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Well since all the whiney frigate users got their way

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Tularek	Posted - 2003.07.04 04:54:00 - [1] How about the big boat users get theirs. Since now any fool with 200k can compete with my 100million piece of equipment which I dont care how fast you ship goes or what I load it should stand no chance 20 of them should stand no chance. Since people claim "turrets are realistic" or "things wouldn't work like that" well lets shoot for total realism. Basically your Frigate is like a speed boat with a 50mm mounted gun. And your attacking my Destroyer class ship in the naval fleet. Let's address several points of "realism" A. Your ship is to small to Carry ANY type of weaponry that should effect my shields let alone my armor. B. My gun SHOULD get a bonus modifier on your smaller ship since my shells are about the size of your ship and kill you in 1 shot period. If there are 8 frigs 30km from me in all fairness to "realism" I can point 1 gun at each of you and you all go POOF period. The day that a frigate or 10 frigates or 20 frigates stand a chance against a battle ship all BS users might as well quit because that is BS!!!! Lets take the best frigate best gear whats that cost 10 million for 20 suped up frigs. Hmm against a 100 million isk battleship they should stand no chance period. I'm tired of all the lets help the weaker players, let's help the care bears, hell why your at it why don't you just make it so if I want to attack someone they have to accept my request. That'll make for a really fun game. Oh yeah incase you dont get my points unless im being attacked by atleast 50 suped of frigates they should get wiped out by 1 Battleship because in realife those little speed boats would get annihiliated so why wouldn't they in space. Again my shells are just about as big as your ship. Heck I'm basically stuffing a bantaam in a cannon and shooting it at you. And just so we're clear I already know the only people who will agree this point are the weak players so don't bother. Now if cruisers want to attack a BS thats fine need to be atleast 5 but thats more fair. Frigates shouldn't be able to damage a BS or very little and should be killed in 1 shot because large shells need to get a damage multiplier vs. small ships. What do you think will hurt more an ak-47 full clip or 1 105mm shell from an m1a1-abram.....think it over.
Axelay	Posted - 2003.07.04 04:58:00 - [2] Trolling is prohibited. "Trolling" is the phrase used to describe a post which is deliberately designed for the sole purpose of angering and insulting the members of the forum community. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not convey a friendly attitude. -Elereth Removed, moderation actions are not to be discussed in these forums, and moderation actions taken when you violate the rules are not harrassment - Wrangler Edited by: Axelay on 04/07/2003 07:44:32 _____ m0o
Tularek	Posted - 2003.07.04 04:58:00 - [3] Oh and I mean't the only people who will ARGUE with me are the little frigate users please dont post something stupid like learn to type or attack my sentence syntax, another tool the losing side of an arguement uses.
Vacuole	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:04:00 - [4] The occasional hit from a cruiser or BS on a frigate should be devistating, but very rare up close, IMHO. In the real world, real battleships have massive turrets that take several minutes to align properly.. they are only suitable for hitting relatively stationary objects, like land objects or other ships.. They are useless on aircraft (Eve frigates?) or even small, very nimble gunships. Meanwhile, the gunships rip them up with small arms, like 50mm gatling, etc. but it takes them forever.. lots of time.. more time that passes, more odds that the BS will actually land that single devestating hit. Remember that BS ordinance is about the SIZE of an entire frigate. ;) Massive turrets aren't agile enough to track a frigate, so the best they can hope for is the long range hit. Up close, its time to get out the privates and their handguns or whatever.. something that can be quickly aimed. For laughs, I fitted a large ion blaster on my ship tonight and .. holy ***.. up close, it dealt some serious damage. Edited by: Vacuole on 04/07/2003 05:08:22*
Desoto	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:05:00 - [5] the A1 mod to the M1 Abrams tank mounts a 120mm turret, btw =)
Drefsab	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:07:00 - [6] Removed, moderation actions are not to be discussed on these forums - Wrangler "Death Before Dishonor"
spankyster	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:13:00 - [7] food for thought that ak-47 fired inside the tank kills everyone but the driver ask any tanker they fear the little guy or the apc with a tow launcher on top of it point 2 better check your ww2 history as there are many instances where cruisers and even battleships were set upon by frigates and destroyers and guess what the big ship went to the bottom wanna know why those big bad guns could not track fast enough to hit the little buggers but all along the big ship is getting hammered and finally they get in close and let fly with torpedo's boom thanks for coming out "Lets take the best frigate best gear whats that cost 10 million for 20 suped up frigs. Hmm against a 100 million isk battleship they should stand no chance period." battle starts 20 frigates launch 20 torpedoes battleship nails ones frigate and kills it frigates close range and lose 2 more frigate warp scramble battleship battleship kills 2 more frigates frigates fire 15 more torpedo's battleship blows up check out the composition of a battlegroup the battleship sits in the middle and is protected by about 14 other ships specifically designed to deal with "little speed boats" I guess what this means is if your driving a battleship better get some escorts to help protect you or get a crap load of drones interesting post your facts need checking tho and not meant as a flame just pointing out that battleship alone and by itself is dead if a wolfpack comes after it Edited by: spankyster on 04/07/2003 05:19:57
Vacuole	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:19:00 - [8] Umm, spanky Thanks for helping me make my point. ;) 1. Frigates can kill battleships, given enought time and numbers. 2. battleships will kill a frigate in 1 or 2 shots up close, but those would be RARE instances. 3. Large Bship turrets shouldn't be able to track fast enough to make frigate killing up close feasible.
