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Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
85
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 22:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
No local works for wormhole space just fine. How long ago was that made? I think CCP has had more than enough time to see that it works. We have so many crying about people with cloaks when they are lucky to have free intel to begin with. I am all for giving better scanners at the same time. I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
We were told this would be done before Dust launch during Incarna and the whiners scrapped a ton of content and employees that would have been great to still have in my opinion. |

kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D
26
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 22:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
no |

Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
340
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 22:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
People will just move on to whining about something else |

Dan Carter Murray
179
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 15:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
everyone knows how to find afk cloakers.
you have to smartbomb every inch of the solar system to decloak them.
you're welcome. |

Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
219
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 19:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
As soon as you remove local, the only people that will be in 0.0 will be the combat alts of Empire L4 mission runners on an op, and clueless idiots trying to find someone to gank in a virtually empty 0.0.
No local only works in wormspace because the inhabitants can control the access to their space by colapsing wormholes that lead to inhabited WH systems. "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
|

Abyssum Invocat
Justified Chaos
25
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 11:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:No local works for wormhole space just fine. How long ago was that made? I think CCP has had more than enough time to see that it works. We have so many crying about people with cloaks when they are lucky to have free intel to begin with. I am all for giving better scanners at the same time. I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
We were told this would be done before Dust launch during Incarna and the whiners scrapped a ton of content and employees that would have been great to still have in my opinion. Thank you but I would rather not spend 5 minutes d-scanning every system during a roam to figure out whether or not I was alone. Some parts of Eve are empty for 10 jumps in every direction, having to meticulously comb every AU with your scanner and pray no one unwittingly passed you, is not good gameplay. |

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 16:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
How about you just don't bother yourself with reading talks about cloaks instead?  |

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
239
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 16:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mortimer Civer wrote:No local only works in wormspace because the inhabitants can control the access to their space by colapsing wormholes that lead to inhabited WH systems.
There have been many times where we leave the hole open while we run sites... What we do (get this) is we put an alt in a cloaked ship about 50kms off the hole, and we actually WATCH IT! Amazing I know. Turns out you can do this with star gates as well.who knew? |

Corporate Management
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 16:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Local should be delayed for 0.0 unless you hold sovereignty and have a POS mounted with the same system that concord use in empire to relay local list to you. Much like stations, the list would only show to those who have the standings to see it. |

Sean Parisi
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
6
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 07:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Delete AFK cloaker whiners. Its the only solution - Their characters must be deleted and reprocessed in order to create more intelligent pod pilots. (Who dont suffer from paranoia issues that cripple them) |
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc
480
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 09:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
I do think there needs to be changes to local in nullsec - perhaps not going as far as to make it a clone of wh local, but something to make it a bit less useful, or at least make it require some kind of effort to be as useful as it is.
Perhaps make it a system upgrade - without the upgrade all you get is a constellation or region wide list. Some of the less interesting, less populated and less maintained systems would then understandably be worse off on the up-to-the-minute intel front. |

Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
131
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 10:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Remove cloaks and put an end to people talking about local. |

Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club Test Alliance Please Ignore
200
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 21:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore the whiney bitches? Hell that doesn't even require a patch. I used to have a clever sig but I lost it. |

Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
117
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 22:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:No local works for wormhole space just fine. How long ago was that made? I think CCP has had more than enough time to see that it works. We have so many crying about people with cloaks when they are lucky to have free intel to begin with. I am all for giving better scanners at the same time. I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
We were told this would be done before Dust launch during Incarna and the whiners scrapped a ton of content and employees that would have been great to still have in my opinion.
OP, Congratulations on your stunning display of EVE naivety.
AFK cloaking is NOT a problem, it never was.
Somebody who is AFK cannot hurt you. Grow a pair.
Dont like people in local? Removing local wont change a thing, except make you a little bit less scared.
And if an AFK cloaky person scares you so much that you go to the forums to post downright terrible suggestions, then obviously, EVE is not for you.
Here are some proper suggestions for you:
1. Hello kitty online. They love people like you.
2. World of Warcraft. Nuff said.
3. Disney.com, as you seem afraid of other people.
All of these suggestions are ------> this way.
P.S Before you unsub and leave, contract all your stuff to this toon. And the contents of your wallet while you are at it. Ill make far better use of it all than you have been able to.
|

Cajun Style
Shattered Planet
5
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 00:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
obviously they should get rid of local... when they do a total revamp of d-scan and have a sensible plan for how we will spot people incoming easily in this new, sleek, well designed d-scan UI and how we will be able to find eachother and initiate fights easily and how it will be a good UI that we will keep open all the time instead of local... chances are, though, this will never happen, or the D-scan revamp (there have been murmurs about this topic recently) WILL happen but it will be like unified inventory and have some vexing problems, take up far too much screen real-estate and everyone will ***** about it endlessly. |

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1098
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 01:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
you can't remove local without adding some form of a intel tool as replacement. CCP knows that. And no, the spreadsheet with refresh button (aka dscan) is not a replacement. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |

Graff Spee
Choke-Hold
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 05:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:you can't remove local without adding some form of a intel tool as replacement. CCP knows that. And no, the spreadsheet with refresh button (aka dscan) is not a replacement. This. I love WH space, and all of its many great dangers. But 0.0 feels emptier and bigger without intel. This would be fine if the distances were smaller, or the inhabitants more densely populated, but at the moment, this is not the case. |

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 06:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
One can judge a troll by the number of whiny poasts devoted to repudiating its alleged purpose and content. By this metric I assign you a 7/10. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed.
|

Alua Oresson
Demon-War-Lords Fatal Ascension
146
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 06:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alyssa Yotosala wrote:Shepard Book wrote:No local works for wormhole space just fine. How long ago was that made? I think CCP has had more than enough time to see that it works. We have so many crying about people with cloaks when they are lucky to have free intel to begin with. I am all for giving better scanners at the same time. I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
We were told this would be done before Dust launch during Incarna and the whiners scrapped a ton of content and employees that would have been great to still have in my opinion. OP, Congratulations on your stunning display of EVE naivety. AFK cloaking is NOT a problem, it never was. Somebody who is AFK cannot hurt you. Grow a pair. Dont like people in local? Removing local wont change a thing, except make you a little bit less scared. And if an AFK cloaky person scares you so much that you go to the forums to post downright terrible suggestions, then obviously, EVE is not for you. Here are some proper suggestions for you: 1. Hello kitty online. They love people like you. 2. World of Warcraft. Nuff said. 3. Disney.com, as you seem afraid of other people. All of these suggestions are ------> this way. P.S Before you unsub and leave, contract all your stuff to this toon. And the contents of your wallet while you are at it. Ill make far better use of it all than you have been able to.
But... I had fun playing Toon Town Online with my son when he was five. Those bots sounded so funny! http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/ |

