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Angelina Joliee
Project Stealth Squad Initiative Mercenaries
1
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Posted - 2012.10.02 13:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all,
i have this shiny rattlesnake i do blood raider plexes with. Why rattlesnake you ask? Because it has huge passive-shield-recharge. This way i dont need to take a logistic with me and can instead take another dps with me.
The fitting: [Rattlesnake, Passive] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum B-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Pithum B-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Improved Cloaking Device II Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II Large Core Defense Field Purger II Large Core Defense Field Purger II
The stats: - 370 hp/s shield-recharge, 3000 hp/s counting resistances in. - 200k effective hitpoints (em) - 600 dps
The energy-transfer is only for cap-chain after all neuts are destroyed.
I've tested this in some blood plexes and it did very nice. Shield never got below 90%.
But i know there are some plexes with incoming em-citadel-torps which deal about 180k em-damage every 30 seconds to a capital. Now my question: How much damage will this citadel-torpedo do to my rattlesnake? Will it surveive or wil it pop after second hit?
Thank you for your answers - but i am not interested in recommandations like "Better take a loki, munnin or abbadon as tank".
Angie
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Krakhen
Praetors of Orpheus
0
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Posted - 2012.10.02 14:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not a very high SP character soI would love it if people also added the relevant skill levels to their build. Unless it's not proper, I have no idea if this is taboo or something but it rarely gets mentionned. This way we could relate not only with the equipment but also with the pilots skill levels.
Btw I'm also aiming for a Rattlesnake, hence my interest in this thread |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1719
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Posted - 2012.10.02 15:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
180k damage per 30 seconds = 6k dps per second, so comparing that with your raw tank, you might not hold. However, you need to take into consideration that a) your resists are really well stacked against that, and b) you're much smaller than a carrier.
You should plug the incoming damage into EFT/Pyfa at a 60/40 EM/thermal split and see what effective tank you get against that. It should be significantly higher than your uniform damage tank, and a better approximation to compare to the figure above.
Lastly, even when you try it, try to have some friends on hand to bail you out with damage or rep support. It would suck to lose a Rattlesnake to rats.
Angelina Joliee wrote: Thank you for your answers - but i am not interested in recommandations like "Better take a loki, munnin or abbadon as tank".
You're probably gonna get some of that anyway, unfortunately. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1719
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Posted - 2012.10.02 15:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Krakhen wrote:I'm not a very high SP character soI would love it if people also added the relevant skill levels to their build. Unless it's not proper, I have no idea if this is taboo or something but it rarely gets mentionned. This way we could relate not only with the equipment but also with the pilots skill levels. Btw I'm also aiming for a Rattlesnake, hence my interest in this thread Typically when talking about raw fits, people look at the "All Level V" stats in their fitting tool. So far as the minimum skills "required", you just need to be able to sit in the ship and fit the mods. That said, to fly it competently, most of those skills should be level 4-5, plus a large variety of auxiliary skills (mostly in the Engineering, Electronics, and Mechanic categories, plus whichever skills pertain to your weapons/drones) should also be as high as possible.
I'm saying this as a blanket statement for the Rattlesnake, as it is a faction battleship worth several hundreds of millions of ISK just for the hull, so it would be a shame to fly it poorly. Personally, I wouldn't touch it without having:
- Caldari Battleship V
- Gallente Battleship V
- Drones V, Drone Interfacing V, Scout Drones V, 2+ drone specializations V, Heavy Drone Operation V, Sentry Drone Operation V, all drone support skills IV or V
- Shield Operation V, Shield Management V, Tactical Shield Manipulation IV, shield compensation skills III-IV+, Shield Upgrades V
- Torpedos V, Torpedo Specialization IV-V, all missile support skills IV-V
- All fitting skills V (including Weapon Upgrades, Advanced Weapon Upgrades, Engineering, Electronics, and a bunch of others)
- Shield Rigging III-IV+
Might seem intense, but faction battleships are some of the tougher things to train for. Looking at the things I put forward, if you train straight for it, it may be 1-1.5 years at the least (and doesn't help you very much with other ships, since there are very few drone-focused heavily shield tanked ships). Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
89
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Posted - 2012.10.02 20:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:180k damage per 30 seconds = 6k dps per second, so comparing that with your raw tank, you might not hold..
Even worse, shield recharge rate changes with shield level (it reaches a maximum at about 33% shield capacity and drops off in both directions).
