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COUGAR ONE
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Posted - 2005.04.12 23:13:00 -
[181]
Edited by: COUGAR ONE on 12/04/2005 23:20:05
 Tomb B Man what have you done to our game.
Maybe in time I will see some logic to your changes. But now this game is a game of chance. You might can jam them you might not. In Battle you can't go by well I might can jamm him I might not. You have to know what you have and waht you can do. Guessing or chancing that you can Jamm someone. Is just plain rediculous.
You have made the Scorpion obsolete in fleet battles. Then not to mention you go and even add more signal strenghts to all ships. For a scorp to be able to jamm then you would need 5 multipsecs. With the take away bonus of the shield and to have to fit 5 multispecs gives you only 3 modules left to fit for defence. That blows big time.
So much for the scorpion it will now collect dust in my hangar.
Radio Crystals. WTF have you taken a look at the damage that a Tempest does at long range. Sure there ROF is a bit slower but their damage is much greater. Was the Apoc or Amar race that uber that you nerfed its short end and long end of its firepower.
Bottom Line, your Patch blows in those departments, the other stuff for the carebears. well I think that is just swell for them. Maye I should go be a miner and have my lab and factory slots in 0.0 then I would be happy.
But as a pvp your patch blows. Bottom line in combat going by chance will get you killed
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Boldyn
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Posted - 2005.04.12 23:16:00 -
[182]
My lovely Zealot with 13 poits of radar strenght just got jammed by an IBIS with 1 multispectral jammer..
Tell me this is a bug, RIGHT NOW!
Regards
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.04.12 23:19:00 -
[183]
 Originally by: Boldyn
My lovely Zealot with 13 poits of radar strenght just got jammed by an IBIS with 1 multispectral jammer..
Tell me this is a bug, RIGHT NOW!
Regards
This is how the evil plan works. Now stealth bombers are actually usefull, since they can fire cruise FOF
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Boldyn
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Posted - 2005.04.12 23:22:00 -
[184]
oh, my bad...they changed the entire game cuss of the bombers...
I WANT THE TRUTH!!! :)
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H Zub
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Posted - 2005.04.12 23:22:00 -
[185]
I'm sorry TomB. But as long as you keep the 5 second duration on webs & scramblers it's not gonna work. You are ruining dog fights (ceptor vs ceptor), wich is the best fun you can ever get pvp wise in Eve. I truly dont understand why on earth you had to change the duration. What is your goal with the shorter duration?
Captain Morgan Society
Me parrot
Movie |
Eleska
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Posted - 2005.04.12 23:50:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Eleska on 12/04/2005 23:55:50
A few inties used to be able to run skillfull straffing runs to hold a battleship scrambled - this tactic is totally useless now :(
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Boldyn
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Posted - 2005.04.12 23:53:00 -
[187]
Man, who cares about intys. Just load up rookieships with 1 multispectral jammer and go jam a scorpion wohooooo!
Yes, it has been 30min and still no answer :)
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2005.04.13 03:51:00 -
[188]
Want more chances for frigs to LOCK DOWN BSs... simple... bring more frigates 
OMG actually adapting to the new system... what a concept
Great Frig/Cruiser ewar changes btw.
Scorpions have some wicked stats for ewar so I wouldn't count them as being trash. And they aren't just for PvP anymore so thats a plus. Though it would be nice for it to be a big moa and have some rail lovage!
tomB 4tw! ( this time )
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2005.04.13 04:00:00 -
[189]
Originally by: COUGAR ONE
Edited by: COUGAR ONE on 12/04/2005 23:20:05
Tomb B Man what have you done to our game.
Maybe in time I will see some logic to your changes. But now this game is a game of chance. You might can jam them you might not. In Battle you can't go by well I might can jamm him I might not. You have to know what you have and waht you can do. Guessing or chancing that you can Jamm someone. Is just plain rediculous.
You have made the Scorpion obsolete in fleet battles. Then not to mention you go and even add more signal strenghts to all ships. For a scorp to be able to jamm then you would need 5 multipsecs. With the take away bonus of the shield and to have to fit 5 multispecs gives you only 3 modules left to fit for defence. That blows big time.