Mexan Caderu
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 07:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
WH space has what you are seeking. Go there. |
|

Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
88
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 11:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mexan Caderu wrote:WH space has what you are seeking. Go there.
We were actually told in the beginning that worm hole space was going to be the testing ground for removing local in other parts of the game as well. I believe we have had enough time to see it works just fine without having the free warning that someone is in your system.
Having local to me is easy mode and I do not agree with people wanting their hand held even more by nerfing cloaks. Local goes against player vs player combat in my opinion. It gives a free warning to someone that someone else is there and how many. I say we should have to actively use tools ( which could be improved before removing local ) to find targets rather than looking in local and seeing how many people are where.
Thanks for everyone's constructive feedback so far. |

Juliade
Purging Maelstrom Villore Accords
4
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 12:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't believe this to be true. Removing local would hurt PVP more than it actually helps. For instance, whenever we roam, the first thing we look for when looking for a fight is wether the system has enemies in them. Removing that makes it harder to get fights.
What removing local does do however is making those easy kills easier to get. Face it, someone who runs away when someone shows up in local surely wasn't in a position/fitting to fight anyway and wouldn't put up the challenge one seeks from PvP. The disadvantages far outweighs the advantages.
How about this as an alternative: Give cloaky ships the ability to drop from local at the expense of having no local themselves and removing on board scanner, thus relying on probes entirely? |

Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly
159
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 15:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nope, **** off to wh space if you dont like it.
Removing local would destroy pvp... QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |

Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
88
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 16:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Nope, **** off to wh space if you dont like it.
Removing local would destroy pvp...
Opinions vary just like attitudes. Why do you think it would kill PvP? Maybe you could expand on that instead of trying to be some internet tough guy.
I personally think it would help because people would engage more instead of saying the other fleet has too many. To often people will just stay docked instead of even trying because they got free intel on numbers of the opposing fleet.
I realize it would actually take some effort for people to go find/avoid targets. I think it would promote more communication and pull more people into fleets. Many are afraid of the unknown and I understand that but the free intel local gives just waters down Eve PvP IMO. |

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
639
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 16:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Nope, **** off to wh space if you dont like it.
Removing local would destroy pvp... Opinions vary just like attitudes. Why do you think it would kill PvP? Maybe you could expand on that instead of trying to be some internet tough guy. I personally think it would help because people would engage more instead of saying the other fleet has too many. To often people will just stay docked instead of even trying because they got free intel on numbers of the opposing fleet. I realize it would actually take some effort for people to go find/avoid targets. I think it would promote more communication and pull more people into fleets. Many are afraid of the unknown and I understand that but the free intel local gives just waters down Eve PvP IMO.
You realize it would take more effort to find fights. So you sort of answer your own question. Lots of people in this game want more frequent pvp not less frequent pvp.
Thats a big reason worm hole space is so sparsely populated.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
88
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 16:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Shepard Book wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Nope, **** off to wh space if you dont like it.
Removing local would destroy pvp... Opinions vary just like attitudes. Why do you think it would kill PvP? Maybe you could expand on that instead of trying to be some internet tough guy. I personally think it would help because people would engage more instead of saying the other fleet has too many. To often people will just stay docked instead of even trying because they got free intel on numbers of the opposing fleet. I realize it would actually take some effort for people to go find/avoid targets. I think it would promote more communication and pull more people into fleets. Many are afraid of the unknown and I understand that but the free intel local gives just waters down Eve PvP IMO. You realize it would take more effort to find fights. So you sort of answer your own question. Lots of people in this game want more frequent pvp not less frequent pvp. Thats a big reason worm hole space is so sparsely populated.
I disagree. I appreciate your input though. |

Kazim Scumling
Judge Enterprises
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 17:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cearain wrote:You realize it would take more effort to find fights. So you sort of answer your own question. Lots of people in this game want more frequent pvp not less frequent pvp.
Thats a big reason worm hole space is so sparsely populated.
There are many reasons which makes wormhole space less populated. I believe not having local is not one of the major ones.
Compared to
1. Not having static entrance and/or exit, 2. Practically not supporting capital ships 3. No sovereignty 4. Not having NPC stations. 5. Not having easy to kill rats.
Local Chat is seriously not that of a big issue.
I don't think not having local chat will increase or decrease the PvP amount at 0.0. It will just change the ways how we PvP. |

Juliade
Purging Maelstrom Villore Accords
5
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 17:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
I propose this then: Use similar mechanics to the GCC flag. Entering grids of Stargates and Stations marks you on local. Warping away and staying off grid for 15 minutes makes you invisible in local since the comms system just assumes you are gone because of lack of communication. D-Scanning someone puts you on local *for scanned people only* (except for probes since they don't show ownership). Talking in local also makes you visible. Input? |

Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly
161
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 18:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
It's so obvious to anyone who actually PvP's with any frequency I didn't really think I needed to expand on it. Local is a tool, it's a tool to get PvP. Without it the solo pilot is ******, without it the roaming gang is nearly pointless, without it people will be less inclined to PvP because it would be much more work to find targets. Now if the only PvP you experience is blob warfare over structures like in null, then yeah I can see why you would want to get rid of it...however that's not PvP to most of us, not even close.
Another point is removing local will just protect those who do not want to PvP. I'm never interested in anything that will protect carebears, not at all. Seriously if you want to avoid PvP you should just stay in high sec or a worm hole. The brilliance of this game is the risk involved in everything you do, particularly outside of high sec. Without that this game would be like every other **** MMO out there.
Personally I typically specialize in fighting outnumbered and outgunned, there is nothing more enjoyable to me then killing **** while being blobbed and getting away. Without proper intelligence (local) I could never do that. Analyzing the risk (getting blown up) vs the reward (getting killmails) requires things like local to properly determine whether to engage or not, especially when alone. Blob warfare would even be affected, in that case one blob running from another blob would be able to get away without issue due to no local. Again this would be mitigated in null do to bubbles and so forth, but again most of us find null warfare dreadfully boring, and a bit more like pseudo PvP then real PvP.
Local is THE primary catalyst for creating PvP in Eve, removing it would be one of the dumbest thing CCP has ever done...and that's saying a lot :)
Shepard Book wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Nope, **** off to wh space if you dont like it.
Removing local would destroy pvp... Opinions vary just like attitudes. Why do you think it would kill PvP? Maybe you could expand on that instead of trying to be some internet tough guy. I personally think it would help because people would engage more instead of saying the other fleet has too many. To often people will just stay docked instead of even trying because they got free intel on numbers of the opposing fleet. I realize it would actually take some effort for people to go find/avoid targets. I think it would promote more communication and pull more people into fleets. Many are afraid of the unknown and I understand that but the free intel local gives just waters down Eve PvP IMO.
QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
639
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 18:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:Cearain wrote:Shepard Book wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Nope, **** off to wh space if you dont like it.
Removing local would destroy pvp... Opinions vary just like attitudes. Why do you think it would kill PvP? Maybe you could expand on that instead of trying to be some internet tough guy. I personally think it would help because people would engage more instead of saying the other fleet has too many. To often people will just stay docked instead of even trying because they got free intel on numbers of the opposing fleet. I realize it would actually take some effort for people to go find/avoid targets. I think it would promote more communication and pull more people into fleets. Many are afraid of the unknown and I understand that but the free intel local gives just waters down Eve PvP IMO. You realize it would take more effort to find fights. So you sort of answer your own question. Lots of people in this game want more frequent pvp not less frequent pvp. Thats a big reason worm hole space is so sparsely populated. I disagree. I appreciate your input though.
Have you ever been in something like faction war looking for fights? If you have you would know how important checking local is to find fights. In things like faction war people actually want to pvp its not like the "hunting" you find everywhere else in eve. I think this is what people who live in wormholes and want no local everywhere don't seem to understand.
The number of pvp kills per person is way lower in wormholes. In fact its the lowest for any sec area other than high sec. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
|

