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Gallente Ice Interdiction Resumes

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9885	Posted - 2012.10.15 07:04:00 - [1] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: I thought that with the miner buff, these ships were supposed to be more or less ungankable? No, just unprofitable to gank. And they are. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9885	Posted - 2012.10.15 16:20:00 - [2] - Quote Tarassse wrote: Do note that whether their mackinaw is tanked or not, it still dies to 2 catalysts in 0.6. Not really, no. Or rather, if they do, I'm really interested in your 1k DPS Cats because I could use someGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9894	Posted - 2012.10.16 07:41:00 - [3] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: A profit might be possible. Consider this: gank every miner except your own, be the only one mining the resource. Profit? That's profit from market manipulation, not ganking. The ganks are still hugely unprofitable. Touval Lysander wrote: I'll argue this till the cows come home. Then you'll be incorrect until the cows come home. It doesn't matter how you acquired stuff GÇö when you lose them, you've been burdened by a non-zero cost because you end up with less value than you had before. If you mine enough minerals to build a destroyer, you now sit on ~1M ISK worth of minerals. You now have three options: you can rclick-trash them, you can sell them, you can refine and add value to them by building a destroyer out of them. If you rclick-trash them, your assets have lost 1M ISK in value. If you sell them, you replace the mineral value by ISK value. If you build a destroyer out of them, you lose 1M ISK worth of materials and get 1.1M ISK worth of destroyer. You now have three options again: you can destroy that destroyer. You can sell it. Or you can refine it by building a dictor out of it. If you destroy it, your assets have lost 1.1M ISK in value. If you sell it, you replace the ship value by ISK value. And if you refine it, you lose 1,1M ISK worth of destroyer (and 37M ISK of other materials) and gain 31M ISK worth of interdictor, thereby reducing your asset value by 7M ISK. Oh, and you could of course always just fly around in it, at which point your assets remain the same. At no point was anything free. At every point, you could incur a loss (including the attempt to add value to the destroyer by T2-ifying it). Opportunity costs are still costs, even if you never see a single ISK come or go, and the notion that just because you own stuff, it has no value (which is essentially what you're saying) is, shall we say, flawed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9894	Posted - 2012.10.16 08:04:00 - [4] - Quote Melikor Tissant wrote: And to be honest, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand the specific gallente ice ganking. The caldari ice cost more because of all the caldari high-sec towers for research. Won't that be more profitable to gank and sell? Gallente towers are better for gathering and manipulating moon goo and gallente ice is one of the main sources of the products used to jump around gallente capshipsGÇª and those are quite popular. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9895	Posted - 2012.10.16 08:27:00 - [5] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Perhaps the miners also felt that they were pointing out - imbalances. That would be a hypothesis. The problem is that it's immediately falsified by the fact that they couldn't point any imbalances out. Refusing to fit their ships to make the problem the go away is not a balance problem GÇö it's piloting error. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9895	Posted - 2012.10.16 09:24:00 - [6] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: I do not agree. Value is an intangible. What is given - in exchange - is tangible. GÇªand that's your problem. It means you don't understand the concept of opportunity cost, and makes you completely miscalculate your costs and assets. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9968	Posted - 2012.10.17 17:28:00 - [7] - Quote Herr Hammer Draken wrote: Let me state this again for those that tend to spread misinformation. A max yield fit Mack can be ganked in high sec by a single cat destroyer profitably. A 1k DPS destroyer would be quite costly to employ in a suicide gank, so no, not really. Or, wellGÇª yes, if you want to spread misinformation, saying that they can be ganked is a good one to start with. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9983	Posted - 2012.10.18 09:17:00 - [8] - Quote Herr Hammer Draken wrote: Nope it only takes 600dps to kill a max yield Mack in high sec. SoGÇª how much damage would said destroyer be able to deliver in, say, 20 seconds? I sure hope it's more than 20GÇô25kGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9983	Posted - 2012.10.18 09:54:00 - [9] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: This Mackinaw was killed by 2 Catalysts. The Mackinaw took a total of 8326 damage. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14907709 So two, not one, and we're looking at a historically inaccurate measurement of HP rather than EHP and end up ~20% short of full HP. That would give us a guesstimated EHP of maybe 16-18k, which would explain why two of them were needed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 9983	Posted - 2012.10.18 11:07:00 - [10] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: I don't know, man. All I know is that Effective HP are not actual HP. And that the killmail says total damage taken. If that's not what actually happened, then boo on the killmail system. It is probably close to what happened, although kill mails have traditionally been awful at reporting the right numbersGÇª GÇªbut even then, those GÇ£right numbersGÇ¥ aren't telling the full story. Yes, the total damage the Mack took was probably in the 9k region, because that's how much damage a low-skilled Mack can take before it explodes. The question is how much damage output is required to deliver all that damage, and that's where the EHP comes in. The kill mail simply records how many HP the ship has lost during the fight GÇö it does not record how much damage (counted in EHP) the attacker has thrown his way. For a full-yield, semi-tanked Mack, you need to deliver some 20GÇô25k damage (depending on ammo) to chip away the 10GÇô11k hit points the ship has. It's the latter number that will be reported on the kill mail; it's the former number that determines whether you'll survive any given attack. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10001	Posted - 2012.10.18 20:09:00 - [11] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: I hear putting tanking mods on hulks were a very hard task back then. To be fair, neither existed, so I would have been really surprised if it weren't awfully difficult. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10028	Posted - 2012.10.19 16:52:00 - [12] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Alright, I'm outta here. Same stupid yammering arguement as it was 2 1/2 yrs ago when I started playing. It's ALL just a bunch of extremists on both sides. Maybe if you stopped comparing people who fail to take precautions that would have saved them to genocide, people would stop thinking f you as an extremist. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.

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