So much for the scorpion it will now collect dust in my hangar.
Radio Crystals. WTF have you taken a look at the damage that a Tempest does at long range. Sure there ROF is a bit slower but their damage is much greater. Was the Apoc or Amar race that uber that you nerfed its short end and long end of its firepower.
Bottom Line, your Patch blows in those departments, the other stuff for the carebears. well I think that is just swell for them. Maye I should go be a miner and have my lab and factory slots in 0.0 then I would be happy.
But as a pvp your patch blows. Bottom line in combat going by chance will get you killed
Try and think in terms of the WHOLE war field... better yet try this link :
Today's Homework
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Arimas Talasko
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Posted - 2005.04.13 04:32:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Kaylona Tso
Want more chances for frigs to LOCK DOWN BSs... simple... bring more frigates
OMG actually adapting to the new system... what a concept
Great Frig/Cruiser ewar changes btw.
Scorpions have some wicked stats for ewar so I wouldn't count them as being trash. And they aren't just for PvP anymore so thats a plus. Though it would be nice for it to be a big moa and have some rail lovage!
tomB 4tw! ( this time)
...Did you read a word said ABOVE that? That is, that a couple of Newb Ships are quite able to multispec jam BS and HACs with ease? I mean, Yeah BS's should be very vulnerable to frigate groups, but this is a bit far...
Supremacy Keepin it Real |
Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2005.04.13 05:22:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Arimas Talasko
Originally by: Kaylona Tso
Want more chances for frigs to LOCK DOWN BSs... simple... bring more frigates
OMG actually adapting to the new system... what a concept
Great Frig/Cruiser ewar changes btw.
Scorpions have some wicked stats for ewar so I wouldn't count them as being trash. And they aren't just for PvP anymore so thats a plus. Though it would be nice for it to be a big moa and have some rail lovage!
tomB 4tw! ( this time)
...Did you read a word said ABOVE that? That is, that a couple of Newb Ships are quite able to multispec jam BS and HACs with ease? I mean, Yeah BS's should be very vulnerable to frigate groups, but this is a bit far...
I am a selective reader. None of you are worth 10 pages of my time. kthnxbye
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.13 06:13:00 -
[192]
Originally by: COUGAR ONE
Edited by: COUGAR ONE on 12/04/2005 23:20:05
Tomb B Man what have you done to our game.
Maybe in time I will see some logic to your changes. But now this game is a game of chance. You might can jam them you might not. In Battle you can't go by well I might can jamm him I might not. You have to know what you have and waht you can do. Guessing or chancing that you can Jamm someone. Is just plain rediculous.
You have made the Scorpion obsolete in fleet battles. Then not to mention you go and even add more signal strenghts to all ships. For a scorp to be able to jamm then you would need 5 multipsecs. With the take away bonus of the shield and to have to fit 5 multispecs gives you only 3 modules left to fit for defence. That blows big time.
So much for the scorpion it will now collect dust in my hangar.
Radio Crystals. WTF have you taken a look at the damage that a Tempest does at long range. Sure there ROF is a bit slower but their damage is much greater. Was the Apoc or Amar race that uber that you nerfed its short end and long end of its firepower.
Bottom Line, your Patch blows in those departments, the other stuff for the carebears. well I think that is just swell for them. Maye I should go be a miner and have my lab and factory slots in 0.0 then I would be happy.
But as a pvp your patch blows. Bottom line in combat going by chance will get you killed
Buhuuuuu.
Full skill multispec with 50% chance to jam a tempest... per module. Getting jammed once = you lose. Totally underpowered!!!111one :((((((((((999
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IonHammer
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Posted - 2005.04.13 06:19:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Kaylona Tso
I am a selective reader. None of you are worth 10 pages of my time. kthnxbye
pitty you are not a selective poster
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Kashre
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Posted - 2005.04.13 06:33:00 -
[194]
Having a 20-25-ish percent chance to jam a battleship when you have a 10-15km lock range and one cycle of the jammer kills your whole cap is hardly "with ease"
From what testing Ive done with EW I actually dont mind it. Befer the patch, with a hypothetical 10 gunships vs 8 gunships and 2 scorps, the scorps shut down 8 of their oponents and leave you with an effective 8vs2 battle. Not ballanced.
multispecs are WAY harder to use now, they suck cap like theres no tomorrow, and they're no longer the "I win" button, but they ARE still effective. Sounds good to me.