Desoto	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:22:00 - [9] Gotta concur with Spanky on this one... Battleships in RL (when they were still used in combat), NEVER travelled alone, but in large task forces with cruiser/destroyer escorts. Why? Because that small little insignificant frigate moving so fast that the huge 12'-16' battleship turrets could not track it would blast it to pieces with torpedoes. On the battlefield, everything has a place, even the frigates...
XeQtR	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:24:00 - [10] You're basicly shooting bantams at ppl?? Hm. I did a quick check on the punisher and allthough it's possibly bigger than a bantam I'd still say that considering that a punisher is about 50 meters long, a bantam is quite possibly larger than the largest projectile you can shoot. (1400mm is it? That would be 1.4 meters for the ones not used to the metric system. I'm not saying a frigate SHOULD stand any chance against a battleship, but I'm also pretty certain it doesn't. On the other hand. A Cruiser orbiting your Battleship at close range and hi speed should at least have a chance to do some damage to you if you haven't equipped your ship correctly. As in your analogy to real life naval units. Do you think the battleships from ww2 would shoot at those small gunboats with their 50cm cannons or do you think they had some smaller weapons as well? Suitable for smaller targets.
Drefsab	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:28:00 - [11] So try and have at least one fast tracking close range weapon to slap any frigates that get cheaky :P "Death Before Dishonor"
Psylocke	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:30:00 - [12] History Channel, 2 days. You'll learn.
Vacuole	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:32:00 - [13] Well, in real life, Battlships (like during WW2) had much more than "8 turret points" to deal with all sorts of threats.. Heck, GI's with their handguns were a factor! :) So, a perfect analogy is not possible; EVE is too limited. But the main point is that turret tracking is now very significant and it should be. Huge, heavy battleship turrets shouldn't be able to accurately track tiny fly-like frigates wizzing by. However, very rarely, a small-car sized battleship ordinance (a piece of ammo) might actually hit a frigate, and it would be curtains for that frigate. :) Edited by: Vacuole on 04/07/2003 05:32:49
MoonDragn	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:37:00 - [14] I agree, Eve is too limited. I never understood why ships only had a limited amount of slots for high, med and low. Its already limited by amount of cpu and power grid.
spankyster	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:40:00 - [15] one thing that often confuses people is that battleships will use their main guns against small ships they will fire into the water as close to them as possible and hope the splash damage or shockwave tears them apart. unfortunatly we are in space and its real hard to get splash damage out here unless they start making shells with proximity fuses we are back at square one
Desoto	Posted - 2003.07.04 05:48:00 - [16] The technique was called 'bracketing'. The BS would concentrate its fire inside a square around a faster-moving target, so that the rounds that didn't hit would cause fragmentaion damage. Wonder how that tactic would translate to a 3-dimentional battlefield. Could call it 'cubing' lol
Wind	Posted - 2003.07.04 06:01:00 - [17] A person in a BS would have to be dumb to get trapped by 20 frigates. the event seems too fake, I never see more than 5 frigates parked anyware unless your at a station even than I dont think that BS is alone in the system. just think. mom's children may be close by :P
Pudee	Posted - 2003.07.04 06:25:00 - [18] At last the game is turning in to what was promised with each ship having a different role in a battle. The game has suddenly become more tactical than get the biggest ship in the game and own everyone in a smaller ship, I think this is a positive change and is well within CCP's origional vision.
