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Nihn Lemai
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Posted - 2005.03.22 17:11:00 -
[1]
Hehe... how many of you got upset when you just read that topic? This is like... the tenth topic on this subject?
I really just dont like it... the best way to stay alive in combat is to shutdown the application? I mean... its a bit ridiculous. Better ingame option, anyone?
I havent really bothered reading all these threads with the same name as mine... Ive been aware of the problem but Ive trusted CCP to handle it just fine. They usually do. But my patience is kinda streched now.
Any devblogs, forumposts, news or anything where a dev or mod have spoken about these matters?
Anyone got a good idea about what to do? I think the same thing everytime... just make the ships NOT warp away on application shutdown. Tada! Problem solved. I cant see anyway this interfere with the game as it is now. Perhaps maybe when the program isnt supposed to shutdown and it does anyway. Maybe then it feels good to know that your ship isnt going to get destroyed.
Am I starting a disscusion? Am I seeking answers? I dont know... maybe Im just veting some steam...
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.03.22 17:22:00 -
[2]
There's a hell of a lot more than ten topics on the subject. :) It's been an issue ever since people started killing each other in EVE. It's tough, what do you do? You can't just leave their ships there forever when they log out or lose connection.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Grut
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Posted - 2005.03.22 17:23:00 -
[3]
the probablem isnt the tactic... ships dont warp off if scrammed now, the problems that logging in an alt makes your ship disappear instantly this has been justly whined about for ages but ccp dont seem to want to nerf it for some reason
Mostly harmless |
Phades
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Posted - 2005.03.22 17:28:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Grut
the probablem isnt the tactic... ships dont warp off if scrammed now, the problems that logging in an alt makes your ship disappear instantly this has been justly whined about for ages but ccp dont seem to want to nerf it for some reason
So what are they going to do, prevent anyone from logging in anywhere on a particular account until X time has elapsed? That was really lame in some other games, where your could get stuck in game and effectivly locking you out of it. In extreeme cases, it would require for the player to wait for the server to get reset and usually GM to intervene.
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Ulfar
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Posted - 2005.03.22 17:32:00 -
[5]
Easy solution to that is to allow the player to relog with the same character straight away. You will just appear where you left off or in a pod.
A timer could be set to 4 or 5 mins this way it makes the tactic null and void and isn't that much of an inconvenience. You could just go and make yourself a cup of tea.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.03.22 17:33:00 -
[6]
Other games make you wait 30 seconds with no movement or actions before you're logged out. Why not here? Say force people to cut their engines for 30 seconds before a logoff will take (or be docked). Otherwise disconnecting will make your character stick around for one or two minutes.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Damiez
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Posted - 2005.03.22 17:54:00 -
[7]
I thought that in combat when you log there is a delay before the ship warps away. 30 seconds to 2 minutes.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.03.22 19:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Damiez
I thought that in combat when you log there is a delay before the ship warps away. 30 seconds to 2 minutes.
There's none, except for the time it takes your ship to align in a random direction and get up to speed to warp.
Then, two minutes after disconnect, it dissapears.
If scrambled, it wont warp off, but will still dissapear after two minutes.
An unallowed misuse of mechanics that involves logging out and back in again immediately on an alt will make your ship dissapear isntantly however, although some GM's keep saying they fixed that. If it could be proven that someone uses that (frapsing the fight could), I don't see any other action open to a gm then a warning to the player using it. It was illegal to begin with, GM's simply don't believe it still is possible.
Simplest solution to the whole thing would be to increase that 2 minutes to somewhere between 7 and 15 minutes. Make it enough time to be found with probes when warping away or to be killed when scrambled. That should drastically reduce logging out in combat or as replacement for safespotting (those weren't nerfed for no reason after all).
I know a lot of players like to push for complete ship persistency, but that is not realistic. It is no option to ccp, so it will never happen. I happen to agree with CCP there. But that does not mean that nothing needs to be changed.
Oveur already announced a decrease in probing delay and a probing bonus on covops. These might bring half the solution already. What we'd need on top of that is longer logout timer and shared probe interface in gangs (makeing it possible to decrease probing time more by having up to three ship doing it together).
