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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.08 01:49:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Selim on 08/04/2005 01:51:42
...TomB know what he is talking about?
 Quote:
Hakera [hired_goon] Dear CCP. I wub you all very much. May I ask, what role do you visualize stealth bombers fulfilling? And why so little info about them, when they are so close to release?
Tomb - their role isn't a preset one you will find that they have lots of potentials
Tomb - scouting, killing stuff
Tomb - once you get them you will have to find out what you want to or have to do with it
Tomb - ill just say that they can kill bigger ships in seconds and coming on them at their desired range and in surprise
Quote:
Latta [Multiple] Will Bombers be able to use Covert Ops Cloaks, and will they receive a bonus to reduce the time to acquite lock after decloaking?
Tomb no and no
Tomb - covert ops cloak is what makes the current cloaking frigs special
Tomb - the benefit of the stealth bombers is that they choose where to start a fight at and the damage they can deal
Tomb - with better cloaking devices (improved or named) these get reduced targeting delay
Tomb - and in fleet combat they can get very painful when used in numbers
Tomb - cloak, shoot at same target, jam if targeters, recloak, change position, redo
Ok, first of all... 2 cruise missiles doesn't kill a battleship in seconds. Hell, even the stupid caldari one doesn't pack enough firepower.
Second of all, a battleship will warp out before you can finally start locking them.
Third of all... lol, frigates in fleet combat that aren't for tackling? Thats a riot. Why use an expensive to lose frigate that requires lots of skills when you can get in a battleship that does alot more damage? Besides, these things will get roasted by ravens.
And ANYTHING is powerful 'in numbers'.
I especially like the 'cloak, shoot at same target, jam if targeters, recloak, change position, redo' part. What could he possibly mean by 'change position'? You can't warp while cloaked, so its not that. Change actual position in the grid? Doesn't make sense. If you're in one of these things, changing your position is going to be the least of your worries. You can't recloak for 30 seconds, either.
Essentially, a Taranis with blasters, a proto cloak, and anything else it wants in its mids or lows is better and probably cheaper to use than these wastebuckets. It does alot more damage, is faster, and easier to fly. Harder to hit, too.
Back to the fleet combat part... why use one of these things when you can get in a megathron and do heaps more damage and have a speck of a chance at surviving a torpedo?
Sure, you can argue that 'they arent supposed to have a specific role'. That is sort of what he said. Too bad they suck at everything. They can't even do good damage. And there's a big delay for locking time. Whats the point of flying one if you can't even fire right away, and then cloak right after you fire?
Here are my suggestions:
Give all 4 of them 3 launchers.
Let them use torpedos.
Let them recloak immediately after uncloaking, and fire right after it, too.
Maybe then they'll be worth using.
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Takrolimus
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Posted - 2005.04.08 02:01:00 -
[2]
The minmatar one is underpowered though right?
Heres a suggestion: don't let the limits of your imagination or creativity be considered the same as them not having a role. Think about it carefully enough and youll see what they can be used for perfectly. Im not going to give it away.
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Roba
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Posted - 2005.04.08 02:12:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Takrolimus
The minmatar one is underpowered though right?
Heres a suggestion: don't let the limits of your imagination or creativity be considered the same as them not having a role. Think about it carefully enough and youll see what they can be used for perfectly. Im not going to give it away.
Ganking indys? 1 or two vollys of cruise******indys. With the current bonus's and stats i've seen, thats the only thing I can think of. Why, without covert ops cloak, u have slow lock times (cept when locking an indy), get raped since you can't reloak for 30 sec (cept when raping a solo indy), and you move super slow (but thats cool since indys do too).
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Amos Sommers
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Posted - 2005.04.08 02:14:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Takrolimus
The minmatar one is underpowered though right?
Heres a suggestion: don't let the limits of your imagination or creativity be considered the same as them not having a role. Think about it carefully enough and youll see what they can be used for perfectly. Im not going to give it away.