Ruulex DeMors	Posted - 2003.07.04 06:39:00 - [19] Heck, equip that BS size smartbomb and go to town. Honestly...there are weapons to counter every possible attack. Get with you Corp-mates and figure out the best overall set up. If all you guns are 1400mm Artillery than you're in for a rude awakening when the frigates destroy you 20 pts at a time. Maybe keep two Heavy Blasters for those up close and personal attacks. For the ppl that are equipped for pure damage, they have to change their set-up now. BS's have many slots, don't just slap 'em all with lateral stablizers (or what-ever your damage mod of choice). Not making fun of ppl here, just throwing out suggestions to BS's that are scared of the zerging frigates ;-) Edited by: Ruulex DeMors on 04/07/2003 06:40:51 ------------------------------------- Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals http://www.EVEMarshals.com
Bambooza	Posted - 2003.07.04 06:44:00 - [20] I would say a battleship on its own stands a better chance of surviving most encounters but to say that a battleship should be the king of the hill and untouchable by anything below it in less they are in large numbers removes any sort of battlefield tactics as well as promote a single direction tread mill to buying the biggest ship available. Having read through all the post I would agree with those who have posted before me as what they have said is a realistic approach and one that promotes multiple variables much as a game of chess has multiple moves. Battleships equipped only with large weapons would have a hell of a time tracking and hitting a fast moving frigate or cruiser moving in angles less then 45 to the battleship. Equip that same battleship with some medium and small turrets and it can spend all day eating frigates for breakfast. Now that battleship becomes vulnerable to other battleships and cruisers. But the question is why would a battleship be alone? Cruisers being far more versatile make better solo ships and are far easier to replace when lost.
Zeknichov	Posted - 2003.07.04 06:57:00 - [21] Okay why does everyone think battleships should be the only way to fight. If a battleship could take out 20 frigates then in time no one will use frigates anymore. Everyship needs an advantage. IMO Cruisers should be the main versitile fighter class of ship while battleships should be more for space station assassults (if that ever happens) frigates should be a quick hit and run attack force. Like someone stated above we shoot for real realism well your battleship can't aim very well at a fast moving speed boat.
DarkRift	Posted - 2003.07.04 07:21:00 - [22] Quote: I agree, Eve is too limited. I never understood why ships only had a limited amount of slots for high, med and low. Its already limited by amount of cpu and power grid. Because the benefits are rarely linear when compared to fitting requirements. Multiple smaller modules are typically better than a single large module given the same fitting requirements. Having limited slots promotes the use of the single large module on ships that can carry it just to save space. Quote: battleships will use their main guns against small ships they will fire into the water as close to them as possible and hope the splash damage or shockwave tears them apart. Very true, a 5 inch gun can land 5 rounds at the same time in one area. However, this requires ballistic trajectories which you don't have in space (at small distances/low gravity). The gun has very little chance of hitting the boat directly. Proximity rounds (flak) would be an interesting addition. A frigate that gets inside your main guns should pick you apart slowly. That's why high tracking/short range guns/smartbombs exist. Real ships use smaller cannons and Phalanx systems to shoot fast moving targets, so should you. Battleships no longer exist in the navy due to the advent of the aircraft carrier. They can deliver accurate fire far beyond the range of a battleship's main guns (which had no chance of downing one of the planes at any range, that's what the smaller cannons were for).
Muppet	Posted - 2003.07.04 07:40:00 - [23] well lets shoot for total realism. Basically your Frigate is like a speed boat with a 50mm mounted gun. And your attacking my Destroyer class ship in the naval fleet. Well, destroyers were first built to protect cruisers and battleships from MTBs, so Eve is not that unrealistic
Torval Sontu	Posted - 2003.07.04 07:45:00 - [24] I was eating frigates alive after the changes even with the nerfed tracking my heavy mods were two shotting them like normal :). cough used to be one shot always but since I only use one dmg mod if they are lucky its 2 :).