Anyway, it's not the first subject no, but one that imo is served well with some repetition.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Chakka
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Posted - 2005.03.22 19:25:00 -
[9]
I too would really like CCP to look at this
Hopefully a 15 minute persistancy can be implemented fairly easily.
Personally, I would also like some kind of penalty implemented for players that log in space, such as all high modules being switched off when you log back in.
This would counter the dodgy en-masse log-in tactics currently being used by groups of gankers who communicate using TS.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.03.22 19:39:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/03/2005 19:42:36
REALLY simple fix, people
You cannot login to another character on the account WHILE YOU ARE STILL IN SPACE.
So max 2 mins (of course, see my rants about NOT letting people who are warp scrambled escape that way!)
And Rod Blaine? That'd mean I'd only ever log at a station because they'd be guarenteed ways to find my ship if I had to leave suddenly (which, thanks to RL, I sometimes have to do), which means I'd never leave Empire systems with stations. I don't mind losing a ship to combat, I DO mind losing it because I have to go and help someone IRL.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Demarcus
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Posted - 2005.03.22 19:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Winterblink
Other games make you wait 30 seconds with no movement or actions before you're logged out. Why not here? Say force people to cut their engines for 30 seconds before a logoff will take (or be docked). Otherwise disconnecting will make your character stick around for one or two minutes.
Three reasons why that won't happen.
1)It would work
2)It makes sense
3)It wouldn't be difficult to change
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You are all worthless, and weak.
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ChironV
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Posted - 2005.03.22 20:47:00 -
[12]
If an account drops carrier there is the lag involved as the transport protocol tries to recover, then the servers try to recover connection on the application layer then lastly there is whatever Eve has set as its timeout.
If they want to solve it they should simply set the time out so that if no contact has been recieved from the remote station, the ship will turn invisible or invulnerable for 20 min. This should give ample time for a user to re-establish connection, re-authenticate and log back to thier ship. If not, after 20 min the ship becomes destroyable or capturable.
End to problem. Even a 56ker can re-establish connection in 20 min.
If it is a transport layer problem then the ship should remain invisible until the player returns.
If the servers crash and take out the application then no worries because everyone is down.
________________________________________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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anter
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Posted - 2005.03.22 21:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/03/2005 19:42:36
REALLY simple fix, people
You cannot login to another character on the account WHILE YOU ARE STILL IN SPACE.
Wouldn't fix anything.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.03.22 21:03:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/03/2005 21:03:33
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/03/2005 19:42:36
REALLY simple fix, people
You cannot login to another character on the account WHILE YOU ARE STILL IN SPACE.
So max 2 mins (of course, see my rants about NOT letting people who are warp scrambled escape that way!)
And Rod Blaine? That'd mean I'd only ever log at a station because they'd be guarenteed ways to find my ship if I had to leave suddenly (which, thanks to RL, I sometimes have to do), which means I'd never leave Empire systems with stations. I don't mind losing a ship to combat, I DO mind losing it because I have to go and help someone IRL.
Well, tbh a 10 minute timer wouldn't stop me from logging off in 0.0 outside of stations. A penalty involving having all high slots offline would have more chance of doig that to me.
If you are alone in a system and log off at a decent safespot, noone will find your ship. If someone is hoever already looking for you and your gang and you decide to log off en masse, they all of a sudden have a chance of inding you, but only because they know where you are and that you just logged off.
Leaving suddenly while in a system with hostiles in it and logging of should have risks. Even tho in most situations they'd still be neglible with a 10-15 minute timer.
After all, to find a single ship at a decent safe inside of 10 minutes with just one prober around is pretty damn hard, even if you already know the shiptype.
And as long as you're not the only hostile around, any force using mroe then one prober will be concentrating on the rest of your gang, not just you.
But yes, there is an increase of risk. Which I'm quite willing to take if that will deal with mass logoffs and combat logoffs. It'll just mean you either fit a cloak or be more carefull when logging.
As to the no-alt logging in within 2 mins after disconnecting, that would help too yes, just not if the problem is more then the alt login trick. Like when you've got an apoc target jammed and scrambled with a few inties, or when a hostile fleet goes safe and logs to avoid confrontation etc.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Selena 001
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Posted - 2005.03.22 21:15:00 -
[15]
I log casue I dont like to sit and watch fireworks... It's a simple as that.