CataCourier
Asha' Man Corp
10
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 18:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
Alyssa Yotosala wrote: AFK cloaking is NOT a problem, it never was.
Somebody who is AFK cannot hurt you. Grow a pair.
This is one of the dumbest and most naive arguments that people make about cloaking.
I do agree a change needs to be made, but I don't think removing local is the answer- on top of that, definitely not a priority as opposed to other 0.0 changes.
Here's an idea: how about cloaking removes someone from the local list, but their ships would show on dscan and can be probed? Problem solved! Cloakers would still have the advantage (not knowing they're there), but would show up on dscan so people that are actually watching would be able to defend themselves! |

Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
88
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 19:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:It's so obvious to anyone who actually PvP's with any frequency I didn't really think I needed to expand on it. Local is a tool, it's a tool to get PvP. Without it the solo pilot is ******, without it the roaming gang is nearly pointless, without it people will be less inclined to PvP because it would be much more work to find targets. Now if the only PvP you experience is blob warfare over structures like in null, then yeah I can see why you would want to get rid of it...however that's not PvP to most of us, not even close. Another point is removing local will just protect those who do not want to PvP. I'm never interested in anything that will protect carebears, not at all. Seriously if you want to avoid PvP you should just stay in high sec or a worm hole. The brilliance of this game is the risk involved in everything you do, particularly outside of high sec. Without that this game would be like every other **** MMO out there. I typically specialize in fighting outnumbered and outgunned, there is nothing more enjoyable to me then killing **** while being blobbed and getting away. Without proper intelligence (local) I could never do that. Analyzing the risk (getting blown up) vs the reward (getting killmails) requires things like local to properly determine whether to engage or not, especially when alone. Blob warfare would even be affected, in that case one blob running from another blob would be able to get away without issue due to no local. Again this would be mitigated in null do to bubbles and so forth, but again most of us find null warfare dreadfully boring, and a bit more like pseudo PvP then real PvP. Local is THE primary catalyst for creating PvP in Eve, removing it would be one of the dumbest thing CCP has ever done...and that's saying a lot :) Shepard Book wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Nope, **** off to wh space if you dont like it.
Removing local would destroy pvp... Opinions vary just like attitudes. Why do you think it would kill PvP? Maybe you could expand on that instead of trying to be some internet tough guy. I personally think it would help because people would engage more instead of saying the other fleet has too many. To often people will just stay docked instead of even trying because they got free intel on numbers of the opposing fleet. I realize it would actually take some effort for people to go find/avoid targets. I think it would promote more communication and pull more people into fleets. Many are afraid of the unknown and I understand that but the free intel local gives just waters down Eve PvP IMO. EDIT: Also considering you do not PvP http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Shepard+BookI don't consider your opinion relevant at all, you simply do not have the experience required to even suggest this. If your main is some pvp god then you should post points like this with him so other folks would take you seriously. As it stands your point is laughable with this pvp record.
My proposal states that local should be replaced with an active tool ( improved scanner ) which CCP said they would do before they scrapped everything from Incarna because sheep jumped on the golden ammo bandwagon. I myself prefer a person to actually have to scout which funny enough could help guerilla fighters like yourself even more. I would much rather have to rely on a person to scout than someone simply looking in local to say there is this many people there and do not undock.
Yes, This is an ALT. I prefer to keep my opinions away from the people I associate with. Good or bad as they maybe. Rest assure, I am actually in close range of you in the killboard to value so highly. Most of my kills in Eve are from 0.0 not low sec though. Thanks for your reply Nex.
|

Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
88
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 19:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Shepard Book wrote:Cearain wrote:Shepard Book wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Nope, **** off to wh space if you dont like it.
Removing local would destroy pvp... Opinions vary just like attitudes. Why do you think it would kill PvP? Maybe you could expand on that instead of trying to be some internet tough guy. I personally think it would help because people would engage more instead of saying the other fleet has too many. To often people will just stay docked instead of even trying because they got free intel on numbers of the opposing fleet. I realize it would actually take some effort for people to go find/avoid targets. I think it would promote more communication and pull more people into fleets. Many are afraid of the unknown and I understand that but the free intel local gives just waters down Eve PvP IMO. You realize it would take more effort to find fights. So you sort of answer your own question. Lots of people in this game want more frequent pvp not less frequent pvp. Thats a big reason worm hole space is so sparsely populated. I disagree. I appreciate your input though. Have you ever been in something like faction war looking for fights? If you have you would know how important checking local is to find fights. In things like faction war people actually want to pvp its not like the "hunting" you find everywhere else in eve. I think this is what people who live in wormholes and want no local everywhere don't seem to understand. The number of pvp kills per person is way lower in wormholes. In fact its the lowest for any sec area other than high sec.
That is a good question. I have been active in FW for about half a year now in a very active PvP oriented Corp. Most my experience comes from 0.0 I will admit. There are people in every type of space that prefer PVE or PVP and some that do both. I do not think you can say no local only works in wormhole space when it has not even been tried elsewhere. |

