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TomB	Posted - 2005.03.18 10:46:00 - [1] I have removed Warp Scramblers & Stasis webifiers from any kind of usability changes besides duration (they are now both set to 5 second duration, capacitor need per second should not change) & the propulsion skill now giving less capacitor need per skill level. A pile of ships have had modified sensor strengths updated to the Test Server this morning. This is now in fine tuning and might get changed before the patch from what you can currently see. These are the modules, skills & ships that will be affected by the Electronic Warfare changes in upcoming patch: Module modifications & addons ECM Target Jammers Target Jamming: Each module will act as an individual, using the attack strength as a possibility of jamming any kind of ship. Range: They now have Optimal Range and Fall Off Range, example of Multispectral ECM II with EW Optimal skill level 4 = 50KM, with Scorpion & Caldari Battleship skill level 4 = 91KM. Racial Jammers operate further than Multispectrals, same skills with Racial ECM II = 136KM. Other: Capacitor Need for the Racial ECM has been increased, Multispectral ECM on the other hand reduced. Multispectral still use more cap and have less range. Duration of both modules set to 20 seconds. ECM Burst Target Jamming: Use the same method as the targeted ECM Jammers, but only brakes the lock instead of keeping the target jammed for a set period. Other: Capacitor Need has been increased a lot, some ships might not have enough capacitor to activate this module. Remote Sensor Dampeners Sensor Dampening: Reduced base efficiency but trainable to previous level with new skill. Range: Now have Optimal & Fall Off Range, Optimal Range is not as high as ECM Target Jammers, but Fall Off is extremely high, example of RSD II with level 4 EW range skill: 42KM Optimal - 84KM Fall Off. Other: Duration has been shortened, capacitor needed per second to operate has been increased to a level where it might not be operational for longer period of time by ships with small capacitor & slow recharge rate. Tracking Disruptor Tracking Disruption: Tracking disruption has been decreased but Optimal disruption increased, both trainable to higher efficienct with new skill. Range: Uses similar Optimal & Fall Off ranges as ECM Target Jammers. Other: Duration shortened, capacitor need per sec stays the same. ECCM Sensor Strength: Base strength increased from 3 to 4 and will get higher with named drops & tech II. Target Painter Target Painting: New module that increases Signature Radius of target. Range: Uses similar Optimal & Fall Off ranges to Remote Sensor Dampeners Skill modifications & addon Electronic Warfare Old: Increased Duration New: Decreased Capacitor Need Sensor Linking Old: Increased Duration New: Decreased Capacitor Need Tracking Disruption Old: Increased Duration New: Decreased Capacitor Need Astrometrics - not really a part of the EW but linked with Covert Ops (see below) Old: None New: Faster Scan Probe scanning Target Painting NEW New: Decreased Capacitor Need EW Fall Off NEW New: Increased Fall Off of ECM, RSD, TD & TP EW Optimal Range NEW New: Increased Optimal Range of ECM, RSD, TD & TP ECM Strength NEW New: Increased efficiency of ECM Remote Sensor Dampener Strength NEW New: Increased efficiency of RSD Tracking Disruption Strength NEW New: Increased efficiency of TD Target Painting Strength NEW New: Increased efficiency of TP Ship modifications & addons Crucifier Old: CPU Bonus New: Tracking Disruption efficiency Bonus Other: Base CPU & Target Range increased Griffin Old: CPU Bonus New: ECM Optimal Range Bonus Other: Base CPU & Target Range increased Maulus Old: CPU Bonus New: Remote Sensor Dampener efficiency Bonus Other: Base CPU & Target Range increased Vigil Old: Targeting Range Bonus New: Target Painter efficiency Bonus Other: Base CPU & Target Range increased Celestis Old: Hybrid Tracking Bonus New: Remote Sensor Dampener efficiency Bonus Other: Removed Low Slot, addon of Medium Slot, Target Range increased Blackbird Old: ECM Capacitor Need Bonus New: ECM Optimal Range Bonus Other: Base Target Range increased Scorpion Old: Missile Velocity Bonus New: ECM Optimal Range Bonus Other: Base Target Range increased Covert Ops New: Faster Scan Probe scanning 2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything.
