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XETIC Alts whip up war costs???

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Nyk0n	Posted - 2005.03.09 02:20:00 - [1] Good evening all Just brought to my attention by a frend in XETIC this is there latest brainchild...... On the topic of increaseing XETIC's numbers with alt corps... Quote: This was already discussed earlier and turned down. I please the council to discuss it again and eventually vote on it. As the war against S.A.S. has shown, some ppl tend to declare war on the largest alliance in game just due to the fact that we have the most "targets" for them to shoot. Declaring war on their main corp is also ineffective - they simply switch charachters if spotted. I think this behaviour combined with a press release explaining our intentions would for ce CCP to change the alliance war system. From an ccp official we know that increasing the alliance by alt corps is not an exploit. So we are allowed to do it. To prevent bad reactions, we act offensively: We post our intentions. The griefers will complain for sure (what do you expect ?), the good players will understand. Brought forth by: XF President Yes im a alt (and a fa alt at that) but belive it or not this info IS accurate. I invite the XF President to say otherwise
Anikan	Posted - 2005.03.09 02:39:00 - [2] Edited by: Anikan on 09/03/2005 02:39:34 2nd post and IBTL - This is the biggest flame bait I have seen in a while :D Enjoy it /me stares at Max lol Ani Out Yarr EDIT - someone beat me to first post :(
MC Hammer	Posted - 2005.03.09 02:39:00 - [3] Must suck to be so desperate and in an alliance.
Leno	Posted - 2005.03.09 02:42:00 - [4] Why would he sign it XF President and not his name? --------------- RIP - Smoske, My Friend
TheUnkown	Posted - 2005.03.09 03:06:00 - [5] Originally by: Nyk0n Good evening all Just brought to my attention by a frend in XETIC this is there latest brainchild...... On the topic of increaseing XETIC's numbers with alt corps... Quote: This was already discussed earlier and turned down. I please the council to discuss it again and eventually vote on it. As the war against S.A.S. has shown, some ppl tend to declare war on the largest alliance in game just due to the fact that we have the most "targets" for them to shoot. Declaring war on their main corp is also ineffective - they simply switch charachters if spotted. I think this behaviour combined with a press release explaining our intentions would for ce CCP to change the alliance war system. From an ccp official we know that increasing the alliance by alt corps is not an exploit. So we are allowed to do it. To prevent bad reactions, we act offensively: We post our intentions. The griefers will complain for sure (what do you expect ?), the good players will understand. Brought forth by: XF President Yes im a alt (and a fa alt at that) but belive it or not this info IS accurate. I invite the XF President to say otherwise It would be nice if people would learn to get a life for a change...and a actual life not a game life I WILL NOT LOSE...Always KILL...Never KILLED
Nyk0n	Posted - 2005.03.09 03:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Leno Why would he sign it XF President and not his name? I dunno why dont ya ask im
Krapz	Posted - 2005.03.09 03:58:00 - [7] Nykon, First off, it's sad that I'm even replying to an alt, but under the circumstances, I'll make an exception. Secondly, if you have an issue w/ Conram or CYVOK, take it to them. Again, just like before, this is a proposal. Third. It's not that XF doesn't fight, or can't win wars. We're not really concerned about the defense of our alliance, we have that well under control. This motion that has been suggested simply is being brought forth to help address the current (poorly planned) game mechanics. It's no more unfair than using dual MWD when it was allowed. If it does go through, then the majority of the voting power in XF wanted it to happen. I don't see what is so difficult to understand why this is being brought up, or discussed. The game has flaws. Every organization uses the current game mechanics to the best of their ability. I'm sure if CCP had an issue with it, they' contact Conram or CYVOK. Why is it there are the vocal minorty who continue to see this as an issue? We could just as easily immediately surrender all wars dec'ed on us, but that would be a "sploit" too by your definition I'm sure.... If the game were perfect, no one would play. Get over it, move along, nothing to see here. -- Insert cool graphics sig here --
Y'anehn Marra	Posted - 2005.03.09 04:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Krapz Nykon, It's no more unfair than using dual MWD when it was allowed. Still pretty lame to be honest. Don't get me wrong, not labelling Xetic exploiters or bad people, but bringing alts into an alliance to artifically inflate wardec costs...that's weaksauce.
Adhamhnon	Posted - 2005.03.09 04:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Y'anehn Marra Originally by: Krapz Nykon, It's no more unfair than using dual MWD when it was allowed. Still pretty lame to be honest. Don't get me wrong, not labelling Xetic exploiters or bad people, but bringing alts into an alliance to artifically inflate wardec costs...that's weaksauce. Personally I'm against the idea... but by the same measure, declaring on a 4000 member alliance with your 5 member corp, ganking solo travellers in a 0.9 system, and using noob corp alts at every gate into that system so you can hide at a safespot whenever even an even sized force of fighters comes to take you on isn't any better.
Kayosoni	Posted - 2005.03.09 05:02:00 - [10] if a 4000 member alliance is whining about how they can't control a 4 member corp that has declared war on them... well that's pretty pathetic. ----------------------------------- Currently Playing Lineage 2 - Erica Server
fugazii	Posted - 2005.03.09 05:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Adhamhnon Originally by: Y'anehn Marra Originally by: Krapz Nykon, It's no more unfair than using dual MWD when it was allowed. Still pretty lame to be honest. Don't get me wrong, not labelling Xetic exploiters or bad people, but bringing alts into an alliance to artifically inflate wardec costs...that's weaksauce. Personally I'm against the idea... but by the same measure, declaring on a 4000 member alliance with your 5 member corp, ganking solo travellers in a 0.9 system, and using noob corp alts at every gate into that system so you can hide at a safespot whenever even an even sized force of fighters comes to take you on isn't any better. if its small corps your so worried about why not use location agents to find out where they are and avoid those areas by smamming alliance chat. if ppl still get ganked thats thier own fault for being stupid and are probably the same ppl who send hatemail to someone after they get blown up while bein afk in .0 space. if the largest alliance in game needs to make alt corps to make themselves invincible against other ppl its pretty pathetic and shows your true weakness. it all comes down to if your not capable/willing to accept the rules of how alliances work you shouldnt have made/be a part of an alliance in the first place. and tbh you guys do a good job of locking down empire i rly dont c why u need to make yourselves invincible to anyone who doesnt hav a 9 figure wallet, after all this is a fighting game. yes i know your goin to say "well if you want a fight why not come to our space" because 1) as u guys hav said many times its way the **** outta the way 2) youll get blobbed even more 3) u cant refit/repair get new ship ect. your sheer numbers should make up for the fact u hav a few less corps than other alliances. it rly makes u guys look bad when u want to raise costs cuz u cant/unwilling to defend against "5 member corp", while theres all these other smaller alliances defending against other 5 member corps and u dont c them wanting to make alt corps to make it harder for the attackers. your the biggest in numbers and claimed area, start acting like it.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.03.09 05:57:00 - [12] People wardecing Xetic has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that You carry tech2 BPOs in AFK indys through empire. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Seleene	Posted - 2005.03.09 06:49:00 - [13] Edited by: Seleene on 09/03/2005 06:50:43 FA would never do this. SE would never do this. G would never do this. FoE would never do this. Imperium would certianly never do this. Hmmm... interesting pattern there. Why does XETIC want to do this? To 'change the game mechanic'? There are other ways to go about it. Email the devs, post in the Idea Lab & General Discussion, petition when things go wrong, etc... But inflating war costs with dummy corps to "prove a point"? Bah. XETIC is the largest and potentially most powerful alliance in the game. They should be trying to set the example, not proposing half-baked schemes in an attempt to provoke a response out of CCP. If anything, it's just as likely to backfire when CCP says: "Due to the flaws in the war system, we have decided to impose a flat war fee cost of 100 million per week against an alliance. Thank you and happy hunting." Personally, such a solution would suit me just fine but that's not the point. There's just no reason to do this. Small alt corps are lame. They always have been. I know many people in XETIC share this opinion and I hope they stop this silliness (assuming this information is real) before it even gets started. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.03.09 06:52:00 - [14] The solution to your problem is to diband your alliance and then just keep it as an unofficial alliance. Thank you, I'll be here all year. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
CYVOK	Posted - 2005.03.09 06:53:00 - [15] This argument is stupid and forfeit. I will respond, take it as you will, I will not post again on the subject after this. The decision was one that Xetic DID NOT want to make. However it is our hope that by taking this action CCP will give a poor war system some much needed attention. If you have an issue with XeticÆs decision to do this flame CCP not Xetic. Simple fact is that EVERYONE in EvE knows that trying to hunt and kill a 5 member corp when you have 800, 2000, or 5000 members is nothing but a waste of time, all they do is log off an wait on an OOC alt until an easy target pops up. I challenge ANY alliance in this game to prove me wrong. A 5 member corp that declares an official war against a 5000 member alliance are nothing more then cowards and grifers looking for easy kills and easy ISK. If you are a 5 member corp that is truly looking for PvP your going do what Botox has done. Move your corp into the heart of ôenemyö territory and go after every target, combat pilot or carebear. Botox may be small and annoying but at least they have the balls to look for PvP against a PvPer instead of looking for the easiest no glory kills they can. Just remember, if you log in tomorrow and find Xetic with 600+ corps complain to CCP not Xetic. As soon as a war system is coded that heavily penalizes greifers or at least forces them to declare a tough goal for the war, Xetic will recycle all the alts. If you are a 5 member corp looking for easy kills in empire, we are going to make you pay through the nose for the privilege. In closing 1) Yes it is true, Xetic has voted to take this action. 2) If you have a problem with this decision, complain to CCP not Xetic. 3) Real PvPers go after other PvPers, not haulers. 4) Once a new war system is patched in Xetic will remove the alts. 5) I will not post on this topic again. Sincerely -CYVOK- =Xetic Vice President=
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.03.09 07:04:00 - [16] Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 09/03/2005 07:05:05 Don't worry about it CYVOK. Xetic didnt have any respect that could be lost. Could you do some alliance scamming operations next week? Fill escrow with trit labeled battleships, to illustrate that problem. The only reaction you're likley to get from CCP on this is a drastic increase in the fee to maintain your alliance. I look foward to the maitenence fee being 10 times the current number of corps in your alliance, paid weekly. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Pa1nbringr	Posted - 2005.03.09 07:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Krapz Nykon, First off, it's sad that I'm even replying to an alt, but under the circumstances, I'll make an exception. Secondly, if you have an issue w/ Conram or CYVOK, take it to them. Again, just like before, this is a proposal. Third. It's not that XF doesn't fight, or can't win wars. We're not really concerned about the defense of our alliance, we have that well under control. This motion that has been suggested simply is being brought forth to help address the current (poorly planned) game mechanics. It's no more unfair than using dual MWD when it was allowed. If it does go through, then the majority of the voting power in XF wanted it to happen. I don't see what is so difficult to understand why this is being brought up, or discussed. The game has flaws. Every organization uses the current game mechanics to the best of their ability. I'm sure if CCP had an issue with it, they' contact Conram or CYVOK. Why is it there are the vocal minorty who continue to see this as an issue? We could just as easily immediately surrender all wars dec'ed on us, but that would be a "sploit" too by your definition I'm sure.... If the game were perfect, no one would play. Get over it, move along, nothing to see here. still, for a 5 member or so corp to even declare war on the biggest alliance in the game and have the funds to do it, if they got the funds they deserve to declare war on the biggest corp in the game, whether its to gank little solo indys in empire or not ---------------------- Fedaykin Naib > eh this is boring, think im going to go choke one out Pa1nbringr > sick Fedaykin Naib > lol
Jonkai	Posted - 2005.03.09 07:15:00 - [18] Too long have Alliances been safe in Empire to keep mining and trading away. You should protect all your members.
