EVE Search - 280 II vs 250 II

All Channels

Ships and Modules

280 II vs 250 II

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.04.06 15:51:00 - [1] I have had my Wolf for roughly one week now and have been running 4 280 II's on it. The Low slot set-up I run (I'm still working on whether or not to run a passive or active hardener) is this: 1 Small Tech 2 Rep 1 Kin Hardener (active or passive) 1 Cap Relay 1 RCU Mids are as always named Cap rechargers (Eutectic or Cap II's) Now my question is this: How big of a drop off in damage do 250 II's give you when switching from 280 II's and how much more worth it is it when it comes to your armor tank given you can stick on a second cap relay or at least a PDU II instead of the RCU? I don't want to purchase the 250 II's if it will not be worth my time in the long run which is why I am asking. No sense in wasting isk if you don't have to.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.04.06 16:31:00 - [2] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 06/04/2005 16:37:27 280 = 6.9 with 10.5 RoF 250 = 4.8 with 8.5 RoF I always round **** anyways. 5 and 7. Ooo Sounds like a TOOL song! Anyways, it is a diffrence in damage and critical shots I believe. Be hard to out DoT (Damage over Time) a 280 II with a 250 II. 10 Shots 280 = 105 Seconds 10 Shots 250 = 85 Seconds So by your 10th shot he will be on his 8th. 20 Shots 280 = 210 Seconds 20 Shots 250 = 170 So by your 20th shot he will be on his 16th. But that's not counting any reloads or ammo capacity hehe. As well Damage/missing and ect are not calculated in this. With a damage diffrence, his 16th or 8th shots could equal or suprpass your 20th or 10th shot damages. Hence why it's really up to you. So it's really a matter of tracking, CPU/PG. Obviously better tracking lets you hit faster moving targets as well helps you hit a target good to provide good damage I believe. I would use 250's just for the fact it's still a powerful gun as in damage mod. It also would save CPU/PG that you need. Overall it's a faster gun than the 280, more ammo capacity so you MIGHT get more damage in before a 280 could due to reloading or any missing. HOWEVER, due to it's insane damage mod on a 280, you could very well CRUSH people with the first volly instead of waiting around for the 250 to catch up. That's also why people like using them. Right off the bat BOOOOM! 250's are like BOOM! Then my 200 Autocannons are like PECK then after 20 seconds my Autocannons are like ROARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! :P Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.04.06 16:33:00 - [3] I have no PG or CPU issues this is all about cap and the tank which is why I'm asking for many opinions.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.04.06 16:40:00 - [4] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 06/04/2005 16:44:00 Do you miss a lot with your 280 II's on Frigates or Fast Cruisers? What's your Ave Damage? Why did you want to switch? Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.04.06 16:44:00 - [5] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 06/04/2005 16:58:06 Originally by: Damien Vox I have no PG or CPU issues this is all about cap and the tank which is why I'm asking for many opinions. Hmm I think I'm calculating this right... damagemod/right of fire x ammo... not factoring in skills/ships 280 II dps w/ EMP s vs structure 0.59633027522936 x 11 = 6.559633027523 250 II dps w/ EMP s vs structure 0.56470588235294 x 11 6.2117647058823
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.04.06 16:54:00 - [6] Also note the fact that if you drop the RCU, instead of replacing it with a cap relay for tank, you could replace it with a gyro II for more damage. 280 II dps w/ EMP s vs structure 0.59633027522936 x 11 = 6.559633027523 250 II w/ Gyro 2 would be 4.8x->5.28x 8.5RoF->7.6075RoF (I think? Not sure how RoF bonus is calculated... isn't itit 8.5*.895?) 250 II + gyro II w/ EMP s vs structure 0.69405192244496 x 11= 7.6345711468945 (like i said, not sure if this is 100% correct, think i mighta got the RoF calc wrong). As you can see, 250 IIs with a gyro 2 pretty heavily outdamage 280 IIs.
