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Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4484
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Posted - 2012.10.01 04:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur in another topic wrote:This 'game' allows one to play for free by taking advantage of other people's lack of malice, and their belief that people playing video games share some form of common decency instead of solipsistic absolute relativism. Gevlin wrote:Join a corp that is active. This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf. How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? Its good to be Gallente. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
583
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Posted - 2012.10.01 04:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Not liking it is one thing, saying it has no depth is demonstrably false when comparing it to any other MMO.
I used the word of the day so everybody has to "scream real loud"! From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9668
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Posted - 2012.10.01 04:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? Easily. There's no real inherent conflict between them. The game does allow you to take advantage of other people's na+»vety to earn enough ISK to play without paying for it yourself, and it is much worse if you try to solo it. You just have to remember that the people you team up with might at any point take advantage of any thoughtless mistake you make. The key word is GÇ£mightGÇ¥, depending on what else you share with themGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
87
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Posted - 2012.10.01 04:50:00 -
[64] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:EglantinFinfleur in another topic wrote:This 'game' allows one to play for free by taking advantage of other people's lack of malice, and their belief that people playing video games share some form of common decency instead of solipsistic absolute relativism. Gevlin wrote:Join a corp that is active. This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf. How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? Creeps you out, doesn't it?
PS: going up to that stranger and asking him/her out.. where does the thrill come from? |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2424
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Posted - 2012.10.01 05:10:00 -
[65] - Quote
Tres Farmer wrote:Paul Oliver wrote:EglantinFinfleur in another topic wrote:This 'game' allows one to play for free by taking advantage of other people's lack of malice, and their belief that people playing video games share some form of common decency instead of solipsistic absolute relativism. Gevlin wrote:Join a corp that is active. This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf. How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? Creeps you out, doesn't it? PS: going up to that stranger and asking him/her out.. where does the thrill come from?
Lots of things on the forums do that, almost daily I feel like this at least once
http://youtu.be/UdI7RJr9ooA "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
609
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Posted - 2012.10.01 05:14:00 -
[66] - Quote
Vulix wrote:EVE is a very shallow game. Sure, there is a lot of things you can do, but most of them are implemented poorly and are incomplete. There is no one part of the game for me that seems to be incredibly polished and deeply involving. Even null sec, the highlight of this game apparently, boils down to whoever can have the most people online wins.
Planetary interaction blows.
Incursions are overdone by everyone and their mother
I see the same scams over and over, where's the creativity?
Exploration sucks unless you log on right after down-time
Trading is no different than any other game, so it's moot
There are only a few ships worth flying for PvP
Wormholes are a grind
Missions are a grind
Mining is a grind
Station atmosphere is still too ****** to breath
etc
Considering dropping subscription for a few months and trying it out again after the patch, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Honestly, what can we expect to change? I feel like CCP has pursued just shoving as much crap into this game as possible, but everything comes down to very simple mechanics that are incredibly time-consuming yet only engage the player at a very elementary level. If you think EvE is shallow , than i don't want to know what you think of WoW or any of the WoW clones out there ( my idea FLAT) EvE returns what you put in and unlike any other game the more you put in the more you get out I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
88
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Posted - 2012.10.01 05:45:00 -
[67] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Tres Farmer wrote:Paul Oliver wrote:EglantinFinfleur in another topic wrote:This 'game' allows one to play for free by taking advantage of other people's lack of malice, and their belief that people playing video games share some form of common decency instead of solipsistic absolute relativism. Gevlin wrote:Join a corp that is active. This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf. How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2? Creeps you out, doesn't it? PS: going up to that stranger and asking him/her out.. where does the thrill come from? Lots of things on the forums interwebz do that, almost daily I feel like this at least once http://youtu.be/UdI7RJr9ooA FYP |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1286
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Posted - 2012.10.01 05:50:00 -
[68] - Quote
PVE will be shallow in any game until humans invent Artificial Intelligence.
And then we need to discuss the ethics of locking AIs inside game universes.
Luckily EVE is an excellent MMO, and the level or human interaction goes very deep indeed. You can of course play the game avoiding almost all interaction, or assume a role that limits the ways that others interact with you.
