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Amount of subscibers, EvE vs other mmo

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Tarvos Telesto Blood Fanatics 15	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:17:00 - [1] - Quote Hi all While ago i wach some world championsship turnament in online game caled leauage of legends, and here was more than 80.000 views live that is more than average amount of people loged in eve, just a single room strem tv chanel with 80.000 people waching... but in total here is milions of views while turnament, because people can select own chanel with specific language depend country where they living. The best part, this game is not even a mmo is just game where people fight 5vs5 in old boring map, using champions like pokemons or somthing like this. Why others online games are so popular and EvE not So bigger is better ? maybe EvE offer to much large scale pvp ? maybe is to hardcore for mass ? maybe here solo and small pvp is dead ? maybe people love game with small amount of people involed to pvp than like 500vs500 with lag fest and zero fun, maybe is time to change this. Sorry for my horrible grammar. o7
Blacksails Killing is Business Tribal Band 15	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:18:00 - [2] - Quote Clearly, Eve is dying. -Witty signature here
Lord Ryan True Xero 684	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:19:00 - [3] - Quote After you thread gets locked ask your self the question again. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes.
Tarvos Telesto Blood Fanatics 15	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:21:00 - [4] - Quote Blacksails wrote: Clearly, Eve is dying. Is not anoter EvE is dying post. im old player who play form 2006 ( more than 500 day online) and i adep to this fact. here is average 40k online, i wrote this post because want to know real reason why here only small amount of people compared to other online game...
Jim Era 4166	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:21:00 - [5] - Quote because its space, and space is more boring than anything
Tarvos Telesto Blood Fanatics 15	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:24:00 - [6] - Quote Jim Era wrote: because its space, and space is more boring than anything also interstellar dix SF themes got big amount of all kind fans, StarWars, Battlestar galactica, Star Trek, etc... it must be another reason...
Jim Era 4167	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:26:00 - [7] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: SF themes got big amount of all kind fans, StarWars, Battlestar galactica, Star Trek, etc... it must be another reason... Everyone who likes those things are here, in EVE. its not that many. I've yet to meet anyone that enjoys one of those shows listed, including myself.
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 852	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:31:00 - [8] - Quote Because more people don't mean a better game. I would rather EVE keep its current sub numbers forever than double it by adding LoL players.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 2719	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:34:00 - [9] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: Blacksails wrote: Clearly, Eve is dying. Is not anoter EvE is dying post. im old player who play form 2006 ( more than 500 day online) and i adep to this fact. here is average 40k online, i wrote this post because want to know real reason why here only small amount of people compared to other online game... They primarily cater to different audiences. The more simple and casual friendly your game is the larger the potential playerbase it can attract. The most played games in the world aren't games you pay 50 dollars in a store or ones you subscribe to. They're relatively simple(easy to learn hard to master variety), but well made games, that are either free to play or cost a dollar or two to get. Add to that a competative gaming aspect, preferably with real money prices, and you can attract and keep the hardcore gamers too.
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1127	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:35:00 - [10] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: Sorry for my horrible grammar. Those red squiggly lines when you type mean something.

Dirty Wizard The Geedunk Expedition 40	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:37:00 - [11] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: So bigger is better ? maybe EvE offer to much large scale pvp ? maybe is to hardcore for mass ? maybe here solo and small pvp is dead ? maybe people love game with small amount of people involed to pvp than like 500vs500 with lag fest and zero fun, maybe is time to change this. Sorry for my horrible grammar. o7 EvE is different than any other MMO or multiplayer game out there. It's a nitch game which means it's not for everyone. You would be surprised at how many people have actually tried this game. Only a handful stick around. It's difficult to tell if they can't handle a sandbox MMO and PvP with risk and consequences, or maybe CCP has failed to appeal to a wider audience. Either way it translates into a smaller playerbase than other MMOs. I sincerely hope you're not comparing EvEs numbers against WoWs numbers. It's an unfair comparison. Leave WoW out of the equation and compare EvE to other MMOs. The population disparity isn't that much different. Also keep in mind the skill point system in EvE is developer genius. Players have to invest real time to progress their character. That means players who have a lot of skill points are heavily invested in the game and are not likely to walk away from that. Unfortunately this also means new players can easily walk away from the game because their skill points are low.
Tarvos Telesto Blood Fanatics 15	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:39:00 - [12] - Quote Destination SkillQueue wrote: Tarvos Telesto wrote: Blacksails wrote: Clearly, Eve is dying. Is not anoter EvE is dying post. im old player who play form 2006 ( more than 500 day online) and i adep to this fact. here is average 40k online, i wrote this post because want to know real reason why here only small amount of people compared to other online game... They primarily cater to different audiences. The more simple and casual friendly your game is the larger the potential playerbase it can attract. The most played games in the world aren't games you pay 50 dollars in a store or ones you subscribe to. They're relatively simple(easy to learn hard to master variety), but well made games, that are either free to play or cost a dollar or two to get. Add to that a competative gaming aspect, preferably with real money prizes, and you can attract and keep the hardcore gamers too. You have right, however would be cool if we got very large amount of new people who give new impact to EvE, also more people more importand competition betwen players and economy , not like static 0.1isk war betwen few people who loged in jita 24/7.