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.04.06 16:59:00 - [7] Edited by: Damien Vox on 06/04/2005 17:02:24 Average damage with Small Arty Spec lvl 3 (working on lvl 4 atm) using 280 II's is 100-110. I'm asking because if I remove the 280 II's it free's up enough PG to allow me to put either a PDU II or second cap relay in the final low slot which increases my cap recharge rate thus helping my tank. I rarely miss with my 280 II's because I orbit at 15-20km on both frigs and cruisers staying well below my optimal (26km using Nuc, and about 20km using EMP depending on target) so if they try to run or close I have time to react. I'm not going to switch out to 250 II's if its not worth it because its a large damage loss that won't help me if I can't survive long enough to kill a target. Right now I need the RCU to allow me to run 4 280 II's, if I switch to 4 250 II's I can use a PDU II (7.5% cap recharge rate increase) or a Cap Relay (20%) depending on how much power the 250 II's require. That would be why I am asking. This is purely a question about whether or not it will make my tank better or not by speeding up my cap recharge rate thus allowing me to run the tech 2 small rep longer or infinitely.
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:15:00 - [8] I'll look into the Gyro II if it pays off. I'm more concerned about engagements where I might need to tank one or two inty's or a cruiser in the long run of combat. In short engagments the Wolf is basically the king of frigate combat (not dissing the Ishkur here since I've yet to actually see what one can do) in straight up damage. I just want to survive long enough to be able to do said damage.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Damien Vox I'll look into the Gyro II if it pays off. I'm more concerned about engagements where I might need to tank one or two inty's or a cruiser in the long run of combat. In short engagments the Wolf is basically the king of frigate combat (not dissing the Ishkur here since I've yet to actually see what one can do) in straight up damage. I just want to survive long enough to be able to do said damage. Sounds like the 250's will help more then. So you can get the cap recharge bonus and shield bonus's. Just looking at DrunkOne's math to better understand the damage loss, you wont loose to much damage. Yet you still have the option to go higher damage with Gyros. But that's not your setup, you want more support for your rep, more support for your tracking (Just in case) and more support for your shields recharge/bonus. So you can better tank stuff with YOUR setup. Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.04.06 17:28:00 - [10] Aye. I always carry my secondary set ups with me to the system I'm in (can be expensive if I get ganked) so it isn't like I can't switch out quickly. I am just looking for a nice sound setup that I can use in multiple situations. The Gyro II is a very viable option if I want to do lots of damage quickly and over time if I'm fighting something I know I can handle and want to do so quickly. I appreciate the help quite a bit and will let you know if it works out alright. Watching your cap die due to your rep sucking it all away is never a good sight so I hope this will help me.
FlakKer	Posted - 2005.04.06 19:23:00 - [11] try straping on 250's and take that rc out and put in a damage mod. Should be better damage and tracking.
Sun Sliver	Posted - 2005.04.06 20:11:00 - [12] i never was patient enough to do comparisons by the numbers, rather i go out and test each option based on how quick things die and how healthy i am during and afterwards (shield, armour, cap wise). That in mind there are 2 guns i use on a wolf. 250 arts or 200 autos. generally 250s for PvP, 200s for PvE - but there are always exceptions
Sulis Quintus	Posted - 2005.04.06 20:12:00 - [13] Another suggestion if you can't decide which one to choose, strap on: 2x280 II -and- 2x250 II Instead of just using one type of gun, besides, both these guns are very similar (yet completely different). If you use BOTH guns you'll have the best of both worlds and void the whole process of debating with your inner wolf (pun intended).