Vaarmoth Malinigvious	Posted - 2005.03.18 10:51:00 - [2] Edited by: Vaarmoth Malinigvious on 18/03/2005 10:52:53 The people will love you once again, TomB. edit: oh, and please tell me I didnt just waste 15 days training propulsion jamming lvl 5
Swindley	Posted - 2005.03.18 11:10:00 - [3] Sounds great! Love the webber changes:D No more annoying 24 second wait for webber to finish:D
lordmix	Posted - 2005.03.18 11:12:00 - [4] nice work by the look off it. let see how it goes on TQ now
ElectroSister4	Posted - 2005.03.18 11:13:00 - [5] This looks cool -- "Its better to burn out then to fade away" - Kurgan
Ebedar	Posted - 2005.03.18 11:15:00 - [6] My life in pictures:
Gilad Pellaeon	Posted - 2005.03.18 11:15:00 - [7] Originally by: Vaarmoth Malinigvious oh, and please tell me I didnt just waste 15 days training propulsion jamming lvl 5 I learnt a long time ago, not to train anything until it was released on TQ. I hope the Propulsion Jamming skill change comes in though.... but I will see it when I believe it. :P ..and the changes are looking good so far Tomb. :D _ KIA Corp - Mercenaries for Hire Contemptuous arrogance FREE with every contract
Scorpyn	Posted - 2005.03.18 11:18:00 - [8] Just wanted to point out another thread about the Covert Ops ship bonus, where some suggestions were made about alternative bonuses. The ones suggested so far are listed here : Bonuses that can get better with higher skills * Faster scans * Greater range on scanprobes * Accuracy (closer warp-in) <- might be bad in some cases though, since some prefer long range fighting * More than 1 AU up/down * Scan probe launcher CPU usage reduction * Reload time reduction * Launch time reduction Static bonuses (no bonus for higher skill level) * Spheric scans instead of the 1au limit up/down * Ability to scan while cloaked * Ability to launch scanprobes while cloaked * Scan probes invisible on scanner I'm not saying that the speed bonus is bad, in fact I like it a lot. I just wanted to point out that there are more options since I don't know whether you have already considered them or not.
Torvus Jay	Posted - 2005.03.18 11:22:00 - [9] Edited by: Torvus Jay on 18/03/2005 11:24:00 So the propulsion jamming equipment is no longer going to be chanced based. If so YAY FOR THAT. if not :( But the shortened duration on warp scrams, if they are no longer chanced based could this be put off untill after missle changes. This seriously makes missle using bships much much more immune to being held down long enough to kill. Also takes alot of fun out of tackling as you are almost assured death against a raven if you want to hold it, interceptors become marginalized against stuff like vigils. The reason being that with such a short duration there is 0 room to maneuver. Also means the entirety of skill involved in tackling is click > orbit 5km, click > activate mwd, click activate web and warp scram... your ship is out of control. ______________ Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye.
Ebedar	Posted - 2005.03.18 11:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Torvus Jay Edited by: Torvus Jay on 18/03/2005 11:24:00 So the propulsion jamming equipment is no longer going to be chanced based. If so YAY FOR THAT. if not :( But the shortened duration on warp scrams, if they are no longer chanced based could this be put off untill after missle changes. This seriously makes missle using bships much much more immune to being held down long enough to kill. Also takes alot of fun out of tackling as you are almost assured death against a raven if you want to hold it, interceptors become marginalized against stuff like vigils. The reason being that with such a short duration there is 0 room to maneuver. Also means the entirety of skill involved in tackling is click > orbit 5km, click > activate mwd, click activate web and warp scram... your ship is out of control. It seems that the shortened duration is offset by reduced cap use (which can be reduced further with skills). Haven't had a chance to test it, but that seems to be the way it works on Sisi - with everything else working as it currently does on TQ. Actually looks pretty good (cap wise) for tackling frigs. My life in pictures:
Thanit	Posted - 2005.03.18 11:44:00 - [11] Its not about cap but about moving into 7.5km range for activation and out again to avoid the missiles but be back in 7.5km again in time for the new cycle. with a 5 sec cycle this becomes impossible.
