When it comes to player mentality you'll see that it doesn't differ that much no matter where you go. If you decide to experience the outside world you'll see the same patterns repeat and it has very little to do with the price of ships or whatever you want to attribute (we have gangs, or camps, of the new improved tech one frigates now - who run at first sight of something uncertain or challenging).

When it comes to Wormholes i think the largest issue is that WH in their initial implementation was a bit of a hackjob. The ideal behind the mechanics is fair but the devil is in the details. It created a scenario where not only mass was limited as a general principle but where the entire subgame was separated from the casual interaction of other spaces and created just that, a subgame. The mechanics of the mass limitations do not only hinder more sizable groups to move vast resources through holes, but also equally sized groups or smaller groups which means the space is not visited by outsiders as frequently as it should be.

Tactics even emerged based on keeping any interaction out (i think RnK's third video installment provide quite a good picture of what i mean). The tedium, requirements and defensive tactics keep everyone out so WH have a certain knack for choking life out of itself. We could argue wether if it's too much to ask to bring a decent prober with any gang you send out, but at the end of the day it's yet another detail out of many that simply stifle interaction.

The shame is that our developers seem content with WH as the prototype for a "game within the game", and have continued in that direction while letting the core mechanics of the WH environment fester. I always belived WH was a temporary solution and prototype for scale-interaction mechanics intended for Dominion. Though we all know that story.

Rather that whine about your T3 fleet not being able to gank someone in their PVE carrier, i would rather CCP add more features that make people want/need to fight aggressors.

The introduction of POCO's was a potentially good way to force the wormhole owner to fight you but in reality, why would anyone field a fleet to defend something that cost 100 million isk?

I like the idea of being able to upgrade a wormhole system (e.g. more sites, better PI and the ability to create a wormhole) and if CCP were to introduce this mechanic, it could be done similar to the POCO system where you anchor this new system upgrade device to a celestial (e.g. the sun). Just like to POCO's anyone could come along and attack this structure but the difference would be that this structure costs billions to construct.

Either way, something needs to be added to wormholes as, i feel, it's starting to get stale.

EE cannot blob = WH pvp Broken

"Anyone who has ever tried to kill capitals escalating knows about these problems." What?! People have become more aware and we're complaining about this?

"Recently we come up against people who wont engage us with 2x our numbers and in their hole wormhole where they can field multiple caps." Jesus... Look, the bigger you are, the more predictably suicidal an engagement with you becomes. Is there really a complaint here about a 400+ member alliance not getting good fights anymore? Was there really a doubt as to how this might have become? Do we need a metaphor to illustrate how silly this sounds?

Because there are certain alliances that all they do is kill towers. The most boring thing there is in WH space. They spend countless hours preparing for these stupid ops and then they think they are great because they could kill a tower. How often do these operations actually turn into PVP? 1 out 20 if your lucky.

You didn't actually read the OP did you?

Over a year ago I was laying the groundwork for 3 corporations in an alliance. It was going to be a hybrid of RP, PvP, and W-Piracy with incursions into K-Space. I called it the Word of Chaos Undivided and the three corps were Word Bearers of Chaos, Night Lords of Chaos, and Iron Warriors of Chaos. The three Chaos Chapters would be permawardecced between themselves and only grouping together to fight more important enemies... like N-Spacers.

I believe that the concept is solid and could have forever changed how we approached W-Space... or the Maelstrom as Warhammer calls it.

Maybe someone else can make it work?

Also, I think moon mining needs to come to W-Space. It boggles my mind when arbitrary validation is used to limit players for no good reason. The way W-Space works is all the deterrent that is needed. Keeps groups from claiming too much territory.

Also, I think moon mining needs to come to W-Space. It boggles my mind when arbitrary validation is used to limit players for no good reason. The way W-Space works is all the deterrent that is needed. Keeps groups from claiming too much territory.

love both holes equally for different reasons

Totally agree...wait what were we talking about again?

You didn't actually read the OP did you?



Kalel, sometimes you say intelligent things, but this was not one of those times.

I really don't think anyone actually wants to blob, but most people prefer winning enough that they'll do it. If we could break up the big alliances and especially the coalitions, I think people would have a lot more fun. Unfortunately there's little motivation to do that. Why start a new corp or alliance when you can just join one.

Sandslinger made a good point that variety is good but if certain wormholes are distinctly better it will probably worsen the consolidation problem. Lack of population isn't the problem because I'd bet we have more people playing in wormholes than ever before. The problem is that people keep merging and just about everyone who posted in this thread has participated in that. We're all crapping in our own sandbox.

Who the hell wants to have to blob for pvp?

Talocan Lost apparently ;)

Over a year ago I was laying the groundwork for 3 corporations in an alliance. It was going to be a hybrid of RP, PvP, and W-Piracy with incursions into K-Space. I called it the Word of Chaos Undivided and the three corps were Word Bearers of Chaos, Night Lords of Chaos, and Iron Warriors of Chaos. The three Chaos Chapters would be permawardecced between themselves and only grouping together to fight more important enemies... like N-Spacers.

I believe that the concept is solid and could have forever changed how we approached W-Space... or the Maelstrom as Warhammer calls it.

Maybe someone else can make it work?

Also, I think moon mining needs to come to W-Space. It boggles my mind when arbitrary validation is used to limit players for no good reason. The way W-Space works is all the deterrent that is needed. Keeps groups from claiming too much territory.

[quote=Val'Dore]

also, someone please lock this thread =)

Sorry, but there's not going to be this 15 minute NPC aggro. It'll be 60 seconds... This was confirmed by CCP Bettik at Eve Vegas this weekend.

In C4's you got trolled and should just move out.

got a link to this horrible, HORRIBLE news? FFS CCP....

yeah but that's older that the retraction Hidden Fremen was citing...