] Originally by: Toran Mehtar Frigate sized pulses are being used to do close range damage at med-long range. Why is that not broken ? It isn't broken because your statement isn't true. Small pulses with Radio fitted do less damage than most long-range guns loaded with ammo that gives them a similar optimal. This is especially true against armour of course.The advantage of the pulses is that they can switch to MF and do sub-blaster damage at close range too. How is that broken? They sacrifice performance in both areas in order to gain the flexibility to operate in both. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa	Posted - 2005.03.07 16:52:00 - [19] Originally by: Rod Blaine Look Lallante, the whining is getitng beyond silly and into the lands of annoying now. Cut it already, there's no reason to complain at all and you know it. Stop behaving like some fps kiddie that got cheated of his candy /me applauds at Rod Blaine
fras	Posted - 2005.03.07 16:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Toran Mehtar Originally by: fras I have an armageddon with megapulse II's, I couldn't care less about the nerf as I'll just buy 1 crystal longer for whatever range I needed before for a small damage nerf. ... imho the arma rof bonus needs to be switched for something none damage related. Simple as that. So what you're saying is that you went them to impose a nerf that just reduces your damage, instead of a nerf that... just reduces your damage ? No i'm talking about a nerf that significantly reduces the damage of the arma, more so than a range nerf does - and exactly where it is needed rather than a nerf that affects every amarr ship and probably BS size least. Originally by: Toran Mehtar Originally by: fras & nerfs things that arn't broken in the first place. Mega pulses are being used to do short range damage at med-long range. Most people agree that is broken, so they are nerfing the range. I agree that megapulse needs nerfing, but not in this way. Originally by: Toran Mehtar Frigate sized pulses are being used to do close range damage at med-long range. Why is that not broken ? Please check that with ship bonus' figured in, Lvl 5 frigate means small pulse' do about a 3rd less damage than blasters. That together with frigate size gun ranges, the range of webs & other factors like tracking and I do not think they are broken. Originally by: Toran Mehtar Originally by: fras imho the arma rof bonus needs to be switched for something none damage related. Simple as that. I've quoted this once already, but it's so bad I couldn't leave it alone. If the geddon has no damage bonus, then there is no reason to use one instead of an apoc, ever. The replacement bonus could give the arma a very different role to the apoc. That aside look at the Typhoon and how it differs from a Tempest yet people still use the Typhoon. There's slot loudout, less damage, less cap, less HP, less price & more drones. Pretty similar to how an arma would be without the ROF bonus. You might say the suggestion is 'so bad' but you fail to notice it's already been successfully integrated into the game.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2005.03.07 16:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Julien Derida It isn't broken because your statement isn't true. Small pulses with Radio fitted do less damage than most long-range guns loaded with ammo that gives them a similar optimal. This is especially true against armour of course.The advantage of the pulses is that they can switch to MF and do sub-blaster damage at close range too. How is that broken? They sacrifice performance in both areas in order to gain the flexibility to operate in both. Mega pulses with Radio fitted do less damage than most long-range guns loaded with ammo that gives them a similar optimal. This is especially true against armour of course.The advantage of the pulses is that they can switch to MF and do sub-blaster damage at close range too. Why is it broken in one case and not the other ?
