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DIsposible Hero
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 00:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not necessarily talking about Cynabals as such, but rather that whole class of ship. Fast moving frigates and/or cruisers with the ability to dictate range. However it usually is a Cynabal, so lets stick with that. Obviously if a Cyna doesn't want to engage, there's not a lot I can do to force them, but I want to maximise my chances of tackling one and holding them long enough for a friendly gang to catch up. I don't care about beating them 1v1; if they see a ship that stands a chance against them 1v1 they'll just bolt. I want to get in, apply tackle and hold them down until help arrives. In that respect, it would also be helpful if the ship doesn't appear to be a threat so that they'll want to engage it. I fly mainly Minmatar but I can retrain if there's a better ship that does what I want.
The qualities I'm looking at are:
- Speed - Tackling ability - Tank - Price (not a major concern, but I suck at EVE so it would help if it were something disposible!) - Appearence of threat (IMPORTANT! How likely the Cynabal is to engage)
I've written off interceptors as too fragile but if someone can correct me then great. So far my candidates are:
- Wolf: Fast, a lot of tank for a frig but can't apply a full tackle. Cyabal would probably be willing to engage a solo Wolf but it might not survive long enough - Jaguar / Firetail: Very fast, can apply a full tackle but probably not tanky enough - Vagabond: Good all round, a bit expensive though and not really fast enough to catch a Cynabal. Cyna would probably just run. - Stabber: Very disposible, almost as fast as a Cyna, but made of wet toilet paper. - Stabber Fleet issue: Fast, good tank, but still not really fast enough. Frigs will run, Cyna might engage. - Rupture: Very disposible, can fit a good tank, neuts and full rack of ECM drones, but not really fast enough.
At the moment I'm looking at getting a Jaguar, and perhaps a Stabber for testing purposes. I can move on to more expensive ships once I know what works and what doesn't. |
Worpout
Tribal Liberation Force
30
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
What you will need: 1. Friends 2. Rapier + links
Then hope he dont warp before the rapier can lock him and you can point him. Can also do an arazu as well for the long range point, |
DIsposible Hero
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 01:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Worpout wrote:What you will need: 1. Friends 2. Rapier + links
Then hope he dont warp before the rapier can lock him and you can point him. Can also do an arazu as well for the long range point,
Problem with a Rapier is they're not likely to just sit there and just let me creep up to them cloaked; they're going to be constantly moving and I'm not going to catch up without a MWD. I also have no idea what sort of tank a Rapier packs.
What links, btw? |
Dracan02
I N E X T R E M I S Fidelas Constans
6
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Posted - 2012.10.26 01:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
DIsposible Hero wrote:Worpout wrote:What you will need: 1. Friends 2. Rapier + links
Then hope he dont warp before the rapier can lock him and you can point him. Can also do an arazu as well for the long range point, Problem with a Rapier is they're not likely to just sit there and just let me creep up to them cloaked; they're going to be constantly moving and I'm not going to catch up without a MWD. I also have no idea what sort of tank a Rapier packs. What links, btw?
a raipier with skirmish links can web at about 50km so if you duel web him and use a long point and fight at about 30km (link long point should go all the way out to 32ish km) you will not have to tank too much dps because you will be well into his fall off unless he is using arti's, fit 200's instead of 425's so you can kill his drones and there goes half of his dps. a fleet should be no more then a minute or 2 away, so all you have to do is not die. oh and you can fit a CovOps cloak so you can pick your engagement better Rapier: trapper Damage Control II Capacitor Power Relay II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Capacitor Battery II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II,EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II,EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II,EMP M Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
this fit should do it well enough, tho it will be a fair bit more expensive if you lose it.
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Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
38
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Posted - 2012.10.26 02:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
vigilant, provided you get tackle
a cyna pilot could engage one if he's confident he'll stay out of web range, get some webs with links and you're golden |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
720
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 02:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
rapier *shrug* |
Lenny Snipes
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 04:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Play with the Stiletto, reduced MWD sig is helpful, TD to negate his guns,125s to kill his drones and prayer. |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
148
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 09:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dracan02 wrote:DIsposible Hero wrote:Worpout wrote:What you will need: 1. Friends 2. Rapier + links
Then hope he dont warp before the rapier can lock him and you can point him. Can also do an arazu as well for the long range point, Problem with a Rapier is they're not likely to just sit there and just let me creep up to them cloaked; they're going to be constantly moving and I'm not going to catch up without a MWD. I also have no idea what sort of tank a Rapier packs. What links, btw? a raipier with skirmish links can web at about 50km so if you duel web him and use a long point and fight at about 30km (link long point should go all the way out to 32ish km) you will not have to tank too much dps because you will be well into his fall off unless he is using arti's, fit 200's instead of 425's so you can kill his drones and there goes half of his dps. a fleet should be no more then a minute or 2 away, so all you have to do is not die. oh and you can fit a CovOps cloak so you can pick your engagement better Rapier: trapper Damage Control II Capacitor Power Relay II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Capacitor Battery II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II,EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II,EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II,EMP M Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I this fit should do it well enough, tho it will be a fair bit more expensive if you lose it.