You're NOT going to see fleets of multispec equipped rifters pwning everything though, so I wouldnt worry about it.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.04.13 08:14:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 13/04/2005 08:14:46
Originally by: COUGAR ONE
Edited by: COUGAR ONE on 12/04/2005 23:20:05
You have made the Scorpion obsolete in fleet battles. Then not to mention you go and even add more signal strenghts to all ships. For a scorp to be able to jamm then you would need 5 multipsecs. With the take away bonus of the shield and to have to fit 5 multispecs gives you only 3 modules left to fit for defence. That blows big time.
So much for the scorpion it will now collect dust in my hangar.
Radio Crystals. WTF have you taken a look at the damage that a Tempest does at long range. Sure there ROF is a bit slower but their damage is much greater. Was the Apoc or Amar race that uber that you nerfed its short end and long end of its firepower.
Bottom Line, your Patch blows in those departments, the other stuff for the carebears. well I think that is just swell for them. Maye I should go be a miner and have my lab and factory slots in 0.0 then I would be happy.
But as a pvp your patch blows. Bottom line in combat going by chance will get you killed
1/ Multispectral jammers are not the only jammers you know...
on the test server with a paltry lvl 2 in Caldari BS I had an optimal of 113km with racial jammers, and a ECM strength of over 9. Fit two of these and you have an exceptional chance of jamming opposing BS, at long range, especially once you get your skills up.
Multispectral II's are still awesome at shorter ranges, I have been in multiple fights where I havent been able to lock the enemy at all (v.s Jamming scorp, jamming Blackbird).
2/Apocalypse does more damage over time, at a longer range using Tachyon's with Microwave L than a Tempest with 1400mm's and carbonised Lead/Nuclear/Proton. The Radio Crystal is in a league of its own for range bonus.
3/Patch rocks, if your spent time on the test server adapting to the changes you would see this.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
Constance Retribution
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Posted - 2005.04.13 10:22:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Boldyn
My lovely Zealot with 13 poits of radar strenght just got jammed by an IBIS with 1 multispectral jammer..
Tell me this is a bug, RIGHT NOW!
Regards
You obviously haven't been paying attention for the last month. No, this is not a bug. Each module has a chance to jam based on Attack v defence. EG: Attack of 5, Defence of 20 = 5/20 = 0.25 so 25% chance of successfully jamming. The dice rolled, you came up unlucky. You lose, Ibis wins.
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Bottled Brain
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:32:00 -
[197]
Very confusing...
Maybe someone can clarify this a bit. Sorry if this is covered elsewhere.
The jamming chance is jamming strength/ sensor strength, right?
But how do the jammers stack. At least I hope they do...
If every module activation is a new dice role it¦s quite pointless...and this post by the master himself wouldn¦t make much sense either
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=152054&page=1
Let¦s say I¦m in a bb with 3 amarr ecm. The jamming strength is 21.6 (18 x 1.2) and the sensor strength of the apoc is 20.
Do I have a 100% chance to jam the apoc?
If this is all wrong, please tell me how it works :)
Imo the cycle time is too long, it should be 10 sec or somethin like that.
And the scorp should have a jamming strength bonus of 10% not 5%.
It¦s a bit ridiculous when a ewar bs can jam another bs only every 20 secs and has to dedicate all its midslots to jamming devices.
The pilot could use just another ship and do a lot of damage in this 20 sec.
But if a scorp could jam 3 bs at the same time using 6 racial jammers (2 on each bs) with the 10% ship bonus it makes some sense.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:41:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Bottled Brain
Let¦s say I¦m in a bb with 3 amarr ecm. The jamming strength is 21.6 (18 x 1.2) and the sensor strength of the apoc is 20.