Tarvos Telesto Blood Fanatics 15	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:44:00 - [13] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Tarvos Telesto wrote: Sorry for my horrible grammar. Those red squiggly lines when you type mean something. My browser using my native language correction, not English, but thanks for tip.
Robert De'Arneth 83	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:47:00 - [14] - Quote Real simple the answer is young padawan, in order to play EVE, you have to learn how to play.
Spurty V0LTA Verge of Collapse 492	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:58:00 - [15] - Quote LOL is rife with elves and unicorns EVE is full of orcs and trolls Unicorns attract, trolls repel ---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 36	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:07:00 - [16] - Quote This game is hard for beginners. About WIS
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1127	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:09:00 - [17] - Quote We can't dress in colorful neon gowns and show off our meta 13 red flamey shield converter of loathing to other people in station. ... and we cant have a pink thorax with velvet trim.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 589	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:13:00 - [18] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: Hi all While ago i wach some world championsship turnament in online game caled leauage of legends, and here was more than 80.000 views live that is more than average amount of people loged in eve, just a single room strem tv chanel with 80.000 people waching... but in total here is milions of views while turnament, because people can select own chanel with specific language depend country where they living. The best part, this game is not even a mmo is just game where people fight 5vs5 in old boring map, using champions like pokemons or somthing like this. Why others online games are so popular and EvE not So bigger is better ? maybe EvE offer to much large scale pvp ? maybe is to hardcore for mass ? maybe here solo and small pvp is dead ? maybe people love game with small amount of people involed to pvp than like 500vs500 with lag fest and zero fun, maybe is time to change this. Sorry for my horrible grammar. o7 League of legends is just warcraft 3. A blizzard game that has been out a decade. From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 855	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:13:00 - [19] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: You have right, however would be cool if we got very large amount of new people who give new impact to EvE, also more people more importand competition betwen players and economy , not like static 0.1isk war betwen few people who loged in jita 24/7. Yes, it would. But it requires a special rare kind of people to do so. Even if you were to throw a million of (insert other game) casual players into EVE, teach them everything there is to know, make them stick around, there is a good chance that only very few if any of them will actually ever make any impact on the universe.
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 857	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:22:00 - [20] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: maybe here solo and small pvp is dead ? maybe people love game with small amount of people involed to pvp than like 500vs500 with lag fest and zero fun, maybe is time to change this. I wanted to comment on this specifically. There are countless other games which focus on 1v1 or 5v5 or 10v10 or 20v20 or 30v30 or pick-your-number small to mid-scale combat. As far as I know EVE (and to some degree the upcoming Planetside 2) are the only games which can provide a true 500v500 match. This is what makes EVE unique, this is why many people play EVE - because simply no other game offers this experience. (And just by definition, there are at least 1000 players who like a 500v500 fight!) If EVE ever abandoned this particular feature in favor of catering to the "casual crowd", the core gamers and more importantly factions (corps, alliances...) would simply quit. This would leave EVE as being just another one of the dozens of traditional MMOs, and EVE played as a traditional MMO is really really terrible.

Arsia Elkin Sha'ha'dem Explorers 1	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:24:00 - [21] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: League of legends is just warcraft 3. A blizzard game that has been out a decade. League of Legends is just an easy version of DotA. A custom gametype in Warcraft 3.
Psychotic Monk The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective 399	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:37:00 - [22] - Quote I think the question is somewhat flawed to begin with. The question you're asking is somewhat like asking between land and sea, which is a better platform to support life and arguing that the ocean is better because it has more life and therefore all land-dwelling creatures should move to the sea. Some creatures swim, some walk, and some can do both. One has more numbers, more living mass, more complexity, larger average level of animal intelligence, and so on. This doesn't make one better. Land is simply the correct environment for a cat, and the water is the correct environment for a fish.
Essack Leadae Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:39:00 - [23] - Quote Why others online games are so popular and EvE not ? In my opinion, two reasons. I will be considered as a troll but I don't care =) : First, people hate lose. But since 2008, killboards become more important and so efficient that you don't have to post anything, your history will be updated by the others players anyways... This makes impossible to control your history and you can't opt-out. And as even if you don't care of your stats, others players will care of yours, then you can't avoid the consequences of bad statistics (mockeries, corps who will refuse you, etc.), it can impact your playstyle too and just simply, people don't like know how much they die. Killboards maintain the reputation of harsh and unforgiven game that Eve has, even if CCP did simplify the game. Second, the skill system. For me, it is good as it is, but still it is different compared to others mmos : you don't level up by your effort. Here, you have to wait... weeks... months... and so the frustration also raise as you can't play like others players, you have to do with what you can use. And if you realize that you made some errors or need another character, then you have to wait, again... Eve is not only a niche game, he is different. That means that few players will join this game instead of less annoying ones in the market, or sometimes they join but stay in empire and so annoy the "elite" who want force them to go to 0.0 =)
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 226	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:28:00 - [24] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: We can't dress in colorful neon gowns and show off our meta 13 red flamey shield converter of loathing to other people in station. ... and we cant have a pink thorax with velvet trim. yet...