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.04.06 20:20:00 - [14] Here is a rule of thumb. Always prefer a smaller gun + a damage mod over a larger gun + resource mod, when damage is the main goal. Have you tried batteries in the mid slots? the smaller the ship, the more the batteries seem to work, if you can fit them. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.04.06 21:10:00 - [15] I haven't thought about batteries simply for the sake that the wolf's capacitor is already small (I wish CCP would for once wouldn't screw the minmtar over) capacitor, PG and CPU. I need all the recharge speed I can get unless 2 Cap Relays will hold a small tech 2 that much with small batteries. As I said I will look into all the options I just need something that can last a bit in combat. Jaguars are easy to fit...Wolf's not so much since their cap is gimped and the PG is as well. If you have expierence with cap batteries please post because I've used them once and it was a bad expierence. I would assume you'd look at something like this in the mids and lows with a battery (using 250 II's in this arrangement) Mids: 1 cap recharger II 1 small cap battery (best available) Lows: 1 Tech 2 Small REp Kin Hardener 1 Cap Relay 1 Cap Relay/PDU II/Gyro II depending on PG needs.
Robstr	Posted - 2005.04.06 21:41:00 - [16] i've taken to ocasionaly putting a small cap battery 2 on my crow, and combined with 1 cpr i can hold a MWD and 20km scram almost indefinently.
Uglious	Posted - 2005.04.06 22:15:00 - [17] ignoring range or tracking, on my Thrasher I get the following dot number assuming you have EMP ammo (for the size): 250 t2: 1.020996 280 t2: 1.145604 This is accounting for damage modifier*time between each reload (including the 10 seconds to reload). In my case though, I can fit 5 280's on the Thrasher, vs. 7 250's, so there is no guess which works better. If you can fit one Gyro II with the 250's vs. the 280 config, the relative damage mod goes to 1.245778. Given that in an inty, tracking is important, I would guess the 250 will win there too, so I would go with 250's.
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.04.06 22:17:00 - [18] The Wolf is the damage dealer, Jaguar the speed Assault Frig. So no AB or MWD on the Wolf. It is a pure damage/armor tank ship.
KingsGambit	Posted - 2005.04.06 23:28:00 - [19] Get 280mm IIs...I might have a few for sale somewhere! :) ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.04.07 00:18:00 - [20] Edited by: Cummilla on 07/04/2005 00:18:32 Can an assault ship(frigate in particular) really pose a serious threat to what you see most often in 0,0, IE, the battleship? If not, then all this conjecture covers the rare case where you run across either another assault frig, frigate, or even rarer, a cruiser. I have an Enyo on one of my guys and he's fun to play, I'll grant that, but at some level in pvp when you consider the fact that I don't think he'd last long against a BS, then all the talk is only marginally interesting, eh?
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.04.07 00:24:00 - [21] well to see the recharge you get with batteries calculate like so present cap = 220 micro battery = +30 small batter = +60 recharge bonus with micro battery = 30/220 = 13.6% recharge bonus with small battery = 60/220 = 27.2% So the smaller the cap to begin with, the better the recharge boost from a battery (note that recharge time does not increase when you add a battery!). Also there is the extra cap benefit too. But battery can be hard to fit. Only if you got extra juice left over should you fit one. Sometimes with the weirdness of the minmatar ships and bonuses you can get into a position where you have that extra mw/cpu left. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Moridan	Posted - 2005.04.07 01:00:00 - [22] I would just like to note that no matter how many caps you put on your screwed if a large energy neutralizer hits ya ;) <-- grumbles a little "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
Spektral	Posted - 2005.04.07 01:38:00 - [23] a fairly easy fit that can go onto a wolf if i am not mistaken 4 250 tech 2 1 named ab 1 tech 2 cap battery 1 named armor rep (tech 2 will fit i think) 1 cap relay 1 damage mod 1 mapc that gives you alot of pg to play with and the small tech 2 battery increases your cap nicely i like using 4 280 1 rocket 1 named ab 1 eutectic 1 small tech 2 armor rep 1 kinetic 50% hardner 1 cap relay 1 mapc
