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Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
141
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Posted - 2012.10.11 03:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why are hybrids so hard to balance? From what I can see is that its a weapons systems that has shared by 2 races that have completely different war philosophy.
Gallente is come close up and melt you with blasters. Caldari is to stay far away and wear you down.
Railguns are too weak for Gallente and Blasters are too short for Caldari.
I think we should completely separate the weapon systems of Gallente and Caldari, the two races broken apart and have been at war with each other.
Therefore their weapon technologies should have diverged to a point where neither system works with the other races.
Gallente should have invented their own long range turrets, while Caldari should have done the same for their shorter range.
MY PROPOSAL:
Gallente should ditch the railguns and get particle accelerators, which work in similar concept with blasters, but still pack a punch at longer ranges.
Caldari should ditch blasters and get coil or gauss guns, which are similar to railguns, but pack more punch in exchange for range.
This will make balancing weapon systems and races much easier. |
Xolve
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
1156
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Posted - 2012.10.11 03:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's based on in-game lore, sorry you don't understand the game you play.
Also- your idea is ******** and should have probably been posted to and made fun of in 'Features & Ideas'.
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
324
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Posted - 2012.10.11 03:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Torps are shared by Caldari and Minny but you don't seem to be advocating splitting those. |
Cede Forster
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
112
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Posted - 2012.10.11 03:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
why is this on GD? Why is this not moved to proposals yet, where it can die like all other proposals? |
Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
141
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Posted - 2012.10.11 03:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:Torps are shared by Caldari and Minny but you don't seem to be advocating splitting those.
Only a few ships share torps between Caldari and Minny, but Gallente and Caldari are stuck with each other's weapons for the majority of their shipline.
Gallente uses greedy Caldari Railguns in order to hit beyond blaster range.
Caldari uses fruity Gallente Blasters in order to fight up close.
If you balance hybrids as a whole for one race, you adversely affect another. |
Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
141
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Posted - 2012.10.11 03:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Minmatar and Amarr have their own turret systems, while Gallente and Caldari have to share one.
Blaster don't work well with caldari in general and railguns don't work well with gallente in general. |
Cede Forster
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
112
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Posted - 2012.10.11 03:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
ah crap, this will be another: Hey make everything freaking same.
Yes, EVE has things that are not perfectly symmetrical. That is the point of the game, to not be always symmetrical - comparable - identical. There are four weapon systems and four races, why not make it ... one for each - because that makes it ... symetrical and everything and it needs to be symmetrical because --
yes, i am freaking listening, why again does it need to be symmetrical weapon distributions?
Screw this "balance things by making it the same", i really hate this |
Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
141
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Posted - 2012.10.11 04:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cede Forster wrote:Blah Blah Blah Winmatar Autocannons and Awesome Lasers is fine, we should ignore hybrids.
Such a brilliant way of balancing, keeping weapon systems crappy for years is great balancing and management of the game.
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Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
91
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Posted - 2012.10.11 04:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:Blaster don't work well with caldari in general. That is news to me. And if that is so how come so many people shield fit gal boats for blaster use?
And a list of good blaster cal ships.
Merlin, Harpy
Cormorant
Moa
Ferox, Naga
Rokh |
Kaanchana
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
173
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Posted - 2012.10.11 05:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:Why are hybrids so hard to balance? From what I can see is that its a weapons systems that has shared by 2 races that have completely different war philosophy.
Gallente is come close up and melt you with blasters. Caldari is to stay far away and wear you down.
Railguns are too weak for Gallente and Blasters are too short for Caldari.
I think we should completely separate the weapon systems of Gallente and Caldari, the two races broken apart and have been at war with each other.
Therefore their weapon technologies should have diverged to a point where neither system works with the other races.
Gallente should have invented their own long range turrets, while Caldari should have done the same for their shorter range.
MY PROPOSAL:
Gallente should ditch the railguns and get particle accelerators, which work in similar concept with blasters, but still pack a punch at longer ranges.
Caldari should ditch blasters and get coil or gauss guns, which are similar to railguns, but pack more punch in exchange for range.
This will make balancing weapon systems and races much easier.
How long are you playing eve? Do you know, there is a reason caldari and gallante share weapon systems. Always do your research before you come up with 'brilliant' ideas OP.
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Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
273
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Posted - 2012.10.11 05:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
What about drones.
wis is nothing but bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other. |
ugh zug
84
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Posted - 2012.10.11 05:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
wataf go back to hiding under a rock and never come out again.
Want me to shut up?-á
Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense.
Remove content from my post, 15 bil.
Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
135
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Posted - 2012.10.11 05:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wait what, sacrifice range for dmg? I can't put my finger on it, but I'm pretty sure that hybrid exists already.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior.
"You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here." |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
959
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Posted - 2012.10.11 05:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Actually OP... the problem lies mostly with railguns and not so much blasters.