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
640
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 20:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:Cearain wrote: Have you ever been in something like faction war looking for fights? If you have you would know how important checking local is to find fights. In things like faction war people actually want to pvp its not like the "hunting" you find everywhere else in eve. I think this is what people who live in wormholes and want no local everywhere don't seem to understand.
The number of pvp kills per person is way lower in wormholes. In fact its the lowest for any sec area other than high sec.
That is a good question. I have been active in FW for about half a year now in a very active PvP oriented Corp. Most my experience comes from 0.0 I will admit. There are people in every type of space that prefer PVE or PVP and some that do both. I do not think you can say no local only works in wormhole space when it has not even been tried elsewhere.
I don't think no local works in wormhole space. I would go into wormhole space allot to look for fights if it had local. The problem is I don't want to waste allot of time searching empty space for a fight.
Null sec pvp is still has allot of that "hunting" mentality. I'm glad you are trying faction war its a bit different. Here is a quote from someone who came from null sec and tried fw:
" How does FW differ from other things youGÇÖve experienced in EVE so far?
The biggest difference in FW vs nullsec or wormhole PVP is the lack of GÇ£hunting.GÇ¥ There is no GÇ£huntingGÇ¥ in FW GÇô you just undock and there are targets everywhere. You donGÇÖt have to roam 10, 20 or more systems to find a target, you donGÇÖt have to chase and bait them, you just undock and explode. I actually miss the hunt. "
http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/
She misses the hunt but I find hunting in eve and in real life way to boring. Worm holes definitely is like hunting ground if that is what you like. But keep eve diverse. Have some areas where you can just find targets and start blowing stuff up more easilly as well. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

Kazim Scumling
Judge Enterprises
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 21:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cearain wrote:She misses the hunt, but I find hunting in eve and in real life way to boring. Worm holes definitely is like hunting ground if that is what you like. But keep eve diverse. Have some areas where you can just find targets and start blowing stuff up more easilly as well.
That's why I believe an improved active scanning mechanism is "essential" before removing the local. With current d-scan it's not enjoyable for me too. |

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
640
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 21:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kazim Scumling wrote:Cearain wrote:She misses the hunt, but I find hunting in eve and in real life way to boring. Worm holes definitely is like hunting ground if that is what you like. But keep eve diverse. Have some areas where you can just find targets and start blowing stuff up more easilly as well. That's why I believe an improved active scanning mechanism is "essential" before removing the local. With current d-scan it's not enjoyable for me too. EDIT: Also "local" favors FW pilots which are avoiding combat going for PvE mechanics of it.
you make some good points about why wormholes are so empty. Especially the lack of stations. But many of you reasons sort of cut both ways. And there are many opportunities and resources that wormholes offer that low sec does not - that you didn't mention.
But anyway. When people start talking about improved scanning it either falls short, or it ends up being just like local.
Local is actually the exact information you need to avoid blobs. Lots of people in local? Is everyone in local in the same corp alliance? Is that corp based here? If the answers are yes, yes, no then you can be pretty sure engaging one of them will lead to your being blobbed.
FW is building in protections and adding other mechanics that will help prevent pilots from avoiding pvp and encouraging more frequent pvp. Removing local will just force everyone to be more cautious and risk averse due to cloaked blobs. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

PhatController
Mum Rider Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 11:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
What's wrong with free intel? There are tonnes of free things in eve, for example jump gates are free, docking in a station is free? |

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
640
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 13:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
PhatController wrote:What's wrong with free intel? There are tonnes of free things in eve, for example jump gates are free, docking in a station is free?
Although people who want local nerfed always complain that it is "free" cost really isn't the issue. Even if we had to pay 5 mill isk a month to have the information that concord has regarding who is using stargates they would still be upset.
They just don't players to see their blob until its too late. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
86
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 17:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Nope, **** off to wh space if you dont like it.
Removing local would destroy pvp...
what? so seeing 30 people jump into your system and us running away isnt destroying pvp?
imagine how many more kills you could get ! without having to use the classic maller/prophecy cyno hotdrop bait!
|

Noisrevbus
282
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 17:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote: I typically specialize in fighting outnumbered and outgunned, there is nothing more enjoyable to me then killing **** while being blobbed and getting away. Without proper intelligence (local) I could never do that. Analyzing the risk (getting blown up) vs the reward (getting killmails) requires things like local to properly determine whether to engage or not, especially when alone. Blob warfare would even be affected, in that case one blob running from another blob would be able to get away without issue due to no local. Again this would be mitigated in null do to bubbles and so forth, but again most of us find null warfare dreadfully boring, and a bit more like pseudo PvP then real PvP.
Mind you, i'm not sure if i necessarily agree with removing local myself, but...
I think it's implicit that he means in nullsec though, since he is suggestively trolling people complaining about cloaks and that issue does not really exist in any space where you don't claim systems and actively combine local with other intel tools. Based on that background i think it should be considered that the risk-reward you speak of regarding intel gathering or blob-blob scenarios are not one-dimensional when it comes to nullsec. It's a pretty interesting cat-mouse game revolving around who is "the blob for the moment" (ie., who have an advantageous position, and should be playing offensively at any given time).
Wether local should be removed or not is one question, but i don't think you should shrug off that interplay as a viable discussion so easily. There's merit to talking about it, well beyond any notion that "real PvPers fly in lowsec". Fighting outnumbered or outgunned have traditions throughout different regions in the game. One could even say that the players most renowned for it, have done so in nullsec. |
|

MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc. Against ALL Authorities
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 07:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
If you remove local I will put a 5 man fleet in a pull bubble with scouts watching the gates in the surrounding system. When you engage them I will uncloak 60 tempests and alpha away your entire fleet. It will be like getting hotdropped. Only no few seconds of warning when the cyno goes up, and I won't have to pay, house, and care for a 100bil isk ship.
I will BOPs bridge stealth bomber fleets into your system in deep safes. The first time you will know something is wrong is when the suicide dictor lands on you and 30 bombers decloak in three different formations and drop 30 bombs on you in groups of ten patterned to avoid overlap between the groups. 10 seconds after you realize there is a problem you will be dead.
We will leave cloaky cyno hictors across the map. You will never know if your next warp will land you in a bubble in the middle of hotdrop.
We will fight epic cat and mouse battles across 0.0. Bombers, cloaky snipers, and cloaky T3 gangs will be the order of the day. Paranoia will be the watchword. Any moment you may be seconds away from a death you had no way of preventing. It will be epic.
REMOVE LOCAL NOW. |

Dracvlad
Saints Among Sinners Intrepid Crossing
16
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 11:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
If WH space is a test for null and you are using that to make a judgement call on whether to remove local in null, lets make cyno's work in WH space and then see how that works and if your so keen.
People should just stop whining about cloaky AFK campers, its all about risk assessment. |

Akiyo Mayaki
Industrial Justice Corporation
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 09:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
Local chat doesn't have to go, but I see no reason for a list of people to be on its right.
|

Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
41
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 15:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:If WH space is a test for null and you are using that to make a judgement call on whether to remove local in null, lets make cyno's work in WH space and then see how that works and if you're so keen.
People should just stop whining about cloaky AFK campers, its all about risk assessment.
We already knowing Cynos dont work in nullsec, they create blobbing and mass shipping.
Whats left to test you idiot?
No local works in wh's because you can control what exits we have, you cant control that in nullsec ya tit. |

Dracvlad
Saints Among Sinners Intrepid Crossing
16
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 16:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
Your reading and comprehension skills are pathetic, idiot!
One of you WH types suggested that because having no local works in WH space they should apply it to Null, so I suggested that conversely we should develop the test further by allowing cyno's in WH space as the test was incomplete! In fact I said what you said, but your too stupid to realise it!
I find you rather amusing, please continue to make a tit of yourself!
Gibbo5771 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:If WH space is a test for null and you are using that to make a judgement call on whether to remove local in null, lets make cyno's work in WH space and then see how that works and if you're so keen.
People should just stop whining about cloaky AFK campers, its all about risk assessment. We already knowing Cynos dont work in nullsec, they create blobbing and mass shipping. Whats left to test you idiot? No local works in wh's because you can control what exits we have, you cant control that in nullsec ya tit. |

Noisrevbus
283
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 18:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
MukkBarovian wrote: We will fight epic cat and mouse battles across 0.0. Bombers, cloaky snipers, and cloaky T3 gangs will be the order of the day. Paranoia will be the watchword. Any moment you may be seconds away from a death you had no way of preventing. It will be epic.
REMOVE LOCAL NOW.

|

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
643
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 18:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:MukkBarovian wrote: We will fight epic cat and mouse battles across 0.0. Bombers, cloaky snipers, and cloaky T3 gangs will be the order of the day. Paranoia will be the watchword. Any moment you may be seconds away from a death you had no way of preventing. It will be epic.
REMOVE LOCAL NOW.

I'm thinking post was a troll. He accurately explains why nerfing local will turn the game to **** but then he says he wants to do it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

CataCourier
Asha' Man Corp
10
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 18:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
Step 1) Improve D-Scan- either range, UI, approximate range from your ship by an average AU, etc. Hell, maybe even include a D-Scan skill that increases your accuracy on the D-Scan range and a probability that it shows cloaked ship type. Step 2) Make cloaked ships show up on D-Scan (it wouldn't show what ship they are in, just an "Unidentified Ship") Step 3) Remove Local List unless people post in it (like WH) Step 4) Make cloaked ships able to be probed (That one's for me)
Problem solved. Except for whiny, lazy, carebears. |

Noisrevbus
283
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 21:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Noisrevbus wrote:MukkBarovian wrote: We will fight epic cat and mouse battles across 0.0. Bombers, cloaky snipers, and cloaky T3 gangs will be the order of the day. Paranoia will be the watchword. Any moment you may be seconds away from a death you had no way of preventing. It will be epic.
REMOVE LOCAL NOW.
 I'm thinking post was a troll. He accurately explains why nerfing local will turn the game to **** but then he says he wants to do it.
He is being sarcastic, yes.
I am expressing a slight irony over that, since his conclusion is incorrect.
The underlined sentence is a glaring example of where his attempt at logic fall flat on it's arse.
He goes on to write those long snide remarks only to sum it up based on the assumption that it's impossible to fend off any of the ideal scenarios he "would love to inflict on others". The thing is, regardless if you have access to cynos or not, the situations he describe are already possible with some modification outside of claimed and otherwise intel tooled space. So while he is being sarcastic, similar scenarios are reality for other people today. It's one of the key issues in the discussion and he's writing it off as some fable: "if only we could do this, look how exploitable, hurr hurr...".
I said earlier that i'm uncertain about my own position when it comes to the potential removal of local, and i still stand by that. His post however is yet another perfect example of why that discussion is not only eligable but also quite healthy for the community to go through. Those attempts to discredit the very discussion of the topic only serves to point out the importance of trying to keep an open mind and discuss the topic instead of barging in with some preconcieved notion and trying to be sarcastic.
You don't need cynos to surprise and overwhelm targets in WH space, and if cynos are such terrifying contraptions he could take a look at how lowsec play out today, where traffic is so high in a large portion of the systems that no one use local as an intel tool to discern potential cynos. Yet cynos are allowed there and do affect both the PvE and PvP environment. Instead, most people there actually do rely on the onboard scanner. That's something certain aspects of lowsec and WH have in common.
I'm uncertain about any drastic measures with local because i'm against any form heavy limitation to any mechanics in the game. I don't think only relying on the scanner would be better than only relying on local. The issue today is that many pilots rely quite exclusively on local (and extended use of intel from local) and that's not good either - and definately worth discussing. As with any discussion regarding balance, the discussion should revolve around finding balance between the extremes. That's far more constructive than hurling poisonous comments at either extreme. |

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
644
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 22:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote: I'm uncertain about any drastic measures with local because i'm against any form heavy limitation to specific mechanics in the game. I don't think only relying on the scanner would be better than only relying on local. The issue today is that many pilots rely quite exclusively on local (and extended use of intel from local). That's not good either - and certainly worth discussing. Complaints about AFK cloaking is a subset of that discussion. As with any discussion regarding balance, the discussion should revolve around finding balance between the extremes. That's far more constructive than hurling poisonous comments at either extreme.
I agree there is no reason for attacks. However I think local is a balanced intel tool. I think no local would almost certainly lead to allot of the problems MukkBarovian mentions, and make pvp pretty silly.
Local gives an appropriate amount of intel. It tells you who is in system and if they are in the same corp or alliance so you can hopefully avoid getting blobbed.
It does not tell you what ships they are in or even if they are docked or in pods. Nor does it tell you where people are. I don't know any pvpers that exclusively use local.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
|

