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Syrec
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Posted - 2005.04.01 03:48:00 -
[1]
Is it very difficult? Have there been any rogue missions where a bunch of enemies have attacked and destroyed your POS, or pieces of it?
That would be quite an expensive loss, so I'm wondering how durable these things are. How long would it take 20 frigs, or 10 cruisers to take out a chunk?
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Lagartija Nick
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Posted - 2005.04.01 03:49:00 -
[2]
If its offline, its easy as pie, if it's online and armed, I don't really suggest it.
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Syrec
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Posted - 2005.04.01 03:57:00 -
[3]
Hm, so I guess they are invincible at the time being. I heard also that you could blockade a POS and then perhaps attack it when it's out of power?
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Lagartija Nick
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Posted - 2005.04.01 04:05:00 -
[4]
Maybe in 0.0, but still, I wouldn't consider that a valid tactic, all it takes is one indy to get through your blockade and you'd be sitting there for at least another week.
In empire, forget about it. It would take a massive, and I mean massive pool of people or a very stupid POS operator to blockade a POS.
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Iyam Urfather
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Posted - 2005.04.01 04:06:00 -
[5]
you have at least 2 gates at the system. You'll need to camp each with enough ships to stop any large group of ships from breaking through. You'll need to keep those numbers up 23/7 for as long as the pos has fuel. If you can do that then sure taking out a pos when offline would be possible.
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.04.01 05:42:00 -
[6]
Given that POS are (at the moment) near invincible by design, you need to resort to alternative methods of attack.
Namely: Infiltration, Bribery and Corruption.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
 Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Darkslayer
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Posted - 2005.04.01 06:47:00 -
[7]
An assault is possible, but you will have more trouble with lag than actually loosing ships to the pos (unless it has any missile launchers or large guns plus some ew).
Been in an assault, had to reduce resolution to 800x600, 16bit, all options minimum and still about 1fps. The shield refreshes after each hit causing massive clientlag when 30 bs were firing on it. Some people got so ****ed they left. With shield at ~27% the enemy managed to break the gatecamp, forcing everyone to retreat from the assault. No chance to tank pos+battleships inside shield..
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LtCol RTButts
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lagartija Nick
Maybe in 0.0, but still, I wouldn't consider that a valid tactic, all it takes is one indy to get through your blockade and you'd be sitting there for at least another week.
In empire, forget about it. It would take a massive, and I mean massive pool of people or a very stupid POS operator to blockade a POS.
just place an POS alt there with a hauler full of needed fuel for some days. nobody can cut u off from supplying a POS, nobody is able to blockade something 24/7 over days. there is always timewindow in the blockade. if u think 1 hauler is not enough, place some in the energyshield.
only chance to kill really a pos is to burn all its ammo fast. some tousand shuttles and the towers are all empty. if he cant supply the turrents with new ammo ,,, bye bye. all otherways re not possible when he has fitted 6+ small/medium guns. but, i never heard from any successful pos attack that was defended by 6+ guns. all i heard was undefended pos or pos that run out of fuel.
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Zeta Draconis
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: LtCol RTButts
only chance to kill really a pos is to burn all its ammo fast. some tousand shuttles and the towers are all empty. if he cant supply the turrents with new ammo ,,, bye bye. all otherways re not possible when he has fitted 6+ small/medium guns. but, i never heard from any successful pos attack that was defended by 6+ guns. all i heard was undefended pos or pos that run out of fuel.
What if he has laser turrets?
Just curious.
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:52:00 -
[10]
He's right, all you need is a bunch of hauler alts logged off inside the forcefield. Presumably, any corp which can afford one in the first place, can afford to stockpile some fuel and log off a few alts.
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LtCol RTButts
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Posted - 2005.04.01 13:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zeta Draconis
Originally by: LtCol RTButts
only chance to kill really a pos is to burn all its ammo fast. some tousand shuttles and the towers are all empty. if he cant supply the turrents with new ammo ,,, bye bye. all otherways re not possible when he has fitted 6+ small/medium guns. but, i never heard from any successful pos attack that was defended by 6+ guns. all i heard was undefended pos or pos that run out of fuel.