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke 358	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:47:00 - [25] - Quote if you look at the total amount of monthly subscriptions paid during a games lifetime, eve ins probably second only to world of warcraft don't forget that games like warhammer online, age of conan, AION or even swtor rapidly loose subscribers in the first 6 months after launch
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 688	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:48:00 - [26] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: Blacksails wrote: Clearly, Eve is dying. Is not anoter EvE is dying post. im old player who play form 2006 ( more than 500 day online) and i adep to this fact. here is average 40k online, i wrote this post because want to know real reason why here only small amount of people compared to other online game... Popularity doesn't necessarily make a successful game. Name some other MMO's where the subscribtion numbers have steadily gained each year as opposed to fluctuating. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable.
Borisk Zeltsh Alcohlics Anonymous 18	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:48:00 - [27] - Quote qualty not quantity tho latly qualty of eve players has droped latly we have alot whiners crying for nurfs
Ana Vyr Vyral Technologies 346	Posted - 2012.10.04 22:38:00 - [28] - Quote Eve has a very steep learning curve and allows other players to abuse you in many ways. It's not for the faint of heart, and requires a long attention span. These are not universal qualities in space nerds.
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 688	Posted - 2012.10.04 22:48:00 - [29] - Quote Borisk Zeltsh wrote: qualty not quantity tho latly qualty of eve players has droped latly we have alot whiners crying for nurfs Yeah speaking of quality... Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable.
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 773	Posted - 2012.10.04 22:52:00 - [30] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: Jim Era wrote: because its space, and space is more boring than anything also interstellar dix SF themes got big amount of all kind fans, StarWars, Battlestar galactica, Star Trek, etc... it must be another reason... Probably because it's the only game around where acting like a scum and solo with alts/multiboxing is actually better rewarded than the other way around. Short story: it's not for everyone. brb

Jim Hazard Scrubfleet 9	Posted - 2012.10.04 22:57:00 - [31] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: Hi all While ago i wach some world championsship turnament in online game caled leauage of legends, and here was more than 80.000 views live that is more than average amount of people loged in eve, just a single room strem tv chanel with 80.000 people waching... but in total here is milions of views while turnament, because people can select own chanel with specific language depend country where they living. The best part, this game is not even a mmo is just game where people fight 5vs5 in old boring map, using champions like pokemons or somthing like this. Why others online games are so popular and EvE not So bigger is better ? maybe EvE offer to much large scale pvp ? maybe is to hardcore for mass ? maybe here solo and small pvp is dead ? maybe people love game with small amount of people involed to pvp than like 500vs500 with lag fest and zero fun, maybe is time to change this. Sorry for my horrible grammar. o7 EvE simply is not a game for the masses. Most people are looking for instant action in games and do not want to play a game where the most important part is planning your fights. This also makes it not very interesting for people to watch, when they do not know anything about the game. Take counterstrike for example where years ago broadcasts of international matches already did hid several 100k viewers. Its simple fast action which you can enjoy without having to actually know any complicated game mechanics. The AT simply is not interesting for people who do not know anything about EvEs game mechanics. 500vs500 man fleet fights do not really happen as often as you think. Yes in the major conflicts there are big fleet fights, but EvE still has a lot of room for small gang PvP. And I personally enjoy fleet fights.... If you do not enjoy them stay out of stuff like sov warfare and go roaming with a small gang instead. The big fleet fights are one part of the game that make eve special. No other game has ever seen way more than 1000 players fighting in a system for hours and hours reshipping over and over again and fights like that are amazing if you ask me. CCP can not really do that much about it without putting up artificial limits in the systems. As the game grows big alliances will keep fielding more and more ships. If you have more people willing to join a fight who would tell them to stay home? If you get told 3 times in a row that you are not allowed to join the fight just because there are already 100 man in the fleet i am sure you would also start getting annoyed.... TLDR: System is fine as it is, If you dont like big fleet fights stay out of them and just go out to roam in smaller fleets.
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 655	Posted - 2012.10.04 22:58:00 - [32] - Quote Borisk Zeltsh wrote: qualty not quantity tho latly qualty of eve players has droped latly we have alot whiners crying for nurfs Throw them letters at the forums and they may form words.
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 655	Posted - 2012.10.04 22:58:00 - [33] - Quote To answer the OP: Eve is very much a niche game. There is nothing wrong with that.
Kinet Frog Steamers 13	Posted - 2012.10.04 23:45:00 - [34] - Quote Not many games are designed to allow other players to screw you over at any moment. There are not legions of scammers on other MMO auctionhouses making them totally useless like Eves contract system. You can not be ganked in most games unless you flag yourself for PVP. In Eve, a person can bump your ship and keep you from mining or warping, blow up your mining barge just for giggles and even pay others to make your gameplay a nightmare. Eve is a cruel mistress, she will tell you she loves you while taking your wallet and kicking you in the nuts. Sadly, most of the world gaming population does not appreciate that. Luckily, I do.
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 688	Posted - 2012.10.05 03:25:00 - [35] - Quote Kinet wrote: Eve is a cruel mistress, she will tell you she loves you while taking your wallet and kicking you in the nuts. EVE is BDSM with out a safe word. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 589	Posted - 2012.10.05 03:29:00 - [36] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: Kinet wrote: Eve is a cruel mistress, she will tell you she loves you while taking your wallet and kicking you in the nuts. EVE is BDSM with out a safe word. It doesn't have the orgasm either. From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha
ugh zug 80	Posted - 2012.10.05 03:35:00 - [37] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: Hi all While ago i wach some world championsship turnament in online game caled leauage of legends, and here was more than 80.000 views live that is more than average amount of people loged in eve, just a single room strem tv chanel with 80.000 people waching... but in total here is milions of views while turnament, because people can select own chanel with specific language depend country where they living. The best part, this game is not even a mmo is just game where people fight 5vs5 in old boring map, using champions like pokemons or somthing like this. Why others online games are so popular and EvE not So bigger is better ? maybe EvE offer to much large scale pvp ? maybe is to hardcore for mass ? maybe here solo and small pvp is dead ? maybe people love game with small amount of people involed to pvp than like 500vs500 with lag fest and zero fun, maybe is time to change this. Sorry for my horrible grammar. o7 league of legends is not an MMO /thread Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil. Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil.
