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get rid of the highend minerals

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FireAnt	Posted - 2005.03.21 23:21:00 - [1] the level four agent missions should have the highend minerals taken out of their loot. even on drone missions. this will make it where 0.0 is needed again and everyone and their mother is not a billionair.
Hydroponica	Posted - 2005.03.21 23:28:00 - [2] I have to agree their. What do we miners work towards? What is the ultimate goal of a miner? To mine rare ore, ofcourse. We put tons of SP into industry and mining to be able to do this. These SP's don't allow us to jump in a BS and start killing things for named loot and such, why should a fighter training his fighting skills also be able to obtain rare mins even easier then us miners? They shouldn't have the best of both worlds.... ***********************************
w0rmy	Posted - 2005.03.21 23:32:00 - [3] I love getting the high end ores in loot on those drone missions!! But I do agree, it shouldnt be there.
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2005.03.21 23:33:00 - [4] what a whine empire lv4's overly generous, yes, 5mil of mins for completing a largeish drone mission, seems fair based on the bountys and loot of every other mission it may come as a suprise to you, but not everyone gives a dam about industry, it doesnt mean they cant make money __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2005.03.21 23:35:00 - [5] Not that I have real experience of lv 4 missions (only been doing them for 2 days) but from what I can see you can earn tons more cash in 0.0 but at the risk involved of course. The down side is that it appears to me that the agent stuff (level 4) is just too much of a safe bet. There needs to be more missions with scrambling NPCs, etc. IMHO. BTW, CCP, when are we going to see an NPC actually launch a drone as a weapon against us ? -- Intergalactic Teeth Pullers "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Kunming	Posted - 2005.03.21 23:49:00 - [6] The rewards of lvl 4 missions in empire are just rediculus, minerals, T2 components, lots of ISK from bounty and reward, very good loot drops... well I'm sure CCP is aware of the problem, just wonder how long it will take before they realise its a serious one! Intercepting since BETA
FireAnt	Posted - 2005.03.21 23:56:00 - [7] level 4 missions make more money than anything in the game for the tme spent easily. and they have some of the lowest risk to attain it. level 4 missions can easily done solo and to have a good part of the game(mining) basically not needed anymore is just dumb because fighters dont want to mine or haul. the game needs more content not less. and this is getting out of hand when people can do a drone missions and have half of a bs needs in mega and zy.
Lig Lira	Posted - 2005.03.22 00:15:00 - [8] what's up with your line spacing? Anyway, I thought CCP wanted people to move out of empire space. They seem to have made it more attractive in a way. Which PA character are you? That's no flying saucer, that's my ass!
Hydroponica	Posted - 2005.03.22 00:21:00 - [9] Edited by: Hydroponica on 22/03/2005 00:39:15 Originally by: DJTheBaron what a whine empire lv4's overly generous, yes, 5mil of mins for completing a largeish drone mission, seems fair based on the bountys and loot of every other mission it may come as a suprise to you, but not everyone gives a dam about industry, it doesnt mean they cant make money Erm, can still make money from missions. If they took rare mins out, they could always up the bounties for the things you kill, or add better loot. At no time did I say level 4 missions should be worth less, I'm saying don't give missile spammers the riches we miners spend so much time training to acheive, but instead, should have to use that money and buy the rares ores that I brought to empire, after pirates chased me accross multiple systems of 0.0, and crashing through 2 or 3 gate camps along the way. ***********************************
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.03.22 01:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Hydroponica I have to agree their. What do we miners work towards? What is the ultimate goal of a miner? To mine rare ore, ofcourse. We put tons of SP into industry and mining to be able to do this. These SP's don't allow us to jump in a BS and start killing things for named loot and such, why should a fighter training his fighting skills also be able to obtain rare mins even easier then us miners? They shouldn't have the best of both worlds.... The minerals gained from recycle from level 4 missions is a small drop in the ocean. Sure, the drone missions got a nice yield, however, the missions itself take a long time, and then you need to spend ages to pick up the loot cans as well. The recyled alloys and loot have a little it not any at all impact on the mineral prices on the market. Its nowhere enough to feed builders with their daily needs. When you mine out in 0.0 space, whether you ninja mine or you mine with dedicated protection, its safer than do these drone missions on your own. Doing these missions solo you have no one looking over your shoulder and covering your back. All the drones got no bounties. Most of the drones are harder to kill than highend npc cruisers and require more ammo to do so. Tbh, I don't care if they remove the dropped alloys or not if they introduce bounties on the drones and the supreme drones acordingly. Wether I gain the minerals from looting or instant ISK on the account doesnt really matter. But for you poor miners out there, who slave in the belts of deep 0.0 space, fighting the crokite and bisot roids in the atempt to feed your starving wife and kids. When will we see Zydrine at 1024 isk again? Zydrine for what? 4800-5000+ a unit