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Veaon
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Posted - 2005.03.26 18:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Veaon on 26/03/2005 18:57:56
So I've been playing the game for a bit now and I was using blasters on smaller ships (frigs and destroyers) with some success. But in cruisers they seem to be useless, at least until I have far more sp than I do now (tech II's?).
Due to blasters having far higher fitting requirements than railguns I've found that even loading them with antimatter the railguns do more dammage and at greater range than any blaster I can fit.
Also their range is so pathetic I would have to use a microwarp to close and then have to deal with the cap problems and even without those my cruiser isint agile enough to stay in optimal etc.
Anyone have any thoughts or advice? any help is appreciated unless you post someting short and useless like "get cruiser 5" or "get space ship command 5" Ill just ignore those.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 18:34:00 -
[2]
What blasters are you using, and on what ship?
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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MadGaz
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Posted - 2005.03.26 18:34:00 -
[3]
They work fine on a thorax for me, minimal cap problems.
You just need better skills.
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Veaon
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Posted - 2005.03.26 18:42:00 -
[4]
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Im flying a thorax. Im not using blasters right now Im using Dual 150mm Compressed Coil 1's (Medium Rails).
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.03.26 18:52:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Veaon
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Im flying a thorax. Im not using blasters right now Im using Dual 150mm Compressed Coil 1's (Medium Rails).
Dual Rails suck. Use Ions.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:11:00 -
[6]
Blasters are fine.
/Elve
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Veaon
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:11:00 -
[7]
Looking at some other posts it seems there is a general concencus that blasters need to be increased in some way.
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Veaon
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:24:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Veaon on 26/03/2005 19:27:43
The general feeling in this post seems to diasgree:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=162614
For example It seems I would do only 10 extra dammage using med ions 1's over the dual rails but at a 1.25km optimal range compared to the rails 7.9km (both with antimatter)
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:25:00 -
[9]
Then maybe those people need to stop whining. They may or may not be as good as lasers and projectiles, they'll own both once they get under 5km. It's just that people hate the effort involved.
/Elve
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Baun
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Blasters are fine.
Small and Medium Blasters are fine because their underriding ship classes arent as slow as the space shuttle launch platform. Large Blasters are completely outclasses by Torpedos and Megapulses. No one has any reason to use them in PvP currently.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:29:00 -
[11]
Then again, he was on about a Thorax wasnt he?
Im sure blasters could use a bit of help in the battleship department. But it's not like theyre totally crap. They're just slightly underpowered. Woohoo, big deal. Each class gun had that, both lasers and projectiles.
/Elve
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Veaon
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:31:00 -
[12]
No, I like the effort involved, I want to fly up to my enemies and rip them apart but it seems to me its not all that possible. They dont do enough extra dammage at their optimal and you will probably be long dead before you get there anyway.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:33:00 -
[13]
They do plenty damage. Especially on a Thorax, combined with the overpowered 8 Heavy Drones. Plus they're easier to fit then railguns.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Veaon
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Veaon on 26/03/2005 19:53:49
How are they easier to fit than railguns, they have higher requirements?
Looking at my setup I somehow have to increase my grid by 20% to fit ions. Engineering to 5 (ffs) will only give me 10% and If I fit energy grid upgrades instead/aswell I will be sacraficing either tank or the cap I need to support my tank.
Any propper suggestions or just more moronic one line posts?
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Nekhad Jormuzzar
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:53:00 -
[15]
How good are your drone skills?
My experience with Gallente cruisers was very dissapointing until I got Heavy Drone Op. and Drone Interfacing to III. Until then I had better results with rails than blasters.
Using small drones to draw cruiser fire away from me was a useful tactic when I did use blasters.
Cruisers are slow and unagile, more so when your skills are soso. So when I got drone skills up, I started to use blasters as additional anti-cruiser weapons, rather than main source of firepower. For that, 4 small neutrons were more than enough. I used the grid for a med nos and tanking. Tanking is important on a blaster boat that can't evade fire.