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2005.03.18 11:48:00 - [12] TomB, Originally by: TomB I have removed Warp Scramblers & Stasis webifiers from any kind of usability changes besides duration (they are now both set to 5 second duration, capacitor need per second should not change) & the propulsion skill now giving less capacitor need per skill level. Mind giving the reason for why you removed the warp scramblers and stasis webbers from the ew changes? For more tweaking ? If for more tweaking, good (most peeps wouldn't agree I guess ). Originally by: TomB A pile of ships have had modified sensor strengths updated to the Test Server this morning. This is now in fine tuning and might get changed before the patch from what you can currently see. Perhaps the Bellicose could be looked at as well? Perhaps change it to a ew support ship or perhaps make it like the Breacher's big brother? Originally by: TomB ECM Strength NEW New: Increased efficiency of ECM Remote Sensor Dampener Strength NEW New: Increased efficiency of RSD Tracking Disruption Strength NEW New: Increased efficiency of TD Target Painting Strength NEW New: Increased efficiency of TP Perhaps these 4 skills could be merged into 1(like with the ew optimal & falloff skills)? Having 4 skills that have the same effect, just on different modules, feels like a waste. Originally by: TomB Ship modifications & addons snip Maybe Bellicose could be added to this list, here's my suggestion for an ew supporter Bellicose Old: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret Rate of Fire New: Target Painter efficiency Bonus(or perhaps something else) Other: removed high slot, added mid slot, target range increased some My thoughts on the matter. ------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr.
Damocles Ician	Posted - 2005.03.18 12:06:00 - [13] I can't seem to find the target painter mods... am I being thick? -------------
Ebedar	Posted - 2005.03.18 12:07:00 - [14] Originally by: Thanit Its not about cap but about moving into 7.5km range for activation and out again to avoid the missiles but be back in 7.5km again in time for the new cycle. with a 5 sec cycle this becomes impossible. You're right, I missed what he was getting at. My bad. My life in pictures:
Damocles Ician	Posted - 2005.03.18 12:24:00 - [15] Regarding "Remote Sensor Dampeners" - how does the effectiveness change between being in optimal range and bring in falloff range? Do I understand right that the percentage effect is static within optimal, but the further out into the falloff the target is the less the effect? (upto the very edge of falloff where the effect is minimal?) - Or is it a case that an RSD operating in "falloff range" only has a 50% (ie half power) effect? Or something else? -------------
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2005.03.18 12:33:00 - [16] All I can say is: n1 Great decision on webs and scrams. Mai's Idealog
Gunstar Zero	Posted - 2005.03.18 12:54:00 - [17] Looking nice - as others have said, good decision on the the webs / scrams - presume your not finished with them though? I'll have to check out the ECM again on SiSi when I get home - looks quite exciting. Whilst your fiddling with EW ships - hows about the much mooted 'Scorpion as a Rail Platform' idea? Would fit well with the EW changes.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.03.18 13:54:00 - [18] Originally by: TomB Other: Capacitor Need for the Racial ECM has been increased, Multispectral ECM on the other hand reduced. Multispectral still use more cap and have less range. Duration of both modules set to 20 seconds. WHAT?????? TomB, I BEG YOU, do NOT increase the duration of ECM Multispectrals to 20, TWENTY SECONDS????!!!! There's a reason our ecm guys didn't train up EW beyond lvl 1. PLEASE rethink this, Multispecs, as per these new changes, have decreased range and increased cap useage PLEASE reduce their duration to 5seconds.
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.03.18 14:31:00 - [19] lvl 5 EW + Propulsion Jamming ftw :) [Heterocephalus glaber]
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.03.18 14:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: TomB Other: Capacitor Need for the Racial ECM has been increased, Multispectral ECM on the other hand reduced. Multispectral still use more cap and have less range. Duration of both modules set to 20 seconds. WHAT?????? TomB, I BEG YOU, do NOT increase the duration of ECM Multispectrals to 20, TWENTY SECONDS????!!!! There's a reason our ecm guys didn't train up EW beyond lvl 1. PLEASE rethink this, Multispecs, as per these new changes, have decreased range and increased cap useage PLEASE reduce their duration to 5seconds. I think its a 20sec activation delaay to stop scorps from cyclejamming everything. Also thx for not changing the webs. ___________________________________ cough cough sniff cough cough cough burp cough
Zagum Darkfin	Posted - 2005.03.18 15:33:00 - [21] Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: TomB Other: Capacitor Need for the Racial ECM has been increased, Multispectral ECM on the other hand reduced. Multispectral still use more cap and have less range. Duration of both modules set to 20 seconds. WHAT?????? TomB, I BEG YOU, do NOT increase the duration of ECM Multispectrals to 20, TWENTY SECONDS????!!!! There's a reason our ecm guys didn't train up EW beyond lvl 1. PLEASE rethink this, Multispecs, as per these new changes, have decreased range and increased cap useage PLEASE reduce their duration to 5seconds. I think its a 20sec activation delaay to stop scorps from cyclejamming everything. Also thx for not changing the webs. With the game lag for large fleet battles, cycjamming is almost impossible to do NOW. Please have Multispecs stay at 5 seconds. With the game lag it still will be 20 seconds duration or more. Thanks for the webber/warp decision. Good move. Much love!