What if he has laser turrets?
Just curious.
i ve never tested laser turrents live, but i heard from others that the lense get a damage percentage. but, who really cares if u cant attack them for hours with a complete attackgroup. u only need to log on for 1 minute to refill it and give your attackers hours of fun. to understand it right, 6 small POS turrent kill a full tanked apoc in 2 volleys. to fit ECM on a POS is only burning CPU power and is complete useless currently. jamming and so on on turrents in pointless. everything that is within the forcefield cant be attacked or locked to jam it. u ve to kill the energyfield first, after that u can fill the turrents. we had an attack of one of ours at the beginning, of a smaller battlegroup of 5 BS. not a single one was existing after 30 seconds or managed to stear the ship in the opposit direction to escape. we had only 4 small, 2 med and 2 CM launcher. the CM launchers were complete useless in that battle.
so, as resume. i think u can manage to prepair an POS to get attacked by BS, cruiser and so on (not including dreadnought/titan because not ingame). u only need to get the POS out of ammo with thousands of shuttles over hours. bad thing is, u need although very long for the energyfield with all it's hitpoints and ability to recharge fast. BUT, if they manage to get only a single alt only who refills the turrents, or they jump in in a covert op ship with ammo, belive me, your glorious attachgroup gets slaughtered. u ve no chance to escape.
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Tar om
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Posted - 2005.04.01 16:01:00 -
[12]
Worth checking to see if the owners forgot to put the crystals in :)
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
Diablo NJ
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Posted - 2005.04.01 17:28:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Diablo NJ on 01/04/2005 17:28:45
Is it really worth it? Lets say you do take out the forcefield and the turrets......what do you accomplish from this?
Can you sieze the other structures? or just destroy them?
Seems pointless to waste hours or days battling a POS to obtain nothing from it.
Diablo NJ
CEO Itch Corp. |
Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.04.01 19:58:00 -
[14]
True, as things stand, attacking a POS will usually result in the attackers losing far more money than the owners, even if the attack is successful. It is certainly not an economically viable activity.
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Syrec
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Posted - 2005.04.01 20:50:00 -
[15]
Originally by: jamesw
Given that POS are (at the moment) near invincible by design, you need to resort to alternative methods of attack.
Namely: Infiltration, Bribery and Corruption.
Very creative. By corrupting the person responsible for refueling the POS, you could setup a time for the POS to be vulnerable. I like your thinking style
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.04.01 22:45:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 02/04/2005 02:29:39
If you don't have large turrets mounted, your POS can be taken down. We almost learned this the hard way...
Turrets cycle targets, so with enough attackers, you MUST be able to kill a BS in 1 volley, or they can take you out.
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Mari Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2005.04.02 00:29:00 -
[17]
group of us tried to take out an offline pos, 4 BS +2 curisers, took us 2 hours to get about 10% off the shields, you need serious numbers to take out an offline pos
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
LtCol RTButts
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Posted - 2005.04.02 01:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 01/04/2005 22:45:03
If you don't have large turrets mounted, your POS can be taken down. We almost learned this the hard way...
Turrets cycle targets, so with enough attackers, you MSUT be able to kill a BS in 1 volley, or they can take you out.
hmm, ours did 2 volleys to the same target and it was doomed. a changingcycle of 1 shot is hard.
so, what was the dimension of that attackgroup ? 40, 50, 70, 100 BS ??? it must be a great planed operation to keep that masses oonline in a single attack. for a ravenfleet u would need haulersupport and turning attacksqauds to redeploy the ammo, same for hybrid and projectil i think.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.04.02 02:26:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 02/04/2005 02:28:35
Originally by: LtCol RTButts
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 01/04/2005 22:45:03
If you don't have large turrets mounted, your POS can be taken down. We almost learned this the hard way...