Lorth	Posted - 2005.03.09 07:16:00 - [19] Wow to think that someone would stoop so low as to accutally do this is beyond me. I'm sorry but if an allience of 5000+ people can t effectivily defend and immobilize a force fo 5 then something is wrong. Even with said corp loging off and using alts, it should be dreadfully easy for any group to stop all offensive efforts of these people. Resorting to questionable game mechanics in order to do it is simply below anything I thought you were capable of. In fact I'm so asamed I have decided to take my alt out of Xetic, in order to allieviate him of the stench of cowardness that will be inflicted apon him.
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.03.09 07:19:00 - [20] Congrats XETIC you have an early and large lead in the "LAMEST ALLIANCE OF THE YEAR" award for this year. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
Voltron	Posted - 2005.03.09 07:21:00 - [21] This is the first I've heard about it and it irks me more than the fact that ppl have been hauling T2 BPO's in haulers during a war........no wait 7 wars.......no wait 5 wars now, christ i dont know how many there are, all i know is i love seein all the pretty flashing colors Volt
MAXSuicide	Posted - 2005.03.09 07:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Anikan Edited by: Anikan on 09/03/2005 02:39:34 2nd post and IBTL - This is the biggest flame bait I have seen in a while :D Enjoy it /me stares at Max lol thats not a very nice accussation to make. My vids and random stuff
Beringe	Posted - 2005.03.09 08:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Seleene Why does XETIC want to do this? To 'change the game mechanic'? There are other ways to go about it. Email the devs, post in the Idea Lab & General Discussion, petition when things go wrong, etc... But inflating war costs with dummy corps to "prove a point"? Bah. Speaking as a devil's advocate (geeze, this really sounds bad as my corporation is a trial XETIC member, doesn't it?), I'd challenge your question with this question: Why wouldn't they? You yourself have posted about war declarations against alliances being broken. The devs have said they would fix it, but it doesn't really solve the entire problem. It's a bit like the jump in point camping. It doesn't make sense not to do it. That said, I would disagree with the artificial expansion of XETIC. But we are a democratic federation, and my corporation are only trial members. ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead." "No, it's none of your business."
JaiMaster	Posted - 2005.03.09 08:19:00 - [24] The 4 man "coward" corp wars the 5000 member alliance looking for "cheap" kills, so the (obviously quite brave, honorable PVPers they are... ) XETIC federation in its infinite wisdom creates alts to make wars cost more... If all 5000 members post drivel like that, im opening a hardware store. The demand for shovels must be IMMENSE... ------- Skill points. ISK. Ships, rare equipment. Its all just a means to an end... Your end.
Tbone	Posted - 2005.03.09 08:21:00 - [25] I may be m0o and ****, but i respect CYVOK. He alone has my utmost respect of anyone in game and i dont believe he would ever allow this. Plus we just got out of war with them and had no probs so, you FA alts need to STFU. ----------------------------------------------- Unholy Killboard
Seleene	Posted - 2005.03.09 08:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Beringe Originally by: Seleene Why does XETIC want to do this? To 'change the game mechanic'? There are other ways to go about it. Email the devs, post in the Idea Lab & General Discussion, petition when things go wrong, etc... But inflating war costs with dummy corps to "prove a point"? Bah. Speaking as a devil's advocate (geeze, this really sounds bad as my corporation is a trial XETIC member, doesn't it?), I'd challenge your question with this question: Why wouldn't they? You yourself have posted about war declarations against alliances being broken. The devs have said they would fix it, but it doesn't really solve the entire problem. First of all, I'm very surprised that this initiative would have Cyvok's support. But, moving on... Why wouldn't or shouldn't they do this, you ask? For one thing, I'd wager that a large majority of their membership doesn't want this. I've talked to a lot of people in XETIC over the past few weeks since FoE declared on them. The vast majority love all the PvP. I know for a fact that a few weeks ago, XETIC was losing people left and right due to boredom. These new wars gave a lot of people in XETIC a reason to do something they felt was productive: defend their comrades! I've made no secret of the fact to anyone that asks that I like XETIC. Everyone has always treated them as the underdogs, never given them enough credit, etc... Granted, XETIC has it's share of idiots, but for the most part they are good people, especially the CLS guys. I understand the logical reasons that the XETIC leadership came up with this action for, but I don't think they realize the in game political ramifications. "We don't care. The game mechanic needs to get fixed." Fine. In the meantime, you are going to lose members (and corps) left and right because there is no middle ground on this issue. The flames have barely even begun and, I suspect, a lot of them are going to come from XETIC's own members. To many, it looks like a cowardly tactic and it makes the alliance look weak. The XETIC leadership may have the thick skin to weather the criticism that is coming, but a lot of others don't or won't even care to try. What does this action say to those XETIC pilots who have been willingly (and happily) throwing themselves against FoE, Supremacy and the rest for the past few weeks? What are they going to do now? Mine? Contrary to popular belief, and much to the chagrin of their enemies, there are a hell of a lot of pilots in XETIC would don't mind one bit that half of EVE seems to have turned red. However, I understand that this action is not being taken against legitimate foes such as another alliance or a corp the size and power of Supremacy. It's aimed at little alt corps and such. However, how much damage are these little corps actually doing to warrant such a response from the largest alliance in the game? The little five man alt corps, while annoying and pathetic, are hardly a legitimate reason to do this and I doubt XETIC's true enemies will chose to believe that anyway. For the reasons I've laid out here, I think it's a bad move on XETIC's part. This is not the best way to handle the issue and XETIC's pride and public image is going to suffer near-irreparable harm if it happens. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Tholarim	Posted - 2005.03.09 08:48:00 - [27] This must be the weakest **** i've read in a while. And please don't come with that we're forcing ccp to fix it bull. We all know that isn't your real motive. Xetic always seems to do things that just seem really really carebearish to me
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 08:49:00 - [28] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 09/03/2005 08:49:36 Devil's Advocate speaking here too........ Originally by: JaiMaster The 4 man "coward" corp wars the 5000 member alliance looking for "cheap" kills, so the (obviously quite brave, honorable PVPers they are... ) XETIC federation in its infinite wisdom creates alts to make wars cost more... If all 5000 members post drivel like that, im opening a hardware store. The demand for shovels must be IMMENSE... Every member of S.A.S has lo-slots full of WCS, use gankageddons at 60km+, have an alt at every gate leading into Manarq, and safespot/logout whenever a group of more than 4 XF warp to a gate they are camping. That's cowardly tactics of an alt corp. created specifically for the war. If characters can create a corp. specifically to declare war on another, why is it so wrong that XETIC create alt. corps to make them pay for their cowardice? S.A.S are the lamest gankers since Killer Clowns. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Hastrabull	Posted - 2005.03.09 08:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 09/03/2005 08:49:36 Devil's Advocate speaking here too........ Originally by: JaiMaster The 4 man "coward" corp wars the 5000 member alliance looking for "cheap" kills, so the (obviously quite brave, honorable PVPers they are... ) XETIC federation in its infinite wisdom creates alts to make wars cost more... If all 5000 members post drivel like that, im opening a hardware store. The demand for shovels must be IMMENSE... Every member of S.A.S has lo-slots full of WCS, use gankageddons at 60km+, have an alt at every gate leading into Manarq, and safespot/logout whenever a group of more than 4 XF warp to a gate they are camping. That's cowardly tactics of an alt corp. created specifically for the war. If characters can create a corp. specifically to declare war on another, why is it so wrong that XETIC create alt. corps to make them pay for their cowardice? S.A.S are the lamest gankers since Killer Clowns. Its not lame, its effective. From your point of view its lame, cos u lost ships. And you think its lame, cos u cant find any tactic that will counter this. This is lame. They are effective. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 08:58:00 - [30] My biggest problem with this whole matter is that XF Council refuse to counter the BIGGEST problem with XF: Most of their members are clueless idiots. Look at the number of tech 2 BPO's lost to members transporting them through Empire. Those morons didn't even have the wit or intelligence to use alts to transport them. XF Council need to start recognising a few things: 1. XF get attacked because they are the biggest. 2. XF get attacked because they are the most inexperienced. This adds up to one thing: Members of the corps. at war with use have risen to the top ten killers in evekills.com simply because it is so easy to gank and out maneuvre XF fleets. I'm not saying all XF are n00bs but the good pvp'ers are so outnumbered by carebears that we're working our asses off just to stay in one place. So how about the Council stop ***** around with lame tactics like this and start using their power as leaders of the largest collective in Eve to convince the dev's with open discussion and honest reasoning. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!**