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Veaon
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:56:00 -
[16]
I havent got heavy drones yet but they are next on my list (after some more learning skills that is)
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 19:59:00 -
[17]
If you have a problem with my on-line advices, stop reading them.
Engineering V is pretty much a must-have skill for any cruiser pilot. Hell, most frigates need it. With Engineering V, you'll have 875 grid. 5 Ion cannons leave you with 125 grid. Add two Power Diags, a Medium Armor Rep, some Hardners and an Afterburner. (Youll need an MWD for PvP, i REALLY doubt youll have any use for one for NPCing.)
Then again, you can use Electrons, which are quite good too, compared to their Pulse / Autocannon counterparts. Easier to fit, and you might even get a Damage mod in to make up for the drop in damage.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Veaon
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Posted - 2005.03.26 20:06:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Veaon on 26/03/2005 20:09:14
Yes I do have a problem with it but your last post was finally helpful, though why couldent you have said that origionally?
Yeah I plan to get engineering to lv5 of course. Thanks, Ill keep what you said there in mind and try it out as soon as I can.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 20:26:00 -
[19]
I'm just annoyed at all the people continuesly whining.
"OMG Amarr overpowered. NERF!"
We then had Apocs running around with 1400mms + shieldtanks for a good 8 months
"OMG Minnies rock. NERF"
Minnies whined for a good 7 months.
"OMG Amarr suck. BOOST"
We now have the current situation
"OMG Amarr overpowered. NERF"
+
"OMG Caldari overpowered. NERF."
I thought you fell under the whiny category. You were just genuinly asking a question, hence my last post tried to answer that.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.03.26 20:42:00 -
[20]
Elve, i really wonder what makes you so bitter...
I'm not whinig, but fact is that:
Blasterthron has no chance vs raven at all, unless raven pilot is moron or n00b. (tested, started at 5km => no chance, he was low on cap when i was in hull, but he still had 10% shield)
Has no chance vs Arma if they start at 15km, cause even if you manage to get close you are going to get hit while maneuvering bs around arma.
And i guess thorax with plate has 50% more chance than MT at killing gankageddon at 15km.
And don't say blasters are fine, bs sized are not, sorry.
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Miner's Bane
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Posted - 2005.03.26 20:49:00 -
[21]
The problem with blasters is mostly limited to the battleship level, thanks to the confluence of several unrelated factors.
At the cruiser and frigate levels, blasters are more then effective. For a thorax, get a MWD, get 5 light neutron blasters, and get a 1600mm armor plate. Yes, you will have cap issues with a armor repairer. Live with it.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.03.26 20:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: LUKEC
Has no chance vs Arma if they start at 15km, cause even if you manage to get close you are going to get hit while maneuvering bs around arma.
Thats pure bull****.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.03.26 20:54:00 -
[23]
HMM,
put t2 med pulses onto thorax(good for intys )
1600mm plate, 3x hardeners and aru
I can easily take 2 AF out without getting seriously hurt(when both went down, i had still like 80%+ armor).
With maxed cap skills you can even repair armor in battle(not forever, but for some time it works)
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.03.26 20:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: LUKEC
Has no chance vs Arma if they start at 15km, cause even if you manage to get close you are going to get hit while maneuvering bs around arma.
Thats pure bull****.
Ever seen arma with t2 megapulses and 8hs2. I had no fckin chance... and i really don't know how to improve my setup exept if i forget about all dmg mods and put like 5 t2 adaptive nanos on...
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 21:19:00 -
[25]
I already admitted large blasters could use some work. Preferably the ships theyre mounted on though. My alt only uses small and med ones though, so i cant really comment on them. They may need a small tracking bonus, or more damage. More cap use though. Yes, more. Lots more damage though. Essentially able to kill another BS in 20-40 seconds. So, before its cap dies.