Turrets cycle targets, so with enough attackers, you MSUT be able to kill a BS in 1 volley, or they can take you out.
hmm, ours did 2 volleys to the same target and it was doomed. a changingcycle of 1 shot is hard.
so, what was the dimension of that attackgroup ? 40, 50, 70, 100 BS ??? it must be a great planed operation to keep that masses oonline in a single attack. for a ravenfleet u would need haulersupport and turning attacksqauds to redeploy the ammo, same for hybrid and projectil i think.
I can't remember exactly what we had online when they began the attack, but it was something like 7 small hybrid turets and 3 medium hybrid turrets, on paper that is more than enough to roast a BS, but in practice it doesn't cut it if they tank kinetic and thermal and have like 20+ bs's. I think the attacking force varied between 30 and 100 bs's over about a 10 hour period...yeah people don't like us.
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.04.02 07:36:00 -
[20]
I can tank 5 medium railguns from a POS for a good 10minutes while still being able to fire torps at it in a scorpion.
if I had someone giving me cap,I could do it indefinitely.
10 guns, maybe 1/2 the time and one mroe person giving me cap.
The POS guns are not that strong.. that forcefield can take a beating though, I wish CCP would lower its hitpoints.
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.04.02 07:43:00 -
[21]
oh, this is only if I know exactley what guns the POS is using. If you use different gun types (ALL POS SHOULD) then I'm screwed. If your POS isn't doing all damage types, you're vulnerable to me.. not that I kill POSs but I know I could if I really wanted to (with help and lots of time... and a reason)
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
David McKai
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Posted - 2005.04.02 13:46:00 -
[22]
Just wait for Dreadnoughts!
BFS which uses X-Large turrets and is intended for an Anti-Battleship and Anti-Station/Starbase role.
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Orb Lati
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Posted - 2005.04.02 22:55:00 -
[23]
perhaps inorder to make POS a little less indestructable CCP should alter the code so that turrets can only be anchoured outside the sheild bubble and ships can not shoot agressors unless they are also outside the shield. (ie the shield workes both ways)
if CCP then increased the armor and shielding to the turrets making them more resilant you would introduce a more tactical approach to taking down POS's
IE Get enough fire power, setup 3 BMS (SS <-> fire point <-> SS in a stright line ) then warp in and out while fireing a savo at a turret until all offense is destroyed and then sit back and start bombarding the sheild.
At the moment the dreadnoughts feel like a bandage to cover up the fact that maybe CCP screwed up the basic idea of a POS.
(I admit i ***** a bit about POS's but i guess im just a bit upset about how this aspect of EVE, which had the possiblity to totally revolutionis the game and give players regional power, is just so screwed up now by
a.) releasing them too soon without any tactical aspects to them and
b.) screwing up running and manufacturing aspects assocuated with them.)
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
LtCol RTButts
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Posted - 2005.04.02 23:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Orb Lati
perhaps inorder to make POS a little less indestructable CCP should alter the code so that turrets can only be anchoured outside the sheild bubble and ships can not shoot agressors unless they are also outside the shield. (ie the shield workes both ways)
if CCP then increased the armor and shielding to the turrets making them more resilant you would introduce a more tactical approach to taking down POS's
IE Get enough fire power, setup 3 BMS (SS <-> fire point <-> SS in a stright line ) then warp in and out while fireing a savo at a turret until all offense is destroyed and then sit back and start bombarding the sheild.
At the moment the dreadnoughts feel like a bandage to cover up the fact that maybe CCP screwed up the basic idea of a POS.
(I admit i ***** a bit about POS's but i guess im just a bit upset about how this aspect of EVE, which had the possiblity to totally revolutionis the game and give players regional power, is just so screwed up now by
a.) releasing them too soon without any tactical aspects to them and
b.) screwing up running and manufacturing aspects assocuated with them.)
they re good as they re, not every 3 head king of the hill group should be able to attack them. CCP wanted to implement something big for groups of people with organisation skills, and so it is good they add only the possibility to kill it with high skilled larger groups. it would e a big joke when 150km + gatecampergroups can kill with equal tactics those POS. get the right numbers and stuff in addition with the right planing and timeinvestment to kill a POS. joke killing them randomly because u are bored to death would be unfair in those investments.