Holy bad maths, batman!
Ok. Jammers do NOT stack. They work independently now. So, being in your BB would mean you would have THREE jammers of strength 7.2 working against an Apoc of strength 20. Your chance of jamming is thus 36%, which is a failure chance of 64%. Now, from basic probability, your chance of failing on all three is 0.64^3 = 0.26144, or this means that you will be able to jam the Apocalypse about 74% of the time.
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Ka'Rid
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Posted - 2005.04.13 17:10:00 -
[199]
once again a PVP patch :( |
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.04.13 22:02:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Ka'Rid
once again a PVP patch :(
Right. You even tried EW against NPCs? Just earlier today, I was holding down three battleships at once while my mate in a Navy Megathron shot the hell out of them.
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Falconius Karde
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Posted - 2005.04.13 22:03:00 -
[201]
Beat me too it Darkwolf. Definitely not a PvP only patch.
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Niki Silver
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Posted - 2005.04.14 11:51:00 -
[202]
Still looking for some clarification as this patch underwent so many changes before coming to TQ. I know ECM are chance based, but I am a bit foggy on the other stuff, sensor damp, tracking disruptor, target painter? Are all 4 of them chance based or not? Just ECM? Someone please clarify - Thanks
Niki
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Taipan Stark
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Posted - 2005.04.16 17:41:00 -
[203]
I still dont understand this EW falloff, since I think it is not the same as the falloff system we know from turrets.
Lets say your optimal is 50 and falloff is 20. With turrets this means you have a reduced chance-to-hit from 30 to 50km and from 50 to 70 km, with best chance-to-hit at 50 (optimal).
I heard a rumor that for EW the falloff only works one way (longer distance) so that at any distance UNDER the optimal the chance of success is still equal to the optimal itslef, but I cannot get a clear answer on that out of either the patch notes or the beginning of this thread.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.16 19:27:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Boldyn
My lovely Zealot with 13 poits of radar strenght just got jammed by an IBIS with 1 multispectral jammer..
Tell me this is a bug, RIGHT NOW!
Regards
You can jamm a Raven with a non-caldari racial jammer in theory. There is just supposed to be a very, very small chance of that working.
I encourage everyone to swap out one mid slot for a multi-spec, it should help you survive better then a cap charger.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religous figure.
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s1mon4
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Posted - 2005.04.20 09:52:00 -
[205]
EW Fall Off *NEW*
New: Increased Fall Off of ECM, RSD, TD & TP
Why do I need to train a skill ho actually make my module worst?? Ho need to increase the fall off distance, the long range is k and normal but fall off range increased by skill not reduced is exactly opposite to the turrets this is really odd please change this à
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.04.20 09:58:00 -
[206]
I swear, we go through this merry-go-round several times a day lately :P
Falloff only applies to distances AFTER your optimal range. Closer than you optimal range, it's tracking that dominates, hence why you tend to miss more at close range.
Since jammers do not have tracking, they hit 100% of the time up to their optimal range, and then falloff effects take over from there, leading to about a 50% hit rate at a range of your optimal + falloff.
Oh, and increasing your falloff range is good, since it extends the range at which your jammers are at least partially effective.
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.04.20 10:35:00 -
[207]
Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 20/04/2005 10:35:29
Originally by: Darkwolf
Since jammers do not have tracking, they hit 100% of the time up to their optimal range, and then falloff effects take over from there, leading to about a 50% hit rate at a range of your optimal + falloff.
Oh, and increasing your falloff range is good, since it extends the range at which your jammers are at least partially effective.
...and would it therefore follow that the greater your EW falloff overall the greater the 'near-optimal falloff' range where the module is closer to 100% effectiveness than not? Thus making the skill a very big plus, if you see what I mean? (I completely understand the point about falloff and tracking in general, btw. )
Cosmo
The Star Fraction - Executor CEO: Jade Constantine |
Soraya Silvermoon
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Posted - 2005.04.26 11:03:00 -
[208]
After trying it in game one thing changed my wiev on it.. the bar that tells u how long ur enemy is jammed, that way its easier to get some tactic out of the ecm mods.
