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The Slavetrader	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:03:00 - [1] I havent played for quite a while but when I last did 1200's were pretty much the most useless gun in the entire game. Im wondering if thats still the case since they have been patched ?? Could someone who's a math genius or just anyone clued up pls provide feedback as to whether 1200's are now a viable gun choice on a Tempest. Thanks
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:10:00 - [2] well after the boost on projectiles, the new 1200 is equal to the old 1400 (pre-boost), less the range, but with better (not that much) tracking, Rof, fitting requirements and bigger ammo clip. it's more usefull than before but some peeps might say that they still prefer fit 1400's . ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.03.09 10:51:00 - [3] 1200mm IIs on a Typhoon are amazing guns. Would still rather use 1400mm IIs on a Tempest. Named 1200mm are not as good but not as bad as they were. 720mm II + Siege = Typhoon 1200mm II = Typhoon 1400mm II = Tempest -------------------- The Nest
Sassi	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:15:00 - [4] I was wondering, dont people consider that not nearly everybody in this game can use T2 guns? I see so many people use T2 stuff to compare with and its just wrong. You could as well just use T1 for comparison and if people like the stats they can expect much more from T2 modules, instead of reading only about T2¦s and always have this fear of not being able to get uber in this game cuz they cant use all the T2 stuff listed in forums. I hope you get my point here. 1200 I¦s = Typhoon, kthx.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.03.09 11:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Sassi I was wondering, dont people consider that not nearly everybody in this game can use T2 guns? I see so many people use T2 stuff to compare with and its just wrong. You could as well just use T1 for comparison and if people like the stats they can expect much more from T2 modules, instead of reading only about T2¦s and always have this fear of not being able to get uber in this game cuz they cant use all the T2 stuff listed in forums. I hope you get my point here. 1200 I¦s = Typhoon, kthx. I think this falls into 2 catagories. 1) Absolutely correct for old players with lots of isk 2) For newer players its easy to get 720mm IIs than it is to get uber named t1s. 720mm IIs will easily outperform, combined with Siege, better on a Typhoon. Not only that but it is a good trade off in skill training because most newer players will/should go for cruiser/battlecruiser first and when/if they step into a phoon the guns transfer over nicely. 1200mm named don't do that as well. 1200mm Is are very poor because of hindered damage output that is actually lower than a 720mm II and ammo for the 720mm II will save cargo. For the character going for BS 720mm IIs will also come in handy because if you specialize in projectiles you need to train for them anyways. Hope that clears things up for some people that this applies to. -------------------- The Nest
Bhal'rog	Posted - 2005.03.09 13:31:00 - [6] Think about all that extra grid and cpu you get to play with if you mount 4 720 II's on a 'phoon You can make a very nice tank. You will never have an easier time loading out your med and low slots.
Shirei	Posted - 2005.03.09 13:46:00 - [7] Edited by: Shirei on 09/03/2005 13:47:07 Originally by: Bhal'rog Think about all that extra grid and cpu you get to play with if you mount 4 720 II's on a 'phoon You can make a very nice tank. You will never have an easier time loading out your med and low slots. If you do want to fit cruiser guns (and consequently forego the ship bonus), why fit the cruiser guns with the least DoT. Heavy Pulse II or Heavy Beam II (depending on your preferred range) should outperform them easily and the cap drain shouldn't be that bad for a BS. Altho, it is probably rather hard to find someone who can use t2 lasers and at the same time flies Minmatar ships.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.03.09 13:54:00 - [8] Originally by: Shirei Edited by: Shirei on 09/03/2005 13:47:07 Originally by: Bhal'rog Think about all that extra grid and cpu you get to play with if you mount 4 720 II's on a 'phoon You can make a very nice tank. You will never have an easier time loading out your med and low slots. If you do want to fit cruiser guns (and consequently forego the ship bonus), why fit the cruiser guns with the least DoT. Heavy Pulse II or Heavy Beam II (depending on your preferred range) should outperform them easily and the cap drain shouldn't be that bad for a BS. Altho, it is probably rather hard to find someone who can use t2 lasers and at the same time flies Minmatar ships. Have you ever used 720mm IIs, they are the cherry of EVE. I would recommend Scorpions w/ 2 of them to back up their Sieges. Not to mention on gank setups they do INSANE damage. 