Answer: Not a god damned thing, just like Logistics Cruisers ...
Member of The Predators Corporation |
Aleis
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Posted - 2005.04.08 03:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Amos Sommers
Originally by: Takrolimus
The minmatar one is underpowered though right?
Heres a suggestion: don't let the limits of your imagination or creativity be considered the same as them not having a role. Think about it carefully enough and youll see what they can be used for perfectly. Im not going to give it away.
Answer: Not a god damned thing, just like Logistics Cruisers ...
Hey lay off My Logistics ship, and Specificly My Scimitar. ADmitedly none of the others is worth anything and you can ignore the shield transport part of it but my remote track link 2's can transfer a better bonus than Track Comp 2's can give. Hurray for minmatar being the only worth while l\Logistics ship!
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.04.08 06:17:00 -
[6]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 08/04/2005 06:17:53
I think its very stupid to put these in-game before the missile rebalance, because you cant make them good or you'll **** off every frigate pilot in existance. Give them the abilities you want to give them, and you've just built something that can one-shot any frigate anywhere.
These ships need to be postponed until after the missile rebalance so they can be brought in with a decent set of abilities. You're right that with any kind of delay for locking/recloaking they are beyond worthless.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.08 06:33:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Meridius on 08/04/2005 06:33:21
I really don't understand the rush to release these. I think we have enough tech II frigates atm.
Interceptors
Assault Frigates
Covert Ops
and now Stealth Bombers
Cruisers have..
Support Ships (utter trash)
Assault Cruisers
Battleships have nothing...
I'd like to see tech II battleships or another tech II cruiser type, i think frigates have quite enough love atm.
Oh and yes, they seem quite sucky so far (on paper).
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tenp1
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Posted - 2005.04.08 07:15:00 -
[8]
MMMM let me see
Interceptors - Of no use to anyone except for being new toys for those with plenty of isk
Assault frigates - Too slow to be of any use outside of PVE.
Thats what was said about them up to and just after their release. Now I think those idea's have been changed a fair bit since then . I suspect that stealth bombers will find their niche along with the other previously so called crappy ships. Even logistics ships have there uses and they perform quite well, even if they are limited to PVE at the mo (the guardian is the mutts nutts, it will tank nearly any ship with cap or armour repair). Wait and see, try em first and decide. By that I don't mean try them and say "my minmattar one must be worse than all the others because it minmattar, even if noone else really thinks so, boo hoo it's not fair, nerf them and boost mine".
Also I don't really see these as another class off frigs, just the other half of the covert ops frigs we never got when they were released.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.04.08 07:26:00 -
[9]
Yes, TomB knows what he's talking about.
Originally by: Selim
Give all 4 of them 3 launchers.
Let them use torpedos.
Let them recloak immediately after uncloaking, and fire right after it, too.
Maybe then they'll be worth using.
This will make them invulnerable. Literally invulnerable.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.08 07:35:00 -
[10]
You're probably right about that. (I assume you are talking about the instant recloak) They should, however, at least get the sensor recalibration time removed.
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Xeris
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Posted - 2005.04.08 08:32:00 -
[11]
Exactly, removal of the racial-damage bonus and putting in a 20% sensor recalibration bonus per covert level would be great. Or move the racial damage bonus to a per lvl of racial frig like the caldari. Why the caldari gets an inherent 25% damage bonus while the others 3 have to train for it is a bit perplexing.
Too lazy to get my sig changed |
Ortu Konsinni
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Posted - 2005.04.08 09:55:00 -
[12]
I think this topic is uncalled for. Nothing proves that the stats seen on Singularity are real, and no one here knows how the stealth bombers will behave. Also note that TomB spoke about "bigger ships", not "battleships" when mentioning how the bombers could kill them in mere seconds. You guys can start talking and moaning when you've actually tried the ships.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.04.08 09:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Selim
You're probably right about that. (I assume you are talking about the instant recloak) They should, however, at least get the sensor recalibration time removed.