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.07.04 07:49:00 - [25] << I was eating frigates alive after the changes even with the nerfed tracking my heavy mods were two shotting them like normal :). cough used to be one shot always but since I only use one dmg mod if they are lucky its 2 :). >> With what class weapons? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Solomani il Xafra	Posted - 2003.07.04 08:14:00 - [26] If you want to be "realistic" and compare it to "real life" there are NO MORE BATTLESHIPS. The USN has none and niether do any of the other world powers. If you are shooting a volkswagon at a fast moving small target at 30 clicks away then you probably should miss - alot. If they get close enuf where they can hurt you they should be vapourised by your BS gun - but, so would you from the splash damage! The only "real life" uber keel all weapon is the laser as it CAN NOT BE DODGED at anything less then 1 light year. You shoot it, it instantly hits your target. THATS realistic. But, do you really want that? In real life frigates are used (along with destroyers) to escort and protect carrier vehicles.
ABNTanker	Posted - 2003.07.04 08:23:00 - [27] food for thought that ak-47 fired inside the tank kills everyone but the driver ask any tanker they fear the little guy or the apc with a tow launcher on top of it. First, I was a tanker and an infantryman with an assualt rifle was the least of my fears. Fast movers,(aircraft) is what made me freeze in hopes of not being spotted. Second, ground warfare is the worst area for making comparisons to EVE combat. Stick to naval units is my advice.
Axelay	Posted - 2003.07.04 09:06:00 - [28] Thats not a good comparison because if you related it to naval units then this game would be ALL phuqued up. Oh, wait, it is.... Sure maybe a Dreadnaught Battleship wouldn't be able to hit a guy in a raft with it's main guns. But then, anything that the guy in the raft could mount would simply bounce off ot the Battleship without even scratching it. And I bet they would be able to find something on the ship to shoot at the guy in the raft which wouln't have much trouble at all hitting. _____ m0o
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.07.04 09:10:00 - [29] I was under the impression that Destroyer class ships mounted not only large weaponry, but AA-guns and smaller turrets as well. Is this still the case in naval warfare?
MoonDragn	Posted - 2003.07.04 09:11:00 - [30] I dunno what the fuss is about. I am still using my long range heavy guns and these frigates still last about as long as they did before the patch.
Tolanthas	Posted - 2003.07.04 09:12:00 - [31] It comes down to just adjusting your fittings,, I run 3 long range turrets and one short anode nuetron,, the friagte who thinks they can come in close to my Cruiser and live is in for a suprise when he gets hit for 200 damage post nerf as he tries to orbit me. People who set there ship up one dimensionally will fail its just how it is. I'm glad to see the fact other classes of ships are gonna play a more important role. There are corps with 100s of members all in cruisers or with some Battleships. I would love to see a Battleship brough down by a pack of rifters or merlins circling at close range because the person in the Battleship thought he was invulnerable to the smaller ships. There is a reason to have fleets,, each ship has diff roles use them people. Balance your attack groups and stop crying about something that has affected everyone the same. Its not like CCP pointed a finger and said.. Ok we want your ship to be destroyed.. Its a Game guys and girls,, Play it or dont but please stop crying about every like fix or nerf or whatever it is.
Jay Gatsby	Posted - 2003.07.04 09:13:00 - [32] LOL - Can't dodge a laser from a light-year away? You have a YEAR to get out of the way. That's what a light year IS. The distance that light travels in one year. Lasers emit light. Learn some basic physics, or at least do some research. Light travels at just under 300,000 km/s in a vacuum. So yes, in a close quarter battle (i.e. within Eve) lasers should hit almost instantly. You'd better be a damn good shot though.
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.07.04 09:26:00 - [33] "Sure maybe a Dreadnaught Battleship wouldn't be able to hit a guy in a raft with it's main guns. But then, anything that the guy in the raft could mount would simply bounce off ot the Battleship without even scratching it." Well, the raft is equivalent of the pod -- i don't think the guy in the egg can blow up your battleship, can they? On the other hand, a plane carrying a torpedo isn't much bigger than the said raft, yet a good number of them can kill even the biggest battleship as long as it's caught without assistance -- that's exactly how Yamato, japanese (and world) biggest battleship of the WWII was sunk. Perhaps m0o has problem with adapting to the new tactics because no 'self-respecting' power gamer wants to be that SOL guy in the frigate providing cover for the team battleships?..