If you cant kill my ship before it warps off (and yes... my ship is a BARGE) then you dont deserve the kill... hell, you dont deserve to be flying a blasted ship. Can I assume your moaning cause u were denied a gank, or a splattered mining BS? I mean, people wudn't log in consentual PvP now whud they   .
___________
*I only have 5 months left of 'knowing at all'... I had better put it to good use* |
Phades
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Posted - 2005.03.22 21:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ulfar
Easy solution to that is to allow the player to relog with the same character straight away. You will just appear where you left off or in a pod.
A timer could be set to 4 or 5 mins this way it makes the tactic null and void and isn't that much of an inconvenience. You could just go and make yourself a cup of tea.
The problem with that is when the timer gets bugged in total time lapsed or if it gets linked to another player instead.
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Hastrabull
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Posted - 2005.03.22 21:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Demarcus
Originally by: Winterblink
Other games make you wait 30 seconds with no movement or actions before you're logged out. Why not here? Say force people to cut their engines for 30 seconds before a logoff will take (or be docked). Otherwise disconnecting will make your character stick around for one or two minutes.
Three reasons why that won't happen.
1)It would work
2)It makes sense
3)It wouldn't be difficult to change
I have this little X in right upper corner of window. How would you stop me from pressing this?
This solution is not good.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.03.22 21:46:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/03/2005 21:46:51
Originally by: Selena 001
I log casue I dont like to sit and watch fireworks... It's a simple as that.
If you cant kill my ship before it warps off (and yes... my ship is a BARGE) then you dont deserve the kill... hell, you dont deserve to be flying a blasted ship. Can I assume your moaning cause u were denied a gank, or a splattered mining BS? I mean, people wudn't log in consentual PvP now whud they .
Wrong.
Logging off has only once saved someone I was targeting, and he didnt log when i had him, I just found his ship before it dissapeared and didnt get to kill it in time.
I myself have never logged out in combat yet, and never will. It's the prime example of where gaming morale in Eve is sliding towards not being fun anymore.
Aside from that, I dont like logging off because it's a get out of jail free card, is one of the main reasons for ganking, and because if left unsolved will simply evolve to the standard tactic to avoid losing anything, like you seem to be using it.
Logging off is only not an exploit because CCP can't handle dealing with the consequences of officially calling it one. They cant determine crash from click, and as such cant determine misuse. So, only solution left is making logging off less of a nobrainer tactic.
We already have gone from everyone and his mother condemning logging off in combat to cowards like you that use it to turn Eve into your personal pvp free game. Let the morals slide more and we get a game in which shooting someone with less then 20:1 numbers is useless to even contemplate.
You see what I'm getting at ? Logging off is fleeing from the consequence of your own stupidity or lack of knowledge. And it is fleeing by using an exploit that is only not dealt with because CCP cant determine a loser from an unlucky guy.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Selena 001
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Posted - 2005.03.22 21:57:00 -
[19]
Im sorry if my desire to keep my ship alive is ruining ur fun  but to be quite honest, "To each his own". Go find a target that wont log on you... like a consentual PvPer. Or is either the effort of finding one, or the risk to your OWN posessions stopping you? lol.
And when I mine in 'low sec' and get a PvPer come in, I dont class the ensuing fight (or lack of one) to be down to a stupid mistake or lack of knowledge on my part. Hes looking for an easy kill, and I sure aint gonna roll over and let him have it .
Sorry if my Carebear tactic's dont suit you... but remember, were not all rich b*stards who live in 0.0 and can replace BS's within 5 mins.
___________
*I only have 5 months left of 'knowing at all'... I had better put it to good use* |
Dice Morgan
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Posted - 2005.03.22 22:38:00 -
[20]
The only problem here is balancing the needs of those who ose their connection through no fault of their own (servers crash, your net connection fails, it happens to all of us sometimes) who shouldn't be penalised for that versus those who use log-offs as an unfair tactic.
I don't much like pvp. I tend to dump a load of drones to keep the attacker busy and then run like hell but I've never intentionally logged off during a fight. Deliberatly logging during combat is the classic exploit.
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