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Lucious Shazih
Dark Star Recon
17
   |
Posted - 2012.10.20 05:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
There's various scripted events that cause damage over time to ships, and I think most people find that interesting and exciting when done right. I think the game could benefit from weapons systems that cause similar kinds of damage, in a kind of "fire and forget" fashion.
Infectious nanite cloud:
Concept: The nanites would cause damage over time to the target, and perhaps stack damage slowly as they self-replicate and intensify their attack; until eventually they stop losing the raw materials to create further copies of themselves, allowing damage up to a maximum period of time, depending on amount of exposure. Exposure would depend on time spent inside the cloud.
Limitations: These hostiles nanites should bypass shields and simply damage armor. I have mixed feelings about them damaging the hull of the ship.
Delivery: The nanites could be delivered via bomb. The bomb would simply travel like normal and upon exploding it would release a cloud of these hostile nanites over a certain radius. Also a specialized probe could deliver capsules into space that detonate after a period of time.
Counter: Leaving cloud or warping out of cloud. Local repair or remote repair and waiting until the nanites are no longer able to damage the ship.
Shield Cancelling gas cloud:
Concept: The cloud would cover a certain radius after being delivered, and the charged particles contained within the cloud would cause disruption of the ship's shield, damaging it over time, until the ship gets out of the cloud, and the damage could continue slightly and rapidly diminish to nothing after leaving the charged particle cloud.
Limitations: This cloud should affect only shields.
Delivery: The delivery system would be a bomb just like the nanites. A bomber could launch a specialized bomb which contains a canister of this cloud, and it would detonate after a period of time, spreading the cloud over a wide area/bubble.
Counter: Leaving the cloud or warping out of cloud. Shield boosting and also remote shield transfer until the effect is no longer present. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
331
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 06:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Interesting idea, I can see this being used in null sec as a way to flush out fleets from camps or forcing logistics to work hard to maintain fleet integrity.
Ofcourse with the current popularity of bombers there is a good chance that this could be added as and 'aftershock' to bombing runs. After the initial bombing run the 'infectious nanite cloud' is shot as the last bomb to kill off any remaining pod caught in a bubble.
On second thought the combination of multiple Clouds and bubbles trapping fleets, this could be very overpowered and I would have to say no. Also a preemptive no to only limiting one cloud per area of effect cause that would kill the sandbox part of the game.
Good theory though.
MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.-á -Garresh- |
Luc Chastot
Moira.
Villore Accords
38
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 07:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Interesting idea. When I have less alcohol in my body, I'll give it more thought.
Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Lucious Shazih
Dark Star Recon
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 21:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:
Clouds and bubbles trapping fleets, this could be very overpowered...
I don't see how... perhaps you are imagining these things just devastating fleets, but when you think about how the clouds work, If you're in cloud, effect present, once out of cloud, effect begins to die down, I don't see these things causing devastating damage in seconds, it would simply tick away your armor and or shields at an understandable rate. Also creating massive areas of this or having multiple explosions in which the clouds overlap would not intensify the effect... in other words, it's all about whether you're in the cloud or not.
The next aspect of this I want to bring up, is that these clouds are a double edged sword they don't discriminate between colors or who fired it. If you're in it, then you're going to be affected. When you think about the mobility of combat ships, it's not that bad. Small ships are generally fast, and will be able to exit the field, while if you're in a large ship, you have so much more HP available that would balance out the fact that you're slow.
Quote:
Also a preemptive no to only limiting one cloud per area of effect cause that would kill the sandbox part of the game.
Regarding that statement, I really think you are not thinking this through... The nanites don't eat shields, so it makes sense that they bypass shields and affect armor... The second anti-shield gas is designed to affect charged particles and electromagnetic fields, so it only really has a significant effect on shields.
It's simply a mechanic, where's the sandbox infringement? If so you can call anything a sandbox infringement. You can always stick around and just pound away at your target until you kill it. The important part to consider is that these clouds are less lethal than an actual bomb. If you get hit by a bomb in a mwd frigate, you might be a goner... If you pass through this cloud in a mwd frig, you might start having to think about mitigating the effects that now you're being gradually damaged by the cloud... It's simply another dimension added to the battlefield, which acts like a weakening effect if you chose to place your ship in that space. It forces movement. So there's my response to that. In terms of eve space science, it seems fair! Obviously the cloud would have a lifespan, and would dissipate after a certain period of time. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
1013
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 23:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
This idea reminds me of something that we used to have... what was it again?
Ah yes... the "old style" Doomsdays. Damages everything on grid... doesn't discriminate between friend or foe... kills everything but the most tanky of ships (see: battleships and above).
The only difference between your idea and the old doomsday is that your "damage cloud" damages over time while the doomsday was an "all at once" blast.
Either way... it effectively obsoletes smaller, untanked ships... as there is no point in bringing a ship that is going to have to leave field after a few seconds. Fleets might even use the damage clouds on themselves to root out potential stealth bomber gangs that are setting up a bombing run.
And no... there is no "leaving" the clouds as players will most likely just throw them up in EVERY direction... and the fact that battleships simply don't move very fast at all.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Lucious Shazih
Dark Star Recon
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 02:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
@ShahFluffers, your concern is exactly the reason why these "clouds" would not do devastating damage in a short time. This is also why I would separate damage types and they wouldn't destroy a ship's hull. And I wouldn't expect this effect to decloak bombers.
