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Tolanthas
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:12:00 -
[31]
It comes down to just adjusting your fittings,, I run 3 long range turrets and one short anode nuetron,, the friagte who thinks they can come in close to my Cruiser and live is in for a suprise when he gets hit for 200 damage post nerf as he tries to orbit me. People who set there ship up one dimensionally will fail its just how it is. I'm glad to see the fact other classes of ships are gonna play a more important role. There are corps with 100s of members all in cruisers or with some Battleships. I would love to see a Battleship brough down by a pack of rifters or merlins circling at close range because the person in the Battleship thought he was invulnerable to the smaller ships.
There is a reason to have fleets,, each ship has diff roles use them people. Balance your attack groups and stop crying about something that has affected everyone the same.
Its not like CCP pointed a finger and said.. Ok we want your ship to be destroyed.. Its a Game guys and girls,, Play it or dont but please stop crying about every like fix or nerf or whatever it is.
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Jay Gatsby
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:13:00 -
[32]
LOL - Can't dodge a laser from a light-year away? You have a YEAR to get out of the way. That's what a light year IS. The distance that light travels in one year. Lasers emit light. Learn some basic physics, or at least do some research.
Light travels at just under 300,000 km/s in a vacuum. So yes, in a close quarter battle (i.e. within Eve) lasers should hit almost instantly. You'd better be a damn good shot though.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:26:00 -
[33]
"Sure maybe a Dreadnaught Battleship wouldn't be able to hit a guy in a raft with it's main guns.
But then, anything that the guy in the raft could mount would simply bounce off ot the Battleship without even scratching it."
Well, the raft is equivalent of the pod -- i don't think the guy in the egg can blow up your battleship, can they?
On the other hand, a plane carrying a torpedo isn't much bigger than the said raft, yet a good number of them can kill even the biggest battleship as long as it's caught without assistance -- that's exactly how Yamato, japanese (and world) biggest battleship of the WWII was sunk.
Perhaps m0o has problem with adapting to the new tactics because no 'self-respecting'
power gamer wants to be that SOL guy in the frigate providing cover for the team battleships?..
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Hardin
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:53:00 -
[34]
I think the closest thing to a battleship in EVE would be an aircraft carrier in today's navy.
They have an amazing punch and attacking potential...but at the same time are extremely vulnerable if something gets up close.
That is why aircraft carriers normally have a whole fleet of ships around them protecting them from a variety of smaller things such as fast attack/torpedo boats (MTBs), submarines, missile attacks, mines and air attacks.
To be honest a well equipped battleship with the right mix of weaponry shouldn't even have a problem with destroyers.
Even in World War II a a destroyer steaming straight at a battleships was considered a pretty suicidal thing to do...as most battleships also had pretty effective secondary armaments that could still track and sink a destroyer - and even before that, the destroyer had spend a lot of time simply getting to the battleship while under the fire of the main guns.
However the tactic was used as naval commanders would use the destroyer as there was a chance that in the heat of battle (particularly if the battleship was already engaging other enemy capital ships) then the destroyer could slip through and unleash a few torpedos which could potentially sink the battleship or at least force it into an urgent change of course.
In WW1 in the battle of Jutland massed Destroyer torpedo attacks were used regularly.
On such attacks the destroyers had massive chance of being sunk although they could score the occasional crippling hit on a battleship which reduced its efficiency, put it out of action or sunk it.
I am pleased that there is now an opportunity for massed frigs to potentially do some damage to a BS. It is much more realistic and makes the BS driver have to think much more carefully about having the correct mix of weaponry (and escorts).
I can see corps potentially swapping into low class ships for specific missions which could be interesting.
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Calalbran
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Posted - 2003.07.04 09:57:00 -
[35]
Come on guys - frigates carry much smaller guns than cruisers or battelships normally do.
A cruiser or battleship can easily destroy a frigate - if they can hit it, whereas a frigate has to fire a lot to destroy even a cruiser, never mind a battleship.
If anyone sees a single frigate attacking cruiser or battelship, you know who is going to win.
But if you get a group of frigates, get them in close, then suddenly the biggest long-range stuff will have a hard job hitting them.
I daresay 10 frigates would be needed to take out a single battleship in a reasonable time - and WOULD lose some ships themselves.
Any cruisers or battelships that travel alone and pack nothing but the biggest long-range weaponry is asking for trouble.
So either they travel in fleets, or stick some short-range, fast turret stuff on too.
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GlimmerMan
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Posted - 2003.07.04 10:09:00 -
[36]
My problem with battleships is the total lack of CPU and Power, it really is a joke, having 19 slots and just over 500 cpu is stupid, thats damn near 25 cpu per slot only, last time I checked most modules were well over that
The biggest guns alone use 45-60 cpu. Sure I could rip all my heatsinks out and fill my low slots with co-procs and reactor controls, but thats gonna half my damage per gun, for the sake of fitting 1 or 2 extra large turrets, its simply not worth it.
Battleships CPU, Power and Cap really needs looking at, it is well out of below scale compared to frigates and cruisers.
__________________
- GlimmerMan |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.04 10:14:00 -
[37]
No problems with frigs so far. Medium EMP / Explosive Smartbomb owns them all the time :-).
Come to my cruiser and eat some 425mm AutoCannons.
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Jebac Wolnosc
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Posted - 2003.07.04 10:29:00 -
[38]
 Quote:
In the real world, real battleships have massive turrets that take several minutes to align properly.. they are only suitable for hitting relatively stationary objects, like land objects or other ships..