I don't know if that's a good idea. I'd need to test them in real battle to know if that would overpower them.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.04.08 10:18:00 -
[14]
To me this seems like an utter waste of time, we NEED dreadnaughts and t2 bs are due imo.
Quit faffing around with frigates with cruise launchers 
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.04.08 11:07:00 -
[15]
Well, i'll back up the concern that releasing a missile based set of ships, the patch before you start missile rebalancing is..... illogical at best.
The only thing I can assume is that the've faked the Sisi stats to throw us off the scent. The line that got me is about being very painful in numbers......
The only ships that can't do that are Newb ships, Indy's and Logistics cruisers.
Oh and Selim, about your recloak instantly idea: would be a good one if cloaking had been thought through properly at the start and we'd been given some workable countermeasures to it. Problem we have currently is that anything you do to boost cloaks will unbalance them simply because of a lack of countermeasure. Shame that, as the non cov ops cloaks are of very limited tactical value.
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Vathar
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Posted - 2005.04.08 11:45:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vathar on 08/04/2005 11:47:25
One thing that keeps me puzzled is the turret damage boost the bombers get (well, not the Caldari one) ... Oh, and yes, the breacher, which is initially a missile boat, sees its frigate skill missile bonuses moved to covert ops skill bonus (not that bad, but still a bit weird IMO)...
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Space Shaman
Don't take life seriously, you'll not survive it anyway
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) yay, got my bunny too !! |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.09 00:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: tenp1
Interceptors - Of no use to anyone except for being new toys for those with plenty of isk
Interceptors are awesome and can be very cost effective if used correctly, definetly not toys.
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Alexi Borizkova
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Posted - 2005.04.09 01:34:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Alexi Borizkova on 09/04/2005 01:37:24
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: tenp1
Interceptors - Of no use to anyone except for being new toys for those with plenty of isk
Interceptors are awesome and can be very cost effective if used correctly, definetly not toys.
and that is just the point he was trying to make, at the beginning inties were seen as worthless toys, like people say the bombers are now... Personally I am "hopefully expectant" as to their end stats and nature, and very excited by the prospect of the t2 kestrel I always dreamed of.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.04.09 01:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alexi Borizkova
Edited by: Alexi Borizkova on 09/04/2005 01:37:24
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: tenp1
Interceptors - Of no use to anyone except for being new toys for those with plenty of isk
Interceptors are awesome and can be very cost effective if used correctly, definetly not toys.
and that is just the point he was trying to make, at the beginning inties were seen as worthless toys, like people say the bombers are now... Personally I am "hopefully expectant" as to their end stats and nature, and very excited by the prospect of the t2 kestrel I always dreamed of.
Thats a load of bull..... Interceptors were being hyped from the first time anyone saw their stats... because they wiped the floor with any other frigate out there. And for the most part they went on to prove that. The Crusader, Taranis and Crow especially were seen as exceptionally useful ships right from the start.
That is what a t2 ship should be all about, we should be looking at them, like we did with Interceptors, and saying 'Wow! That thing wipes the floor with anything else in its class.'
Only inties and HAC's have done that so far. As for the stealth bombers, daft time to bring them out, just before a missiles recode.
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.04.09 01:59:00 -
[20]
Welcome to the ultimate griefer ship, the tech 2 kessie.
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Olev
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Posted - 2005.04.10 11:16:00 -
[21]
that assult frigs are to slow to be of any use is just plain stupid to say, they kill anything from cruiser and down, (havent triet to mutch at bc yet,but going to kill 1) my wolf do just fine.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Olev
that assult frigs are to slow to be of any use is just plain stupid to say, they kill anything from cruiser and down, (havent triet to mutch at bc yet,but going to kill 1) my wolf do just fine.
THAT IS THE POINT, in caps since you're the 2nd that didn't get it.
You probably don't know, but what people are saying about bombers now, was said 10 times worse about assault frigates. But guess what...
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
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