Seleene	Posted - 2005.03.09 08:59:00 - [31] I like your second reply better than your first one, Josh. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Hastrabull	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:02:00 - [32] Edited by: Hastrabull on 09/03/2005 09:05:38 Same here :) Joshua, sorry to say that, but Xetic are to big. This is what we are using. And using it effectively. You just can't and will not counter us cause you cant find us And even if you will we will disappear and show up 10 systems away :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:02:00 - [33] Originally by: Seleene I like your second reply better than your first one, Josh. Well, my first reply was just comparing the fact alt corps. are used to offensively inflict financial damage but cannot be used to defensively inflict financial damage..... It didn't come out as well as I hoped LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Hastrabull Originally by: Joshua Calvert Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 09/03/2005 08:49:36 Devil's Advocate speaking here too........ Originally by: JaiMaster The 4 man "coward" corp wars the 5000 member alliance looking for "cheap" kills, so the (obviously quite brave, honorable PVPers they are... ) XETIC federation in its infinite wisdom creates alts to make wars cost more... If all 5000 members post drivel like that, im opening a hardware store. The demand for shovels must be IMMENSE... Every member of S.A.S has lo-slots full of WCS, use gankageddons at 60km+, have an alt at every gate leading into Manarq, and safespot/logout whenever a group of more than 4 XF warp to a gate they are camping. That's cowardly tactics of an alt corp. created specifically for the war. If characters can create a corp. specifically to declare war on another, why is it so wrong that XETIC create alt. corps to make them pay for their cowardice? S.A.S are the lamest gankers since Killer Clowns. Its not lame, its effective. From your point of view its lame, cos u lost ships. And you think its lame, cos u cant find any tactic that will counter this. This is lame. They are effective. Still speaking as a devils advocate here......... Isn't XF boosting their member corp. count a lame but effective tactic also? It's simply pvp on a different field. If SAS want to pretend this is CounterStrike, then thats upto them. We'll simply fight just as dirty and try to defeat them financially. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Hastrabull	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:08:00 - [35] Edited by: Hastrabull on 09/03/2005 09:11:38 Edited by: Hastrabull on 09/03/2005 09:10:40 Originally by: Joshua Calvert Still speaking as a devils advocate here......... Isn't XF boosting their member corp. count a lame but effective tactic also? It's simply pvp on a different field. If SAS want to pretend this is CounterStrike, then thats upto them. We'll simply fight just as dirty and try to defeat them financially. So you say camping gate with ships equiped to gank and run if neccesary is dirty? Using bug in the game is surely dirty. Joshua, your (xetic) way of thinking is completely wrong. This is completely NOT honorable and smart. Its the easiest way to defeat enemy that you cant defeat with your guns. This is lame and pathetic. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:17:00 - [36] Originally by: Hastrabull Edited by: Hastrabull on 09/03/2005 09:11:38 Edited by: Hastrabull on 09/03/2005 09:10:40 Originally by: Joshua Calvert Still speaking as a devils advocate here......... Isn't XF boosting their member corp. count a lame but effective tactic also? It's simply pvp on a different field. If SAS want to pretend this is CounterStrike, then thats upto them. We'll simply fight just as dirty and try to defeat them financially. So you say camping gate with ships equiped to gank and run if neccesary is dirty? Using bug in the game is surely dirty. Joshua, your (xetic) way of thinking is completely wrong. This is completely NOT honorable and smart. Its the easiest way to defeat enemy that you cant defeat with your guns. This is lame and pathetic. How is it a bug in the game? A bug is the game code producing unwanted effects. The alliance war system clearly does not have a problem because the addition of corp. members behaves the way it should. It increases costs. Anyway, I do agree it is lame but there are so many more lame things in this game to worry about like Arma's using 8 WCS and Megaulses. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Prometheus Wrong	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:19:00 - [37] Edited by: Prometheus Wrong on 09/03/2005 10:03:44 Edited for change of mind: Took my own advice and thought about it...Yeah, this is lame and doesn't solve anything. To our critics: give those of us who think this is dumb and lame to kick our leaders in their asses. People being killed in empire with BPOs deserve to be killed, be it by legitimate enemies or greifers. This tactic should be below us.
fugazii	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Hastrabull Joshua, your (xetic) way of thinking is completely wrong. just wait a week, he'll change corp along w/his way of thinking. hahahah
Tholarim	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:20:00 - [39] Edited by: Tholarim on 09/03/2005 09:22:15 Originally by: Joshua Calvert It's simply pvp on a different field. Can't believe any1 could make himself believe that josh. Prometheus: You're making it sound like SAS exploit while they don't. CCP can't remove the oppurtunity for smaller corps to declare war on big alliances just because these alliances don't like the way that small corp fights. That's plain stupid.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:25:00 - [40] Originally by: Tholarim Edited by: Tholarim on 09/03/2005 09:22:15 Originally by: Joshua Calvert It's simply pvp on a different field. Can't believe any1 could make himself believe that josh. Prometheus: You're making it sound like SAS exploit while they don't. CCP can't remove the oppurtunity for smaller corps to declare war on big alliances just because these alliances don't like the way that small corp fights. That's plain stupid. It is fighting alt. corps with alt corps. Isn't that balanced? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
darth solo	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:26:00 - [41] Originally by: Krapz It's no more unfair than using dual MWD when it was allowed. a corp declaring war on ur massive alliance is unfair?.. huh?.... its a game, try and have fun, its not about it being 100% risk free, its meant to get yer blood pumping. d solo.
Hastrabull	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Anyway, I do agree it is lame but there are so many more lame things in this game to worry about like Arma's using 8 WCS and Megaulses. This is some sort of tactics, as we can see effective tactics. It might be lame in 0.0 where u have map as your friend but in empire with thousands of people passing by its very useful tactic. There are also ways to counter it. Artificialy increasing numbers in alliance to make war costs higher and eliminating your enemies this way is not the way it should be. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:28:00 - [43] Quote: Every member of S.A.S has lo-slots full of WCS, use gankageddons at 60km+, have an alt at every gate leading into Manarq, and safespot/logout whenever a group of more than 4 XF warp to a gate they are camping. That's cowardly tactics of an alt corp. created specifically for the war. If characters can create a corp. specifically to declare war on another, why is it so wrong that XETIC create alt. corps to make them pay for their cowardice? S.A.S are the lamest gankers since Killer Clowns. Its not lame, its effective. From your point of view its lame, cos u lost ships. And you think its lame, cos u cant find any tactic that will counter this. This is lame. They are effective. 1. Its totally legal. The GM stated that corps put bootcamps and industrial sister corps all over eve. I bet I can find these XX industry, XX boot in many alliances. 2. If you look at the number of member per corp today... FA 83 per corp XETIC 77 per corp SE 70 per corp IMP 55 per corp PA 55 per corp FOE 40 per corp Kieretsu 30 per corp You can see that we are pretty well up top anyhow. 3. Funny how a ship full of warp core slabs pick of indies is somehow cool when its against XETIC. Funny how people want to dictate our policy if we decide to make it more expensive for them. Personally, I don't support this and I doubt it will be employed. I bet that even if it was employed xetic would have a higher member per corp figure then most of those bitter enemies crying in here. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Tholarim	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:29:00 - [44] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Tholarim Edited by: Tholarim on 09/03/2005 09:22:15 Originally by: Joshua Calvert It's simply pvp on a different field. Can't believe any1 could make himself believe that josh. Prometheus: You're making it sound like SAS exploit while they don't. CCP can't remove the oppurtunity for smaller corps to declare war on big alliances just because these alliances don't like the way that small corp fights. That's plain stupid. It is fighting alt. corps with alt corps. Isn't that balanced? Hey you know my opinion on it. Thing is, you guys making it sound like you're all honourable about it is just no true. All you guys want is to force other people to play the game how you want it. You find out their main corp and war dec em, over and over and over. That's how you fix it. Not like this. It's a lame way to avoid losing tech2 bpo's...