King Rothgar Black Watch Guard Gl0rious Bastards 311	Posted - 2012.10.05 03:53:00 - [38] - Quote Eve is radically different from most other games these days. It is a hardcore MMO in a world of softcore casual ones like WoW and guild wars. Hardcore games always have smaller player bases. Another game I play is Rise of Flight, it's a hardcore combat flight sim (basically have to know how to fly the real thing to play it). I think it's player base is around 5k maybe. But it's been going strong with regular addons since 2009 with no end in sight. You can see that type of thing in all the different genres. CoD and BF may dominate the sales in the FPS market, but ArmA 2 has had a longer shelf life than 3-4 incarnations of either one of those put together. Once again, smaller player base but far more committed to the game. And thus they buy more stuff for it to keep it going. As for eve specifically, what drives most people away is the skill point system as it prevents power leveling over the course of a weekend as well as meaningful consequences to poor performance. If you die in guild wars, you respawn in town with all your stuff. The only thing you lose is the time you spent on that particular quest. If you die in eve, you lose everything you had on you (probably). This mechanic makes combat far more exciting, but it also means it is in fact possible to "lose" the game. That simply isn't the case with any other MMO I know of. The Troll is trolling.
Kaylyis Line Ark Security Armaments LockJaw Inc. 28	Posted - 2012.10.05 07:58:00 - [39] - Quote not only that but comparatively EVE is much more attention-intensive to do right. Yeah we have AFK miners. no one cares about them. Not even me. My time playing has seen a sharp drop in number of fucks given about the topic of gankers hungering for my blood on the (now rare) occasions I don't have anything better to do than mine. The easiest way to make ISK takes a few months to train a character for. Yes, incursions. You can't spend 16 hours a day at your computer for five days and be showered with awesome. doesn't work. this is turnoff number 1. Doing Mining, Trade and Industry. In order to really see the good profits you have to be aware of what's going on around you (player aggro makes getting jumped by a 4-pack of elites in WoW seem like a damn cakewalk when yer in a covetor), and if you just mine a load and hit sell mindlessly whenever you kiss the station you're losing money. Manufacturers who don't pay attention to costs pay more to build things than they can sell it for. oh, and the most profitable way to get the raw materiel is... mine it yourself. Oh and you have to learn to play the market, train skills that dont help you pewpew, etc. This is turnoff number 2 For the people who say "** that sissy caebear , PEWPEWPEWPEWPEW!" there are consequences for failure. How many times do we routinely deal with bitchrants about "I was ganked! I got blobbed! I picked a fight and he was surrounded by cloaky bomber buddies! WAAAAAAAH!" There are consequences measured by your in-game wallet. You just lost your shiny superdeath battleship, you forgot to insure it and now all you can afford is a T1 cruiser hull and meta 3 guns with which to rebuild. Then you realize... no one cares. This is turnoff number 3. Then you have the fact that in EVE, the sympathy level of most of the players approaches ZERO, unless you ask them the right questions on how to un-moron or de-newb yourself and improve your play. The sympathy level doesn't change, but I've found most people quite willing to help if your first comment on the subject isn't a cry for the WAAAAAAAHHHmbulance. Most MMO gamers are running between the age of 13 and 27. Most of them are used to instant gratification and a brutal system shocks the sanity out of them. This is turnoff number 4. This is all the tip of the iceberg of why people don't like EVE the way they like League of Legends. Yes people voyeur watch LoL matches. No one watches EVE because if you don't know where to look you won't find anything exciting. Nobody wants to watch or hear me run numbers on whether or not a lowsec moon goo base would be worth the cost to set up or defend. I've seen city borough assembly meetings more exciting than that . But I, and everyone else, just don't care. When I talk to people about EVE, now that I've spent some time correcting early failures in skill training, planning, etc I have to preface the conversation with the simple statement that (this is important) EVE online is a MMO game for grownups.** The level of effort required is much higher, but the payout in fun or ISK or whatever is awesome. Because let's face it. What do EVE players want? It sure isn't a legendary sword found on the supermobboss that spawns once a week for you to farm. It most certainly isn't a rare-drop sabretooth tiger mount that you can show off to your guildie buddies for E-Peen and a couple hundred gold coins in the pocket. To an EVE player, a hardcore EVE player, that is pathetic. not even worth discussing on the radar. We don't want a goddamned chibi diablo vanity pet. Real EVE players want to command ships that dwarf modern warships. Real EVE players want to set up infrastructure arrays that lead to one station and then dozens cranking out fleets of warships. Real EVE players want to then take those warships out into space and kill each other with them and fight for real, tangible (within the context of the game) measurable gains. Not just battle in static battlegrounds to get epix gearz by grinding faction points for months in a manner that has no affect and meaning on the game at large. When it boils down to basics EVE players, and the pure carebears who don't brave the depths of null ore low for ANY reason don't count in this statement. I am no longer one of the Highsec only people. It's obnoxiously boring if that's all you do. Real EVE players are going to start a war. Because that's what EVE is ultimately. EVE is a big war that ranges from hot to cold, and includes everything from one on one combat to market manipulation to psychological warfare perpetrated within the game. No other game has that, and most MMO players don't have the patience to do more than quickly spam four hotkeys to launch their most potent attacks. Oh and the Highsecers who refuse to set foot into low and null have fallen victim to the psychological warfare that has been going on for YEARS in low and null. If you are convinced you can't win you've become simply one more sheep for the wolves to pick off. Giving the mining barges a bigger tank and more EHP isn't going to save them if they won't fit a tank. If they won't pay attention. Chronic Highsec can't win because they gave up fighting before they started fighting. I give it six months, tops, until some enterprising maniac figures out a way to start making highsec exhumers explode again with frightening consistency. It's one of the fascinating things about EVE players. in normal MMOs you apply a certain tactic vigorously until it works. EVE gankers will find a way. they always have. EVE is a game for grownups.
