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Case Study: Ice Fields: High Sec vs Low Sec

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pussnheels The Fiction Factory 665	Posted - 2012.10.23 06:30:00 - [31] - Quote Problem is not that there id ice in highsec , main problem is that icemining is a long and boring proces that tends to be done AFK compared with normal mining , moving icebelts to low sec will only raise the price of ice products , probably so high that everyj item that needs a Blueprint will go up in price aswell People will not go to low sec to mine it that is a fact and nullsec ice mining will not be able to keep up with the demand it can hardly keep up with its own demand and the different isotopes used on different towers and capital ships will only complicate matters in my opinion leave them where they are and if miners are to lazy to rtank their macks or AFK mine they only got themselves to blame I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 958	Posted - 2012.10.23 06:39:00 - [32] - Quote King Rothgar wrote: It is basically tailor made for bots and afk mining but the eve economy requires so much of it that if CCP actually banned every ice miner bot in the game the entire eve economy would collapse. A collapsed economy in a pretend spaceship world sounds like a lot of fun. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 958	Posted - 2012.10.23 06:41:00 - [33] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Speaker for TheDead wrote: Your first mistake is to assume that anyone aside from you cares about the ice fields or fail "Ice-interdictions" Most people are completely unaffected by this little mini-game, and probably don't even know it's an issue. This ^^ Warped a cloaky into a team of 3 macks on a field in a 0.5 an hour or so ago. Decloaked for a laugh. No-one moved. Did you ship scan them first? Maybe they were supertanked and just waiting for somebody to try a gank. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
Touval Lysander Zero Wine 468	Posted - 2012.10.23 06:45:00 - [34] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: King Rothgar wrote: It is basically tailor made for bots and afk mining but the eve economy requires so much of it that if CCP actually banned every ice miner bot in the game the entire eve economy would collapse. A collapsed economy in a pretend spaceship world sounds like a lot of fun. According to your senior ~~economist~~ leader, it's not fun. For him. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander Zero Wine 468	Posted - 2012.10.23 06:46:00 - [35] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: Speaker for TheDead wrote: Your first mistake is to assume that anyone aside from you cares about the ice fields or fail "Ice-interdictions" Most people are completely unaffected by this little mini-game, and probably don't even know it's an issue. This ^^ Warped a cloaky into a team of 3 macks on a field in a 0.5 an hour or so ago. Decloaked for a laugh. No-one moved. Did you ship scan them first? Maybe they were supertanked and just waiting for somebody to try a gank. Possible. Didn't try. Have BM. Will, errr, look into it. "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
D4mane Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2012.10.23 08:06:00 - [36] - Quote I request you make a different thread for each question. I only have 6000 characters (why not 9001 CCP) to answer and this is clearly not enough. But if you insist: 1. No 2. No 3. Yes 4. No 5. Yes 6. Not really. 7. Yes 8. Maybe 9. No 10. No 11. Yes 12. Yes 13. Yes 14. Yes 15. No 16. Definitely 17. No 18.Yes 19. No 20. No 21. No 22. Yes 23. I don't get this. (I'm being verbose) Disclaimer: I have genuinely spent the last hour and a half reading and coming up with my answers, this is not a troll.