2 tracking comp IIs and 4 Gyro IIs are totally EVIL and rival 1200mm IIs except in operating range. I know I use both, alot, and I mean alot. I love my 720mm IIs so much I am thinking about a cyclone instead of my prophecy. CCP really did a good job with projectiles and I used to use 4 Heavy Anode Particle Streams on the PHOON with a nearly identical setup, HS IIs vs Gyro IIs. No comparison, 720mm 4tw. -------------------- The Nest
Shirei	Posted - 2005.03.09 14:10:00 - [9] Edited by: Shirei on 09/03/2005 14:12:13 720mm II: Range: 24k Falloff: 17.5k normalised dmg mod: 0.437 Heavy Pulse II: Range: 16.8k Falloff: 4k normalised dmg mod: 0.68 (55% more than 720 II) Heavy Beam II: Range: 24k Falloff: 8k normalised dmd mod: 0.6 (38% more than 720 II) The only advantage 720 II have is a lot higher falloff, which means you can use shorter range ammo for longer. But unless you want to go to extreme ranges (i.e. past the Range + Falloff of beams with Radio), that won't make up an almost 40% difference in DoT, if you are using the right crystals. 720s are designed for the Rupture with its dual damage/RoF bonus the same way as 1400s are designed for the Tempest.. They will only do comparable DoT to other weapon types, if fitted on that ship. They of course still do very nice single salvo damage, so they're nice if you are after popping frigs.. but if you fire at a target for more than 2-3 salvos, lasers will beat them any day on a ship without a corresponding damage bonus.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.03.09 14:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Shirei Edited by: Shirei on 09/03/2005 14:12:13 720mm II: Range: 24k Falloff: 17.5k normalised dmg mod: 0.437 Heavy Pulse II: Range: 16.8k Falloff: 4k normalised dmg mod: 0.68 (55% more than 720 II) Heavy Beam II: Range: 24k Falloff: 8k normalised dmd mod: 0.6 (38% more than 720 II) The only advantage 720 II have is a lot higher falloff, which means you can use shorter range ammo for longer. But unless you want to go to extreme ranges (i.e. past the Range + Falloff of beams with Radio), that won't make up an almost 40% difference in DoT, if you are using the right crystals. 720s are designed for the Rupture with its dual damage/RoF bonus the same way as 1400s are designed for the Tempest.. They will only do comparable DoT to other weapon types, if fitted on that ship. They of course still do very nice single salvo damage, so they're nice if you are after popping frigs.. but if you fire at a target for more than 2-3 salvos, lasers will beat them any day on a ship without a corresponding damage bonus. Not true, look at the typhoon's targeting range - 720 IIs are the clear winner. Try fitting 720mm IIs on a rupture... it sux they were not built for any cruiser period... bonuses suck if you can only fit 3 to 4 of them and missiles are by far the best cruiser weapon not to mention modulated small beams and tech II work TONS better on a rupture than ANY projectile setup could ever hope for. 650s are for the rupture. Munnin is only platform that you can sacrifice lows for power mods to justify the fitting of 720 IIs. Falloff means TONS more than optimum when you can't track as well. Ammo damage is totally better than lasers ( why do you think people are hating the laser changes coming out ) and to be honest lasers just aren't as cool. Single Salvo's are a lot better at range especially against interceptors... and to reiderate... all the damage spectrum is covered. EM/THERM only goes so far. Add tanking into the equasion and lasers, no matter if you can get 12cap pershot, is just not feasable. Add the RoF of beams into the equasion and cap use goes up even more. Beams miss almost as much as 720s so factor in cap lost for nothing, no damage, nada... why would u use beams over 720 IIs? I have beam specialization and projectile specialization and I can tell you 720MM 4TW. I would and have put 7 720MM IIs on a geddon w/ tracking/dmod setup and it wastes things at all ranges. Beams are only meant to go on ships with bonuses to get the best use out of them. Medium Projectiles have and always will be viable on bonusless BSs ships for insta damage... IIs make it that much better damage. -------------------- The Nest
Seraph Demon	Posted - 2005.03.09 15:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Have you ever used 720mm IIs? they are the cherry of EVE!

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