Ok, first, Dat fit;
[Rapier, Lol Cap Stable is for people who are bad.] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Warded Ladar Backup Cluster I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Damage Control II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I Cynosural Field Generator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
(Swap the Invul for a Point if needed)
Second, Learn to EFT format.
@ OP; A curse would perform pretty well tbh, Faction point and an optimal range TD, hold him at like 30, ownzone, if you have mates a Rapier/Huginn + a few BCs would be fine, if the Cynabal pilot is bad then Dual Web Drake/Armour Cane would both perform admirably.
The problem with the Cynabal is its speed basically allows the choice of engagement, and if it doesnt want to play, then its pretty hard to put in a situation where it has to.
If you could get it to engage a Curse, I fly this in gangs;
[Curse, Curse Point] Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Capacitor Power Relay II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Corpii A-Type Small Nosferatu Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I True Sansha Medium Energy Neutralizer True Sansha Medium Nosferatu
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5 Valkyrie II x5 Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
Add a few Drone Damage mods and I would bet on the Curse winning that fight.
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Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
129
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 11:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rapiers.
The bane of all things Cynabal, Vagabond, frigates and, to an extent, Talos and Tengus when you've got friends. |
Worpout
Tribal Liberation Force
30
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 11:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
The only problem with using recons is that he is likely to know the danger when he see them on scan. Even if they decloak, he is very likely to warp before you even get a chance to lock him. |
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Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
129
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 11:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Worpout wrote:The only problem with using recons is that he is likely to know the danger when he see them on scan. Even if they decloak, he is very likely to warp before you even get a chance to lock him.
Well, if you are always assuming a certain degree of competency from your oposition, why bother trying to catch anything?
People in their kiting ships sometimes DO like to goof around. Even when they see fleets. With two Rapiers. And probes out. They STILL think they can kite everything and that going at 2Km/s while hitting at 40Km is all they need.
It
http://www.iberians.org/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17659
is
http://www.iberians.org/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16887
not
http://www.iberians.org/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17662
A bonused Rapier at a gate and scoutless small, fast prey, and Bob's your uncle. The Rapier is a wonderful tool when you need to pin fast things, and that's the best advice we can give, actually. |
Reuqh Dew
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 11:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lachesis with scram, damps and some shield tank. Dunno what Cynabals think about it tho.
Pilgrim. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
867
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 12:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bait Iteron 5, web scram and kill it ! brb |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
235
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 12:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Executioner for long point tackle og Atron for short range tackle AND dps |
Tru Love
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 13:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
The unwanted bastard child of rust-origin might work, perpahps.
[Hyena, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Gistii B-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive Domination Warp Disruptor Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Tracking Disruptor II
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Barrage S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Barrage S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
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Skelee VI
Wraithguard.
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 16:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
A dram with dual prop can hold long enough for friends to come by. have to keep tight orbit or dead. |
feihcsiM
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 18:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Skelee VI wrote:A dram with dual prop can hold long enough for friends to come by. have to keep tight orbit or dead.
The problem there is the med neut that a lot of cynabals fit will ruin your day. They are a bugger to catch, anything that can catch them they can pop easily, anything that can kill them they can run from. Any single-ship solution is always going to be a bit of a gamble.
I'd suggest something specifically fit to just pin one down, something like:
[Caldari Navy Hookbill - Cynabal Tackler]
[High Slots] 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I - Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket - (To pop drones) 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I - Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I - Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
[Med Slots] Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Small Capacitor Booster II - Navy Cap Booster 150 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster - Cap Booster 50
[Low Slots] Gravimetric Backup Array II - (mitigates ECM drone effectiveness to some extent) Damage Control II
[Rigs] Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Processor Overclocking Unit I Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Needs max fitting skills. 149/176OH dps. 3480 m/s. Cap stable when un-neuted without using cap booster.
This fit 100% relies on getting in close. Act like a noob. Make him come to you off station/gate, ideally sat in a belt / at celestial. If he drops anything more than 20km from you just warp to next celestial. The idea is to make sure he sees where you go. Rinse & repeat, hopefully he'll think you're running from him, will chase you hoping for a nice faction frig kill and eventually **** up and drop close.
Overheat your mids, dive in close, get tackle, establish a nice tight orbit & hope he's fit with 425's and has barrage loaded. Get your gang in. Make any drones your primaries, especially ECMs. Stagger your cap injector with his neut cycles, You can usually get the cap booster reload in before he neuts you out and pulls range unless you're really unlucky, but if not you have only 40 - 50 seconds before you lose tackle.
You can drop the ASB for another cap booster and gain the ability to tackle indefinitely until you run out of charges at the expense of popping in just a couple of volleys if things go wrong.