darth solo	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:31:00 - [45] oh, and just for the record, zincol(SAS) is an old time pvper, who will be more than glad to fight u xetic guys 1v1 or in fairer numbers, ganking is part of the game as Xetic well know(massive fleets for 2 ppl kinda thing)... put yer heads together and come up with some dort of defence plan for ur alliance members, or do u need more ppl to do that with... ill say again, like i said before... if u find it impossible to defend ur members and must resort to these tactics that pretty much all of EVE hate, even ur own members, id disband the alliance, its noooooo working. d solo.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Tholarim Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Tholarim Edited by: Tholarim on 09/03/2005 09:22:15 Originally by: Joshua Calvert It's simply pvp on a different field. Can't believe any1 could make himself believe that josh. Prometheus: You're making it sound like SAS exploit while they don't. CCP can't remove the oppurtunity for smaller corps to declare war on big alliances just because these alliances don't like the way that small corp fights. That's plain stupid. It is fighting alt. corps with alt corps. Isn't that balanced? Hey you know my opinion on it. Thing is, you guys making it sound like you're all honourable about it is just no true. All you guys want is to force other people to play the game how you want it. You find out their main corp and war dec em, over and over and over. That's how you fix it. Not like this. It's a lame way to avoid losing tech2 bpo's... Hey, I think the method used (creation of alt corps to boost corp. count) is wrong. I'm annoyed that XF council did it. However, the reasoning behind it is very much a valid one. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:33:00 - [47] Edited by: Primer Xenius on 09/03/2005 09:34:15 Quote: Hey you know my opinion on it. Thing is, you guys making it sound like you're all honourable about it is just no true. All you guys want is to force other people to play the game how you want it. You find out their main corp and war dec em, over and over and over. That's how you fix it. Not like this. It's a lame way to avoid losing tech2 bpo's... Wink The logic... Its lame for an alliance to protect its people yet its perfectly fine to attack alliances via alt corps. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Tholarim	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Primer Xenius Edited by: Primer Xenius on 09/03/2005 09:34:15 Quote: Hey you know my opinion on it. Thing is, you guys making it sound like you're all honourable about it is just no true. All you guys want is to force other people to play the game how you want it. You find out their main corp and war dec em, over and over and over. That's how you fix it. Not like this. It's a lame way to avoid losing tech2 bpo's... Wink The logic... Its lame for an alliance to protect its people yet its perfectly fine to attack alliances via alt corps. Where did i say it was lame to protect your people? Read, then think, then answer. I said the method and reasoning behind it are lame. If you protected your members by actually actively hunting down their mains no matter how often they switch corps, that would be alot more honourable.
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:41:00 - [49] Quote: I said the method and reasoning behind it are lame. If you protected your members by actually actively hunting down their mains no matter how often they switch corps, that would be alot more honourable. Don't lecture me on honorable please. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Harridan's Hauling	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:46:00 - [50] Originally by: darth solo oh, and just for the record, zincol(SAS) is an old time pvper, who will be more than glad to fight u xetic guys 1v1 or in fairer numbers, ganking is part of the game as Xetic well know(massive fleets for 2 ppl kinda thing)... put yer heads together and come up with some dort of defence plan for ur alliance members, or do u need more ppl to do that with... ill say again, like i said before... if u find it impossible to defend ur members and must resort to these tactics that pretty much all of EVE hate, even ur own members, id disband the alliance, its noooooo working. d solo. The issues is that when any force which 'may' cause S.A.S issues appears in a surrounding system, they move to a safe spot. If scan probes appear, well they log. Then when everyone goes, they log back in. This is not honorable and does not make for good game play. The best descriptor I can come up with right now is lame. Harri
Shittake	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:46:00 - [51] I think the better approach for Xetic and other alliances that have a problem with the war declaration issues to just disband their formal alliance. There no rule that says you MUST use the formal alliance system, it makes some things simpler, mucks up other things. If it doesn't work the way you want it to, then just don't use it. Sure it'll be a pain to get everyone to set standings and all the other things you need to do to revert back to an informal alliance. BUT it will send a message to CCP that the biggest formal alliance in the game disbanded because they were slow to address and fix the problem. So either disband until CCP gets it fixed OR just deal with it. Inflating the war costs by creating alt corps and joining them to the alliance is a Public Relations nightmare in my opinion. Perhaps you should you reconsider.
darth solo	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:47:00 - [52] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 09/03/2005 08:49:36 Devil's Advocate speaking here too........ Originally by: JaiMaster The 4 man "coward" corp wars the 5000 member alliance looking for "cheap" kills, so the (obviously quite brave, honorable PVPers they are... ) XETIC federation in its infinite wisdom creates alts to make wars cost more... If all 5000 members post drivel like that, im opening a hardware store. The demand for shovels must be IMMENSE... Every member of S.A.S has lo-slots full of WCS, use gankageddons at 60km+, have an alt at every gate leading into Manarq, and safespot/logout whenever a group of more than 4 XF warp to a gate they are camping. That's cowardly tactics of an alt corp. created specifically for the war. If characters can create a corp. specifically to declare war on another, why is it so wrong that XETIC create alt. corps to make them pay for their cowardice? S.A.S are the lamest gankers since Killer Clowns. thats TOTAL bull, i pass SAS members camping Empire gates all the time... they are sitting on them, or close to them the times iv seen... dont try to justify ur lame tacitics with making SAS look bad... if they are using gankageddons at 60k, urmmm use a cloaked alts ganged?... noways u see some1 sneaking up to u cloaked on the scanner in yulai.. adapt... just because they dont sit there waiting for ur gank fleets to gank them, doesnt make them lame. wOOt. d solo.
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:48:00 - [53] Quote: I think the better approach for Xetic and other alliances that have a problem with the war declaration issues to just disband their formal alliance. There no rule that says you MUST use the formal alliance system, it makes some things simpler, mucks up other things. If it doesn't work the way you want it to, then just don't use it. However about we let alliance play their game how they want to. Again, I doubt this policy will be done much and still believe our member to corp ratio will be a lot high then FOE for example. The arguments here are mute. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Tholarim	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:50:00 - [54] Originally by: Primer Xenius Quote: I said the method and reasoning behind it are lame. If you protected your members by actually actively hunting down their mains no matter how often they switch corps, that would be alot more honourable. Don't lecture me on honorable please. here we go again, primer drags in the past. But we're discussing your actions now primer, not mine. I'm not lecturing, i'm explaining what i think about it. You're the one going overly defensive and completely trying to derail this topic again. Primer could you bring up the post about the CA betrayal for the 100th time please....
CKOZUK	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:53:00 - [55] Originally by: Primer Xenius Edited by: Primer Xenius on 09/03/2005 09:34:15 Quote: Hey you know my opinion on it. Thing is, you guys making it sound like you're all honourable about it is just no true. All you guys want is to force other people to play the game how you want it. You find out their main corp and war dec em, over and over and over. That's how you fix it. Not like this. It's a lame way to avoid losing tech2 bpo's... Wink The logic... Its lame for an alliance to protect its people yet its perfectly fine to attack alliances via alt corps. S.A.S isn't an alt corp they've been around for ages ask Max he was in the corp. They have fought many corps including Dreamscape. So if your calling it an alt corp in the vain hope that the un informed think they are lame to boost your PR then think again.
CKOZUK	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:54:00 - [56] Originally by: Harridan's Hauling Originally by: darth solo oh, and just for the record, zincol(SAS) is an old time pvper, who will be more than glad to fight u xetic guys 1v1 or in fairer numbers, ganking is part of the game as Xetic well know(massive fleets for 2 ppl kinda thing)... put yer heads together and come up with some dort of defence plan for ur alliance members, or do u need more ppl to do that with... ill say again, like i said before... if u find it impossible to defend ur members and must resort to these tactics that pretty much all of EVE hate, even ur own members, id disband the alliance, its noooooo working. d solo. The issues is that when any force which 'may' cause S.A.S issues appears in a surrounding system, they move to a safe spot. Xetic did this in 0.0 for a fair few weeks when CA attacked do you think thats lame to? This post is my personal opinion and not one of my corp.