My goals and challenges in the game now are organisational (CEO of a small wh pvp corp and alliance council member), and this rabbit hole is as deep as any I've seen.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
97
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Posted - 2012.10.01 08:00:00 -
[69] - Quote
Vulix wrote:EVE is a very shallow game. Sure, there is a lot of things you can do, but most of them are implemented poorly and are incomplete. There is no one part of the game for me that seems to be incredibly polished and deeply involving. Even null sec, the highlight of this game apparently, boils down to whoever can have the most people online wins.
Planetary interaction blows.
Incursions are overdone by everyone and their mother
I see the same scams over and over, where's the creativity?
Exploration sucks unless you log on right after down-time
Trading is no different than any other game, so it's moot
There are only a few ships worth flying for PvP
Wormholes are a grind
Missions are a grind
Mining is a grind
Station atmosphere is still too ****** to breath
etc
Considering dropping subscription for a few months and trying it out again after the patch, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Honestly, what can we expect to change? I feel like CCP has pursued just shoving as much crap into this game as possible, but everything comes down to very simple mechanics that are incredibly time-consuming yet only engage the player at a very elementary level.
Yea you are right. You are too good for this game. Go back to WoW. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
773
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Posted - 2012.10.01 08:15:00 -
[70] - Quote
Vulix wrote:Even null sec, the highlight of this game apparently, boils down to whoever can have the most people online wins.
Exploration sucks unless you log on right after down-time
Trading is no different than any other game, so it's moot
There are only a few ships worth flying for PvP All of these are wrong. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4720
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Posted - 2012.10.01 08:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
Paul Oliver wrote:EglantinFinfleur in another topic wrote:This 'game' allows one to play for free by taking advantage of other people's lack of malice, and their belief that people playing video games share some form of common decency instead of solipsistic absolute relativism. Gevlin wrote:Join a corp that is active. This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf. How does one reconcile quote 1 with quote 2?
You could make an argument that it's possible to make yourself sufficiently important to your EVE associates that it's not worth their while dicking you over.
Dickery of that sort seems to be more common amongst the good honest properly socialised denizens of hi-sec than amongst the basement-dwelling sociopaths of 0.0 because basically, you need to ensure that the rewards for someone dicking you over are always less than the loss from losing you as a comrade. In 0.0, you can make yourself much more valuable than you can in hi-sec, because corp-mates and alliance-mates rely on each other to a much greater degree.
Conversely, being an unpleasant, selfish, lazy, unhelpful, unsociable person in 0.0 will radically lower your perceived value even if you can fly a Titan. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Tao Dolcino
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
7
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Posted - 2012.10.01 08:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:If you compare this game to Ultima Online, they both pursue similar game designs to provide players with things to do, but UO does it so much better. Why can't EVE do it well too? For one, EVE isn't design around giving players things to do. It's designed around making players give themselves things to do. From this, it sounds like your problem is a classic theme park vs. sandbox issue.
I just react on this point, because i have played Ultima Online for many years, and i want to make clear that it's not at all a theme park mmo, it's a pure sandbox very comparable to EVE, and indeed you get back only what you put in it. |
Alice Saki
8400
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Posted - 2012.10.01 10:07:00 -
[73] - Quote
Guess I'm Shallow, Oh well ^_^ Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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Josef Djugashvilis
619
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Posted - 2012.10.01 10:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
I have the opposite 'problem' with Eve.
There are so many things to get deeply involved in and to understand, that I almost wish CCP would stop adding content for a while so I can catch up!
There are no 'shallow' aspects of Eve. Anything you do, from the supposedly mundane, mining, missions running etc can be very involving. The market alone is an entire complex game in itself.
Mine alone in lo-sec, run missions in different ships with different fitting etc.
CCP provides the sandbox, what we do, or do not do in the sandbox is up to us.
The Ice Interdiction was a supreme example of players creating game content.
Plot the downfall of the Goons for example, that should be a deep and involving experience, enough for anyone.
Use your imagination and create your own content. I took the wrong turn years ago. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
530
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Posted - 2012.10.01 10:31:00 -
[75] - Quote
you can drown in an inch of water. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Mme Pinkerton
92
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Posted - 2012.10.01 10:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vulix wrote:I brought up the age thing to give some context to the type of player I am. However, people were taking that information and using it for a different purpose, i.e. discrediting my original post. Yes, wellGǪ as someone who's been around for two years, you'd be expected to know how exploration works (especially if you're going to complain about it) and how the market differs from what pretty much all other games offer (especially if you're going to claim that it's same-old same-old). How does the market differ from what other games offer?
