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GeneralDouchbag
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
   |
Posted - 2012.11.04 17:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Often times, i find myself being laughed at when bringing the ol' phoenix into battle. People laugh at its inability to out tank the other dreadnaughts, not to mention the tiny damage that it can spit out compared to the moros and revelations. I think its time for you CCP to shed some new light on it! 
- Perhaps buffing the hell out of citadel missiles?
I find it sad when a nyx goes faster than my torps.
Also, the 30k dmg ( with all 3 missiles) in seige doesnt compare to about 21k dmg 1 gun off a moros can do.
- Buffing the phoenix itself?
The ship needs some major buffing. Everything about it makes it only worthy for pos bashing.
But yet, What Dread can't do that?
- Sexy bonus's are sexy.
- The Phoenix has a hybrid slot. But cannot use it w/o sacraficing the seige mod or 1 launcher!
WHY CCP, WHY!
Whos bright idea was that? Giving it a hybrid slot with no bonus to hybrids, or a slot to fit them effectively.
Feedback would be appreciated!
And for all you nag pilots out there. I feel your pain. |
Lumifragger Ghentenaar
Antwerpse Kerels
R O G U E
5
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 17:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
If this is a serious post, i agree that the caldari faction lacks a dreadnaught that can compete with the other races's |
GeneralDouchbag
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 17:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah i find it sad that everybody flies Moro's and revs, it would be nice to see some more of the other races than just amarr and gallente caps. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
46
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 17:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's quite dissapoiting to see the Phoenix so weak compared to other dreads. I really hope that CCP will rebalance dreadnoughts. It will probably happen after all the rebalancing changes for sub-cap, but it would be better if changes to only FOUR ships in the game were made before.
I also note that devs are rebalancing sub-cap missiles, why not going a bit further ?
*Yelling "Manticooore !" on teamspeak* |
GeneralDouchbag
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 19:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Altrue wrote:It's quite dissapoiting to see the Phoenix so weak compared to other dreads. I really hope that CCP will rebalance dreadnoughts. It will probably happen after all the rebalancing changes for sub-cap, but it would be better if changes to only FOUR ships in the game were made before.
I also note that devs are rebalancing sub-cap missiles, why not going a bit further ?
Yeah, i agree. Hopefully a dev sees this post and we can get some sort of response. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
1756
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 19:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
What we need are more dreadnaughts.... new hulls.. new roles.... something with swag.
rehashing the same old dead horse over and over... your gonna have a bad time mmmkay.
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
GeneralDouchbag
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 23:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:What we need are more dreadnaughts.... new hulls.. new roles.... something with swag.
rehashing the same old dead horse over and over... your gonna have a bad time mmmkay.
The thing is nobody ever bothered purchasing this horse, therefore its never been whipped. ;)
|
Kagan Storm
Homeworld Republic
Intrepid Crossing
60
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 03:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
The turet slot is there so you can mine with it....................................................................................................................
My ego is the the size of my carriers jump range. |
GeneralDouchbag
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 03:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kagan Storm wrote:The turet slot is there so you can mine with it....................................................................................................................
Seems legit. |
naed21
The Dark Space Initiative
8
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 04:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Naw dude, Nano Phoenix.
Not even a troll. Jump in, hit max speed, hit siege.
You are now applying full DPS and keeping transversal.
You can't be webbed, other dreads can't hit you, and if you're aligned, you can warp when you leave siege.
What other Dread can do that? |
Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds
Nulli Secunda
140
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 06:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
The phoenix has always sucked, but its more a product of citadels, than anything the phoenix itself has done.
When taken objectively, the phoenix is actually pretty good, considering that it can tank quite well. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
178
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 07:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rev is only really used because of ammo conservation. Moros is superior from what I see (double weapon bonuses). Phoenix could use love, weather it be the ship itself, or capital missiles changes, I agree. |
TomyLobo
Posthuman Society
25
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 08:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
This is also evident in a lot of capitals not just the phoenix. Amarr and Gallente seem to easily overshadow their minmatar and caldari counterparts. I find it hard to believe that CCP hasn't addressed this issue. It makes me REALLY wonder if you actually have people testing this game. |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
162
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 08:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Phoenix could get some sort of ewar bonus...
Btw: Caps need an overall review to make them useful besides structure shooting...
_______________________________________
Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.-á |
Lumifragger Ghentenaar
Antwerpse Kerels
R O G U E
12
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Posted - 2012.11.05 09:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:Phoenix could get some sort of ewar bonus...
Btw: Caps need an overall review to make them useful besides structure shooting...
Carriers are often used with sentry drones to fight off subcap fleets, Pandemic Legion has proven this to be quite effective.
Dreadnaughts, "Tracking Dreads" are also used against battleship fleets to provide support fire.
The Phoenix cannot be used against subcap fleets and therefore is only 'usefull' for structure bashing. Not all capitals need an an extensive overhaul, just the Phoenix.
My thoughts. |
GeneralDouchbag
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 20:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lumifragger Ghentenaar wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote:Phoenix could get some sort of ewar bonus...
Btw: Caps need an overall review to make them useful besides structure shooting... Carriers are often used with sentry drones to fight off subcap fleets, Pandemic Legion has proven this to be quite effective. Dreadnaughts, "Tracking Dreads" are also used against battleship fleets to provide support fire. The Phoenix cannot be used against subcap fleets and therefore is only 'usefull' for structure bashing. Not all capitals need an an extensive overhaul, just the Phoenix. My thoughts.