Schalac Apocalypse Reign 89	Posted - 2012.10.05 08:58:00 - [40] - Quote I would say the opposite is true and EVE is actually a quite popular game. Most MMOs that I play have may be 20-30 servers with little more than a thousand people on them maybe up to 2000 at prime time for the busiest servers and 1500 for less popular ones. The thing is we can interact with all 40000 people while other mmos you get 2000. EVE as also been aroud for almost 10 years now and is still growing and changing. Not mant MMOs can tout that tag. It has an addon coming out that is on the PS3 and is a completely different genre than the core game. Does WOW do that? No, I think EVE is doing just fine and will continue to provide fun for years to come.

Brooks Puuntai Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 832	Posted - 2012.10.05 09:12:00 - [41] - Quote Schalac wrote: Not mant MMOs can tout that tag. It has an addon coming out that is on the PS3 and is a completely different genre than the core game. Does WOW do that? No WoW doesn't do that because they are smart. Hence why they have had millions of customers across multiple games, and Blizzard is considered one of the top development companies. Though the rest of your comment is mostly true.
Krakhen Praetors of Orpheus 0	Posted - 2012.10.05 11:36:00 - [42] - Quote I play LoL but you really can't compare it with Eve. That is like comparing microwave-ready meals with a somptuously prepared 8 course diner. The first is fast and grants instant gratification for not a lot of efforts while the second takes planning and requires skills time and finess to master, if ever.
Alice Saki 8911	Posted - 2012.10.05 11:38:00 - [43] - Quote Lol... Is what I play to wind down from Eve... It's an Easy Pvp Game, good laugh and bit of fun. Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
Wacktopia Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group 264	Posted - 2012.10.05 12:19:00 - [44] - Quote Judging on how many people watch a video is difficult. EVE does not always come across well on video unless it is very well shot and edited, often requiring with narration. Some of the best game videos I have seen are EVE-related but they all share a common factor; high attention to editing and production. Part of this is down to the very hi-octane and un-arcade format of PVP. If you stop for a few seconds to try and shoot some cool video you'll probably be dead with half your corp screaming at you. Also, a lot of EVE engagements occur with your camera zoomed out so you can see what is going on around you. In contrast, other mmo's or FPS game are focused on a single character in a format that most people watching can relate to. Shooting a good video is easer too and in many of these games dying is no big deal so you can afford to stand around shooting video and not have to worry about the impact of being killed. The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures.
Nrazza Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.10.05 12:51:00 - [45] - Quote It's because eve is incredibly boring to watch and play. The only thing that saves it is being with a corp on TS3 and cracking jokes on each other. Also peek time has 40k plus peeps but everybody has atleast another alt online some people have 3-4 online and maybe more for logistics issues.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 288	Posted - 2012.10.05 13:19:00 - [46] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: Because more people don't mean a better game. I would rather EVE keep its current sub numbers forever than double it by adding LoL players. As to the "why": EVE is a niche game. It's not a game you can jump in for an evening, have some fun, and then just leave. It's not particularly fun to watch. Victories are not achieved through quick and flashy 20-minute match, they come through days, weeks, and months of strategically planned engagements. EVE caters specifically to "hardcore" gamers, generally with plenty of time to invest, and offers high-risk large group PvP experience with severe consequences. (And then I suppose the niche within a niche of various miners, "highsec players", solo PvP, and whoever else trying to convince themselves that the core principles of EVE should be compromised for their enjoyment.) Perfect summary of EVE (and the highlighted part is a perfect summary of people I dislike lol).