"Bursty" damage can take a shield tank below the magic 33% more easily than steady incoming dps. If your shield is at 40% and you get hit by something that takes it down to 20% in one hit, you've just lost much of your natural recharge rate. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity
116
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Posted - 2012.10.03 01:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
You might try fitting an afterburner, vs citadel torps. Triple rep Myrms are like what you'd get if you strapped a beehive to Robocop. |
Kejii Maeda
Quovis Rolling Thunder.
0
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Posted - 2012.10.03 01:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
My experience with those EM Citadel Torps is they hurt a lot. A lot more than you would expect. You have your sig radius much higher because of the extenders and rigs, and that's part of why it hurts more than you expect. If you are going to tank against other rats AND the torpedo then I would estimate that your tank would break between the 4th and 8th torpedo. My experience with this situation is that there is a whole bunch of DPS from rats in addition to the torp. An afterburner would help a bit. I would recommend at the very least fit a shield boosting setup and at the most bring a designated remote repper.
If you there is no other damage coming in besides the torpedo then you should be alright.
In either case, always stay aligned so that if you fall below 40-50% you can warp off unless you are sure that you are going to be fine. Leave the drones behind if you have to. They are cheaper to replace than the Rattlesnake. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4784
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Posted - 2012.10.03 08:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
The best way to tank that torp is to get out of range ASAP. IIRC it only reaches out to just under 60Km. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
100
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Posted - 2012.10.03 09:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Angelina Joliee wrote:Hi all,
i have this shiny rattlesnake i do blood raider plexes with. Why rattlesnake you ask? Because it has huge passive-shield-recharge. This way i dont need to take a logistic with me and can instead take another dps with me.
The fitting: [Rattlesnake, Passive] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum B-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Pithum B-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Improved Cloaking Device II Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II Large Core Defense Field Purger II Large Core Defense Field Purger II
The stats: - 370 hp/s shield-recharge, 3000 hp/s counting resistances in. - 200k effective hitpoints (em) - 600 dps
The energy-transfer is only for cap-chain after all neuts are destroyed.
I've tested this in some blood plexes and it did very nice. Shield never got below 90%.
But i know there are some plexes with incoming em-citadel-torps which deal about 180k em-damage every 30 seconds to a capital. Now my question: How much damage will this citadel-torpedo do to my rattlesnake? Will it surveive or wil it pop after second hit?
Thank you for your answers - but i am not interested in recommandations like "Better take a loki, munnin or abbadon as tank".
Angie
I've never run 10/10 PLEXes, but from what I've heard its 200k damage these citadel torpedoes do, that cant be mitigated by sig. Other say 180k only. So if 1rst is true, you may end in structure, or die maybe with some heavy aggro from rats when the torpedo hits you.
I'd drop some SPRs, for some CN (or even T2) power diagnostic system, to give higher EHP vs. EM resist. Whether your tank will hold vs. the rats then, its another matter! I'd have a scimi or two nearby.
With 2 PDS T2 and rest SPR T2 you should have 200+k shield EHP only vs EM. Maybe try both, post here what works? |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
66
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Posted - 2012.10.04 04:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Make sure to use some good shield hardwirings. |
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Angelina Joliee
Project Stealth Squad Initiative Mercenaries
1
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Posted - 2012.10.04 12:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yeah. I share all your concerns. Thats why i made my question public. Seems i hoped for somebody saying: "Those torps dont do much damage if you have 10m/s speed or more." or "Those torps are easy manageable with a smart-bomb." or something like that.
Looks like i need to give up my idea of doing those plexes without a logistic and go buy a muninn/domi for tank/rep and call a corp-friend to do damage. But i am a bit disappointed. I really hoped for a solution without remote-rep- especially as a solution for the upcoming npc-ai-changes. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1737
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Posted - 2012.10.04 16:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Angelina Joliee wrote:especially as a solution for the upcoming npc-ai-changes. Then the Rattler wouldn't be an optimal solution anyway, because its drones will get shot after the AI changes. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Angelina Joliee
Project Stealth Squad Initiative Mercenaries
1
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Then the Rattler wouldn't be an optimal solution anyway, because its drones will get shot after the AI changes.
That will be manageable. The drones won't get one-shooted and not all npc's will engage my drones. Depends on size of the npc and the size of my drones.
What i fear i will not always manage is the following situation after npc-ai-change: - I tank with my Abaddon, Loki, Muninn, ... . Fitted with passive armor (because of the neuts). - I remote rep with a domi or logistic. - A corp mate helps with damage. - Some npc's engage the domi/logistic => domi/logistic needs to warp out. - My tank dies because my domi/logi does not arrive back in time to rep my scrambled and weapon-disrupted tank.
I dont say, there are no solutions. But it will not be as easy as it is now it seems - where you can simply cloak your logistic when a new wave of npc's arrive. |
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