I have been playing EVE for 4 years, have tried various styles of trading and spend a lot of time hanging out with people who do trading in EVE and have also played WoW, RIFT and GW2 - and, quite frankly, I don't see it.
The way trading works in these games is basically identical and a person who knows how to do it in one will be able to successful in any of the others (take gevlon goblin if you need an example).
Especially the hallmarks of "sophisticated" trading in EVE - pre-patch speculation and manipulation - can be found 1:1 in WoW.
What is different about the market in EVE? - compartementalized into regions (which makesit less efficient and offers more opportunity for traders) - broker system - buy orders - margin trading
Of these margin trading does probably have the biggest impact on the way trading works, buy orders are nice to have but hardly unique (see GW2), the broker system doesn't have much of an impact (most people buy from the order with the best price anyways) and the different regions don't add much in complexity ("buy low - sell high" vs "buy low - ship it - sell high") and are comparable to the three auction houses in WoW (BMAH doesn't count).
So what is special about the way the market in EVE works?
An IPO guide (David H'Levi) | Towards a Positive Argument For Investing (RAW23) | Freighter Operations 101 (Kazuo Ishiguro) | Dominion market analysis (Akita T)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9669
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Posted - 2012.10.01 10:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
Mme Pinkerton wrote:So what is special about the way the market in EVE works? For one, it's the game's engine GÇö the nexus between the production and the destruction cycles. In and of itself, that's different from many (most, even?) games, which rather have a gather/obsolescence cycle that generates a different pattern of both supply and demand. For another, it's the nature of those driving factors: they're entirely player-driven, which leads to a very different psychology and dynamic in the market than if half of it is run by NPCs.
The trading is the same: buy low, sell high, anticipate supply and demand. The difference is the actual market where this trading takes place: the reasons why prices are low or high and why supply demand will swing the way they do. Neither pre-patch speculation or manipulation is particularly sophisticated, because those are so obvious. The fun part lies in doing the same in the face of the player-driven ebbs and flows and keeping in mind all the interdependencies between goods and the ripple-effects that changes cause. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
40
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Posted - 2012.10.01 10:57:00 -
[78] - Quote
Disagree with OP on the game being shallow.
I do agree that many of the game features should be much more interesting in terms of gameplay. CCP have the "big picture" right, but many of the core gameplay mechanics are in dire need of an overhaul (mining f.e.). |
Shaco LaRusko
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Vulix wrote:EVE is a very shallow game. Sure, there is a lot of things you can do, but most of them are implemented poorly and are incomplete. There is no one part of the game for me that seems to be incredibly polished and deeply involving. Even null sec, the highlight of this game apparently, boils down to whoever can have the most people online wins.
Planetary interaction blows.
Incursions are overdone by everyone and their mother
I see the same scams over and over, where's the creativity?
Exploration sucks unless you log on right after down-time
Trading is no different than any other game, so it's moot
There are only a few ships worth flying for PvP
Wormholes are a grind
Missions are a grind
Mining is a grind
Station atmosphere is still too ****** to breath
etc
Considering dropping subscription for a few months and trying it out again after the patch, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Honestly, what can we expect to change? I feel like CCP has pursued just shoving as much crap into this game as possible, but everything comes down to very simple mechanics that are incredibly time-consuming yet only engage the player at a very elementary level.
This may all be true and I feel like it is many times but let me tell you, the friends you make and those hero moments you have make it all worth it. I remember once a we were working on a TCU and an enemy fleet came in outnumbering us 3 to 1. We still managed to down thier TCU while taking out half their fleet. It took us almost 5 hours and it was just one intense moment after another. I remember we were calling for alliance mates to sneak in ammo at some point. Yes there is a lot of grind in game but what mmo doesnt. Eve isnt like the rest of the mmo's out there. You have to go look for the good times here and there are plenty to be had and they are far more rewarding than instance of any game ive ever played. |
HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:47:00 -
[80] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vulix wrote:I'm not sure why people keep nagging on my length of stay in New Eden. Because you brought it up as an argument forGǪ something. Experience, maybe? Quote:It's not like playing this game any longer or something would give my original post a sense of authority that magically makes it more valid. Exactly. So why did you bring it up? Quote:The points I raised would be there whether I was a 1 day old player, or if I've been playing since 03 GǪand our counter-points is that the problem is how you choose to play it, and your expectations of what the game is supposed to provide you with. We don't feel it's shallow because we take the tools to build a deep game for ourselves. You do something else and thus find it shallow.