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 288	Posted - 2012.10.05 13:30:00 - [47] - Quote As to the OP, it's quality vs quantity. I'll take the Quality of the average EVE player over most other gamers any day of the week. I'm an old Battletech Universe fan, started playing when I was 12 (i'm 38 now), and of course Battletech spawned the "Mechwarrior" video games (like the upcoming Mechwarrior Online). Back when playing Mechwarrior 4, people would ask all the time "what can we do to get more people to play mechwarrior". Some of us would explain that MW4 would never ever get the same numbers of people like other games of the day (like Quake or Unreal Tournament ect) because while MW is a "shooter" game, it's not as much a twitch game, it's a niche game about huge walking tanks set in a rather wonky and unrealistic universe kind of like Star Wars (some mechs in Battletech have actual axes and swords, even though that wasn't a part of Mechwarrior, that's the kind of universe it is). Still some people didn't get it, or didn't like it, and rather than screw off away from Mechwarrior (which would have probably made them and everyone else happy as hell), they complained about stuff, suggested changes totally against the nature of Mechwarrior and Battletech itself and generally made arses of themselves rather than accept that the excellent niche game we loved not only wouldn't go "main stream", but SHOULDN'T even try. It's like that with EVE (eve and mechwarrior share so many traits, but that's another story lol) and it will be like that with Mechwarrior Online. Some people just can't be happy with what they have, it's in their nature.
Juliana Stinger Fight Cats Corp Against ALL Authorities 9	Posted - 2012.10.05 14:03:00 - [48] - Quote You should thank CCP for EVE as it is with minor core changes. We don't want to see Pandarian ships flying in space with Ponies just to attract more kids in to the game.
Zeran Kariashi The Scope Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.10.05 16:21:00 - [49] - Quote Because, Eve isn't for everyone. Simply put. They aren't really trying to be, either (though they do look like they might be sliding that way slowly). They have made an interesting mutli-layered game that can, due to the extreme freedom of choice involved, scare off quite a lot of people...and the griefing, scamming, and other douchebaggery scares off the inattentive, overly trusting, or hardcore carebears. Thus, there's less of the market involved, vs the other MMO's who are trying to please everyone and ultimately turning their games into crap.
Titus Black Universal Might Monkey Circus 9	Posted - 2012.10.05 17:00:00 - [50] - Quote Eve is a niche game. /thread

Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 289	Posted - 2012.10.05 17:09:00 - [51] - Quote Zeran Kariashi wrote: Because, Eve isn't for everyone. Simply put. They aren't really trying to be, either (though they do look like they might be sliding that way slowly). They have made an interesting mutli-layered game that can, due to the extreme freedom of choice involved, scare off quite a lot of people...and the griefing, scamming, and other douchebaggery scares off the inattentive, overly trusting, or hardcore carebears. Thus, there's less of the market involved, vs the other MMO's who are trying to please everyone and ultimately turning their games into crap. Very true. I can kind of see it, some people want to come home from work and just "autopilot" through a game without too much thought, or they want to escape from their mundane life as some epic here/god/king, themepark games let you do that. EVE tells you you're a worthless scrub in an easily killable ship where all your stuff dies when your ship does. It right and proper that this game has a female name, If EVE were a real woman she'd be dressed in dominatrix attire, with a whip on one and and all your money ( that you just willingly gave her) in the other. Yep, us EVE players is special lol.
baltec1 Bat Country 2364	Posted - 2012.10.05 17:10:00 - [52] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: Jim Era wrote: because its space, and space is more boring than anything also interstellar dix SF themes got big amount of all kind fans, StarWars, Battlestar galactica, Star Trek, etc... it must be another reason... Trekies hate us.
Valari Nala Zena Perkone Caldari State 44	Posted - 2012.10.05 17:45:00 - [53] - Quote Imo, the big reasons for causing a small playerbase. It's a harsh game. PvP is not forgiving, you can't be an idiot if you wanna have fun, players will take advantage of you. PvE gets boring fast. EVE Online is a harsh game, there aren't many games around so cruel. This is what EVE Online is built on, it's about PvP, drama, it makes great stories, it makes people care. While all that makes the game unique, the other side of the coin is that is also repels a lot of people.
Led Zeppelin420 Midnight Plague 0	Posted - 2012.10.06 14:31:00 - [54] - Quote I think alot of EvEs problem is its level of complexity. You can not jump in and power level to high lvls, it takes months to have a decent char. Bu once you get into its its addicting as hell. Alot of younger people dont have the patience to sit down and take the time to get it together. Its also to slow at begining. You start playing because you see ads for huge pvp combat fleets or your friends tell you how sweet the game is, but it takes a long time to do anything fun in pvp. Sure you can get a frig and some tackle gear in a day or 2 but thats only fun for so long.
T'Laar Bok 53	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:46:00 - [55] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: Why others online games are so popular and EvE not Simply we don't accept any old riff raff or other undesirables that happen to come along. Amphetimines are your friend. http://eveboard.com/pilot/T'Laar_Bok
Mars Theran Caldari Provisions Caldari State 334	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:58:00 - [56] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: Because more people don't mean a better game. I would rather EVE keep its current sub numbers forever than double it by adding LoL players. As to the "why": EVE is a niche game. It's not a game you can jump in for an evening, have some fun, and then just leave. It's not particularly fun to watch. Victories are not achieved through quick and flashy 20-minute match, they come through days, weeks, and months of strategically planned engagements. EVE caters specifically to "hardcore" gamers, generally with plenty of time to invest, and offers high-risk large group PvP experience with severe consequences. (And then I suppose the niche within a niche of various miners, "highsec players", solo PvP, and whoever else trying to convince themselves that the core principles of EVE should be compromised for their enjoyment.) Clearly an unbiased opinion. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Gaellia Bonaventure Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 878	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:00:00 - [57] - Quote Been awhile since I posted in an Eve is Dying Thread. So. Yeah. Just took care of that this morning. Now, coffee. Bring your possibles.