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Orb Lati
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Posted - 2005.04.04 01:12:00 -
[25]
i didnt think my suggestion was that out of place.
In the end a POS needs to be killable if they are ever to be used as a tactical asset for allaince control of 0.0 space.
(assuming CCP ever introduces moduals which give allainces bouns informaiton or firepower in their home systems)
Allowing offensive weaponry to be mounted within the powerful POS shield bubble just means that there isnt anyway other than the duboius method of starving them out.
(and i doubt anybody wishes to attempt to coordinate a system blockade over multple weeks when there are always RL issues to be delt with).
You need to consider that the shield itself will last a long time even with a large fleet bombarding it and while i suggest offensive weaponry whould be mounted outside including ships shooting at the attackers i see no reason why any ship reinforcing the shield with sheild transferes could not stay within the bubble.
The shield itself gives the POS owners more than enough time to mount a defense.
(either thier own or using pre establish Merc Contacts, or alterntaively bribing the attackers)
I just wish for a tactical approach to taking down a POS as i consider being able to create an indestructable fortress with only a control tower and 1 small gun a bit screwed.
I guess i feel that if a Corp or allaince cannot amass the defense to defend thier assets then they should not complain when they lose them to superior forces.
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Justin Cody
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Posted - 2005.04.04 03:12:00 -
[26]
orb I agree with most of what you say. The only problem I see is going to be balancing XL weapons in the first place. That is unless they only get a damage bonus versus structures. The ships would have their own range bonuses and secondary ability i.e. RoF/Damage/Cap Use/ etc.. plus the whole range thing is gonn have to be worked on or I am going to see a dreadnought with tracking mods insta locking pods from 3000KM and sniping. (not a bad idea, but the non-pvpers would moan to no end.
==========
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Syrec
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Posted - 2005.04.04 20:22:00 -
[27]
I completely agree Orb. Attacks on POS' would be lots of fun. It's not that POS' need to be easily killed.. the attack should last for some time, but it shouldn't be so impossible. In my opinion, if a corp can afford to put up a POS with so many turrets.. they should have at least a small defense of combat ships to help defend against attacks, no?
As it is right now, I could go setup my own POS in a 1 man corp.. and if an alliance decided to attack it, I could sit inside the shield bubble and laugh at them all night long.
In short, POS' should be able to get destroyed.. but not so easily that alliances can fly around easily wrecking every POS.
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Ranx Xerox
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Posted - 2005.04.05 08:12:00 -
[28]
Fact is that pos are the last end in Eve, all people will be so happy to have one... It's cost days of hard works and dont really give money so making easy to kill for huge patrols should make them totaly useless. Maybe the are too powerfull and should put more needs for their xlguns, but not lowering the shields, seeing when you wake up that someone just for fun have killed you monthly works in severals hours should make people leaving game.
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Syrec
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Posted - 2005.04.05 18:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ranx Xerox
Fact is that pos are the last end in Eve, all people will be so happy to have one... It's cost days of hard works and dont really give money so making easy to kill for huge patrols should make them totaly useless. Maybe the are too powerfull and should put more needs for their xlguns, but not lowering the shields, seeing when you wake up that someone just for fun have killed you monthly works in severals hours should make people leaving game.
Risk vs Reward. I thought that's what EVE-online was built on? Making POS' invincible just seems a bit carebearish to me, and also very dull and boring. POS' battles would be fun, no? Maybe those exciting risk times of EVE are over now? Many old players express views that CCP leans towards carebears and that many-a-old time PVPers left the game already patches back.
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Aralis
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Posted - 2005.04.06 10:07:00 -
[30]
True there should be a risk/reward balance and there isn't. But it's not just risk missing. There is no real reward to having them and if they could be taken down no one would bother to build one.
Medium and small towers are likely to provide an answer to both problems I'd think.
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