Rysse Andrama	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:55:00 - [57] TBH its interesting to see that the people on this forum calling Xetic lame are probably the biggest griefers and lame smacktards in the game. You lot use logon tactics and alts corps for this and that and when someone else does basically something similar you start smacking again calling other people lame. The only reason you war dec someone like Xetic with your alt corps is so you can gank indys flying around empire and all in the name of PVP???? yeah right. lame lame lame
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:56:00 - [58] Quote: here we go again, primer drags in the past. But we're discussing your actions now primer, not mine. I'm not lecturing, i'm explaining what i think about it. You're the one going overly defensive and completely trying to derail this topic again. Primer could you bring up the post about the CA betrayal for the 100th time please....Rolling Eyes Not dragging up anything about CA. So stop putting word in my mouth. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Hastrabull	Posted - 2005.03.09 09:58:00 - [59] Edited by: Hastrabull on 09/03/2005 10:03:49 Originally by: Rysse Andrama TBH its interesting to see that the people on this forum calling Xetic lame are probably the biggest griefers and lame smacktards in the game. You lot use logon tactics and alts corps for this and that and when someone else does basically something similar you start smacking again calling other people lame. The only reason you war dec someone like Xetic with your alt corps is so you can gank indys flying around empire and all in the name of PVP???? yeah right. lame lame lame And you are who? I'm at work, dont have access to the game, but you look like an alt for me. Isnt that lame? I repeat. Xetics, you are pathetic in your actions and we WILL bring you down on your knees. Decision you have made, make you look stupid, unhonorable and lame. It will cause problems inside your alliance (some people in xetic know that what you have done is not right). You will repeat the same fate as CA. To much politics. For me... Happy empire ganking of funny Xetics ahead of me no more posts from my side. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
CORE TRADER	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:01:00 - [60] Quote: FA 83 per corp XETIC 77 per corp SE 70 per corp IMP 55 per corp PA 55 per corp FOE 40 per corp Kieretsu 30 per corp OWNED! Before you people argue next time, do some research.
CKOZUK	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:03:00 - [61] Originally by: CORE TRADER Quote: FA 83 per corp XETIC 77 per corp SE 70 per corp IMP 55 per corp PA 55 per corp FOE 40 per corp Kieretsu 30 per corp OWNED! Before you people argue next time, do some research. I'm having trouble figuring out how that owns people?!?!?
AvanCade	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:06:00 - [62] Originally by: Nyk0n Good evening all Just brought to my attention by a frend in XETIC this is there latest brainchild...... On the topic of increaseing XETIC's numbers with alt corps... Quote: This was already discussed earlier and turned down. I please the council to discuss it again and eventually vote on it. As the war against S.A.S. has shown, some ppl tend to declare war on the largest alliance in game just due to the fact that we have the most "targets" for them to shoot. Declaring war on their main corp is also ineffective - they simply switch charachters if spotted. I think this behaviour combined with a press release explaining our intentions would for ce CCP to change the alliance war system. From an ccp official we know that increasing the alliance by alt corps is not an exploit. So we are allowed to do it. To prevent bad reactions, we act offensively: We post our intentions. The griefers will complain for sure (what do you expect ?), the good players will understand. Brought forth by: XF President Yes im a alt (and a fa alt at that) but belive it or not this info IS accurate. I invite the XF President to say otherwise Thats whut deep space is for, free warfare for all !
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:06:00 - [63] Originally by: darth solo Originally by: Joshua Calvert Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 09/03/2005 08:49:36 Devil's Advocate speaking here too........ Originally by: JaiMaster The 4 man "coward" corp wars the 5000 member alliance looking for "cheap" kills, so the (obviously quite brave, honorable PVPers they are... ) XETIC federation in its infinite wisdom creates alts to make wars cost more... If all 5000 members post drivel like that, im opening a hardware store. The demand for shovels must be IMMENSE... Every member of S.A.S has lo-slots full of WCS, use gankageddons at 60km+, have an alt at every gate leading into Manarq, and safespot/logout whenever a group of more than 4 XF warp to a gate they are camping. That's cowardly tactics of an alt corp. created specifically for the war. If characters can create a corp. specifically to declare war on another, why is it so wrong that XETIC create alt. corps to make them pay for their cowardice? S.A.S are the lamest gankers since Killer Clowns. thats TOTAL bull, i pass SAS members camping Empire gates all the time... they are sitting on them, or close to them the times iv seen... dont try to justify ur lame tacitics with making SAS look bad... if they are using gankageddons at 60k, urmmm use a cloaked alts ganged?... noways u see some1 sneaking up to u cloaked on the scanner in yulai.. adapt... just because they dont sit there waiting for ur gank fleets to gank them, doesnt make them lame. wOOt. d solo. Let me teach you something. They only ever sit on gates in inty's. If you see them at a gate in a BS it's because they're fleeing from XF. They switch around positions arond the gates in Manarq every 10-15 minutes to prevent slow-arse cloaking ships getting a slingshot position on them. They see lots of XF in local? They safespot. They see probes? They log. They can see us coming from all directions due to alts - Slim Pickin's and MegaJay to name their 2 favourites. Their love of running away from any force makes it incredibly difficult to kill them. The tactic SAS is using abuses the power of megapulses, the virtual invincibility of 8 WCS, and the ridiculous state of probes being visible on the scanner. Even if we DO catch them, the methods involve using a lot of ships. So we just get accused of being gankers and any hardwork actually getting a kill is lost. That means SAS never get any hassle from pvp'ers. They're just way too lame and we prefer to fight people like FoE who have the balls to take it to a bigger force (most times). If people want to pretend they re l33t pvp'ers because of their number of kills, fine. Most of XF know SAS's kills are all ganks and never from fighting equal numbers. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:08:00 - [64] SAS are def not alts. I known them for well over a year now. They pretty good at shootin people as well. Trying to tell people they are alts is even more lame. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:08:00 - [65] Originally by: CKOZUK Originally by: Primer Xenius Edited by: Primer Xenius on 09/03/2005 09:34:15 Quote: Hey you know my opinion on it. Thing is, you guys making it sound like you're all honourable about it is just no true. All you guys want is to force other people to play the game how you want it. You find out their main corp and war dec em, over and over and over. That's how you fix it. Not like this. It's a lame way to avoid losing tech2 bpo's... Wink The logic... Its lame for an alliance to protect its people yet its perfectly fine to attack alliances via alt corps. S.A.S isn't an alt corp they've been around for ages ask Max he was in the corp. They have fought many corps including Dreamscape. So if your calling it an alt corp in the vain hope that the un informed think they are lame to boost your PR then think again. Look at when war was declared. Contrast this with the length of time members have been in SAS. Bingo? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:09:00 - [66] We're saying they're an alt corp., Darken. At least, I am. Which is why a lot of XF think it's equally fair to use alt corps. in the way that created this while thread...... LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Rysse Andrama	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:10:00 - [67] Originally by: Hastrabull Edited by: Hastrabull on 09/03/2005 10:03:49 Originally by: Rysse Andrama TBH its interesting to see that the people on this forum calling Xetic lame are probably the biggest griefers and lame smacktards in the game. You lot use logon tactics and alts corps for this and that and when someone else does basically something similar you start smacking again calling other people lame. The only reason you war dec someone like Xetic with your alt corps is so you can gank indys flying around empire and all in the name of PVP???? yeah right. lame lame lame And you are who? I'm at work, dont have access to the game, but you look like an alt for me. Isnt that lame? I repeat. Xetics, you are pathetic in your actions and we WILL bring you down on your knees. Decision you have made, make you look stupid, unhonorable and lame. It will cause problems inside your alliance (some people in xetic know that what you have done is not right). You will repeat the same fate as CA. To much politics. For me... Happy empire ganking of funny Xetics ahead of me no more posts from my side. I thought these were public forums, and my opionin in the eyes of ccp is as valid as yours seeing we both pay the same monthly fee.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:14:00 - [68] Originally by: Rysse Andrama Originally by: Hastrabull Edited by: Hastrabull on 09/03/2005 10:03:49 Originally by: Rysse Andrama TBH its interesting to see that the people on this forum calling Xetic lame are probably the biggest griefers and lame smacktards in the game. You lot use logon tactics and alts corps for this and that and when someone else does basically something similar you start smacking again calling other people lame. The only reason you war dec someone like Xetic with your alt corps is so you can gank indys flying around empire and all in the name of PVP???? yeah right. lame lame lame And you are who? I'm at work, dont have access to the game, but you look like an alt for me. Isnt that lame? I repeat. Xetics, you are pathetic in your actions and we WILL bring you down on your knees. Decision you have made, make you look stupid, unhonorable and lame. It will cause problems inside your alliance (some people in xetic know that what you have done is not right). You will repeat the same fate as CA. To much politics. For me... Happy empire ganking of funny Xetics ahead of me no more posts from my side. I thought these were public forums, and my opionin in the eyes of ccp is as valid as yours seeing we both pay the same monthly fee. Unless one of you is from the US and the other is from Europe LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Lord Drax	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:20:00 - [69] Just cos a corp that attack is small doesnt mean they are all alts y'know. I know plenty of corps with memberships under 10, does this mean they are all alts? If so only about 5000 people play eve and the other 5000 online at anyone time are alts. I dont think so. -----------------------------------------
Rysse Andrama	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:29:00 - [70] Bottom line is and EVERYONE HEAR KNOW'S IT, it's greifer tactics and lame. It's done for soft large volume targets and no other reason. What makes me really laugh is the people shooting at the soft targets actually think they are great at PVP. Thats the biggest joke tbh.
