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Flash Landsraad
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:02:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Noriath You forget one thing in this calculation:
Player = Unlimited value
A single player can't use 10 intys at once instead of a battleship, and because of that the calculation doesn't add up.
Money value can never be used to balance two things in a game where you can't use multiple cheaper items at once...
If this was a strategy game where you can get either a battleship or 50 frigs it would work, but since you can only either use one battleship or one frig it doesn't work that way...
I blieve the guy was refering to the fact that you should use teamwork. To correct a previous analogy - 1 X-wing didn't take down the deathstar - hundreds did - its just that one managed to get through. They all worked as a team...remember? ________________________________________________ Stop Whining!!!
Level Superiority |

Flash Landsraad
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:05:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lorth Ok I learned the hard way...
Step away from the post. Walk backwards slowly, don't advert your eyes. Talk to it in a calm cool voice, and don't make any sudden movements.
Let this thread die. Like the rest of ALTNAMES posts, this one is full of missinformation, and a tottal disregard for balance. In fact, the sheer ignorance of what he says is frankly a diservace to the community.
Argue with him enough, use real numbers which dissagree with what he says, and he'll do nothing but spam the thread with "No one has refuted my arguments," in a vain attempt to keep the thread on the first page, to further the spread of ignorance.
Back him into a corner, and you'll find that he will begin the make a thinly vailed comparision of him self to Aristotle, claiming that even though he's right, we're persicuting him in an attempt to protect our dogma. The whole time spamming the thread with personal insults directed at anyone who dissagrees with the shear lunacy he types.
Eris, is there any wa we can get a premtive lock?
/signed 1000 times ________________________________________________ Stop Whining!!!
Level Superiority |

Stroke
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:06:00 -
[33]
Please don't feed the trolls. Thanks!
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:33:00 -
[34]
ôThat's why you cackle with glee as you launch your first volley of missiles and re-cloak.ô ThatÆs a little harder to pull off then it sounds. There is a 30 second timeframe before you can recloak and if they start locking you in that 30 seconds you cannot cloak.
It should be possible to pull off in groups when your not a prime target. Quick glance and people will just see a T1 frigate.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |

Hella May
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gunstar Zero X-wing > Deathstar
Wasn't it the whole fleet of x wings (+ cruisers and others) vs the Death star?
Also, you dont have a jedi knight running around inside turning off shield batteries!
Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
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Tar om
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:44:00 -
[36]
I love the way everyone is making up theoretical battles between bombers and assfrigs or bombers and BS. Lets get it clear: these ships will not uncloak for anything but haulers and mining barges. They are the submarines of the EVE world and are designed to pick on the defenceless while hiding from their escorts and friends.
Tar-om -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com |

Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:57:00 -
[37]
omg another post by altname -------------------
Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Uggster
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Posted - 2005.04.01 11:59:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tar om I love the way everyone is making up theoretical battles between bombers and assfrigs or bombers and BS. Lets get it clear: these ships will not uncloak for anything but haulers and mining barges. They are the submarines of the EVE world and are designed to pick on the defenceless while hiding from their escorts and friends.
Tar-om
Indeed.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:03:00 -
[39]
ôLets get it clear: these ships will not uncloak for anything but haulers and mining barges.ö
Speak for your self. I plan to fit full damage mods wait 10 seconds for the rats to target my friends then decloakd and spam missiles. It looks like a fun ship for PvE.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |

Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Pottsey ôLets get it clear: these ships will not uncloak for anything but haulers and mining barges.ö
Speak for your self. I plan to fit full damage mods wait 10 seconds for the rats to target my friends then decloakd and spam missiles. It looks like a fun ship for PvE.
That and if EW begins to work on NPC's you can always team up with a CO-ship who can quickly jam them for you. _______________________________________________ An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic -He who is not strong must be crafty |

LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:28:00 -
[41]
i don0t have a clue about what ccp intended to do with these... i just wonder: 5 bombers = 15cruises: uncloak, fire, cloak... bs lock time = 20s for frig.
cannot be jammed, caldari gets best one again... c'mon...
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: LUKEC i don0t have a clue about what ccp intended to do with these... i just wonder: 5 bombers = 15cruises: uncloak, fire, cloak... bs lock time = 20s for frig.
cannot be jammed, caldari gets best one again... c'mon...

now you must have some antifrig support with ya when you are in BS...
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:33:00 -
[43]
Originally by: LUKEC i don0t have a clue about what ccp intended to do with these... i just wonder: 5 bombers = 15cruises: uncloak, fire, cloak... bs lock time = 20s for frig.
cannot be jammed, caldari gets best one again... c'mon...

now you must have some antifrig support with ya when you are in BS...
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:36:00 -
[44]
ôuncloak, fire, cloak... bs lock time = 20s for frig.ö So in battle it goes uncloak, fire waits 30 seconds, try to cloak fail due to BS locking then warp out or watch your bomber explode.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |

Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:50:00 -
[45]
I think these Stealth Bombers are gonna have to use the Stealth Mod.
Otherwise we are just gonna end up with a pile of expensive space dust as these things simply cant Cloak and Uncloak fast enough,And to be effective will have to be in large groups to really spam the Missiles.
Also its gonna be a stretch to fill these thing with Cruise Missile Launchers anyway.Its gonna take abit but It'll find its niche however I cant see it being anything more then preying on weak Indy's and Frigates and on NPC's _______________________________________________ An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic -He who is not strong must be crafty |

LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:57:00 -
[46]
12s with improved cloak & skill lvl4
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pk blinder
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:58:00 -
[47]
I haven't tried them yet, so reserve judgement until I have. They look like fairly specialist tools, just like all elite frigs. Personally, I find the decloak, fire, recloak or warp out quite attractive. Whether it will be much use in an open combat situation is debatable! As with most frigs, the danger is less related to a single type of frig, but numbers. Do you worry when you see 1 Inty? Nor me. 2? hmm, might start considering my options. 3? Oh yeah, now we're paying attention. So I think these will work best in wolf packs.
My only concern is these will be uber ganking machines for secure space. I haven't seen anything yet to state how CCP will prevent that. Presumably Concord will get a mystical "see all" ability. Otherwise we're going to see a lot of unhappy traders and miners, and lots of happy ebil pirates.
Yarr 4 teh win? Not while CCP are in charge!
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ArcticWolf
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:59:00 -
[48]
Im sure the obvious has already been pointed out, but im too lazy to read, so heres why this ship will never be practical.
1) CPU needs, wow ok the amarr one can fit 3 launchers and a cloak, but even with 2 coproc 2 youll maybe be able to fill 2 of those med slots... 2) Theres a 30 second reactivation timer for the proto cloak, not sure about the others, so ok you sit there, uncloak, lock, fire, and then wait for your missiles to hit as that 2 sensor booster armageddon starts to lock you. You can either, A, hope you can reach the 30 second timer before he locks to recloak, or warp out. now if you warp out before your missiles hit, oops, they do 0 damage now! what a shame. maybe next time youll warp in closer? or maybe he will get lucky and pop u...well, so much for this ship class, i know i sure as hell wont fear them, cuz i have a special item called a smartbomb usually fitted 
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.04.01 12:59:00 -
[49]
Thought that was target lock only. Reactivation of cloak is fixed at 30 seconds and skill do not speed it up. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |

Cadman Weyland
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Posted - 2005.04.01 13:40:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tar om I love the way everyone is making up theoretical battles between bombers and assfrigs or bombers and BS. Lets get it clear: these ships will not uncloak for anything but haulers and mining barges. They are the submarines of the EVE world and are designed to pick on the defenceless while hiding from their escorts and friends.
Tar-om
Spot on description. Exactly how they are to be used, deep behind enemy lines, picking at the infrastructure. Imagine the potential carnage to mining and supply ops if Local were to be scrapped and these introduced.
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear |

Aegun Alpha
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Posted - 2005.04.01 14:28:00 -
[51]
Not sure I see a huge benefit to, say, recloaking after firing missiles, as opposed to warping off to a ss/celestial, reloading, and warping back into the fight again.
Aside from bubbles, anything that would stop you warping out would mean you were locked, which would mean you couldn't cloak anyway.
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.04.01 14:40:00 -
[52]
Originally I hated bombers.. but thinking about it.. hmm
Someone said it and gave me the idea.
Uncloak, fire your missles, recloak.. These things will be awesome from a distance of 50km+. The ultimate anti-frigate support ship. They can even do a good amount of SUPPORT damage to a battleship.
The locking time penalty is stupid though, makes these ships near useless. Can you imagine if it didn't have a locking penalty? You would need an interceptor to counter this ship. I would be ALL for that.
otherwise they're pretty unimpressive. Cruise missles are weak against any ship in the game unless you're firing 6+. ________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |

ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.04.01 14:44:00 -
[53]
nevermind, I should have read further.
Covert Op ships turned out OK. They have their uses.. people use them, meaning, they're worth it. They're a specialty ship sure, but they DO have their uses.
Bombers will find theirs. We can speculate all we want but in the end, the way they're used is what matters.
If they end up useless (Logistics ships) then maybe CPP will rebalance ________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |

Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.04.01 15:22:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 01/04/2005 15:24:21 Pretty much all ship classes in EVE so far have turned out to be useful (expect for Logistics, granted). Sure, some are useful only in specialzed circumstances, but that's the way it should be. I expect the same will be true for bombers.
I remember when AFs came out, and these forums were full of people whining to high heaven about how they were useless, expensive paperweights and that any frigate going slower than 2km/s was flat-out useless. Don't hear much of that whining anymore, in fact I've heard some opionions that AFs are *too* good :). It just took a while for people to figure out how to outfit and fly them,
And to the (idiotic) argument that a ship that costs 10x as much as another ship should be 10x as powerful: as someone already noted, that would only work if a single player could fly a fleet of 10 frigates (instead of that one bs). If a single ship type really was "the most powerful in the game" for everything, guess what? Everyone would fly that ship type, since everyone has to choose just one ship to fly at a time. Boredom city.
I think the ship types in EVE balance out pretty well, all things considered (skills required, price, insurance, etc). Flying *any* kind of ship solo is risky, there are no "I'm invicible" buttons (or "I win!" buttons). Arguably the Raven and Geddon give the most bang for the buck at the moment, but that's just flavor-of-the-month.
Back to bombers: why talk about the specs when the most important thing is being ignored: where is my $%#&% RED Tristan? Dammit! 
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.04.01 15:37:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Pottsey on 01/04/2005 15:38:33 ôPretty much all ship classes in EVE so far have turned out to be useful (expect for Logistics, granted).ö I think thatÆs a really underestimated ship for PvE. My corp makes extensive use of support ships although I am 5 days off using a real Logistics which means I am stuck with a Domi coverted to support. But its brilliant. We often let 1 high resistance ship warp in to a level 4 mission which all the rats target while the support boosts.
I cannot wait for my Logistics ship then I can cover all the gang without having to be in 7.5km. A few times people have died as they wonder 15km+ away form each other and I could not cover them. Not a problem for real Logistics ship. I wouldnÆt want to use one in PvP though.
Never underestimated how powerful 1 battleship and 1 Logistics ship is for PvE. More so when the Battleship forgets about cap and shields and just sticks hardeners and damage mods on.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |

ALTNAME
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Posted - 2005.04.01 15:46:00 -
[56]
Test sensor strengths
Raven- 22 Scorpion-24 Armageddon-17 Apocalypse-20
Bombers 17-20
It is the fact that battleships are limited in their capacity to combat frigates efficiently(faster than frigates could) is indicative of the devs particular playing style. Battleships are useless hulks. There is a reason mwd is not allowed in deadspace.
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.04.01 15:50:00 -
[57]
nah, logistics are useless. They can do good for a single BS pilot, but people don't use them for a reason. I noticed this while checking my alliance's killboard where we've killed 1 logistics cruiser and 12 assault cruisers.. assault cruisers are a bit younger then logistics as well. I don't think I've EVER seen one in game.
I have also noticed people are using a good amount of all ships. I see covert ops, I see assault frigates, I see assault cruisers... and plenty of interceptors.
bombers aren't what I wanted them to be but I'm sure they'll turn out fine. ________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |

Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.04.01 15:55:00 -
[58]
ôIt is the fact that battleships are limited in their capacity to combat frigates efficiently(faster than frigates could)ö If the Battleship has Blasters and a tracking enhancer it can take down the Bombers and frigates in 1 or 2 hits faster then other frigates. If the Battleship has missiles it to can take down the frigate fast. Or drones, smart bombs, cap neutralisers, Nos, Webbers, I donÆt see your problem.
Battleships are not limited in there capacity to kill frigates 1 smartbomb with 10km range is enough to deal with most frigates. 1 webber or 1 cap neutraliser deals with the frigate that are out of range of the smart bombs. Nos and drones also work.
ôRaven- 22 Scorpion-24 Armageddon-17 Apocalypse-20
Bombers 17-20ö Seems about right to me.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |

ALTNAME
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Posted - 2005.04.01 16:40:00 -
[59]
I guess all battleship pilots can just go to hell according to you guys. Hahahaha, and I cant return the sentiment? Extend web range now, Elite Frigate= I win button.
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Drommy
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Posted - 2005.04.01 16:43:00 -
[60]
Originally by: ALTNAME Edited by: ALTNAME on 01/04/2005 08:06:19 Edited by: ALTNAME on 01/04/2005 08:05:38 Jeez I just cant wait until these are in game(not)
20 Sensor strength(same and higher than some battleships)
Low sig radius
When the cruise changes go through ta da! you have a ship that can do full cruise missile damage against a bs, Wheras the battleships damage is reduced sometimes to 10%. LMAO. DPS calculation time.
So they have no hit points, you dont need them, 70 km targeting range, sinces its 'not fair' frigs can be hit by large weapons, and missile damage from bs versus frigs will be screwed.
I just know what direction this game is headed
No matter how much you try ccp, im not getting into a little ship. It completely ruins any semblance of realism.
Ok I will post one of the stats since it seems only 50 of 20,000 actually use test center
Amarr Purifier(Inquisitor) 19.65% reduction in cruise launcher powergrid needs/level +10% reduction in small energy weapon cap usage/level 5% bonus to missile em damage, 25% velocity while cloaked/level
s- 275 a- 275 s- 150
Armor Resists- 60 0 35 35 Shield Resists- 0 70 48 20
Capacitor- 250 Targeting Range-60km Scan Resolution- 450 Sig Rad- 45 Sensor Strength- 17 Velocity- 215 Mass- 2800 Kg
Skills Required- Frigate V, Electronics Upgrades V, Covert Ops I
The bomber stats are virtually identical, however, as the only Bomber with 3 missile slots, the Caldari Manticore is the winner over the Gallente Nemesis, Or Minmatar Hound(lol)
one word EXORCET. in real life a plane is like a drone, and exocet's take down fully fledged battle ships, with out the ships even seeing there targets, only a large missile ripping a hole in them b4 generally sinking them unless they hit it with flak. so dont moan about not rl, i cant wait for stealth bombers they look cool _______________________________________________
A good leader takes their people where they want to go A great leader takes their people not where they necessarily want to go, but ought too. |
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