Railguns deal anemic damage on both Caldari and Gallente ships unless they have damage bonus to boost them a bit... and even then other long range weapon systems are still better (including HMLs after the nerf).
On the other hand, blasters work very well on Caldari ships. Some good examples would be the "Blarpy" (Blaster Harpy), "Blaga" (Blaster Naga), and "Blokh" (Blaster Rokh). The last two examples can deal considerable DPS at 20+km away using Null.
As for Gallente... if you look closely at many Thorax, Brutix, and Talos fits you'll see that there is a trend of using shields rather than armor... which, in a way, means that people see an inherent advantage to using a defense system that is, lorewise, Caldari over the armor systems "favored" by the Gallente.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2012.10.11 05:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Parsee789 wrote:Blaster don't work well with caldari in general. That is news to me. And if that is so how come so many people shield fit gal boats for blaster use? And a list of good blaster cal ships. Merlin, Harpy Cormorant Moa Ferox, Naga Rokh
Which are almost every Caldari hybrid platform out there (and Moa, Cormorant and Ferox are going to recieve some attention in Retribution, if anything). So is there really a problem?
Also, if you need to do something to hybrids, you can tinker specifically with rails (average forum opinion: medium rails and maybe even medium long-range turrets in general). As far as I can tell, blasters are good enough with right ships (which is a lot of ships tbh), not to mention that if CCP are indeed going to tweak armor rigs and it's not just a rumor, then blasters will become even better in practice. |
Irya Boone
Escadron leader
56
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Posted - 2012.10.11 06:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
it's most the gallente Line they have to balance not only the guns how can a buffer tank can come close when you have a mass like a domi or megathron you can't so you swithc to sniper mode .... and here the laugh begin ...
Improve C2 class WH More anos more signs ...RENAME null sec system With the name Of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It xill be awesome-á |
D4mane
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.10.11 06:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Khanid hulls are missile boats, so amarr share split weapons too. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1814
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Posted - 2012.10.11 06:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hybrids suck.
I put pulse lasers loaded with scorch on my Myrm and friggin' OWN!
Mr Epeen 
There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks |
Darth Nupis
The Fraternal Association of Killer Squibs
0
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Posted - 2012.10.11 06:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Oh the old EVE semi-profession of the snarky forumite....Brilliant! |
Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
251
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Posted - 2012.10.11 06:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
The hulls are unique. Maybe it's just me but I'd opt for a blaster Vulture over an Astarte any day. 15 km optimals on a Blaster boat allows for a lot of turkey shooting while the Astarte is burning to range.
I do agree they have far too many similarities in some respects. Fed and Cal Navy Anti Matter are identical in every way. You would have thought they would have at the very least flipped out base shield and armor to reflect what they were trying to shed off the enemy. |
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usrevenge
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2012.10.11 06:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
they should flip hybrid/ projectile weapon stats so it makes sense
minmitar would have either zomg range, or zomg up close damage, which goes well with their weapon philosophy of fast and high damage.
gallente ( now with the stats of projectiles) would have the better range and different ammo types.
caldari would be able to have their range and alpha as they would have the new arty, or they could fly like they fly blaster boats now ( but with moar range and a bit less dps)
this would also make a bit more sense, as the amarr EW is tracking disrupters and it would effect minmitar a lot more, right now it is weird that all minmitar ships seem to counter amarr ships, i mean t2 minni ships have HUGE resist against EM thermal. |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
347
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Posted - 2012.10.11 07:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'll just leave this here 
[Moa, Blaster Moa]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Acolyte TD-300 x3
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Xolve
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
1159
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ocih wrote:The hulls are unique. Maybe it's just me but I'd opt for a blaster Vulture over an Astarte any day. 15 km optimals on a Blaster boat allows for a lot of turkey shooting while the Astarte is burning to range.
I too compare a combat oriented command ship to a gang link command ship in terms of DPS and expect even damage output/performance.
Mars Theran wrote:Acolyte TD-300 x3
:getout:
usrevenge wrote:they should flip hybrid/ projectile weapon stats so it makes sense
minmatar would have either zomg range, or zomg up close damage, which goes well with their weapon philosophy of fast and high damage.
Minmatar weapon systems are fine, Artillery does indeed have 'zomg range' and Autocannons do indeed have 'zomg up close damage' and a very, very respectable rate of fire.
usrevenge wrote:this would also make a bit more sense, as the Amarr EW is tracking disrupters and it would affect Minmatar a lot more, right now it is weird that all Minmatar ships seem to counter Amarr ships, i mean T2 Min ships have HUGE resist against EM thermal.