Indeed. Didn't anyone see the attack on the Death Star in Star Wars? :)
Battleships should be able to track friagtes if they install smaller, more mobile guns to do so. The down sides being a) they don't do alot of damage and thus b) if they come across another battleship which has heavy guns, they're in the ****s.
Friagtes are supposed to be small, nimble craft. They may not be able to damage a battleship (although many of them should) but they should be able to fly rings round it and avoid their heavy guns. The same goes against crusiers. Again, they're not as mobile so they shouldn't be able to track as easily unless they have gear specifically designed to track frigates.
Lets not simply make it battleship = 5 x crusier = 3 x friagte. That's boring.
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2003.07.04 10:31:00 -
[39]
That is precisely why I LOVE this patch. It gives frigates a proper role again. I always intended to be a frigate specialist - now I can do this.
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Hardin
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Posted - 2003.07.04 10:37:00 -
[40]
No point being a frig specialist alone....if you can get 4/5 mates to team up with u then u might rock a bit... Frigs on their own will still die...
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Emperess
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Posted - 2003.07.04 11:20:00 -
[41]
I'm very happy with the changes/fixes to combat.
Just to add something to the fitting discussion, and since we are comparing this to naval battles, I'm going to use the Bismark as an example. It had the following turrets ("fittings") put into eve uniform:
4 x 380mm Dual Cannons(Total of 8 guns)
6 x 150mm Dual Scouts(Total of 12 guns)
8 x 105mm Dual Autocannons (Total of 16 guns)
8 x 37mm Dual Autocannons (Total of 16 guns)
Autocannons were for close defences and anti-air. The dual scouts were for frigates, destroyers and merchant ships. The dual cannons were for capital ships and land bombardment.
Now, you can see that historically "battleships" have a variety of armament. This particular ship ventured out on its own and got sunk but it was able to defend itself.
In EVE everyone was fitting 26 x 380mm Cannons. You now have to fit your battleships sensibly, similar to the Bismark - but still ... don't go fly around alone ;)
Emperess, CEO
The Collective |
Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.04 11:43:00 -
[42]
You're semi right.
Yes, BBs have big guns that can take out anything except fast moving objects close in.
To take out the said fast moving objects they carry small anti-ship missiles (Harpoons) and Phalanx Turrets.
Besides, 1 frigate before the patch could easily pose a threat to a BB, you guys just need to learn that there is more to fighting than guns.
-=Maarek Steele=-
Have gun, will travel. |
GALAGA
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:22:00 -
[43]
DO NOT (I repeat) DO NOT listen to all of these other posts. (These people are crazy)
Just equip your battleship with the biggest and most powerful guns because you will only be fighting against another battleship.
And do not use any heavy ion cannons on your ship! (What would your friends think of you running around with one or two of these puny weapons?)
But of course, when my fleet comes in with our torps, cruise, and various weapons, you might have to rethink your position. :)
Finally they made it like I remember in beta where you would have to equip for a variety of circumstances and ranges.
-----------------------------------------------
"The Light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not." |
Honor Harrington
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:47:00 -
[44]
Yeah... do what the big ships do now and have a Close In Weapon System (CIWS) for short range defence.
CIWS are usually used for shooting down missiles that get through the anti-missile missile screen (defender missiles in EVE) but are usable for shooting at anything as they are a fast tracking high rate of fire weapon... you just have to read the description of the weapons now and use the range banding.
The nice thing about lasers is you can even change the ranging by swapping out the crystals within the battle so you can have them set as long range to begin with and then when the enemy gets closer switch to short range and hit them with your multi-freqs.
This patch has got to be best thing since sliced bread for the tacticians out there. It's no longer "fit the heaviest weapons" and fire anymore.
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Tolanthas
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Posted - 2003.07.04 12:52:00 -
[45]
GlimmerMan
Amarr
MASS
My problem with battleships is the total lack of CPU and Power, it really is a joke, having 19 slots and just over 500 cpu is stupid, thats damn near 25 cpu per slot only, last time I checked most modules were well over that
Yeah thats pretty bad I have over 500 CPU on my Moa and use all of it.
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Digital Sin
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Posted - 2003.07.04 14:15:00 -
[46]
whats the problem? you guys dont know how to mount other guns? it IS possible to put frigate sized or even cruiser sized guns on a battleship. hell, use missiles too. i am sure they would like a rack of heavies chasing them down. is it really so hard to mount a heavy neutron blaster or an autocannon just for backup? your 1400mm artillery wouldnt hit for beans anyway, so why keep it on.
"To be content,to be comfortable, is to be complacent. No one learns anything from pleasure..pain on the other hand is a most efficient instructor" |
Reathe
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Posted - 2003.07.04 14:28:00 -
[47]
Battleships 'should' and will hopefully now need a fighter escort to ensure it does not die a death of 1000 cuts :)
OR equip a few smaller turrets of course :)
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Rhonstet
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Posted - 2003.07.04 18:37:00 -
[48]
Empress's Post is pretty much the end of this discussion, with one exception.
Don't forget about Drones. Any frigate that thinks it can get the drop on a Thorax close-range might be a little surprised when they suddenly get swarmed by drones at close range. And this frigate-defense tactic is going to get a lot more devastating if/when the drone interface improves.
Gallente Tristans have a common counter-countertactic for this. They are naturally suited to carrying Smartbombs, thanks to their lack of hardpoints.
All the more reason for everyone, even frigates, to consider balanced loadouts when field intelligence is limited.
The Monkeysphere |
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