Mars Theran Caldari Provisions Caldari State 334	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:02:00 - [58] - Quote Valari Nala Zena wrote: Imo, the big reasons for causing a small playerbase. It's a harsh game. PvP is not forgiving, you can't be an idiot if you wanna have fun, players will take advantage of you. PvE gets boring fast. EVE Online is a harsh game, there aren't many games around so cruel. This is what EVE Online is built on, it's about PvP, drama, it makes great stories, it makes people care. While all that makes the game unique, the other side of the coin is that is also repels a lot of people. PvE is always boring. It is not dynamic, and it is repetitive. Lots of people like that though; just look at WoW. Think of how many people work on Assembly lines; in dead-end jobs with no payscale changes, consideration for inflation, and opportunity for advancement besides putting in more hours, and more hours, and more hours... Doing the same thing every 5 minutes, all day, every day. f'n boring. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Praxis Ginimic Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 44	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:11:00 - [59] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: We can't dress in colorful neon gowns and show off our meta 13 red flamey shield converter of loathing to other people in station. ... and we cant have a pink thorax with velvet trim. I SOOOOOOOO want to bump miners in a pink rax with velvet trim
Meizu Kho Kho Incorporated 15	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:31:00 - [60] - Quote It will be nigh impossible for EVE to break through as an E-sport like LOL or SC. The game is too complex so most people that watch a video about EVE don't understand what's going on. When they see a high level LOL or SC match they understand what's going on. The only way i could see it work would be in a more controlled environment, for instance, both teams get 5 rifters or ruptures and a batch of modules so they can each fit them according to their preference (tank, dmg, ecm etc) and then duke it out. Not very sandboxy i know, but a general audiance might be able to grasp what's going on because there would be far fewer variables compared to the current tournament, let alone PVP in 0.0. EVE is great for storytelling though, unfortunatly compared to a LOL or SC commentary the amount of work it takes to do those right means you can't churn out the content at a steady pace.

Lin Fatale Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.10.06 23:49:00 - [61] - Quote Part of the problem is that the opportunities to get fights are really low. And sometimes I think EVE is more a spy game than a pvp oriented game. You need a lot of time to find something else than ganks or blobs. Both is boring and nobody gets a fight out of such a situation and to be camped in is also not that funny. Eve needs more fight generators more PVP opportunities. Maybe a small starmap redesign could help here. A few more gates between the regions, so that you dont have to fly 100 jumps if your red neighbours dont wanna fight. But should not end up in more force projection, maybe use mass limits or more wh connections between 0.0 areas
Luc Chastot Moira. Villore Accords 32	Posted - 2012.10.07 01:23:00 - [62] - Quote Better question: Fun derived from causing other players' tears: EVE vs other mmos Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Monstress Flying Danger Group. 0	Posted - 2012.10.07 07:15:00 - [63] - Quote I would say it's because of EVE's darwinistic nature that drives away most people (and also the main reason I love it so much). Stupid people tend to find their way out quick.
Troxane Troxane Corp 0	Posted - 2012.10.07 07:40:00 - [64] - Quote Because maybe not everyone has an orgasm when he s ruining someone else 's day ?
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 723	Posted - 2012.10.07 08:11:00 - [65] - Quote Troxane wrote: Because maybe not everyone has an orgasm when he s ruining someone else 's day ? There's more to the game than that. Most people want a themepark game where they can happily build up wealth with no risk or a game with instant gratification. EVE is not one of those games. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable.
Olleybear I R' Carebear 123	Posted - 2012.10.07 19:02:00 - [66] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: Troxane wrote: Because maybe not everyone has an orgasm when he s ruining someone else 's day ? There's more to the game than that. Most people want a themepark game where they can happily build up wealth with no risk or a game with instant gratification. EVE is not one of those games. Zero risk theme park is definitely one of the things people like. Had a guy that played WoW like crazy try Eve after I told him about it. After 2 months or so, he quit Eve. His reason: He didnt like the real loss associated with pvp even though he had never lost anything in the game. He also didnt like how there wasnt enough to do npc wise. To understand that second part you would need to play WoW. WoW gives the player the story, tells them where to go, what they have to do. Once that part of the story is finished, the player gets sent to aother area of the world with new monsters and visuals ( oh look snow! ) and the game hand feeds them more story. The main goal the story leads you to is the Boss fight. Our missions with no point or end leave people wondering why they are doing them. Eves story is made mostly by the players. To increase subs and retain people who want a story, there would need to be a story that takes you a decent amount of time, a few months perhaps, before you get to a final Boss fight. Something dramatic like, your employer dies in the end but you vanquish the boss. Afterwards, the story would then leave you on your own in the real harsh world of Eve where you make your own story and your own decisions. Before I understood Eve, I was expecting the same hand holding story as well, thought I did something wrong when no more story was forthcoming, and was disappointed. Note: I'm not saying that is the direction Eve should take, just pointing out where the game fails against other MMO's and why people dont stay. When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
The Antiquarian Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 575	Posted - 2012.10.08 15:31:00 - [67] - Quote Only one simple solution to this problem. Make the tournament prize more competitive. More $$$ and new professional gamers will start flocking in. There is a reason why some of the Korean folks drop out of college to compete in Starcraft tournaments. These tournaments provide enough cash inflows and incentives to sustain their lifestyle. CCP just needs to host more tournaments with bigger cash prizes using third-party services (MLG and etc).
