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Cadesc
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
2
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Posted - 2012.10.01 11:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
basic idea:
Instead of being able to use the missile launcher (loaded with defender missiles) when missiles flying towards you or your allies, you can use the missile launcher the same way as you would use it with regular missiles.
how would it work:
When you use your missile launcher (loaded with defender missiles) on a ship, the targeted ship gets a "debuff". Each of your launchers would "lock" one launcher of the targeted ship. When ever a "locked" launcher launches a regular missile, your launcher would launch a defender missile to counter this missile.
advantage:
-The game does not need to decide who are your allies and your enemies.
-The game can easily define when a defender missile should be launched and what's the target of the defender missile.
-missile launcher (loaded with defender missiles) could cycle like regular modules, because the point of time when a defender missile is launched would be independent.
for instance:
Ship 1 - aggressor (launches regular missiles against the prey)
Ship 2 - prey (needs to suffer for this instance  )
Ship 3 - defender (launches defender missiles against the aggressor)
aggressor locks the prey
prey screams for help
defender locks the aggressor
aggressor launches regular missiles from his 7 launchers against the prey
defender activates his 4 missile launcher (loaded with defender missiles)
-> aggressor has now "locked" 4 of his 7 missile launchers by the 4 missile launcher of the defender
aggressor launches regular missiles from his 7 launchers against the prey (again)
-> the defender automatically launches 4 defender missiles
at this point the game could decide whether the defender missiles are able to destroy the regular missiles or not.
math:
(approximation: the target flies at the same speed and does not chance the direction.)
mv: (missile velocity)
v: (velocity)
rv: (radial velocity)
tv: (transversal velocity, positive when filing away from a ship)
sqr (x): square root of x
a missile needs to compensate the radial and the transversal velocity to hit the target.
xr = sqr(mv^2 - rv^2)
xr would be the missile velocity towards the target, after compensating the radial velocity
x = xr - tv = sqr(mv^2 - rv^2) - tv
x would be the missile velocity towards the target, after compensating the radial and the transversal velocity
according to the instance:
to decide if the defender missiles hit you could use this formula:
traveltime_ defender_prey = distance_defender_prey / (sqr(mv_defender^2 - rv_defender_prey^2) - tv_defender_prey)
traveltime_ aggressor_prey = distance_aggressor_prey / (sqr(mv_aggressor^2 - rv_aggressor_prey^2) - tv_aggressor_prey)
if (traveltime_ defender_prey < traveltime_ aggressor_prey)
{
defender missiles destroy the regular missiles
}
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Maeltstome
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
Intrepid Crossing
100
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 11:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
1 frigate could then lock out a large number of missile battleships or even dreadnaughts. |
Kosetzu
Avitus Lugus
13
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 12:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote: 1 frigate could then lock out a large number of missile battleships or even dreadnaughts.
I think having light/heavy/cruise etc defender missiles might be a good idea. It takes what, 4 defenders to stop a torpedo? Instead make it so they are most effective on their class of missile, e.g. light defender vs light missiles and so on. And to prevent everyone from just using the largest ones available make them less effective versus smaller missiles, like missiles work on ships now. |
Cadesc
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 12:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
You can lock one launcher (regular missiles) per launcher (defender missiles) on your ship.
a frigate has about 4 launchers, a battleship about 6-8.
so one frigate couldn't even lock out one battle ship. |
Cadesc
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 12:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kosetzu wrote:Maeltstome wrote: 1 frigate could then lock out a large number of missile battleships or even dreadnaughts. I think having light/heavy/cruise etc defender missiles might be a good idea. It takes what, 4 defenders to stop a torpedo? Instead make it so they are most effective on their class of missile, e.g. light defender vs light missiles and so on. And to prevent everyone from just using the largest ones available make them less effective versus smaller missiles, like missiles work on ships now.
in this case a torpedo launcher (regular torpedoes) could need more than one launcher (defender missiles) to be locked out, the system keeps the same. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 13:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
iirc, the problem wih defenders is that they are too heavy on server CPU. i'm not sure if your solution would do anything to circumvent that issue.
i recently had another idea where defenders would work the same as ASBs, except they would only "tank" missile damage. you cuold still keep the missile animation but it would be strictly client-side.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Jerick Ludhowe
Toxic Waste Industries
160
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 13:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Best solution at this point is to just remove them. TDs now effect missiles so there is really no point :/ |
Cadesc
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 14:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
This should be an alternative to TD for missiles.
TD's for missiles and defender missiles would be too much |
Alexa Coates
Red Fleet
186
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 15:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
boost their damage so they actually kill some missiles. there, solved.
Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
248
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 03:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Just add proper point defense mods and guns and rockets and and and stuff. Make anti missile drones ! |
Dibblerette
The Phantom Regiment
THE ROYAL NAVY
96
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 14:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:Just add proper point defense mods and guns and rockets and and and stuff. Make anti missile drones !
Defender drones would looks awesome in action! I just don't see a situation where I would rather be killing 10-20% of a drakes DPS than having a 10-20% chance to jam him out with EC-300s, or whatever.
It WOULD be cool to see carriers using them against a drake blob, but think of the poor CPUs  |
Wardeneo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 12:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't really like the idea of TD's affecting missiles, they should affect turrets only.
But the problem with defenders is they require you to stop firing normal ammo and load defenders - whereas any ship wanting to disrupt turrets can still fire damage ammo but use a med slot module (TD) to affect another ships turrets...
So why not remove defenders all together and create a mid slot missile disruption module that can be loaded with scripts like a TD.
One script could disrupt a missiles propulsion system and this reduce its velocity/ flight time and thus reducing its range (like a TD can do to a turrets range) and another script that alters the missiles explosion velocity to make it less effective against smaller ships ( similar affect to tracking effect for turrets)
This way you won't render a missile boat useless, but make them less effective an thus force them to alter there play style like you have to do in a turret ship when a TD is used against them.
This is what I believe would need to happen to make missile disputing effective.
-Wardeneo- |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
24
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 13:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
I've always thought Defenders should be anti drone. There is already a missile debuffer coming. |
Dread Pirate Pete
Tribal Core
Defiant Legacy
67
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 13:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:I've always thought Defenders should be anti drone.
Nah, that should be Auto Targeting Missiles. Just change them to target closest target of their own size class. Load lights into utili slot launcher and it shoots drones orbiting you. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
24
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Don't FOFs already go after the nearest aggressive target? Anyway, the idea was more along the lines for ships without launchers, a new module that doesn't require a launcher hardpoint. |
Cadesc
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 16:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wardeneo wrote:I don't really like the idea of TD's affecting missiles, they should affect turrets only.
But the problem with defenders is they require you to stop firing normal ammo and load defenders - whereas any ship wanting to disrupt turrets can still fire damage ammo but use a med slot module (TD) to affect another ships turrets...
So why not remove defenders all together and create a mid slot missile disruption module that can be loaded with scripts like a TD.
One script could disrupt a missiles propulsion system and this reduce its velocity/ flight time and thus reducing its range (like a TD can do to a turrets range) and another script that alters the missiles explosion velocity to make it less effective against smaller ships ( similar affect to tracking effect for turrets)
This way you won't render a missile boat useless, but make them less effective an thus force them to alter there play style like you have to do in a turret ship when a TD is used against them.
This is what I believe would need to happen to make missile disrupting effective.
-Wardeneo-
With turret boats you have the ability to reduce the effect of TD's, by maneuvering well. You can't do this with missile boats.
If you like to affect missile range, you would change the flight time. If you change the missile velocity, you would get some side effects. (kiting, varying range depending on the target velocity, ...)
In general I think that missile range is something you should not be able to affect with a module. The reason is flight time. The fact that missiles need some time to reach their destination results in a varying range, depending on the targets velocity and direction. That means you can already affect missile range. In long range combat you could warp between two points and avoid missile damage completely.
I think turrets and missiles work in such different ways, that a defense system which works out well for one weapon systems, would not work for both as well.
I don't think that the TD system would be a good solution. I don't know if defender missiles would be a better solution.
The solution I proposed is just an idea for a defender missile fix. This implementation should be similar in CPU load as two missile boats shooting each other.
I pretty much like this idea instad of the missile TD:
Cadesc wrote:flare launcher idea: Flares seems to be the logical defence mechanism against missiles. The goal is to reduce missile damage to small ships, by reducing their signatur radius or increasing the missiles explosion radius. It should be an area of effect (aoe?) module (stacking vs not stacking?). So every ship inside of the area would have a smaller signatur radius or every missile hitting a ship inside of the area would have an increasing explosion radius. Maybe you could switch between explosion radius increase and signatur radius decrease by switching scripts (ammunition). -- Mid slot (maybe high slot? maybe just new ammonistion for missile launcher?) grafics: Just look at this pictures! I'm sure CCP would do a good Job on this task. :P flares!!!more flares!and one more!Why would it be awsome? -new tactical possibilities (small ships -> agile -> formate to get more advantage from a single module) -awsome look -countermeasure to target painters -new mechanism -new skill -missiles would still have their big advantage to always deal damage -...but you could reduce the damage effectively |
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