Prometheus Wrong	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:31:00 - [71] Edited by: Prometheus Wrong on 09/03/2005 10:52:01 Edited for atrocious spelling and increased clarity Originally by: Tholarim Prometheus: You're making it sound like SAS exploit while they don't. CCP can't remove the oppurtunity for smaller corps to declare war on big alliances just because these alliances don't like the way that small corp fights. That's plain stupid. Yeah, you're right, Tholarim. I've largely changed my mind regarding the legitimacy and impact such a move by XF will have. I NEVER thought nor inteded to give the impression I didn't think it was lame. To a large degree I'm now of the mind that it won't solve much of anything. We're the biggest, and are largely "care bears:" we should expect to have griefer war decs made. While no one should have to deal with the cheap and cowardly tactics griefers employ against our n00bs and mission runners, they cannot possibly be making an impact so large as to warrant this sort of reaction. Any member of XETIC should know damned well that such a distinction carries with it the liability of looking like a nice, juicy target. If you can't figure out that afk traveling through a war zone is f00king STUPID, evolution is going to take its course: maybe your next clone will be smarter. XF coddles its idiots too much. There are plenty of methods that can be used to avoid being victimized by griefer corps: inflating our alliance with alts to drive up costs will mostly help to preserve people XETIC is better off without.
Market Gopher	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:35:00 - [72] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Let me teach you something. They only ever sit on gates in inty's. If you see them at a gate in a BS it's because they're fleeing from XF. They switch around positions arond the gates in Manarq every 10-15 minutes to prevent slow-arse cloaking ships getting a slingshot position on them. They see lots of XF in local? They safespot. They see probes? They log. They can see us coming from all directions due to alts - Slim Pickin's and MegaJay to name their 2 favourites. Their love of running away from any force makes it incredibly difficult to kill them. The tactic SAS is using abuses the power of megapulses, the virtual invincibility of 8 WCS, and the ridiculous state of probes being visible on the scanner. Even if we DO catch them, the methods involve using a lot of ships. So we just get accused of being gankers and any hardwork actually getting a kill is lost. That means SAS never get any hassle from pvp'ers. They're just way too lame and we prefer to fight people like FoE who have the balls to take it to a bigger force (most times). If people want to pretend they re l33t pvp'ers because of their number of kills, fine. Most of XF know SAS's kills are all ganks and never from fighting equal numbers. Yeah, its abit hard when your opponent isn't a npc from an agent mission that sits still and lets you kill him, but actually moves around and apparently outmanoeuvres you. But then again, pvp experience isn't gained from npc missions.
Seleene	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:41:00 - [73] I can't decide which is stranger: a.) That one small corp like SAS is causing XETIC so much of a headache. b.) That XETIC is letting it bother them this much. I stand by my earlier statement - If XETIC does this, they are going to lose more members / corps out of boredom and embarrassment than if they just let things go as they are. Something needs to be done, yes, but this is not the way. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Harridan's Hauling	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:42:00 - [74] Originally by: CKOZUK Originally by: Harridan's Hauling Originally by: darth solo oh, and just for the record, zincol(SAS) is an old time pvper, who will be more than glad to fight u xetic guys 1v1 or in fairer numbers, ganking is part of the game as Xetic well know(massive fleets for 2 ppl kinda thing)... put yer heads together and come up with some dort of defence plan for ur alliance members, or do u need more ppl to do that with... ill say again, like i said before... if u find it impossible to defend ur members and must resort to these tactics that pretty much all of EVE hate, even ur own members, id disband the alliance, its noooooo working. d solo. The issues is that when any force which 'may' cause S.A.S issues appears in a surrounding system, they move to a safe spot. Xetic did this in 0.0 for a fair few weeks when CA attacked do you think thats lame to? This post is my personal opinion and not one of my corp. If you are out-numbered and you want to safe spot thats fine with me. If you log when I deploy my probes then, yeah thats lame IMHO. So if your saying a Xetic fleet logged when you guys deployed scan probes, yeah thats not on, but if your saying Xetic went to a safety, thats fine, thats why scan probes were added to the game. Logging off when probes are deployed is very very poor. Exceptable reasons for logging of are as follows. 1) your house is on fire 2) Wife wants sex 3) Beer 4) Beer Harri
Seleene	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:45:00 - [75] Edited by: Seleene on 09/03/2005 10:45:53 Originally by: Harridan's Hauling Logging off when probes are deployed is very very poor. Exceptable reasons for logging of are as follows. 1) your house is on fire 2) Wife wants sex 3) Beer 4) Beer 5) Your son spills Sprite on your printer then throws the empty can at you for attention. This could be a thread all it's own. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:47:00 - [76] Originally by: Market Gopher Originally by: Joshua Calvert Let me teach you something. They only ever sit on gates in inty's. If you see them at a gate in a BS it's because they're fleeing from XF. They switch around positions arond the gates in Manarq every 10-15 minutes to prevent slow-arse cloaking ships getting a slingshot position on them. They see lots of XF in local? They safespot. They see probes? They log. They can see us coming from all directions due to alts - Slim Pickin's and MegaJay to name their 2 favourites. Their love of running away from any force makes it incredibly difficult to kill them. The tactic SAS is using abuses the power of megapulses, the virtual invincibility of 8 WCS, and the ridiculous state of probes being visible on the scanner. Even if we DO catch them, the methods involve using a lot of ships. So we just get accused of being gankers and any hardwork actually getting a kill is lost. That means SAS never get any hassle from pvp'ers. They're just way too lame and we prefer to fight people like FoE who have the balls to take it to a bigger force (most times). If people want to pretend they re l33t pvp'ers because of their number of kills, fine. Most of XF know SAS's kills are all ganks and never from fighting equal numbers. Yeah, its abit hard when your opponent isn't a npc from an agent mission that sits still and lets you kill him, but actually moves around and apparently outmanoeuvres you. But then again, pvp experience isn't gained from npc missions. Left myself open for that, I admit, but the fact remains: SAS are gankers. Thats all they ever will be. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Hakera	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:49:00 - [77] Very lame tactics tbh, shame on you. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Trooper B99	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:52:00 - [78] Edited by: Trooper B99 on 09/03/2005 10:57:25 Woa, didn't take long before this topic raised it's head again. I do hope for Xetics sake that they have been in contact with the dev's to see what was happening in regards to the war decs and alliance rules, rather than just complaining in private. Personal opinion? Not a smart move on Xetics part from a PR POV, but smart from a "we don't want alt people fighting us". Thing is, from many people's POV, it just makes you look like you don't want to fight anyone. The leaders might not care, but membership? thats a whole 'nother story. Alternate suggestions: a) Have the corps that are seriously effected leave the alliance in the intervening time. They will be safe from the 5-alt gankers, but people who're really out to hurt Xetic in a meaningful way will go after them or hire others to go after them. Allows those that want to fight to fight, and those that don't to hide. b)If you're having trouble in empire, move your empire ops to 0.0. There won't be enough targets for the empire killers and they'll either come to 0.0 after your numbers or they'll leave you alone once targets dry up. c)Utilise third partys to engage your enemys as well, but due to the boredom factors you will have to pay them well. d)Camp them down continously, harry them continously. They have 5 members, you have 4000. Use that advantage, don't give them a break and ruin their "fun". e)Protect your non-fighting members with your fighters. Have convoys with adequate protection. Don't go solo, group up. Have agent runner bases with protection on the gates. Hell, pay your own members to look after your people if they won't do this for the alliance. f)Modify your tactics. Right they're using 8 WCS geddons, yes? okay, a good warpable, 2 stilletos with 3 scrams each. Might take some trying, doesn't work? Try something else. Put in a bait ship, they'll concentrate on that while your people warp in. Doesn't work? Chase them off, as long as they are SS'd they can't kill your people. During the JQA campaign, SUPRM came up against a whole lot of guerilla tactics. Some of which we beat, some of which we didn't. Luck of the draw and you just need to work at perfecting things. These are a couple rough ideas, i'm sure with 4k people you guys can come up with some more and the logistics behind them. Remember, at the end of the day, if they're not killing your people, you are winning even if you don't get a fight. COME ON XETIC, THINK! There are ways to protect your people if you're organised that aren't pseudo-exploits frowned upon by a high proportion of enemies and allies alike. Originally by: Primer Xenius 1. Its totally legal. The GM stated that corps put bootcamps and industrial sister corps all over eve. I bet I can find these XX industry, XX boot in many alliances. Hmm... I think I remember the wording of that petition and it wasn't giving the whole story. If i remember correctly, it was in regards to allowing training academys and industrial wings into the alliance, not in regrads to making 500 1 man alt-corps and stuffing the alliance with them specificaly to preclude wars. Personally I'd like word from CCP on this one or a more evenly worded petition to the GM's. If something isn't forthcoming by the end of work, I think I'll petition it for clarification myself. Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
CKOZUK	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:53:00 - [79] Originally by: Harridan's Hauling Originally by: CKOZUK Originally by: Harridan's Hauling Originally by: darth solo oh, and just for the record, zincol(SAS) is an old time pvper, who will be more than glad to fight u xetic guys 1v1 or in fairer numbers, ganking is part of the game as Xetic well know(massive fleets for 2 ppl kinda thing)... put yer heads together and come up with some dort of defence plan for ur alliance members, or do u need more ppl to do that with... ill say again, like i said before... if u find it impossible to defend ur members and must resort to these tactics that pretty much all of EVE hate, even ur own members, id disband the alliance, its noooooo working. d solo. The issues is that when any force which 'may' cause S.A.S issues appears in a surrounding system, they move to a safe spot. Xetic did this in 0.0 for a fair few weeks when CA attacked do you think thats lame to? This post is my personal opinion and not one of my corp. If you are out-numbered and you want to safe spot thats fine with me. If you log when I deploy my probes then, yeah thats lame IMHO. So if your saying a Xetic fleet logged when you guys deployed scan probes, yeah thats not on, but if your saying Xetic went to a safety, thats fine, thats why scan probes were added to the game. Logging off when probes are deployed is very very poor. Exceptable reasons for logging of are as follows. 1) your house is on fire 2) Wife wants sex 3) Beer 4) Beer Harri Unforunately scan probes were not around back then :( If so I would have been rich from all the abandoned BS left in deadspace. But no Xetic were not outnumbered they outnumbered on many occasions and sat in safespots/stations/logging. Anyway this is all off topic. People are saying that you are fighting alts with alts. To that I say use alt chars not alt corps. The above text is my own views which may not represent my corps views.