As for the Raven comment. I know. Ravens need a nerf, and a good one. But then again, i also realise that a Raven is pure crap in a fleetbattle, so that part needs boosting again. How to combine both, i dont know. For now, just dont engage Ravens i guess. Ravens and Scorpions are the only BS i avoid in my Sacrilege too.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.03.26 21:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
As for the Raven comment. I know. Ravens need a nerf, and a good one. But then again, i also realise that a Raven is pure crap in a fleetbattle, so that part needs boosting again. How to combine both, i dont know. For now, just dont engage Ravens i guess. Ravens and Scorpions are the only BS i avoid in my Sacrilege too.
Fleet battles are the least common type of PVP in eve. Most is small scale combat where the raven just flat out dominates.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 21:29:00 -
[27]
Ofcourse, and i realise that. But any nerf to the Raven will make it even more obsolete for fleetbattles. I really liked the agility thing, but that still doesnt fix Torpedoes making mincemeat of closerange ships. Hell, Ravens dont even have to change setups from fleet to 1v1. Just load another ammo.
It's a pity really.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Azmodaus
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Posted - 2005.03.26 21:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
I'm just annoyed at all the people continuesly whining.
"OMG Amarr overpowered. NERF!"
We then had Apocs running around with 1400mms + shieldtanks for a good 8 months
"OMG Minnies rock. NERF"
Minnies whined for a good 7 months.
"OMG Amarr suck. BOOST"
We now have the current situation
"OMG Amarr overpowered. NERF"
+
"OMG Caldari overpowered. NERF."
I thought you fell under the whiny category. You were just genuinly asking a question, hence my last post tried to answer that.
 so true, so true
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Nyk0n
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Posted - 2005.03.26 21:51:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Nyk0n on 26/03/2005 21:52:43
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
I already admitted large blasters could use some work. Preferably the ships theyre mounted on though. My alt only uses small and med ones though, so i cant really comment on them. They may need a small tracking bonus, or more damage. More cap use though. Yes, more. Lots more damage though. Essentially able to kill another BS in 20-40 seconds. So, before its cap dies.
As for the Raven comment. I know. Ravens need a nerf, and a good one. But then again, i also realise that a Raven is pure crap in a fleetbattle, so that part needs boosting again. How to combine both, i dont know. For now, just dont engage Ravens i guess. Ravens and Scorpions are the only BS i avoid in my Sacrilege too.
Started well, ended badly.
The raven is fine, its the missiles effectiveness against smaller targets the problem, and its always been this way (think cruise crows)
Ithink the problem is that the rav is now the only BS that can kill frigs wholesale, the ship itself and its weaponry are fine the problem lies with its ammo
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.03.26 22:20:00 -
[30]
what about outdmgin & outtanking MT at 3km....
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 22:23:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 26/03/2005 22:23:34
If you'd bother to read the sentences after what you bolded, you'd notice i said exactly what you're saying nyk0n. Raven needs a nerf in a certain department, and a boost in another.
A change, if you will.
EDIT: Spelling.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.03.26 22:32:00 -
[32]
raven needs:
7gunslots,4missile
10% to hybrid range,5% to dmg
grid to support this
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 22:36:00 -
[33]
No. Raven should be a missile boat. Scorpion on the other hand...
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.03.26 23:10:00 -
[34]
why really? i've heard about it, but EW will be short range... so rails on scorp are pointless... I just wonder why not raven rail platform... missile ballance in 1 move
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Cheim
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Posted - 2005.03.26 23:24:00 -
[35]
Originally by: LUKEC
why really? i've heard about it, but EW will be short range... so rails on scorp are pointless...
The Scorpion is slated to get an EW optimal range bonus, so EW will not be short range for it and rails will not be pointless. |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.26 23:26:00 -
[36]
Yay. So you get 100k range. That's too short.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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DARTHxFREE
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Posted - 2005.03.26 23:36:00 -
[37]
back to the main question,
every body was disapointed when they 1st get a cruiser and stick medium guns to it,
u miss every thing and hit for 9 damage
but get those skills and get blasters and hit for near 200 average
blasters aint good for tech 1 frigates, but i've slowy moved from 150 duels....to 250mm.....200mm.....to my all anode neutron max damage-0 tank set up and it eats....
was so hopeing to get a megathron and kit it for max neutrons and see those Tankers try laugh that off( with a EW buddie of course)
>:-E3 !!!rrraY I'm an anti pirate,...life's the wrong way round. |
Cheim
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Posted - 2005.03.26 23:37:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Yay. So you get 100k range. That's too short.