One can only imagine, with so much based on 'game lore' why exactly the Minmatar T2 ships have a high resist profile against EM/Thermal, when their natural enemy (Amarr) deal exclusively EM/Thermal damage. They do however have a rather high Kinetic hole, but I'm sure that has nothing to do with the Gallente Federations primary weapon system (i.e. Blasters) doing primarily Kinetic damage, I mean who shoots their own allies, right?
The whole premise behind this thread is uninformed, unimaginative and stupid.
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2450
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Posted - 2012.10.11 19:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
I use rails on my megathrons and they do well enough. |
Robert De'Arneth
104
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Posted - 2012.10.11 19:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Having spent quite sometime getting my rail gun skills up, i find that idea sucks butt. I like my rail guns, and they work fine for me. Maybe you should stick to your day job, man I hope it is not game developer.
You have not lived until you have been Wated by Jim!!-á-á |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
701
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Posted - 2012.10.11 20:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'll just leave this here, to shed some light on why the two races share some traits in their weapons.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Lt. Commander
Community Communication Liasions (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Fatal Ascension
1489
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Posted - 2012.10.11 20:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:Minmatar and Amarr have their own turret systems, while Gallente and Caldari have to share one.
Blaster don't work well with caldari in general and railguns don't work well with gallente in general.
Actually, Gallente get a different weapon system known as drones.
Meanwhile, Caldari get a different weapon system known as missiles.
Those two groups don't really overlap, so this is not broken and your point is really quite moot.
Fact: Drone Damage Augmenters are a waste on nearly every Caldari boat.
Fact: Ballistic Control Systems are a waste on nearly every Gallente boat.
As I said, it's not broken.
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller.
-Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
792
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Posted - 2012.10.11 20:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:Why are hybrids so hard to balance? From what I can see is that its a weapons systems that has shared by 2 races that have completely different war philosophy.
Gallente is come close up and melt you with blasters. Caldari is to stay far away and wear you down.
Railguns are too weak for Gallente and Blasters are too short for Caldari.
I think we should completely separate the weapon systems of Gallente and Caldari, the two races broken apart and have been at war with each other.
Therefore their weapon technologies should have diverged to a point where neither system works with the other races.
Gallente should have invented their own long range turrets, while Caldari should have done the same for their shorter range.
MY PROPOSAL:
Gallente should ditch the railguns and get particle accelerators, which work in similar concept with blasters, but still pack a punch at longer ranges.
Caldari should ditch blasters and get coil or gauss guns, which are similar to railguns, but pack more punch in exchange for range.
This will make balancing weapon systems and races much easier.
The concept of one short range weapon system+long range systems is old, very old and will never evolve from this, thus keeping the nonsense of so many different hybrid ammo range and caldari/gallente bonus is another point getting some sense on caldari hulls (faster/shield) but none on gallente (slow bricks/shortest range for an extra theoretical dmg almost impossible to ever apply).
Don't worry, another strap will be put in to gallente hulls at some point and make us feel they got better, but the core problem will never ever change because slowest+shortest range weapon+lol tanking system are the idiots combo witch makes the game interesting from some Nobel prices around, point of view.
Those are getting prettier, so they die prettier than ever. It's always better than die simply. 
brb |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
792
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 20:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Parsee789 wrote:Minmatar and Amarr have their own turret systems, while Gallente and Caldari have to share one.
Blaster don't work well with caldari in general and railguns don't work well with gallente in general. Actually, Gallente get a different weapon system known as drones. Meanwhile, Caldari get a different weapon system known as missiles.
Yes because I can't use a large drone bay like gallente, and I can surely not use 5drones like gallente 
Ho wait ...
Quote:Those two groups don't really overlap, so this is not broken and your point is really quite moot.
Indeed, for things to be interesting there must always be tools for fools and tools for smart. Pick your side, fly ASB...ho wait !
Quote:Fact: Drone Damage Augmenters are a waste on nearly every Caldari boat.
Fact: Ballistic Control Systems are a waste on nearly every Gallente boat.
As I said, it's not broken.
Seems gilas and rattlesnakes disagree with you, they can use both, and they're even lolpownzor shield fitted olol asb
But you're right in the end, I'm tired of fighting megathrons fleets, tired of deimos fleets, burn out of drones fleets !!
I'd like to fly drakes, zealots, canes, lokis, guardians, scimis, maelstroms, rokhs (hey! lolblaster ship !!) and that kind of funky stuff.
brb |
Xolve
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
1161
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 20:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Seems gilas and rattlesnakes disagree with you, they can use both, and they're even lolpownzor shield fitted olol asb
I believe you missed the point entirely (even if it was a bad point), but I would hardly consider cross-faction ships as the norm to validate weapon systems/module usage. However, the staggering amount of T1 ammo I guess can be confusing for newbros and bads alike, but then again- People will continue to fit their ships in the worst way possible for the forseeable future, so why rob ourselves of the opportunity to laugh at their misfortunes?
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
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