HeLlRaIzA666	Posted - 2005.03.07 18:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Lallante I think the best solution would be some kind of corporal punishment against HAMMER. Perhaps a whipping? Thatll Learn him not to mess with amarr.. SIGNED!!!! LEAVE AMARR ALONE, Nerf minmatar they dont deserve to do anything more than being slaves :P j/k, but seriously, LEAVE AMARR ALONE -------------------------------------------- In War There Are No Runners Up... Image by Denrace
HeLlRaIzA666	Posted - 2005.03.07 18:39:00 - [23] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: meowcat look at the graphs. pulse lasers STILL outdamage blasters over a much broader range, even after the "nerf" Before some pro-Amarrian anti-balance junky gets his hands on this, I'll do it: That's without ship bonuses. However, if you consider everything around the two turrets then not only will the blasters do worse net damage (less/no room for dmg mods), they also do it for extremely higher relative capacitor use and for much worse fitting requirements. WRong, Speak to loxy abt blasters not doing much damage -------------------------------------------- In War There Are No Runners Up... Image by Denrace
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.03.07 19:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Toran Mehtar Mega pulses with Radio fitted do less damage than most long-range guns loaded with ammo that gives them a similar optimal. This is especially true against armour of course.The advantage of the pulses is that they can switch to MF and do sub-blaster damage at close range too. Why is it broken in one case and not the other ? It is broken in BS combat because the range differences are large and BS are slow. For a BS, range flexibility is a very important attribute as it offsets its lack of speed. A BS with less flexible guns has to move into it's prefferred range, by which time the ship with the flexible gun will have killed it. This is why Megapulse > All. It is not broken in frig combat because the range differences are very small and combat takes place at a very high speed. Gun range flexibility is much less useful when it only takes a ship with less flexible guns 2-3 secs to get into their preferred range. Hence a smart Taranis pilot with blasters can usually kill a Crusader who is trying to engage at 14km. All it takes is the tap of a button and 2 seconds and the Taranis is in blaster-range. The Crusader will have fired 1 volley in this time, certainly not enough to offset it's lesser damage at close-range. As I have been saying for the last week, Frig combat is VERY different to BS combat. A Large gun imbalance does NOT necessarily imply a Small gun imbalance. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Nafri	Posted - 2005.03.07 19:35:00 - [25] Originally by: HeLlRaIzA666 Originally by: Lallante I think the best solution would be some kind of corporal punishment against HAMMER. Perhaps a whipping? Thatll Learn him not to mess with amarr.. SIGNED!!!! LEAVE AMARR ALONE, Nerf minmatar they dont deserve to do anything more than being slaves :P j/k, but seriously, LEAVE AMARR ALONE mhh no? and sorry l33t is just so outdated dude Wanna fly with me?
AAPaladin	Posted - 2005.03.07 21:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Rod Blaine Look Lallante, the whining is getitng beyond silly and into the lands of annoying now. Cut it already, there's no reason to complain at all and you know it. Stop behaving like some fps kiddie that got cheated of his candy ROFL! How many post has she complained about laser now anyway?
HeLlRaIzA666	Posted - 2005.03.07 22:10:00 - [27] Originally by: AAPaladin Originally by: Rod Blaine Look Lallante, the whining is getitng beyond silly and into the lands of annoying now. Cut it already, there's no reason to complain at all and you know it. Stop behaving like some fps kiddie that got cheated of his candy ROFL! How many post has she complained about laser now anyway? How many people whined abt projectiles.... -------------------------------------------- In War There Are No Runners Up... Image by Denrace
Meridius	Posted - 2005.03.07 22:45:00 - [28] Originally by: HeLlRaIzA666 Originally by: AAPaladin Originally by: Rod Blaine Look Lallante, the whining is getitng beyond silly and into the lands of annoying now. Cut it already, there's no reason to complain at all and you know it. Stop behaving like some fps kiddie that got cheated of his candy ROFL! How many post has she complained about laser now anyway? How many people whined abt projectiles.... owned tbh ________________________________________________________
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.03.08 00:14:00 - [29] People don't get that lasers are slightly better than thier counterparts because the bs's don't have any damage/rof/tracking ship bonuses. Amarrian bs's have more turrets because- More turrets+slighly better guns = ship bonuses + dronebay/flexibility I would have completely agreed with a slight shortening of the Megapulse laser. It was too good at many different ranges. The imbalances came from the Arma's rof bonus. Guess what? Even with all the changes staying as-is the Arma is still going to pwnomgbbqfishsticks during any type of small fleet/large fleet ops. Only now all those crusader/zealot pilots are going to be flying Gankageddons because the pulse nerf destroyed the other Amarrian ships. Only now everyone will be fitting Tachys. More expensive, but with a 25km optimal and a falloff of 23km I can do a tremendous amount of damage with 7 Tachys. Do I have to fit 3 RCU's or 2 RCU2's? Yup. But hell, that t2 repairer on the old setup wasn't doing me any real good anyway. Welcome to fleet battles comprised of Tachygeddons. You nerfed everything else so that's all amarrians have to fly. Huge alpha strikes will be even more prevalent than they were before. Nyxus
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2005.03.08 07:00:00 - [30] I think this nerf is bad because the only thing I would have changed to lasers were the Arma's RoF bonus and possibly some fitting requirements on small beams, so that inties and frigs could actually use them. And I was a "whiner" about projs... and I am now a "whiner" about the overnerfage of lasers. Would I still have "whined" about them... yes because you all suck cap. -----

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