Klymer Hedion University Amarr Empire 56	Posted - 2012.10.23 10:31:00 - [37] - Quote So how do we make Ice profitable? profitable compared to what, running 4s in a drake or running sites in a carrier? How do we cash in on this massive POS Fuel market? somebody somewhere is making all those pos fuel blocks that are on the market and I'm sure they're making some isk off them. I guess they're better at pos fuel market pvp than you are. How will removing Ice from 0.5+ affect the Ice Market? make it worse than it already is What will such a change do to the POS Fuels Market? he who controls the spice controls the universe Would any change to the Ice Supply be workable? depends on who you want benefitting from the change Would industrious corporations and players shift to low sec to mine Ice? hahaha you really expect people to change their play style? What would such a change do to the Mineral and Ore markets when the 99% refuse to leave high sec to mine Ice? not much probably, ice isn't as widely used as ore What would Low Sec Ice Mining do to the Barge and Exhumer Market? again not much, same as above Would the blow back from AFKbears be sufficient reason to not make this shift? nope, they would probably switch to mining something else if they don't ragequit. How would this affect players that gank Ice Miners? Would it be a positive change? who cares about them? How will this affect the Low Sec Piracy population? hahahaha.... How will this affect the Low Sec Anti-Piracy population? the who? If Ice is moved to Low Sec only, what about exploration based Ice Belts that deplete or have limited duration? it would just be another annoyance involved with mining ice Who does High Sec Ice benefit most? people who want to mine ice Who does High Sec Ice benefit least? those who know better than to mine ice Who would Low Sec Ice benefit most? not the people who think it would give them more easy targets Who would Low Sec Ice benefit least? again, those who know better than to mine ice Would you stand to benefit from Low Sec Ice? Why or Why not? nope, don't have a pos, don't need a pos. How would Low Sec Ice affect or be affected by Faction Warfare? those guys are too busy farming to bother with ice mining, well until this latest patch they were lol. I guess now they're too busy trying to figure out how to exploit the new system. What is your overall opinion on a shift of all Ice Fields from High Sec to Low Sec? Please be verbose. Limiting a resource to one area isn't going to solve anything. I think it would suck just as bad as limiting pvp to only one of the regions.
Mike Adoulin Trans-Aerospace Industries 34	Posted - 2012.10.23 11:08:00 - [38] - Quote All I can say is I can't wait for the new ORE frigate to arrive so people can start more threadnaughts as they start bitching about gas harvesting and how profitable/unprofitable/noobish it is. Delicious tears await!!
Val'Dore PlanetCorp InterStellar 58	Posted - 2012.10.23 11:10:00 - [39] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Val'Dore wrote: Lors Dornick wrote: Val'Dore wrote: Ice is not profitable. So why do you bother with the issue? Do something that is fun instead. Well, every other post in this thread has been off topic... why should yours be any different? "Ice is not profitable." << That's what you said. "Who cares" << is pretty well what everyone else has said. Thus, any solution you offered is sorta void because, for most of us, there is no problem. I didn't offer a solution. I asked people what they thought would happen if a change like that was made. Perhaps, I should have left out the 'subjective' parts of the OP.
Opertone Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels 156	Posted - 2012.10.23 11:13:00 - [40] - Quote How do you protect 200 mill exhumer from gank? Even if local pirates offer patronage for a fee and let miners into low sec, what can prevent random attacks on barges? How large a force do you need to protect yourself from a multi carrier hot drop??? Will there be any market for ICE left or everybody will mine forthemselves.
I Love Boobies All Hail Boobies 164	Posted - 2012.10.23 11:14:00 - [41] - Quote My fat, juicy wallet would beg to differ that ICE isn't profitable. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs.
Inquisitor Kitchner Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes 238	Posted - 2012.10.23 11:16:00 - [42] - Quote All I've got from this thread so far is that the GRRR GOOONS! are doing ice miners a favour by raising prices.
pussnheels The Fiction Factory 667	Posted - 2012.10.23 11:22:00 - [43] - Quote Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: All I've got from this thread so far is that the GRRR GOOONS! are doing ice miners a favour by raising prices. sort of yes ,, and the ones who are smart will make a killerprofit try and see it as natural selection I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Peter Raptor Galactic Hawks 294	Posted - 2012.10.23 11:25:00 - [44] - Quote Ice only in losec???? Nobody in their right mind is going mine ice in losec, and even if a very few do with the support of a dozen tengus or something, sitting there doing nothing but "protecting", White Glaze prices will skyrocket through 10 million per block or something; Eve becomes broken. Ice mining in losec is suicide, no miner logs in to commit suicide. Evelopedia;-á The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 1955	Posted - 2012.10.23 11:30:00 - [45] - Quote Simply moving all/most mining to gravimetric sites will put some thinking/elbow grease back into the activity. Note that the easier an activity is, the less ISK/hr you'll make from it (in general, FW plex exploitation not included). Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Tali Ambraelle Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.10.23 12:45:00 - [46] - Quote Peter Raptor wrote: Ice only in losec???? Nobody in their right mind is going mine ice in losec, and even if a very few do with the support of a dozen tengus or something, sitting there doing nothing but "protecting", White Glaze prices will skyrocket through 10 million per block or something; Eve becomes broken. Ice mining in losec is suicide, no miner logs in to commit suicide. This. Let the miners mine. Don't force your want for more killmails on them.