Hardin	Posted - 2003.07.04 09:53:00 - [34] I think the closest thing to a battleship in EVE would be an aircraft carrier in today's navy. They have an amazing punch and attacking potential...but at the same time are extremely vulnerable if something gets up close. That is why aircraft carriers normally have a whole fleet of ships around them protecting them from a variety of smaller things such as fast attack/torpedo boats (MTBs), submarines, missile attacks, mines and air attacks. To be honest a well equipped battleship with the right mix of weaponry shouldn't even have a problem with destroyers. Even in World War II a a destroyer steaming straight at a battleships was considered a pretty suicidal thing to do...as most battleships also had pretty effective secondary armaments that could still track and sink a destroyer - and even before that, the destroyer had spend a lot of time simply getting to the battleship while under the fire of the main guns. However the tactic was used as naval commanders would use the destroyer as there was a chance that in the heat of battle (particularly if the battleship was already engaging other enemy capital ships) then the destroyer could slip through and unleash a few torpedos which could potentially sink the battleship or at least force it into an urgent change of course. In WW1 in the battle of Jutland massed Destroyer torpedo attacks were used regularly. On such attacks the destroyers had massive chance of being sunk although they could score the occasional crippling hit on a battleship which reduced its efficiency, put it out of action or sunk it. I am pleased that there is now an opportunity for massed frigs to potentially do some damage to a BS. It is much more realistic and makes the BS driver have to think much more carefully about having the correct mix of weaponry (and escorts). I can see corps potentially swapping into low class ships for specific missions which could be interesting.
Calalbran	Posted - 2003.07.04 09:57:00 - [35] Come on guys - frigates carry much smaller guns than cruisers or battelships normally do. A cruiser or battleship can easily destroy a frigate - if they can hit it, whereas a frigate has to fire a lot to destroy even a cruiser, never mind a battleship. If anyone sees a single frigate attacking cruiser or battelship, you know who is going to win. But if you get a group of frigates, get them in close, then suddenly the biggest long-range stuff will have a hard job hitting them. I daresay 10 frigates would be needed to take out a single battleship in a reasonable time - and WOULD lose some ships themselves. Any cruisers or battelships that travel alone and pack nothing but the biggest long-range weaponry is asking for trouble. So either they travel in fleets, or stick some short-range, fast turret stuff on too.
GlimmerMan	Posted - 2003.07.04 10:09:00 - [36] My problem with battleships is the total lack of CPU and Power, it really is a joke, having 19 slots and just over 500 cpu is stupid, thats damn near 25 cpu per slot only, last time I checked most modules were well over that The biggest guns alone use 45-60 cpu. Sure I could rip all my heatsinks out and fill my low slots with co-procs and reactor controls, but thats gonna half my damage per gun, for the sake of fitting 1 or 2 extra large turrets, its simply not worth it. Battleships CPU, Power and Cap really needs looking at, it is well out of below scale compared to frigates and cruisers. __________________ - GlimmerMan
Molly	Posted - 2003.07.04 10:14:00 - [37] No problems with frigs so far. Medium EMP / Explosive Smartbomb owns them all the time :-). Come to my cruiser and eat some 425mm AutoCannons. --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
Jebac Wolnosc	Posted - 2003.07.04 10:29:00 - [38] Quote: In the real world, real battleships have massive turrets that take several minutes to align properly.. they are only suitable for hitting relatively stationary objects, like land objects or other ships.. Indeed. Didn't anyone see the attack on the Death Star in Star Wars? :) Battleships should be able to track friagtes if they install smaller, more mobile guns to do so. The down sides being a) they don't do alot of damage and thus b) if they come across another battleship which has heavy guns, they're in the ****s. Friagtes are supposed to be small, nimble craft. They may not be able to damage a battleship (although many of them should) but they should be able to fly rings round it and avoid their heavy guns. The same goes against crusiers. Again, they're not as mobile so they shouldn't be able to track as easily unless they have gear specifically designed to track frigates. Lets not simply make it battleship = 5 x crusier = 3 x friagte. That's boring.
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2003.07.04 10:31:00 - [39] That is precisely why I LOVE this patch. It gives frigates a proper role again. I always intended to be a frigate specialist - now I can do this.
Hardin	Posted - 2003.07.04 10:37:00 - [40] No point being a frig specialist alone....if you can get 4/5 mates to team up with u then u might rock a bit... Frigs on their own will still die...