I make no claims as to the desirability of the EW changes. I am merely pointing out for LUKEC's benefit that the Scorpion's EW range will be rail range; hence, changing the Scorpion to be more railesque would not be unreasonable even after the revamp. |
budhead
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Posted - 2005.03.26 23:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Nyk0n
The raven is fine, its the missiles effectiveness against smaller targets the problem, and its always been this way (think cruise crows)
if you got over 10mil sp in gunnery and can hardly kill a raven pilot with half of that sp in total, i think smth is wrong... and i dont want to know what happens if t2 launchers are in...
Savespot! |
DARTHxFREE
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Posted - 2005.03.26 23:56:00 -
[40]
this is a never ending subjuect....now some ones gonna say its not imba, its just your rubish....
how's aboot we all trade ships and see it from all points of view before saying ravens are fine
>:-E3 !!!rrraY I'm an anti pirate,...life's the wrong way round. |
Veaon
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Posted - 2005.03.27 03:14:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Veaon on 27/03/2005 03:16:48
Edited by: Veaon on 27/03/2005 03:16:22
Edited by: Veaon on 27/03/2005 03:15:07
Elve I couldent really fall into the whiney category, Im only a month old.
Hi Lukec you pwned me once, first time I got killed by a PC :)
From my own testing I feel missiles are overpowered but I may be wrong. Thats not what this thread is about though, its about blasters.
Mabye I will try a pure dmg rax setup with no tank. You guys have given me some ideas...Miner's Bane, could you expand on that setup a bit? When I was using small Neutrons with a MWD before, I constantly overshot targets and went out of my range.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.03.27 04:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
No. Raven should be a missile boat. Scorpion on the other hand...
Aye aye!
Make the Scorp a railgunner platform :)
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Nekhad Jormuzzar
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Posted - 2005.03.27 04:38:00 -
[43]
There's an incredibly long thread about that setup (called Blasterrax) buried somewhere in this forum. Should be accesible through the setups thread.
Basic principles are saving grid and cap by using light neutrons, and devoting said resources to equip a 1600 armor plate (that gives you some more time) and a better armor tank along with the mandatory MWD and webber (and disruptor for PvP).
Just enter a close orbit around the highest turret damage dealer (to avoid it's fire) and unleash blasters and drones.
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Jarmon Karlentis
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Posted - 2005.03.28 13:15:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Veaon
From my own testing I feel missiles are overpowered but I may be wrong. Thats not what this thread is about though, its about blasters.
Mabye I will try a pure dmg rax setup with no tank. You guys have given me some ideas...Miner's Bane, could you expand on that setup a bit? When I was using small Neutrons with a MWD before, I constantly overshot targets and went out of my range.
I have rather limited experience with a blasterax, I use the moa more often because of the range of rails.
Blasters are close range (obviously ), so you need to fit a MWD otherwise you stand no chance of hitting your target, the problem with this is that as you approach your target with the MWD on, as you said you will both overshoot your target, and also you will be moving at too high a transverse velocity to hit your target.
When you get to about 1/2 way to your target, kill the MWD, as you approach it you will start to slow down and should find that you are able to hit most times with the blasters, once you get to your optimal + 500m or so, select keep range, that way you should be able to hit your target often and for max damage.
I use ion blasters, they are slightly easier to fit, particularly with low skills, and track much better and have a higher ROF than the neutrons, they don't do as much damage but they hit more often.
Also never forget your drones. They are one of the most important weapons you have. Get drone interfacing to level 3, and heavy drones to 4.
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Veaon
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Posted - 2005.03.28 13:24:00 -
[45]
Thanks for all the help, I've been trying out some new setups, god I wish my skills we're all at lv5 ;)
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.03.28 15:13:00 -
[46]
they will be... eventually...
rax >>>>> other cruisers
but bs blasterboat need lots of love
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