However I dont like the randomization, the range nerf on ew and I still think u tried to fix something that wasnt broke.
I`ll admit the dampeners could be on the edge of being overpowered though.
Think were done with thhis subject... How about giving us Dreadnaughts now that are overpowered in some way? That way we get to play around and ccp can have a lot of fun nerfing it =D
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Sodhammer
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Posted - 2005.05.23 01:13:00 -
[209]
First post, so be kind.
As an idea for warp scrambling, how about this:
Set a fixed time on how long it takes to warp away, say 10 seconds from activation (and you must be facing the right way and at speed). As warp scramblers lock on you, it increases this time. WCS's could improve this time (still no better then 10 secs). This way you could always effect a ship, but no more of this one frigate being able to hold a badly fitted ship forever until help arrives.
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Semkhet
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Posted - 2005.06.03 18:03:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Semkhet on 03/06/2005 18:04:54
I can't find any logic nor pertinence behind the concept of the proposed changes to ECM.
EVE is a futuristic space based game. Therefore, some aspects of the game like warping, mwd and shields may be implemented using the dev's fantasy because there is no real alternative. But for other things, let's face it, out of EVE, there's the real world. And in the real world, you already have all the knowledge related to ECM/ECCM systems. By no means should EVE faithfully implement those, but respecting basic scientific principles isn't too much asking.
And what are these principles ? That the performance of ECM/ECCM systems is based on deterministic physical electronic properties of emitters/receivers working with electromagnetic radiations. Nothing more, nothing less, and except solar storms or electronically charged particle clouds, no randomness whatsoever.
1) Against an unprotected target (= no sensor backup), or a target who doesen't have the correct ECCM at disposal, you only miss your ECM if your device blows up at activation. Now, where did u ever see a device functioning 25% of the time ? Not to speak about the utility to rely on something who will fail you 75% of the time).
For those who do mickey mouse statistics, when using 4 devices, 4x 25% = 4 SEPARATE occurrences where you have 75% chances to miss. In other words, even if the success is fairly distributed, you will still fail 3/4 of the time per single device activation. Now who tells you that chances are fairly distributed ? Not even the dev's can if they use a well designed pseudo-random number generator. And if they can, this means that the generator is more pseudo than random. Nothing may prevent you to fail even when loading 4 jammers, whose icon btw should be replaced by a dice pic if we want to remain coherent...
2) When a succesfull interaction on the same wavelength between ECM and ECCM takes place, it is the strongest device that wins. The signal strength is related to emission power, and causes a linear power drain. There is no need to relate the efficiency of the electronics to the size of the ship, but a relation to the powergrid, the cpu and cap consumption certainly should be established.
Going further, randomness in EVE should be limited to the fact that you don't know the setup of your opponent's ship nor its amount of accumulated skill points, and technically the turrets tracking limitations and maybe missiles who should'n hit all the time. That's already enough, and very realistic. Why ? Because EVE pretends to attract intelligent players. Now intelligent players don't like to depend of randomness, except maybe when playing strip-poker.
So, if you devs want to systematically turn EVE into a dice game, well, after all, it's your product. But don't forget that the reason why EVE is still around is because the game makes enough money. Now I sincerely doubt that an increasingly random game will attract or retain faithful players who look for complex entertainment.
Finally, do you analyse the pragmatic impact these nerfes cause to players ? Like it or not, because EVE is supposedly based on skills development, each time a player decides to learn a given skill, you are making money because it lengthens the game life-span from the player's perspective. Some skills may take many weeks to reach a decent level. I know you don't like to hear it, but 4 weeks = 1 month subscription also...
Therefore by downgrading ALREADY ADQUIRED skills, and introducing new ones to get the same previous efficiency in a given aspect of the game, are you aware that this means that you show no respect for the time and money players have spent on that matter ?
Now, this maybe is of little meaning for kiddies playing this game, but giving to mature players the impression they are simply wasting their real life ressources is certainly not the best way to assure a bright future to your business.
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