Ivan Ho	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:47:00 - [24] hi, here is answer to your question, if u wana deal damage use 280II as they do 12.5x dmg with decent skills while 250II do 8x dmg with same skills, so 250II are no competition If u want safe set up with good tank use 250II as they do ok damage and tracking and tank are prety decent, but you will be as powerfull as a bit batter than 280mm tech 1 if u like to kill fast with some risk, use T2 280mm as they kik ass, just have a webber handy. so your choice, experiment a bit ;) read some posts on WOlf and see peoples set ups ;)
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.04.07 14:07:00 - [25] Cummilla, I actually feel safer in my wolf, jaguar or rifter then I do in my tempest. It is all preference. I love to pilot frigs and battleships are just...well...they feel like oversized pods to me when I fly them. I figured out this set up lastnight (note your recharge rate does not change when putting a battery on your ship from what I could tell) and it allows me to run both the tech 2 rep and the active kin hardener infinitely: 4 250 II 1 Arb Standard 1 Cap Recharger II 1 Cap Battery II 1 Small Rep II 1 50% active kin hardener 2 Cap Relay
Uglious	Posted - 2005.04.07 14:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Ivan Ho hi, here is answer to your question, if u wana deal damage use 280II as they do 12.5x dmg with decent skills while 250II do 8x dmg with same skills, so 250II are no competition If u want safe set up with good tank use 250II as they do ok damage and tracking and tank are prety decent, but you will be as powerfull as a bit batter than 280mm tech 1 if u like to kill fast with some risk, use T2 280mm as they kik ass, just have a webber handy. so your choice, experiment a bit ;) read some posts on WOlf and see peoples set ups ;) This is actually incorrect in general. If the question fundamentally is "use 280 t2's with a low slot grid module or 250's t2's without one" then the answer is "use 250 t2's". You then have the choice to put a single Gyro 2 in the low slot that would have been used for the grid module, which brings the dot (range and tracking excluded which could go either way depending on play style) HIGHER for the 250 due to the ROF and less frequent reloads. No, you won't get as high wrecking shots, but the amount of damage done will still be higher overall. As an additional point, as a general rule, I've found that Uranium gives a better DOT than EMP, due to the range modifier, the reload time, etc, although you do more explosive damage, which people seem to be quite fond of. No, your wrecking shots on hull won't be as high, but overall you can kill faster.
pardux	Posted - 2005.04.07 14:27:00 - [27] Edited by: pardux on 07/04/2005 14:34:34 Wolf = 250mm t2 and good armor tank(small t2 on auto) Jaguar = 280mm t2 and shield tank, speed and dmg Jaguar does alot of dmg with 2\3x gyro t2 and with a small gistii a-type shield booster it can tank VERY well i use on my wolf 4x250mm t2 rocket\standard launcher webb, cap recharger small t2 armor rep 2x passive hardeners 1x cap relay Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Dai'mon	Posted - 2005.04.07 14:39:00 - [28] Don't bother trying to tank a wolf just go for damage, i.e. fit t2 280's and a damage mod. You can get a decent setup but I'd only ever want to use it as part of a group. Tank a jaguar it's better at it.
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.04.07 14:47:00 - [29] I run a pure damage (4 280 II's) when I'm in a group with my wolf. When it is me and one other person or two other persons I will opt for my jaguar (if someone else isn't doing EW) or my wolf with the set up listed above so I can survive long enough to get a few kills. The Gyro II cannot be fitted if you want to tank your wolf. Yes it is a damage dealer, yes it is an awesome and awe inspiring ship with 4 280 II's fitted but I'd rather have a ship that can deal damage and survive then have one that can die in one salvo to a cruiser like it kills frigs.
Epofhis	Posted - 2005.04.07 19:58:00 - [30] hmm my damage mod w/ one gyro stab 2 is 9.987 on 250's t2 there are you happy now, my sig fits every rule. Now, no delete me pls, I promise to be good!!!11010101!!

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.