TheGunslinger42 Bite Me inc 430	Posted - 2012.10.23 13:05:00 - [47] - Quote There should be no such thing as static ice. Arguably ice shouldn't be in hisec either. More ice in low, null and wormholes, but not in the form it's in now.
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 57	Posted - 2012.10.23 13:26:00 - [48] - Quote More grav sites with comet scraps and gas everywhere! Red Maiden: People actually play with WiS off? Why? It's really well done, and adds an excellent layer of immersion in the game. Plus, my character's ass is out of this world and I like looking at it.
Plaude Pollard Crimson Cartel 85	Posted - 2012.10.23 13:47:00 - [49] - Quote James 315 wrote: Val'Dore wrote: Disclaimer: I respectfully request that this topic be discussed with all seriousness with no trolling or harassment. Request denied. The whole "ice in highsec" thing must be regarded as a failed experiment. Let's get those ice fields out of highsec and into low/null right away. Why are you against High-sec Ice Fields? If CCP removes them, the New Order would serve no purpose... I'm not saying Ice belongs in High-sec. Just asking a simple question. New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of your choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
Tobiaz Spacerats 708	Posted - 2012.10.23 14:04:00 - [50] - Quote ICE is profitable. The amount of players sucking on ice cubes every day proves that. Problem though is that most of them they are AFK. It's not likely too many of them are bots, simply because that's not necessary if you only have to check in every 45 minutes or so. A problem though, is that there is no way to make more money by actually paying attention or being a 'better' miner. But perhaps the roid mining business should be changed to be come profitable 'active mining', leaving ice mining for the AFK people that are just looking to make a few million isk/hour while doing their homework or browsing ****. It really shouldn't be hard for CCP to remove the static belts, make gravimetric belts respawn everywhere across regions (chance modified by security level and regional differences) and increase the despawn timer of gravimetric sites to a month. This will introduce regional scarcity with incentives to go into more desolate and dangerous systems. It will make roid mining also the profession of choice for 'active' miners where player skill in running a more complex or dangerous mining op actually pays out. To make sure the economy won't suffer due to the decrease in people mining roids, this should be balanced by a major increase of mining yield. Result: less miners, but each making a LOT more ISK/hour, yet all together bringing in the same amount of minerals on the market with prices comparable to now. In the mean time, the lazy and the stupid miners will still have ice, so everyone can continue to play the way they like. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Mhax Arthie University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.10.23 15:07:00 - [51] - Quote Plaude Pollard wrote: James 315 wrote: Val'Dore wrote: Disclaimer: I respectfully request that this topic be discussed with all seriousness with no trolling or harassment. Request denied. The whole "ice in highsec" thing must be regarded as a failed experiment. Let's get those ice fields out of highsec and into low/null right away. Why are you against High-sec Ice Fields? If CCP removes them, the New Order would serve no purpose... I'm not saying Ice belongs in High-sec. Just asking a simple question. Because he is a goon and they need all of the valuable resources only in their yard to cover the costly war effort expenses, it's really not rocket science to understand that.
Simetraz State War Academy Caldari State 448	Posted - 2012.10.23 15:20:00 - [52] - Quote The question is does a majority of ICe go to Null. IF the answer is yes then based on the distribution of ICE consumed in a POS only one thing needs to be changed. Double faction Ice output from 350 to 700 in Null space. And perhaps add it to one of the scannable sites in null. The small would be a good one, unless there are people that really enjoy mining that SPOD (ie replace that rock for ICE) As far as ICe being a problem in high-sec, why ? That is like saying Veldspar is a Problem in high-sec. EVERYBODY KNOWS

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