Aequitas Veritas	Posted - 2005.03.18 16:10:00 - [22] Kinda stupid that ECM now wont work on the "optimal" range of most fleet engagements... I mean, when fighting ATUK and Shinra in Delve and Fountain now, all they do is sit in tempests, armas, megas and apocs at 100km and fireing... Another thing is, when the scorpion now losses its offensive bonus it really will take a cm 1,5 mins to travel to its target O_O Tbh, It's should become a railgun platform and not missile with these changes... But please make sure it can use 6 guns or it will really really suck...
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.03.18 16:34:00 - [23] This is nice and all but the Scorpion now has 0 offense. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Hakera	Posted - 2005.03.18 17:42:00 - [24] TomB, can you make sure the new skills are seeded in advance of the patch if possible, so the transition is easier before everyone resorts to pure damage setups. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2005.03.18 17:44:00 - [25] how soon would we see T2 EW mods then? Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.03.18 17:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Kaeten I think its a 20sec activation delaay to stop scorps from cyclejamming everything. Also thx for not changing the webs. I'm aware of that, it is that ability I want to protect. New ECM Multispecs have: LESS range than specifics MORE cap useage LESS points on sensor. Multispectrals are FINE at 5 seconds. You have absolutely ZERO defence when setup to do this role, you make a massive sacrifice to do this force multiplier role and, imo, it should be kept.
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.03.18 18:34:00 - [27] I'd agree that multispec cycle should be shorter than 20 seconds. Considering the low chances of successful jamming and fast paced nature of combat, I'd say that multispec cycle shouldn't be more than 10 seconds. Seriously, think about it. Currently a stack of 4 multispecs may be considered a bit overpowered. Okay, so you increase requirements (nerf #1), add range limit (nerf #2), remove stacking (nerf #3), introduce chance based system with low success probability (nerf #4).. I think this would do it, no need to change cycle duration, at least not so radically. CCP frequently goes too far with nerfs, when overpowered things needed just a small adjustment. Don't make the same mistake all the time. If after those initial nerfs things still look overpowered (which I highly doubt), then you can always nerf it some more later. Small predictable steps over time are better than one giant leap into uncertainty btw, I'm glad the propulsion modules were left alone.
Namelesz	Posted - 2005.03.18 18:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Scorpyn Just wanted to point out another thread about the Covert Ops ship bonus, where some suggestions were made about alternative bonuses. The ones suggested so far are listed here : Bonuses that can get better with higher skills * Faster scans <-YES * Greater range on scanprobes <- There are already different scan range probes * Accuracy (closer warp-in) <- might be bad in some cases though, since some prefer long range fighting <- it's all dependant on the probes accuracy, not tied to ship * More than 1 AU up/down <- again, tied to probe and not ship * Scan probe launcher CPU usage reduction <- fine as it is * Reload time reduction <- could be useful * Launch time reduction <- mine launch right away . . . Static bonuses (no bonus for higher skill level) * Spheric scans instead of the 1au limit up/down <- same as I said above * Ability to scan while cloaked <- too overpowering * Ability to launch scanprobes while cloaked <- can't activate modules while cloaked * Scan probes invisible on scanner <- and then have absolutely no defense to those hiding? no way. I'm not saying that the speed bonus is bad, in fact I like it a lot. I just wanted to point out that there are more options since I don't know whether you have already considered them or not. my answers to all suggestions in bold -Namelesz "I never run away. I merely advance in the opposite direction." -Judicator "She was so dumb, the smartest thing to ever come out of her mouth was my *****."
Namelesz	Posted - 2005.03.18 18:47:00 - [29] I am liking alot of the changes so far but some have asked and we really wanna know : Originally by: TomB I have removed Warp Scramblers & Stasis webifiers from any kind of usability changes besides duration . . . does this mean no other changes now besides the duration and cap, or will we expect to see it in the near future to be changes? -Namelesz "I never run away. I merely advance in the opposite direction." -Judicator "She was so dumb, the smartest thing to ever come out of her mouth was my *****."
Deadzone	Posted - 2005.03.18 19:18:00 - [30] I don't think TomB is finished with the jammers and scrams yet but would like to hear that from him. What is going on in that head of your TomB? As for the rest of it, including the MS duration, nice work on it. I think this will be a positive change. Vice-Admiral Executive Commanding Officer Military Command Hadead Drive Yards

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