Tested on sisi twice against a friend in a cookie cutter cyna. Managed to get a cap booster reload in both times in before I DIAF, tackle held for about 2.5 mins. ECM drones didn't jam me, (sensor strength 18 with the backup array but down to chance ofc.)
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. |
Dread Pirate Pete
Tribal Core Defiant Legacy
94
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 20:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Really? Every proposal comes down to "get tackle, wait for backup"?
Friends, the hard counter to every situation! Ask goons! |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
594
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 20:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
got i hate those damned cynabals bunch of no talent cowards http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
238
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 21:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Honestly I just use my loki
[Loki, Cynabal Tackle] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Gyrostabilizer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating Armor Explosive Hardener II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Domination Warp Disruptor
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Hobgoblin II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
It has a low engagability rating but if you catch them in a bait situation or a gate camp, theyll never get away. |
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Red Teufel
Blackened Skies Nulli Secunda
83
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 23:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
brutix + web drones. :} |
Lenny Snipes
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 02:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:Really? Every proposal comes down to "get tackle, wait for backup"? Friends, the hard counter to every situation! Ask goons!
OP asks what to tackle with until help arrives... duh. |
DIsposible Hero
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 02:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lenny Snipes wrote:Dread Pirate Pete wrote:Really? Every proposal comes down to "get tackle, wait for backup"? Friends, the hard counter to every situation! Ask goons! OP asks what to tackle with until help arrives... duh.
Exactly. I don't care about getting the kill myself, I just want to disable the guy until help arrives (~30 seconds).
We (kind of) successfully caught the guy today. A Wolf scrammed him and was able to keep him that way until an Azaru arrived, which was then able to hold him until the rest of the gang caught up. Not ideal though; we lost the Wolf and the Azaru was almost into structure. I think I might have to give the Rapier a try. Loki sounds ideal, but its also expensive. We had one in our gang and I noticed the Cyna would immediately warp off if the Loki appeared on grid. |
Martin0
Maximum-Overload
87
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 07:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:brutix + web drones. :}
Web drones are terribad, sorry (remember, they have stacking penalties). |
Maeltstome
the unified Negative Ten.
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 12:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Rapiers.
The bane of all things Cynabal, Vagabond, frigates and, to an extent, Talos and Tengus when you've got friends.
If i see a lone rapier in a vaga/cyna within web range, i will bum rush it. A rapier will not live more than 20-30 seconds if they overheat and crash into you.
This is a throwback to the old 'nano' phase of eve. people where like "lawl, huginn > vaga, easy kills". ANy vagabond pilot who know they can't warp off will just overheat their top rack and cut the recon in half before backup arrive.
The cynabal compound the issue since it has more EHP and damage. TH e stiletto is a better choice imo for baiting it into a fight and not dieing. |
nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 13:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
[Arazu, ar]
3x 250mm Railgun II (Javelin M) Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
2x Large Shield Extender II 2x Remote Sensor Dampener II (Targeting Range Dampening Script) True Sansha Warp Scrambler Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II 2x Power Diagnostic System II
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
4x Infiltrator II
dampens cyna targeting range to 14193, while scramming to 22500 |
Donnerjack Wolfson
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 18:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
I used to say the Catalyst.
But the last four cynabals I tried to engage in a catalyst ran away instead of shooting me.
It's really, really scary, since if they're smart, they can kill me in a heartbeat. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly
154
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 19:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
For a cookie cutter cynabal pretty much any frig with AB , TD scram and nos can solo one. Condor works especially well
nos+scram+ab+td
Cyn cant neut you, cant hurt you once you kill drones, will take 10m to kill but the km is oh so sweet.
Toughest part is getting tackle, however they are an arrogant bunch these cynabal pilots. Use FW plex gates to your advantage. Its not too hard to get him to land @ 0 on you. Its really easy if he is expecting an easy kill.
Using rapiers, t3s , arazus, etc is ******* ********. Only cyn pilot you will catch with those is a ******** one. QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
Earl Hazard
Lightbringer's Sanctuary RAZOR Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 00:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
Just get yourself another Cynabal. |
Maeltstome
the unified Negative Ten.
104
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 12:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:For a cookie cutter cynabal pretty much any frig with AB , TD scram and nos can solo one. Condor works especially well
nos+scram+ab+td
Cyn cant neut you, cant hurt you once you kill drones, will take 10m to kill but the km is oh so sweet.
Toughest part is getting tackle, however they are an arrogant bunch these cynabal pilots. Use FW plex gates to your advantage. Its not too hard to get him to land @ 0 on you. Its really easy if he is expecting an easy kill.
Using rapiers, t3s , arazus, etc is ******* ********. Only cyn pilot you will catch with those is a ******** one.
Talking absolute trash. You will never get into range with an AB. And he will neut you until your tackle turns off anyway, one blast of his MWD and you die to his guns.
MWD, Nos, Web, Scram, local repairer. Only way you can survive long enough for backup to arrive. |
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