I dont know if what the OP says is valid or not, but I do know that the only person on these forums that knows how the OP played the game and to what level he/she played it would be the OP.
I understand taking up for a game that you may love and need to justify or quantify your time spent playing it.
To ASSume that the OP played the game different, or not as intended, or somehow inferior just because you dont agree with the OP's assesment of the game would be an ininjustice not only to OP but to yourself as well |
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Smiknight
The Plebian Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.10.01 14:35:00 -
[81] - Quote
OP, how dare you criticize my favorite game/tv show/candidate/religion? Don't you understand that despite their failures, you are just doing it wrong and therefore cannot have a valid point in any way/shape/form?
Anyone who has been playing this game for longer than 2-3 years and doesn't think it's becoming more shallow is lying to themselves and therefore will not ever listen to anything you say, let alone take you seriously, so you are pretty much talking to a wall. Do you understand how much resurrection hurts? |
Mathrin
Synthetic Solution Synthetic Systems
0
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Posted - 2012.10.01 15:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
Vulix wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Vulix wrote: If you compare this game to Ultima Online, they both pursue similar game designs to provide players with things to do, but UO does it so much better. Why can't EVE do it well too?
Which game's still around? Both actually. Again, says something about UO. It exists in both an official server and private servers these days
There is a big reason for me right there. Honestly who wants to play a multiserver game? I find it very unappealing. |
Mathrin
Synthetic Solution Synthetic Systems
0
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Posted - 2012.10.01 15:43:00 -
[83] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Vulix wrote:Malcanis wrote:Vulix wrote:Malcanis wrote:EVE gives you back exactly what you put in. People who play it in a boring, safe way will have a boring safe experience. I have been in a null sec alliance for a year and a half on my alt now Yay you. You can play in a boring, safe way in a nullsec alliance too. Are you? The fact that you are on the forum defending the game instead of actually playing it probably says something about how engaging it is to you I'm in fleet literally as I type this. Dual screens are awesome
And some of us(like me) defend it from work cuz we can't stay away. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9674
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Posted - 2012.10.01 16:13:00 -
[84] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:To ASSume that the OP played the game different, or not as intended, or somehow inferior just because you dont agree with the OP's assesment of the game would be an ininjustice not only to OP but to yourself as well GǪand as luck would have it, it's not an assumption but something the OP himself makes clear. He plays the game as a grind; he is misinformed about basic game mechanics; the OP expresses a wish that the game entertain him rather than him creating his own entertainment.
Add to this the general truism that the game gives back what you put into it, and it turns out to be pretty spot on. I don't assume that the OP played the game differently because I disagree with his assessment; I disagree with his assessment because he rather clearly demonstrates that it comes from him playing the game differently and expecting something of it that it never intended to offer. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
634
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Posted - 2012.10.02 14:12:00 -
[85] - Quote
Vulix wrote: Even null sec, the highlight of this game apparently, boils down to whoever can have the most people online wins.
What a shocker, and in a multi-player game, too! How dare they. Surely it would be better if it was "he who has the biggest wallet wins". /sarcasm
As for only a few ships being any good for PvP - I beg to differ. There is no "I win" ship in EvE. Every ship can be countered. Of course some ships are easier to fly than others, some ships do more damage than others and yes there are combinations where if you are flying anything but ship X, Y or Z you are going to die to ship A. But mostly it's about making the right call in that first split second - do I engage or not, do I kite, do I close in, etc.
Yesterday a few of my alliance members spent an hour or so playing tag with a gang from another alliance. We didn't kill them. We didn't get killed. Why? Because they didn't screw up. But neither did we. Shots were fired, ships were tackled, but nothing conclusive happened. When you get better you only die because you screw up (or you get jumped). Ship "type" has nothing to do with it.
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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
865
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Posted - 2012.10.02 14:29:00 -
[86] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:EVE gives you back exactly what you put in. People who play it in a boring, safe way will have a boring safe experience.
Allow me to quote Malcanis on this very relevant fact.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
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