Cowboy	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:06:00 - [80] I think I need to up my medication.Strangly I find myself agreeing and siding w/ ATUK and SUPRM guys on this issue btw, pretty lame and sad XF, although it does not suprise me. "Come on God. Answer me. For years I am asking you why. Why are the innocent dead and the guilty alive? Where is justice? Where is punishment? Or have you already answered? Have you already said to the world, here is justice, here is punishment, here..............in me"
Tholarim	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:09:00 - [81] Originally by: Cowboy I think I need to up my medication.Strangly I find myself agreeing and siding w/ ATUK and SUPRM guys on this issue /emote hides under his desk waiting for the sky to fall on it
Marconious	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:16:00 - [82] Not interrested in Xetic there simply kills to me, but just wondering will you been flying these valid alt corps around space or are they just staying as station cleaners. Its just i wouldnt mind increasing my kill ratio. ;)
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:17:00 - [83] Quote: btw, pretty lame and sad XF, although it does not suprise me. What is lame here is you people taking part in another alt based bashing. I've seen most you crying about alts posting here and look at you now, who cares if its an alt. The fact remains that the LAST time an alt brought this type of information here, the same thing happened. Mindless spitting on us. Yet, we still have a much HIGHER number of members per corp then most of the alliances in the game. Here it is again. Internal discussions posted by an alt in light of the fact that no action has been taken and again you got the anti xetic people spitting on us. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:20:00 - [84] Originally by: Primer Xenius Quote: btw, pretty lame and sad XF, although it does not suprise me. What is lame here is you people taking part in another alt based bashing. I've seen most you crying about alts posting here and look at you now, who cares if its an alt. The fact remains that the LAST time an alt brought this type of information here, the same thing happened. Mindless spitting on us. Yet, we still have a much HIGHER number of members per corp then most of the alliances in the game. Here it is again. Internal discussions posted by an alt in light of the fact that no action has been taken and again you got the anti xetic people spitting on us. Dude things went downhill after one your guys said your council voted to adopt this policy. Dont blame others for reacting to sumthing someone in your alliance said who is not an alt. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
Trooper B99	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:20:00 - [85] Originally by: Primer Xenius Here it is again. Internal discussions posted by an alt in light of the fact that no action has been taken and again you got the anti xetic people spitting on us. And pro people as well both inside XETIC and in allied corps/alliances. You've both sides "spitting" at you in light of the possibility of this proposition turning up again. Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
Nafri	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:24:00 - [86] this is so last month Wanna fly with me?
Vlandarr	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:25:00 - [87] Originally by: Primer Xenius Here it is again. Internal discussions posted by an alt in light of the fact that no action has been taken and again you got the anti xetic people spitting on us. Hmmm so whats this then? Originally by: CYVOK In closing 1) Yes it is true, Xetic has voted to take this action.
V2GBR	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:31:00 - [88] Absolutely lame, this proves to me Xetic are the biggest bunch of whining scum in the whole of the eve galaxy. i have always wondered why i disliked Xetic so much, well this has made me realise why. Your members put themselves across like they are the best in pvp so deal with it like the rest of the alliances and fight it out. If CCP allow this to happen i will be disgusted. CCP sort this out and slap these lamers before they get out of control. i am personally looking forward to the day that xetic falls and we can have a decent alliance that will not whine so much. Flame me i dont care. you bunch of tarts ( xetic ) ---------- http://guc.webinventions.co.uk <-- GUC Site. www.webinventions.co.uk <-- My eve history.
Oi Poloi	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:33:00 - [89] Bad idea. Don't lower your standards just because a bunch of roid hugging empire freaks can't handle the wars ----- DJ 4tw
Ivana Killya	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:35:00 - [90] i did say they were doing this, its lame and you know it dosnt matter how you try and spin it! LAME do you not see you are opening a can of worms? how meny game bugs are out there that no one uses? but will now,if they use them on you you cant wine coz they just say it was a point being made to CCP. Do you not see how sad you look moaning on about SAS,and thinking the plan is fine and defending it on the forum, i would quit EVE before i backed this move if FOE did this i would come on and say it myself, "its lame i quit" but i also know if anyone in FOE thought this was a good idea, they WOULD BE KICKED IN TO THE MIDDLE OF NEXT WEEK! 5 men vs 5000 YOU WANT TO MAKE IT TO MUCH ISK TO WAR XETIC? HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME if this idea does not make you guys look like sad losers i dont know wot will Ivana
Harridan's Hauling	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:36:00 - [91] Originally by: V2GBR Absolutely lame, this proves to me Xetic are the biggest bunch of whining scum in the whole of the eve galaxy. i have always wondered why i disliked Xetic so much, well this has made me realise why. Your members put themselves across like they are the best in pvp so deal with it like the rest of the alliances and fight it out. If CCP allow this to happen i will be disgusted. CCP sort this out and slap these lamers before they get out of control. i am personally looking forward to the day that xetic falls and we can have a decent alliance that will not whine so much. Flame me i dont care. you bunch of tarts ( xetic ) How constructive of you!!!!!!! Emotionally wounded?
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:37:00 - [92] Edited by: Primer Xenius on 09/03/2005 11:38:54 XETIC 77 per corp FOE 40 per corp FOE, you have trouble understanding those figures?! It means, that an alt corps get to shoot each of our guys at half the prices of your guys. Until those numbers change, you have no credibility here. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
V2GBR	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:40:00 - [93] No i just hate your feckin alliance. You always blame **** on someone or something else. ---------- http://guc.webinventions.co.uk <-- GUC Site. www.webinventions.co.uk <-- My eve history.
Hobbsalong	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:42:00 - [94] Lame
Ivana Killya	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:45:00 - [95] omg spin the stats that will help your plite as we are at war with you i think we have the right. YOU HAVE A NEVER ENDING SUPPLY OF FOOLS, NICE JOB
MegaJ	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:46:00 - [96] Edited by: MegaJ on 09/03/2005 11:54:02 Edited by: MegaJ on 09/03/2005 11:48:43 Let me clear some things up for all of you: S.A.S are not alts and is not an alt corp, all of the characters are mains. We are a group of people who have fought many fights together and make a good team. Our Arma's certainly don't carry 8 WCS, why do you think they do so much damage? I fight XETIC on my own, usually about 3 vs 1 or worse, everyday before downtime when the rest of my corp is offline. We choose our fights and don't mindlessly jump into blobs. There most certainly have been fights between S.A.S and Xetic with about even numbers (we were still outnumbered), I recall a fight in Du Annes and one in Oursulaert for instance. But we would be plain stupid to engage 8+ BS when we have 2 floating about at that time. One of the lowest amount of ships we've killed have been of the type: Industrial. *Upping the war cost with alt corps is lame, but you drop enough loot to pay for it. Thank you for reading. [-SAS-] on Eve-Kills
Randorial	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:46:00 - [97] Originally by: Primer Xenius Edited by: Primer Xenius on 09/03/2005 11:38:54 XETIC 77 per corp FOE 40 per corp FOE, you have trouble understanding those figures?! It means, that an alt corps get to shoot each of our guys at half the prices of your guys. Until those numbers change, you have no credibility here. Dude it doesn't matter what the numbers per corp are now. You're the ones trying to lower that by putting alt corps in. FoE can hardly help that their corps are not as huge as your corps are. But they aren't actively trying to lower the average member/corp count by using fake corps. you guys are. That's the whole issue. Not what the member/corp ratio is atm
Ivana Killya	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:53:00 - [98] Megaj is my alts alts alt btw
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:00:00 - [99] Quote: Dude it doesn't matter what the numbers per corp are now. You're the ones trying to lower that by putting alt corps in. FoE can hardly help that their corps are not as huge as your corps are. But they aren't actively trying to lower the average member/corp count by using fake corps. you guys are. That's the whole issue. Not what the member/corp ratio is atm Fact is, this was blasted over the boards by an alt a month or two ago. Nothing happened, we still have one of the highest number of members per corp and as such, SAS gets far more target per unit isk against us then against most alliances. Since that time, NO alt corps have joined XETIC. Here, here we are again. Another alt, and again the masses of ignorant jumping on board to have a spit at XETIC without looking at the fact. NOT A SINGLE ALT CORP IN XETIC. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Vlandarr	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:00:00 - [100] Originally by: Primer Xenius Edited by: Primer Xenius on 09/03/2005 11:38:54 XETIC 77 per corp FOE 40 per corp FOE, you have trouble understanding those figures?! It means, that an alt corps get to shoot each of our guys at half the prices of your guys. Until those numbers change, you have no credibility here. Arent a lot of those xetics corp members alts to as the more members a corp has the more votes it has?