Noisrevbus
284
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 23:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Cearain wrote: I agree there is no reason for attacks. However I think local is a balanced intel tool. I think no local would almost certainly lead to allot of the problems MukkBarovian mentions, and make pvp pretty silly.
Local gives an appropriate amount of intel. It tells you who is in system and if they are in the same corp or alliance so you can hopefully avoid getting blobbed.
It does not tell you what ships they are in or even if they are docked or in pods. Nor does it tell you where people are. I don't know any pvpers that exclusively use local.
That's exactly the discussion i'm trying to objectify, so we have have an earnest talk about it.
When you say something like that "you think local is a balanced intel tool", you need to compare it to the other intel tools provided by the game. The discussion about local as an intel tool and the extension of AFK cloaking (which is the particular topic this thread pertain to) talk about the balance of those intel tools in that specific environment: sovnull. AFK cloaking is generally not considered an issue out of sovnull. Local as an intel tool is also generally not considered malbalanced outside of sovnull. Thus the discussion can be objectively limited to the balance between local with intel channels and other tools (such as probes and onboard scanners) in sovnull. If you belive "local is a balanced intel tool" you also belive that the onboard scanner is as important as local in sovnull. Is it?
The same goes for the loaded words of making "PvP pretty silly" as that is not a commonly accepted definition. Some people will argue it's not silly and others are yet to make up their minds and want compelling arguments rather than blank statements. Blank statements have the same problem as sarcasm, if you meet a person who know that there is more to it, they will quickly look beyond the statement and disqualify it. If you are a keen participant in a discussion you tend to aknowledge opposing positions and appeal to the middle ground. Saying it's "silly" is rather silly.
While i am still undecided about local, i know this game well enough to having experienced alot of the options you still have to deal with a disadvantageous positions (such as being pointed by a cloaky scout). In fact, i have dealt with that from a numerically inferior position many times in both PvE/PvP and PvP/PvP. I have dealt with it through piloting, i have dealt with the attempt of it through precaution and i have dealt with it through counterception. Saying that is silly is not going to move me.
That alone is obviously not going to make me climb the fence and demand a removal of local either - but i aknowledge that it's eligable and i do so from a position that currently seem to have much more depth than what you or Mukk have presented so far. I can only repeat, i consider the scenarios he mentioned to be reality already in certain aspects of the game and i consider them far from silly. You wouldn't belive the amount of times i have escaped "certain death" through simply keeping cool and making the job of the ship(s) tackling me difficult. Flying numerically inferior in general tend to give you daily practise of that routine. It's far from silly suggesting you kill a bomber tackling you, or warp before a ship that does not have decloak-bonuses manage to lock you or actually discourage poaching by actively defending your system beyond an occassional show of force.
That comes from experience, and is not something that can be so easily written off as silly. |

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
644
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 00:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
I don't fly in sov null sec. The op doesn't seem limit his proposal to sov null sec.
I did explain why I think local is a fairly balanced intel tool. It gives you some preliminary information on a system like is there anyone even there, and are they all in the same corp/alliance (and therefore likely in the same fleet) it also tells you who they are so if they are always in a bait ship you don't need to waste your time.
IMO this basic information is not something that should require a bunch of work.
The dscan then tells us what ships they are in and with some work what location they are in.
I don't see any reason to make this process more tedious.
I really don't see a problem with the current set up. I use dscan as both offensive and defensive in pvp and pve. But again I am in low sec where there are usually people in local. So ymmv in sov null sec.
I don't see peoples complaints about seeing afk cloakers in local as having any merit at all. Stay aligned if you are not behind an accel gate. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

Xio Zheng
Forced Penetration
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 03:47:00 -
[53] - Quote
How about this.
Local stays the same, in the sence that you see how many pilots are in system in the top right. You just dont see anyone unless they talk in local. Dscan then give more info and has like double the range. If you scan a ship you can click show info on it and see the pilot info and all that. When someone is scaned and you show info on them, they apear in your local and then disapear when they leave system.
i mean thats really all local does is lets you see who is in system and see if they are in the same corp/aliance. |

Johnny Jinks
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 17:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
more whining. |

Ares Desideratus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 19:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
removing local in nullsec would be the best thing ever, null would still suck poopie tho, not sure how to fix that |

Itala D'Uhmri
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 19:10:00 -
[56] - Quote
CataCourier wrote:Step 1) Leave as is. Problem solved. Except for whiny, lazy, carebears.
FTFY |

qDoctor Strangelove
TaskF0rce Executive Vice Empire
43
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 21:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:No local works for wormhole space just fine. How long ago was that made? I think CCP has had more than enough time to see that it works. We have so many crying about people with cloaks when they are lucky to have free intel to begin with. I am all for giving better scanners at the same time. I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
We were told this would be done before Dust launch during Incarna and the whiners scrapped a ton of content and employees that would have been great to still have in my opinion.
No
|

Ares Desideratus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 22:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:Shepard Book wrote:No local works for wormhole space just fine. How long ago was that made? I think CCP has had more than enough time to see that it works. We have so many crying about people with cloaks when they are lucky to have free intel to begin with. I am all for giving better scanners at the same time. I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
We were told this would be done before Dust launch during Incarna and the whiners scrapped a ton of content and employees that would have been great to still have in my opinion. No why the **** does this bullcrap get a thumbs up noobs |

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly
242
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 23:06:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ares Desideratus wrote:qDoctor Strangelove wrote:Shepard Book wrote:No local works for wormhole space just fine. How long ago was that made? I think CCP has had more than enough time to see that it works. We have so many crying about people with cloaks when they are lucky to have free intel to begin with. I am all for giving better scanners at the same time. I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
We were told this would be done before Dust launch during Incarna and the whiners scrapped a ton of content and employees that would have been great to still have in my opinion. No why the **** does this bullcrap get a thumbs up noobs
Because some people like to fly solo and have an idea when the trap has been sprung. Plus I already have to hit that stupid dscan button enough, at least when local is empty/blue I can take a break. |

Ares Desideratus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 23:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Ares Desideratus wrote:qDoctor Strangelove wrote:Shepard Book wrote:No local works for wormhole space just fine. How long ago was that made? I think CCP has had more than enough time to see that it works. We have so many crying about people with cloaks when they are lucky to have free intel to begin with. I am all for giving better scanners at the same time. I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
We were told this would be done before Dust launch during Incarna and the whiners scrapped a ton of content and employees that would have been great to still have in my opinion. No why the **** does this bullcrap get a thumbs up noobs Because some people like to fly solo and have an idea when the trap has been sprung. Plus I already have to hit that stupid dscan button enough, at least when local is empty/blue I can take a break. You shouldn't be taking breaks in lawless space... if it's YOUR space then defend it... if you absolutely must take a break you should cloak up or dock...
Really, wanting to take breaks isn't a reason to keep local around at all. |
|

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
648
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 00:41:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ares Desideratus wrote:removing local in nullsec would be the best thing ever, null would still suck poopie tho, not sure how to fix that
Are you the one criticizing other people's posts for not adding to the discussion? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

Ares Desideratus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 00:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Ares Desideratus wrote:removing local in nullsec would be the best thing ever, null would still suck poopie tho, not sure how to fix that Are you the one criticizing other people's posts for not adding to the discussion? Nope, not me. |

Cpt Arareb
Ideal Machine Academy The Ideal Machine
34
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 00:53:00 -
[63] - Quote
ccp kill local! just kill it already! |