these days seems like a hell of a pay increase from what it started out with. Empire dwellers always had to put up with this, not much use complain about prices as long as you can't do much about it right? If players just play EVE for the reason of getting richer and richer and.... In stead of having fun, and do whatever they feel like doing, then maybe you play it for the wrong reasons. What is the going price tag for having fun doing PVP these days? Is it unfair that some player that spend 10 hours a day get richer fast than someone who spend 2 hours a day playing? Can you compare the powergamers vs the casual gamers when it comes to riches? Will nerfing things affect more the one than the other? You adapt and go with it, or find something else to play, no matter how much you whine on the forums, the devs can't just go about fix things to adopt to your prefered game style. We the players need to adopt to the changes of the game. Before Shiva hit, I spent hours at end in 0.0 chaining spawns. Heck, sometimes you could end up chain dual spawns because of grid glitches in the asteroid belts. When done the belt could have houndreds of loot cans spread out. Made houndreds of millions from rare cargo expanders alone. After Shiva, the introduction of NPC bs's, bugged spawns and tons of players getting wacked out in 0.0 by npc's, there was a major scream on the forums too. I was ****ed back then as well as the "way of living" I had been used to had changed. Figured it was time to do something else and went back to empire, started production and agent running (r&d agents). Sometimes when I feel bored I dip back into 0.0 and roams the belts for rating. The added thrills of maybe run into some pvp is there as well, but not something I necessary worry stiff about. The loot gained from 0.0 rating and loot gained from missions in empire cant even compare. The best thing I ever get in Empire is a local hull cargo expander now and then. But not like they drop daily. I also got this out of loot doing level 3 agent missions. I think its more a question about for a long time some players had it so much better than the rest, and when some sort of status quo appear you become miserable because you aint that special anylonger Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Tribunal	Posted - 2005.03.22 01:20:00 - [11] Originally by: FireAnt the level four agent missions should have the highend minerals taken out of their loot. even on drone missions. this will make it where 0.0 is needed again and everyone and their mother is not a billionair. These billions are just rolling in from the mineral drops in missions!
Lorth	Posted - 2005.03.22 01:27:00 - [12] I agree with this idea. If only for the reason that it will make 0.0 nessasary to be in. Right now, a buy order in rens for example will bring you in all the high end minerals you need, and then some. Remove the high end drops and you'll see more people wanting to go into 0.0.
MutationZ	Posted - 2005.03.22 01:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Not that I have real experience of lv 4 missions (only been doing them for 2 days) but from what I can see you can earn tons more cash in 0.0 but at the risk involved of course. The down side is that it appears to me that the agent stuff (level 4) is just too much of a safe bet. There needs to be more missions with scrambling NPCs, etc. IMHO. BTW, CCP, when are we going to see an NPC actually launch a drone as a weapon against us ? Try to talk about subjects you know about. NPC's web AND scramble. Perhaps you should do a few missions before you become an authority. On topic. I like the minerals
FireAnt	Posted - 2005.03.22 01:28:00 - [14] you dont have to mine, or purchase mega and zy from people if you are getting boat loads of it from missions. hell take it out of all empire loot drops. then see the demand for miners and the need for 0.0 increase.
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.03.22 01:29:00 - [15] Originally by: MutationZ Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Not that I have real experience of lv 4 missions (only been doing them for 2 days) but from what I can see you can earn tons more cash in 0.0 but at the risk involved of course. The down side is that it appears to me that the agent stuff (level 4) is just too much of a safe bet. There needs to be more missions with scrambling NPCs, etc. IMHO. BTW, CCP, when are we going to see an NPC actually launch a drone as a weapon against us ? Try to talk about subjects you know about. NPC's web AND scramble. Perhaps you should do a few missions before you become an authority. On topic. I like the minerals I know for a fact that I didn't imagine those 10 interceptors at one location last night while doing a mission Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.03.22 01:33:00 - [16] Originally by: FireAnt you dont have to mine, or purchase mega and zy from people if you are getting boat loads of it from missions. hell take it out of all empire loot drops. then see the demand for miners and the need for 0.0 increase. I have factories running just about day and night constant. I'm in no way self-supplied with minerals just because I do level 4 missions. I pay through the nose to some toon in 0.0 for the minerals I need in the day to day production. Sorry the "boat loads" I get from missions hardly cover any of it. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
FireAnt	Posted - 2005.03.22 01:42:00 - [17] so you are saying that mission mega and zy should be able to run your factorys day and night. you even running them at all is the problem. you sit and do level 4 missions with very little risk make cash and mega and zy to partially run your factories. this just proves my point more. take mega and zy out of empire and prices will all go up and maybe soak up this inflation.