Emperess	Posted - 2003.07.04 11:20:00 - [41] I'm very happy with the changes/fixes to combat. Just to add something to the fitting discussion, and since we are comparing this to naval battles, I'm going to use the Bismark as an example. It had the following turrets ("fittings") put into eve uniform: 4 x 380mm Dual Cannons(Total of 8 guns) 6 x 150mm Dual Scouts(Total of 12 guns) 8 x 105mm Dual Autocannons (Total of 16 guns) 8 x 37mm Dual Autocannons (Total of 16 guns) Autocannons were for close defences and anti-air. The dual scouts were for frigates, destroyers and merchant ships. The dual cannons were for capital ships and land bombardment. Now, you can see that historically "battleships" have a variety of armament. This particular ship ventured out on its own and got sunk but it was able to defend itself. In EVE everyone was fitting 26 x 380mm Cannons. You now have to fit your battleships sensibly, similar to the Bismark - but still ... don't go fly around alone ;) Emperess, CEO The Collective
Maarek Steele	Posted - 2003.07.04 11:43:00 - [42] You're semi right. Yes, BBs have big guns that can take out anything except fast moving objects close in. To take out the said fast moving objects they carry small anti-ship missiles (Harpoons) and Phalanx Turrets. Besides, 1 frigate before the patch could easily pose a threat to a BB, you guys just need to learn that there is more to fighting than guns. -=Maarek Steele=- Have gun, will travel.
GALAGA	Posted - 2003.07.04 12:22:00 - [43] DO NOT (I repeat) DO NOT listen to all of these other posts. (These people are crazy) Just equip your battleship with the biggest and most powerful guns because you will only be fighting against another battleship. And do not use any heavy ion cannons on your ship! (What would your friends think of you running around with one or two of these puny weapons?) But of course, when my fleet comes in with our torps, cruise, and various weapons, you might have to rethink your position. :) Finally they made it like I remember in beta where you would have to equip for a variety of circumstances and ranges. ----------------------------------------------- "The Light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not."
Honor Harrington	Posted - 2003.07.04 12:47:00 - [44] Yeah... do what the big ships do now and have a Close In Weapon System (CIWS) for short range defence. CIWS are usually used for shooting down missiles that get through the anti-missile missile screen (defender missiles in EVE) but are usable for shooting at anything as they are a fast tracking high rate of fire weapon... you just have to read the description of the weapons now and use the range banding. The nice thing about lasers is you can even change the ranging by swapping out the crystals within the battle so you can have them set as long range to begin with and then when the enemy gets closer switch to short range and hit them with your multi-freqs. This patch has got to be best thing since sliced bread for the tacticians out there. It's no longer "fit the heaviest weapons" and fire anymore.
Tolanthas	Posted - 2003.07.04 12:52:00 - [45] GlimmerMan Amarr MASS My problem with battleships is the total lack of CPU and Power, it really is a joke, having 19 slots and just over 500 cpu is stupid, thats damn near 25 cpu per slot only, last time I checked most modules were well over that Yeah thats pretty bad I have over 500 CPU on my Moa and use all of it.
Digital Sin	Posted - 2003.07.04 14:15:00 - [46] whats the problem? you guys dont know how to mount other guns? it IS possible to put frigate sized or even cruiser sized guns on a battleship. hell, use missiles too. i am sure they would like a rack of heavies chasing them down. is it really so hard to mount a heavy neutron blaster or an autocannon just for backup? your 1400mm artillery wouldnt hit for beans anyway, so why keep it on. "To be content,to be comfortable, is to be complacent. No one learns anything from pleasure..pain on the other hand is a most efficient instructor"
Reathe	Posted - 2003.07.04 14:28:00 - [47] Battleships 'should' and will hopefully now need a fighter escort to ensure it does not die a death of 1000 cuts :) OR equip a few smaller turrets of course :)
Rhonstet	Posted - 2003.07.04 18:37:00 - [48] Empress's Post is pretty much the end of this discussion, with one exception. Don't forget about Drones. Any frigate that thinks it can get the drop on a Thorax close-range might be a little surprised when they suddenly get swarmed by drones at close range. And this frigate-defense tactic is going to get a lot more devastating if/when the drone interface improves. Gallente Tristans have a common counter-countertactic for this. They are naturally suited to carrying Smartbombs, thanks to their lack of hardpoints. All the more reason for everyone, even frigates, to consider balanced loadouts when field intelligence is limited. The Monkeysphere

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