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
266
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 01:03:00 -
[64] - Quote
Local always has been exploited for unintended effects on gameplay.
It is high time for it to be fixed.
|

qDoctor Strangelove
TaskF0rce Executive Vice Empire
45
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 16:58:00 -
[65] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Local always has been exploited for unintended effects on gameplay.
It is high time for it to be fixed.
Remove Local Remove Concorde
There, fixed it for ya. |

Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
372
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 18:17:00 -
[66] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Local always has been exploited for unintended effects on gameplay.
It is high time for it to be fixed.
How is it unintended? Local now flashes when it spikes. Was that unintentional too?
Removing local only aids in hiding the biggest blob. There is really no advantage to anyone else. |

Cheetah Paws
Helion Production Labs Mildly Sober
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 06:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote: Another point is removing local will just protect those who do not want to PvP. I'm never interested in anything that will protect carebears, not at all. Seriously if you want to avoid PvP you should just stay in high sec or a worm hole. The brilliance of this game is the risk involved in everything you do, particularly outside of high sec. Without that this game would be like every other **** MMO out there.
having AFK cloaky campers for days does not have risk in null/low sec area
I think having afk for so long then put AFK tab next to toon on local chat  |

Dzajic
67
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 09:54:00 -
[68] - Quote
Staying in WH and avoiding PVP in same sentence. Epic troll fail. |

Darvaleth Sigma
105
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 10:05:00 -
[69] - Quote
Does nobody get it? AFK means AFK. How the **** can somebody hurt you when they're NOT AT THEIR KEYBOARD?!
The answer is NO THEY CAN'T.
So many whiny threads! Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life! |

Dzajic
67
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 11:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
No one gives a frak about your trolling. Everyone knows what "AFK cloaker" means, stop playing naive.
But for more naive lolz let me put it like this, they are not dangerous when they are truly AFK, problem is for a "AFK cloaker" you don't know when he's afk and when he's 10km from you ready to uncloak and tackle your pimped anom running PVE boat.
Trivial solutions to problem exist. For example a sov structure that can burn trough cloak if you are cloaked in system for more than a hour. Or cloaked ships building up signature strengthen over time as they stay cloaked for a long time, so you can probe them even if they are cloaked if they spent most of last 5 hours in same system cloaked. |
|

Tasiv Deka
Jadablade Redneck Rage
50
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 04:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
Dzajic wrote:No one gives a frak about your trolling. Everyone knows what "AFK cloaker" means, stop playing naive.
But for more naive lolz let me put it like this, they are not dangerous when they are truly AFK, problem is for a "AFK cloaker" you don't know when he's afk and when he's 10km from you ready to uncloak and tackle your pimped anom running PVE boat.
Trivial solutions to problem exist. For example a sov structure that can burn trough cloak if you are cloaked in system for more than a hour. Or cloaked ships building up signature strengthen over time as they stay cloaked for a long time, so you can probe them even if they are cloaked if they spent most of last 5 hours in same system cloaked.
The whole 10km away line is anti-cloaking in general... which is the problem alot of people seem to have an issue with cloaks and theyre using the "AFK-CLOAKERS ARE EVIL" as a way to try and get a mechanic they dont like removed from the game, when in reality they just need to accept the fact that cloaks are part of life in eve... as for the local removed argument to be honest i have issues with both viewpoints... but all and all i dont care which way they go. Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts...-á
The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth. |

Dea della Morte
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 16:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
Whelp, that has to be one of the worst ideas i've seen here..
No intel unless you have a scanning ship
No scams in local
No local chat period
looks like OP can't rat in his carrier in null because of a cloaki...
Here's an idea, Align out. At the first sign of anything.. warp out? I've never fully understood why this is such an issue. Literaly two clicks solves the issue. No need to take out an integral part of the game because you can't be bothered to align out..
|

psycho freak
Snuff Box
82
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 10:18:00 -
[73] - Quote
You cant get rid of local and heres why
becouse the current crop of eve players are whineing pansys who would rage quit or endlessly cry on forums
eve players have become spoonfed pansys or clueless sheep my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k
nop cant find it |

March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
329
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 13:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
Abyssum Invocat wrote:Shepard Book wrote:No local works for wormhole space just fine. How long ago was that made? I think CCP has had more than enough time to see that it works. We have so many crying about people with cloaks when they are lucky to have free intel to begin with. I am all for giving better scanners at the same time. I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
We were told this would be done before Dust launch during Incarna and the whiners scrapped a ton of content and employees that would have been great to still have in my opinion. Thank you but I would rather not spend 5 minutes d-scanning every system during a roam to figure out whether or not I was alone. Some parts of Eve are empty for 10 jumps in every direction, having to meticulously comb every AU with your scanner and pray no one unwittingly passed you, is not good gameplay. well. using wormholers logic.....
Star gates proven itself as useful. There is thousands of gates in University. They provide PvP and stuff. WH would be better should CCP add constantly placed gates into each wormhole. 
and no. They don't like local chat so we can do them favor: WH don't need local. |

Maire Gheren
Hedion University Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
To the people who say removing local would kill PVP because they'd have to scan systems down: You do realize that the converse of that is that the people in the system don't get the opportunity to see you come into the system and instantly bolt for cover where you can't find them? It's a wash. You waste time scanning systems with nobody in it, but the systems with people in it, your scanning will actually find people instead of having them hide. |

Maire Gheren
Hedion University Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 17:58:00 -
[76] - Quote
Maybe a "System info" window that we can add information from the star map filters to to monitor, have it light up the moment someone fires off a cyno. Then we can have one little window with stuff like "Average pilots in system in past 30 minutes", "Pods destroyed in last hour", and so on to keep an eye on. Of course these are all delayed as we know, so we don't instantly know to bolt and dock up the instant a couple of ships come off the gate. More info, more useful info, but not as instantly timely. As far as the channel is concerned, I notice that some of my channels only show the people who were recently talking in it. So you can still scam in Amarr local without having a big list of everyone in system. |

Eternal Error
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
200
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 18:00:00 -
[77] - Quote
+1
Since this will never happen due to whiners, just add a ~30 second delay to local in low and null. At the very least, I don't think you should appear in local until you have decloaked post-jump. |

Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
598
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:I am not fine with free intel though and that is what local is.
Dscan is free intel. As is your overview, the starmap filters, and that nice little launcher that tells you how many people are logged into EVE.
So, what types of 'free intel' do you have a problem with?
[quote=Shepard BookYes, This is an ALT. I prefer to keep my opinions away from the people I associate with. Good or bad as they maybe. Rest assure, I am actually in close range of you in the killboard to value so highly. Most of my kills in Eve are from 0.0 not low sec though. Thanks for your reply Nex.[/quote]
Admitting you're posting as an alt because you're too timid to associate internet forum opinion with your main character is fine. Claiming that hidden main character tops the killboards by mere assertion? Put up, or don't mention it at all. |

Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
109
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 20:39:00 -
[79] - Quote
When ever someone recommends this I am reminded of Zaphod's Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses.
vOv Aideron Robotics is hiring for the Gallente Federation war effort! https://www.aideronrobotics.com/wiki/Applying |

Invictus Kruegar
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 15:34:00 -
[80] - Quote
The people that want to keep Local in null are either Null bears or botters. Local is where bots notice someone in system and warp off and hide. So removing local in Null would would hinder botters income which we all want, Yes? As been mentioned Local could be an upgrade to keep them null bears happy!
Carebears- Manafacture in hi-sec Null bears- Whinge on forums.
Flame away gentleman
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M1k3y Koontz
Blackened Skies
122
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 22:05:00 -
[81] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Mortimer Civer wrote:No local only works in wormspace because the inhabitants can control the access to their space by colapsing wormholes that lead to inhabited WH systems. There have been many times where we leave the hole open while we run sites... What we do (get this) is we put an alt in a cloaked ship about 50kms off the hole, and we actually WATCH IT! Amazing I know. Turns out you can do this with star gates as well.who knew?
Oh look, a WH'er talking about how to fix something that he doesn't take part in.
You can close said WHs, you cannot close stargates.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |

Taoist Dragon
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
167
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 23:09:00 -
[82] - Quote
Removing wormholes whould increase the amount of PVP.
Ganks......not good fights though.
And once ganking increased the lvl of paranoia would increase and eve would become a wasteland. High sec would be the only regulary populated section of space. Low would ebcome worse than null and null would just be plain empty.
The only people who would enjoy this are the dedicated WH dwellers and after a while they too would get bored of 75% of the game being empty! Null is currently very bloody empty removing local would kill it off.
Improved scanners you say! Pffft! All the improved scanner ideas end up giving yuo the same information as current but with more server work/lag, more player work and probably a screwed up UI. Where is the benefit over local.
So far the no lcoal crowd are just stating their opinion that it would be better without it. If there was a serious benefit to EVE as a whole then CCP would have already tried in on mass. Just cos it's not there in WH's is NOT a valid reason to implement it eve wide. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |

Noisrevbus
370
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Posted - 2013.01.02 01:58:00 -
[83] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I don't fly in sov null sec. The op doesn't seem limit his proposal to sov null sec.
I did explain why I think local is a fairly balanced intel tool. It gives you some preliminary information on a system like is there anyone even there, and are they all in the same corp/alliance (and therefore likely in the same fleet) it also tells you who they are so if they are always in a bait ship you don't need to waste your time.
IMO this basic information is not something that should require a bunch of work.
The dscan then tells us what ships they are in and with some work what location they are in.
I don't see any reason to make this process more tedious.
I really don't see a problem with the current set up. I use dscan as both offensive and defensive in pvp and pve. But again I am in low sec where there are usually people in local. So ymmv in sov null sec.
I don't see peoples complaints about seeing afk cloakers in local as having any merit at all. Stay aligned if you are not behind an accel gate.
I'm sorry for the late reply, i had completely forgotten about this thread (in all fairness, there are so many "afk cloaker" threads made by imbeciles now that it's hard keeping up with all of them).
You are essentially repeating the point i made: In places like Lowsec there is so much traffic that no one really uses local as an exclusive intel-safety tool. In places like NPC-null it's a stronger tool as there are less people, but you still have reasonable traffic; multiple corps or alliances living out of the same systems or constellations who are neutral to each other, so a neutral character is something that is essentially always around. When everyone have equal docking rights, they have equal footing to take fights or not. In Wormholes you have no local.
As such, AFK cloaking is generally not practised in Low, NPC or WH because there is no "need" for it and because it doesn't spawn the same reaction or behaviour. There are definately people going for PvP-opportunities on PvE-efforts with stealthy ships, but they are not "AFK cloaked" as the system as a whole do not suggest neutrality as an anomaly - so active content is available to them in parity to personal actions (ie., people may run once you actively drop probes or hit their missions, plexes or belts). They do not modify their behaviour based on the local mechanics though, which is the important difference.
Sovnull represents a pretty exclusive scenario where you have a rather large amount of players who will instantly go to safety the second a neutral player enter local. They will then proceed to amass a large force (with their political allies), not to earnestly fight you - but to chase you out of local or discourage you to come back, as to not deal with you themselves. They will in many cases not even be apart of the defensive effort to push you out, or they will only play a trivial role in it.
Once again, a key difference here is that they don't want fights. They don't want AFK-cloaking to go away to combat it; what they want is the removal of neutral anomalies from local. As such there are no fights and thus no sandbox-content. They adapt a "wait and bleed" strategy.
This is why AFK cloaking exist there, the cloaker do the same, because prolonged active presence in the area is void of other options short of taking their infra (taking and holding the grid, which is all about who can commit the most resources over timers and generally excludes underhanded and thus independent play; it's not just human behaviour that has caused the EVE scale-up from 2007 onwards, it's more importantly what the game mechanics premier and the behaviour derived from that), and because that same amount of players have grown so complacent with the immense defensive advantages in those systems that they will yawp and bawl at any percievable threat that they'd need to deal with themselves in a timely manner.
That's why we see these ridiculous suggestions regarding "decloak timers" and "decloak pulses", because complacent players (who can not maintain an active presence in those systems, and de facto hold them themselves) want an advantage in the "waiting-game" (pos/station waiting, vs. cloaked timers) and in the system-holding game with "local bleed" (run to pos when the enemy is superior, decloak him to run him off when you are superior). This ultimately leads to less fights and less spontaneous hostile elements in sovspace, as there is little content to be had even if you take the initiative to go there (from multiple regions away) and provide it.
The larger ramafications are that we have seen such a scale-up since the inception of the Dominion sov-system; where not only sov-holding alliances have turned into coalitions upon coalitions, but also where "irrelevant" roaming have gone from corporation efforts to alliance efforts or more. The role of "roaming PvP" that would threaten locals in place of AFK-cloaking today is essentially maintained by such small entities as the Neo Curse Coalition or the N3 Coalition that consist of several reasonably sized alliances (1000-man outfits). They are the spontaneous "roaming PvP" providers and content-spreaders, while smaller groups are turning their sights inwards, and limiting themselves to "Syndicate", "Curse", "Providence" or "Lowsec" rather than roaming both Low and Null. Something i presume you'd be more familiar with, no?
... or why don't you fly in Sov nullsec? That is a more interesting question than anything else really .
That's where the "AFK cloakers" fly anyway, and where all these complacent players spamming these threads most likely live. |
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