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.03.22 01:50:00 - [18] Originally by: FireAnt so you are saying that mission mega and zy should be able to run your factorys day and night. you even running them at all is the problem. you sit and do level 4 missions with very little risk make cash and mega and zy to partially run your factories. this just proves my point more. take mega and zy out of empire and prices will all go up and maybe soak up this inflation. Man, you got dirt in your ears (eyes), or what? I said its not enough, to do so. Thats why I buy big amounts of minerals each week. Ranging from low end to high end. I never can be self-supplied with minerals from missions, not even if I did play 23/7. And why should I be? The minerals gained from missions have a very little impact on the market at all when you measure up the big picture. There will always be a need for miners both in Empire and 0.0 to supply the minerals required for production. I lost about 200 mill the other night losing a ship, so much for your little risk hu? Oh and Im sorry to disapoint you baby, but prices of zydrine and mega goes up and down regardless of whatever drops in Empire through loot from missions. Prices deppends on what being mined out in ---> 0.0 what kind of roids that is the flavour of the week. Noticed the prices of Megacyte lately? Its because there is more megacyte being supplied than Zydrine because flavour of the month isn't crokite atm Get a friggin clue or if you got enough isk I sell you one Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
FireAnt	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:00:00 - [19] you shouldnt get any high end minerals from empire, and you should have to pay some guy who had miners on in 0.0 space. then hauled the ore to station. then hauled that stuff through the blockaids to get it to sell to you. not sit in empire and lose your ship to a npc because you couldnt handle it. 200million loss is alot more common if you make a living in 0.0 . hence the reason you pay a guy for that service.
Sorja	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:07:00 - [20] Missions are much more dangerous than 0.0 hunting. I browse the boards or read a book while ratting, never could I do that in a mission. Unfortunately, running from belt to belt isn't funny, rare spawns are too rare and chaining... yawns So I do missions for cash because they are more entertaining, but I'm not sure I earn more than ratting. I find named siege launchers, railguns and cap rechargers while ratting that have some value. The only risk being bringing them down to Empire. If we had more chances to find a rare spawn in 0.0 and better spawns (with more reprocessing plants and factories to build ammo) I'm not sure I'd run missions anymore. Well, missions give nice ships though
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:10:00 - [21] Originally by: FireAnt you shouldnt get any high end minerals from empire, and you should have to pay some guy who had miners on in 0.0 space. then hauled the ore to station. then hauled that stuff through the blockaids to get it to sell to you. not sit in empire and lose your ship to a npc because you couldnt handle it. 200million loss is alot more common if you make a living in 0.0 . hence the reason you pay a guy for that service. You dont get it do you..... I buy (as in this case; Exchange ISK vs Minerals). Whether I do missions or not. Actually I buy more high end minerals these days than I used too. Why? Because the demand for ships and certain modules are higher now than before. Why? Because more is lost in Empire due to missions that what it used to be. And I only posted about my loss because you claimed it was risk free, which it isn't. So are you posting with an alt or what? Seeing you are in a 13 sized "privately owned" r&d corp. From corp info seems to be dealing in bpc's. Your highest agent is level 3 non "kill" agents. So what are you basing your claims on? Your massive experience on? I bet your corp is active in 0.0 mining with poor results or what? Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
FireAnt	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:13:00 - [22] so you are saying that sitting in a bs with no gun and only miners is less dangerous doing missions. oh yeah i forgot you can get podded now doing level four missions coming out of them carrying your high end minerals. the reason you can do the forums and what not while npc is that you are staying in one place you are not flying around. and speed in missions is the key.