Balistic Void	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:01:00 - [101] They haven't dropped us any T2 BPOs but this kill made us giggle 2005.03.08 03:14:00 Victim: Dragon power Corporation: Celestial Horizon Corp. Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Kemerk System Security Level: 0.8 Involved parties: Name: RedEye Security Status: 2.6 Corporation: Corp 1 Ship Type: Claw Weapon Type: Unknown Name: fugazii (laid the final blow) Security Status: -1.7 Corporation: Forsaken Empire Ship Type: Crow Weapon Type: Bloodclaw Light Missile I Name: higleiberrie Security Status: -1.9 Corporation: Celtic industries Ship Type: Punisher Weapon Type: Unknown Name: Ryunoko Security Status: -1.8 Corporation: Forsaken Empire Ship Type: Rifter Weapon Type: Unknown Destroyed items: Type: Strip Miner I (Fitted - High slot) Type: Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Type: Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Type: Expanded Cargohold I (Fitted - Low slot) Type: Raven Blueprint (Cargo) Type: Raven Blueprint (Cargo) Type: Bane Torpedo I (Cargo) Quantity: 3333 Type: Bane Torpedo I (Cargo) Quantity: 600
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:03:00 - [102] Quote: Arent a lot of those xetics corp members alts to as the more members a corp has the more votes it has? sigh No. Look, find an alt corp and I'll listen. Till then, keep on supporting the alts. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Tholarim	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:04:00 - [103] Edited by: Tholarim on 09/03/2005 12:04:22 hmmm dicussions :p
Waagaa Ktlehr	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:04:00 - [104] It's currently like what? 53m to wardec XETIC? So say you get your avg # members / corp halved, then it will be 100m to wardec XETIC for a week. Still doesn't keep anyone from wardeccing you guys. RCU II BPO, 3.5b.. that's 35 weeks of war.. Random drop off a BS is worth 10m-ish. Kill 10 and you have your warfee sorted for another week. All I can see is bad PR and zilch accomplishment by doing this. ------------------------------------------ I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun!
Kaleeb	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:07:00 - [105] Sometimes I think Trooper B99 should be made emperor of eve lol. Not once have a seen him make a retarded comment. I agree with what he says aswell, i`m sure that with 4000 members you could do something more constructive than use alt corps... herd SAS up and lock them in a system...like a flock of sheep hehe. Using Alt corps isnt that way forward guys, you didnt survive the CA war for nothing! wheres the fighting spirit? I`ve tried to think of a way to fix the war decs etc, but cant (ask trooper, he'll know)
Vlandarr	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:07:00 - [106] Originally by: Primer Xenius Quote: Dude it doesn't matter what the numbers per corp are now. You're the ones trying to lower that by putting alt corps in. FoE can hardly help that their corps are not as huge as your corps are. But they aren't actively trying to lower the average member/corp count by using fake corps. you guys are. That's the whole issue. Not what the member/corp ratio is atm NOT A SINGLE ALT CORP IN XETIC. http://www.eve-online.com/alliances/a_1962835064.asp Quote: Empire State Holding Corp. consists of 2 members Quote: M.o.M. consists of 1 members What are these 2?
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:11:00 - [107] Quote: So what's that then primer? the fact that they aren't in yet doesn't really weigh up against the fact that you guys decided to go ahead with it. To be perfectly honest, things get passed which sometimes are really not very popular. XETIC corps have the OPTION of making a bootcamp or whatever but I seriously doubt any corp will go that way (or very few). Nor has any corp gone that way in the past. I think the alert observer should just keep an eye of the XETIC corp list and then judge the alliance on this issue. In my view, the fact that the corps did not flood the alliance with alt corps since the motion, is a testiment of how very wrong people are about our guys. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Ivana Killya	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:14:00 - [108] Dude alt post or not an XETIC member said its true read befor you post Just stop diging a hole for urself give it up
Tholarim	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:14:00 - [109] Edited by: Tholarim on 09/03/2005 12:15:01 Originally by: Primer Xenius Quote: So what's that then primer? the fact that they aren't in yet doesn't really weigh up against the fact that you guys decided to go ahead with it. To be perfectly honest, things get passed which sometimes are really not very popular. XETIC corps have the OPTION of making a bootcamp or whatever but I seriously doubt any corp will go that way (or very few). Nor has any corp gone that way in the past. I think the alert observer should just keep an eye of the XETIC corp list and then judge the alliance on this issue. In my view, the fact that the corps did not flood the alliance with alt corps since the motion, is a testiment of how very wrong people are about our guys. Fair enough, we'll judge in a few weeks then i suppose I'll leave you to it. It livend up my day at work a bit
Seleene	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:16:00 - [110] Originally by: Kaleeb Sometimes I think Trooper B99 should be made emperor of eve lol. Not once have a seen him make a retarded comment. That's why he's in my corp now. So I can keep an eye on him. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:18:00 - [111] Quote: Empire State Holding Corp. consists of 2 members M.o.M. consists of 1 members What are these 2? M.o.M ... Member of XETIC Federation since 2004.12.02 MoM was a small PVP corp and since December last year. No idea about its status now but it was clearly not made to boost war costs. Empire State Holding Corp. Member of XETIC Federation since 2005.03.07 Holding the line between the darkness and the light. Feythabolis State Holding Corp. The First State of the Xetic Federation, The Empire State Contacts: CYVOK (CLS) , SJ Talsar (SNCO) Empire State Holding Corp. consists of 2 members Speaks for itself. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
Vlandarr	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:27:00 - [112] Originally by: Primer Xenius Quote: Empire State Holding Corp. consists of 2 members M.o.M. consists of 1 members What are these 2? M.o.M ... Member of XETIC Federation since 2004.12.02 MoM was a small PVP corp and since December last year. No idea about its status now but it was clearly not made to boost war costs. Empire State Holding Corp. Member of XETIC Federation since 2005.03.07 Holding the line between the darkness and the light. Feythabolis State Holding Corp. The First State of the Xetic Federation, The Empire State Contacts: CYVOK (CLS) , SJ Talsar (SNCO) Empire State Holding Corp. consists of 2 members Speaks for itself. Ok so MoM is now dead if I was in an alliance I would be thinking of kicking removing it but keeping it in would suit your current affairs.. As for the Empire State Holding Corp isn't it suprising that it was created only 2 days ago? Coincidence I think not. This corp I assume it has active players in it yes? You have multiple holding corps why do you need another one?
Nafri	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:34:00 - [113] Originally by: Vlandarr Originally by: Primer Xenius Quote: Empire State Holding Corp. consists of 2 members M.o.M. consists of 1 members What are these 2? M.o.M ... Member of XETIC Federation since 2004.12.02 MoM was a small PVP corp and since December last year. No idea about its status now but it was clearly not made to boost war costs. Empire State Holding Corp. Member of XETIC Federation since 2005.03.07 Holding the line between the darkness and the light. Feythabolis State Holding Corp. The First State of the Xetic Federation, The Empire State Contacts: CYVOK (CLS) , SJ Talsar (SNCO) Empire State Holding Corp. consists of 2 members Speaks for itself. Ok so MoM is now dead if I was in an alliance I would be thinking of kicking removing it but keeping it in would suit your current affairs.. As for the Empire State Holding Corp isn't it suprising that it was created only 2 days ago? Coincidence I think not. This corp I assume it has active players in it yes? You have multiple holding corps why do you need another one? I was member of MoM, so thy cant kick that corp, would break my heart and sorry, you know nothing, its not your thing to discuss such things, and generally who gives a ** what others think? XETIC tried to act in "honor" for a long time, what gave them, nothing? yeah, yes nothing sorry, but your guys give me just a laugh, not more not less Wanna fly with me?**
Primer Xenius	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:37:00 - [114] Quote: Ok so MoM is now dead if I was in an alliance I would be thinking of kicking removing it but keeping it in would suit your current affairs.. Desperation. Quote: As for the Empire State Holding Corp isn't it suprising that it was created only 2 days ago? Coincidence I think not. This corp I assume it has active players in it yes? You have multiple holding corps why do you need another one? It has a legit function totally unrelated to this topic which is none of your business. "we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
olyyyyy	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:38:00 - [115] Edited by: olyyyyy on 09/03/2005 12:43:48 edit: what Cyvok said on page 1. Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 )
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:40:00 - [116] Originally by: Masta Killa Since the pie rats use dirty tactics then Xif using -almost- equally dirty tactics against them is very fine by me. Make 200 alt corps with 1 member each to make the rich pirates broke If we keep giving away tech II bpo's then we may need to make an alt corp. each LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Masta Killa	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:40:00 - [117] Since the pie rats use dirty tactics then Xif using -almost- equally dirty tactics against them is very fine by me. Make 200 alt corps with 1 member each to make the rich pirates broke -------------------------------------- We are The Collective. Resistance is futile.
Vlandarr	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:49:00 - [118] Originally by: Primer Xenius It has a legit function totally unrelated to this topic which is none of your business. But it is an alt corp As for being none of my business this maybe true but when something like this is brought into the public eye that a vast majority of the population don't like, a lot of things are going to be under scrutiny thier business or not.
Zhuge Liang	Posted - 2005.03.09 12:52:00 - [119] Repeatedly going offtopic, locked. ZhuuÀ gheyÀleeÀyan (Kongming)

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