The VC's Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2012.10.08 16:02:00 - [68] - Quote The Avatar. For some people, when they play games they like to pretend the're someone else. Basic, common narcisism. It's a potent hook to get subscribers. I would posit that most eve players don't really care about avatar based play, and prefer to be themselves in control of equipment and complex systems. We may still be narcisists anyway, but that's not what drives us to play the game.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 2510	Posted - 2012.10.08 16:52:00 - [69] - Quote The Antiquarian wrote: Only one simple solution to this problem. Make the tournament prize more competitive. More $$$ and new professional gamers will start flocking in. There is a reason why some of the Korean folks drop out of college to compete in Starcraft tournaments. These tournaments provide enough cash inflows and incentives to sustain their lifestyle. CCP just needs to host more tournaments with bigger cash prizes using third-party services (MLG and etc). I believe that is the plan, the upcoming cash prize tournament is testing the waters and mechanics to do just that (or something very, very similar). Streamed matches work best when they are covering non-stop action in a relatively short time frame. In EVE the closest approximation we have to that are hosted tournaments. With that in mind, if things go well and these streamed cash tournaments start drawing a following this could actually be the best advertising avenue for CCP yet... and the cherry on top is that they will be highly entertaining for the current player base as well. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Jason Richter Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.10.08 17:32:00 - [70] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: Hi all While ago i wach some world championsship turnament in online game caled leauage of legends, and here was more than 80.000 views live that is more than average amount of people loged in eve, just a single room strem tv chanel with 80.000 people waching... but in total here is milions of views while turnament, because people can select own chanel with specific language depend country where they living. The best part, this game is not even a mmo is just game where people fight 5vs5 in old boring map, using champions like pokemons or somthing like this. Why others online games are so popular and EvE not So bigger is better ? maybe EvE offer to much large scale pvp ? maybe is to hardcore for mass ? maybe here solo and small pvp is dead ? maybe people love game with small amount of people involed to pvp than like 500vs500 with lag fest and zero fun, maybe is time to change this. Sorry for my horrible grammar. o7 The reason is actually quite simple. Most people would rather play a game where content is regulated for them. It takes a special kind of person to stick with a hardcore sandbox like this one where dying has consequences and where your fun is based on what you look for not what is handed to you.

Vertisce Soritenshi Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 1761	Posted - 2012.10.08 17:43:00 - [71] - Quote It's mostly because EVE is too difficult for the average person to play. Most people don't want to spend the kind of time and effort it takes to play EVE. Frankly I firmly believe that if CCP changed the control scheme from this point and click crap to an actual WASD or Joystick control scheme it would probably draw in more players. I keep hearing people say that using anything but point and click causes too many commands being given which lags up the system. To that I say...if other games can do it...so can EVE. Then again it was always said to be impossible to make missile launchers visible and have missiles come from the launchers instead of the center of the ship. I guess we will never see that happe...oh wait... EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX!
Holy One Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 228	Posted - 2012.10.08 17:52:00 - [72] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: It's mostly because EVE is too difficult for the average person to play. Most people don't want to spend the kind of time and effort it takes to play EVE. You can keep telling yourself that .. but in my opinion its because the game is not actually much fun. It takes too long to 'buy in', its too tedious day-to-day, it has little reward and a lot of risk and it has been creatively and politically stagnant for 2+ years. Many good reasons why people prefer to play lolbunnies with their 'friends' instead.
T'Laar Bok 53	Posted - 2012.10.08 18:37:00 - [73] - Quote A theme park sounds great! As long as its got an octopus at least half an AU in diameter. To keep the PVPs happy they can try to shoot the people out of their seats as they go whizzing past. It'll be great fun! . Amphetimines are your friend. http://eveboard.com/pilot/T'Laar_Bok
Incindir Mauser Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 40	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:40:00 - [74] - Quote Because EvE has a unique population. Those that compose forum posts in purple crayons. And those that know what those funny little bumps are for on the keyboard.
Lord Ryan True Xero 693	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:41:00 - [75] - Quote I can see 3 reason on the front page and growing. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes.
Josef Djugashvilis 661	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:47:00 - [76] - Quote Monstress wrote: I would say it's because of EVE's darwinistic nature that drives away most people (and also the main reason I love it so much). Stupid people tend to find their way out quick. I am too stoopid to even find my way out! Too old, tired and ugly to care.
Lyrrashae Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition 357	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:48:00 - [77] - Quote EVE =/= other MMOs, and Gods be thanked for this, despite its flaws, and CCP's recent ~~stupidity in listening to the carebears~~ fixes. If it ever becomes such, then that's the day it will, indeed, die. 1/10. Next! E: So what'd you lose, OP, and the rest of ur stuffs, I can has, pleez? There is a fine and proper artistry to wielding verbal scalpels, such that the crap-poster you've slashed doesn't even know they've been cut. But verbal bludgeons -- Those are just fun.

CCP Phantom C C P C C P Alliance 2281	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:04:00 - [78] - Quote Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator

Tarvos Telesto Blood Fanatics 15	Posted - 2012.10.10 01:48:00 - [79] - Quote Thank you all for extended and short constructive answers, well, looks like here meny factors... I hope we got more people in future. Cheers.


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