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:21:00 - [23] Originally by: FireAnt so you are saying that sitting in a bs with no gun and only miners is less dangerous doing missions. oh yeah i forgot you can get podded now doing level four missions coming out of them carrying your high end minerals. the reason you can do the forums and what not while npc is that you are staying in one place you are not flying around. and speed in missions is the key. Speed in missions is the key??. Done any DS missions lately have you Some of the longer missions can easy take up from 1.5 to 2 hours time. If you want to pick up the loot afterwards (which is a lot of cap but worth recycle to cover ammo costs), add another hour. When you mine in 0.0 you either ninja mine for a hastly retreat, or you got dedicated escort for protecting the op. Mining "properly" in 0.0 carries less risk than do level 4 missions. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
FireAnt	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:22:00 - [24] for one who cares who i post with. second of all my corp does no deep space mining. we used to but there is no point in doing it anymore. there is a higher need for minerals in empire not because people are losing their ships in empire doing missions they are losing them alot more due to empire wars going on. and you insane to think that when a person can do a level four mission and get half of what is needed in mega and zy that it is a drop in the bucket you are wrong. when everyone is doing them there is no need for 0.0 . look at the map where is everyone? they are doing level four missions. dont be so ignorant to think that it is just a drop inthe bucket.
FireAnt	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:29:00 - [25] are you serious? dude have you ever flown though hed when it is camped? or hell even when it is not camped. and now you are adding people to my little mining party. now add people to the level 4 missions with you and they go alot faster also. and still not much chance unless you are in a war of getting pk right? what are implants going for these days? oh yeah level four missions are really scary. hell you ship is insured. so you lose alittle but by the time you have mined, refined, and hauled with no bounty from npc the agent missions are paying way to much.
Jags	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:31:00 - [26] dont agree with the nerfing of high ends dropping in loot from drones. I do not make that much from it TBH , it covers my torps costs and ships that gt blown up trying to get that 6th level on Angel Extravaganza (btw any help on that appreciated as we cant do it too many ships at once ) Anyway , unless you are getting loads of these in a row the minerals while nice aint too much for the time taken to get them. Maybe a solution is to reduce their frequency as was done with Mordus and Blockade. But with 44 suposed new mission types in the next patch this may solve everything
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:34:00 - [27] Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 22/03/2005 02:35:22 Originally by: FireAnt when everyone is doing them there is no need for 0.0 . look at the map where is everyone? they are doing level four missions. dont be so ignorant to think that it is just a drop inthe bucket. Everyone? Really? All the subscribers of EVE doing level 4 missions? Tell you what, its still a drop in the ocean. You say there is a higher need for minerals in Empire, still you dont mine high end in 0.0 as there is a higher need for it in Empire? Higher demand -> higher prices. Or are you mining low end minerals in Empire for less pay out of the kindness of your hart, goodwill in mankind, charity and all that just for the purpose of supply a need? ps! Learn how to quote when you reply to messages. It looks silly when you dont Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
FireAnt	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:39:00 - [28] we dont do anykind of mining, no point in it. we do level four missions. and yeah damn near everyone except the pvpers are doing these mission. in reality these missions would hurt my corp, but these missions are hurting the game and if you cannot see that then you are blind.
Killer Gandry	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:39:00 - [29] Uhm it's not only the minerals that you get from alloys. Ever tried to get a faction ship from ratkilling in 0.0? If you run misions in Empire enough you can get your hands on a multi billion factionship. So compared to 0.0 mining and rathunting the whole mission thing has been set too easy because a load of people don't only do them solo but even make it a sport to finish them faster each time. Lvl 4 missions were intended to be group missions, but due to the fact that CCP miscalculated in player abilities to do them the missions are too easy. You get plenty of loot to scrap, just ask a corp newbee to loot for you. You get a chance on loads of factionstuff and even ships that sell for billions. LvL 4 missions are more profitable then rathunting in 0.0 or mining in 0.0. Anyone stating it isn't so should just see howmuch time it takes to mine and rathunt in 0.0 to make 2 to 3 bill and howmuch time it takes to get the same amount in lvl 4 missions. Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.03.22 02:40:00 - [30] Originally by: FireAnt are you serious? dude have you ever flown though hed when it is camped? or hell even when it is not camped. and now you are adding people to my little mining party. now add people to the level 4 missions with you and they go alot faster also. and still not much chance unless you are in a war of getting pk right? what are implants going for these days? oh yeah level four missions are really scary. hell you ship is insured. so you lose alittle but by the time you have mined, refined, and hauled with no bounty from npc the agent missions are paying way to much. So you are saying you are mining in 0.0 without protection, or setup for ninja mining? As well as not use instant bookmarks for travling through high risk camped places? Oh and implants? I havent recieved an implants from missions in months. I found a +3 in a can after a mission short after exodus, but after that nothing. Implants grown rare, less supply -> higher prices. My ship is insured so lose a little? Yeah the houndreds of millions worth of modules (supplied from 0.0 raters), isn't worth anything of course when get lost. Insured and all Here is a clue for you. Get a level 4 "kil" agent, do some missions, get some experience. Then tell how easy, risk free and cotton candy floss everything is. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php

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