On another note, next time, please read the damn post. Your comparison to the old doomsday was dumb... (I'm being nice). |
Marcus Ichiro
Paxton Industries
Gentlemen's Agreement
79
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 04:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lucious Shazih wrote:these "clouds" would not do devastating damage in a short time
Against what? Supercaps? Because what would qualify as non-devastating damage to a supercap could be devastating damage to a frigate. But if you mean that the cloud would be non-devastating even to a frigate what would be the point in using it in the first place?
His comparison to doomsdays is valid. What you're suggesting is an area of effect weapon that doesn't discriminate between friend or foe, and they're always a nightmare to balance. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
331
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 05:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
What it really comes down to is how much damage does it do over time, and does your signature radius mitigate a portion of the damage, much like how bombs work. If it deals just a raw amount of damage without consideration then the only thing that you can look to for a comparison is the smartbombs and use them as a template. Also, damage is damage, it should act like any normal attack and not bypass shields, it would just mean that shield fleets would have to sacrifice something so that they could repair armor damage. This alone would be seen as an attack on Shield tanking in general.
Another question to ask is if it effects entities such as drones or missiles, if so you could easily start using clouds to screen yourself from drones and clear them out quicker. I can honestly see your clouds being used more for this than what your original intention is.
Like I said, and interesting idea, but really just falls short of being useful or is just too overpowered when applied to drones. DOT's are an interesting concept and I would love to see incindiary weapons that apply a small secondary damage effect after a few seconds. The cloud idea is good, but isn't thick enough to stand on it's own.
MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.-á -Garresh- |
Lucious Shazih
Dark Star Recon
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 05:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Oh ok, I see the concern with balancing the damage amount.
Here's how I would imagine it balanced: Based on Volume.
Since the amount of nanites that could cover your ship really depends on the size of your ship, it makes sense that larger ships get large doses while small ships get small doses. Imagine passing your hand through a cloud of insects, how many insects will your hand hit? And then imagine using a notebook, a car, or something with considerably more volume, allowing you to hit a lot more insects. So this would be the basic concept behind balancing of the damage amount by a cloud. Good points you guys brought up there...
What else is a concern with this kind of mechanic?
I do like the idea of incendiary weapons too... pretty interesting. I would imagine drones would be almost unaffected by the clouds actually since they're so much smaller than every ship. |
Goldensaver
Vorbild Industries Inc.
State Section 9
45
|
Posted - 2012.10.21 06:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
New ship/drone stat: surface area.
Damage is based directly on the SA of the victim vessel.
I think it could be interesting. Not sure how it would work out though, if it would be OP or not. Might need to see it applied first. |
Lucious Shazih
Dark Star Recon
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 22:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think the SA (surface area) idea is perfect for this... I think it would work perfectly. :-D |
Kai'rae Saarkus
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
21
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 00:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lucious Shazih wrote:I think the SA (surface area) idea is perfect for this... I think it would work perfectly. :-D
Because what eve needs is more stats?
Srsly, Signature does this already.
To even consider balancing it you need to allow for signature and speed.
You'd also have to apply a stacking effect, otherwise you'd just have people drop a bubble+enough DOT clouds to destroy a BS.
(Hint: the reason Bombers aren't OP'd now is because they're so difficult to co-ordinate. Bombs destroy other bombs, your own bombers and - if you're lucky/good - the target. DOT weapons would be much easier to co-ordinate). |
Lucious Shazih
Dark Star Recon
17
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 05:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kai'rae Saarkus wrote:Lucious Shazih wrote:I think the SA (surface area) idea is perfect for this... I think it would work perfectly. :-D Because what eve needs is more stats? Srsly, Signature does this already. To even consider balancing it you need to allow for signature and speed. You'd also have to apply a stacking effect, otherwise you'd just have people drop a bubble+enough DOT clouds to destroy a BS. (Hint: the reason Bombers aren't OP'd now is because they're so difficult to co-ordinate. Bombs destroy other bombs, your own bombers and - if you're lucky/good - the target. DOT weapons would be much easier to co-ordinate).
I addressed this already... but i will do a quick re-address at this. The signature radius changes depending on the mods applied, and that is not ideal for this weapon mechanic. I think volume would be a better way to determine amount of exposure possible (but another person hinted that perhaps a stat could be created called surface area, but volume would work fine imo) ... and I did agree there would have to be a max damage output capability from these clouds. So even if they had dropped 10,000 of these clouds in one spot, your ship is only big enough to accumulate the max amount of exposure based on its volume.
Due to the way the nanites reproduce and function, in the same maner you cannot use an armor repair system to repair a hull, the nanites are specialized and only harm either armor or shield. So these nanites are never lethal on their own to any ship.
So in conclusion, please read carefully the proposal before posting.
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Angeal MacNova
LankTech
Adult Entertainment Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 06:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
There is a sorta stat that exist that doesn't seem to be used.
Ship length.
But I'd have to say that sig rad would be best. There shouldn't be a stat that is set in stone just as there shouldn't be a weapon who's damage is, despite being relative to the ship's size, set in stone.
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