I agree, but yet i do also agree ccp needs to take a look at the naglfar.
Also, it would be nice if they could perhaps make carriers a bit bigger xD
|
GeneralDouchbag
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 20:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
naed21 wrote:Naw dude, Nano Phoenix.
Not even a troll. Jump in, hit max speed, hit siege.
You are now applying full DPS and keeping transversal.
You can't be webbed, other dreads can't hit you, and if you're aligned, you can warp when you leave siege.
What other Dread can do that?
post me a fit, then i'll believe you.  |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
1770
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 04:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
GeneralDouchbag wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:What we need are more dreadnaughts.... new hulls.. new roles.... something with swag.
rehashing the same old dead horse over and over... your gonna have a bad time mmmkay. The thing is nobody ever bothered purchasing this horse, therefore its never been whipped. ;)
I wouldn't know about that... I've built and sold a few in my time. ;)
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
GeneralDouchbag
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 01:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dev team, y u no like my post D:
balls 2 u good sir |
Diesel47
My Little Pwnys
304
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 01:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
naed21 wrote:Naw dude, Nano Phoenix.
Not even a troll. Jump in, hit max speed, hit siege.
You are now applying full DPS and keeping transversal.
You can't be webbed, other dreads can't hit you, and if you're aligned, you can warp when you leave siege.
What other Dread can do that?
Verify this please. |
Gypsio III
Chemikals
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
428
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 13:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:naed21 wrote:Naw dude, Nano Phoenix.
Not even a troll. Jump in, hit max speed, hit siege.
You are now applying full DPS and keeping transversal.
You can't be webbed, other dreads can't hit you, and if you're aligned, you can warp when you leave siege.
What other Dread can do that? Verify this please.
There's not much to verify, frankly. The theory is fine, although the actual tactical utility is debatable.
When you hit siege, your mass increases by a factor of 10. If you're at full speed, then you'll take forever to slow down, and because you're sieged you're immune to webs. So you spend the entire siege cycle moving at about 70 m/s. 
Your missile DPS is applied normally, assuming that hostile caps are largely stationary - which the turret ones need to be under normal circumstances because of tracking. However, hostile dreads trying to track you will have difficulties, because you're still moving at 70 m/s, reducing your received damage. Of course, blap dreads have relatively good tracking so this will be less effective, and since you can't change direction of flight of your Phoenix, then might just end up flying almost directly away from the target dreads, giving them no real difficulties in tracking you.
The Phoenix's problems are to do with a) the utter dominance of armour tanking at the capital level, b) the existence of the Moros and c) the far greater difficulty of using cap missiles in a blap role.
A can be dealt with by balancing Slaves and the Archon appropriately; B by removing the Moros's stupid ROF bonus, but C would either require severe changes to the tracking formula, or to the stats of citadel missiles. I'm not convinced that blap (super)capitals is good for the game, so the tracking formula rework hinted at by CCP after the blap Titan silliness might be the way forward there.
Even after those changes, further boost to shield caps may be required to force people to move away from their currently-trained Moroses and Archons. The greater abundance of EM/thermal damage over Explosive in large scale combat also dissuades use of shield caps.
Failing that, just make the Phoenix a shield hybrid dread. Maybe ROF and optimal range? It would probably still look a bit lacklustre in comparison to the Moros's ROF and damage, though.  |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
1782
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 14:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:A can be dealt with by balancing Slaves and the Archon appropriately; B by removing the Moros's stupid ROF bonus,
Blasphemous garbage is blasphemous garbage and should be burned with fire.
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Exhale.
20
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 15:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lumifragger Ghentenaar wrote:If this is a serious post, i agree that the caldari faction lacks a dreadnaught that can compete with the other races's
currently only things we can do is
snipe from 250k away with citadel cruise for 4.5k dps with 76k volly with only 2 mins on local tank
or
facemelt with 75km (probably much lower in winter) with citadel torps at 127k volly and 9.7k dps again only 2 mins on cap.
this is concerning me cause of the fact the other dreads can easly get 5 to 10 mins to last their siege cycle so they can get reps.
ps. make nag/phoenix have 3 turret slots and missle slots so they can be either/or gunnery or missle ships. and while your at it give the rokh 6 or 7 launcher slots too!! |
GeneralDouchbag
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 00:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:naed21 wrote:Naw dude, Nano Phoenix.
Not even a troll. Jump in, hit max speed, hit siege.
You are now applying full DPS and keeping transversal.
You can't be webbed, other dreads can't hit you, and if you're aligned, you can warp when you leave siege.
What other Dread can do that? Verify this please.
probably just some BS
balls 2 u good sir |
naed21
The Dark Space Initiative
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 22:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/64145-Nano-Phoenix.html
As requested. Haven't tested it but it seems like it'd work.
DPS is still low compared to everything but it certainly would be hilarious to see a fleet of these |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow
C.L.O.N.E.
860
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 00:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
We used the phoenix just fine with torps.
The trick is to get the cyno right in the middle of the enemy fleet. Besides, if you are seriously this mad about torps, you could always try the citadel cruise missiles
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
366
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 03:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
naed21 wrote:Naw dude, Nano Phoenix.
Not even a troll. Jump in, hit max speed, hit siege.
You are now applying full DPS and keeping transversal.
You can't be webbed, other dreads can't hit you, and if you're aligned, you can warp when you leave siege.
What other Dread can do that?
|
Tsobai Hashimoto
FATAL Warfare
15
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 05:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Pretty sure cap rebalance is comming, they most likely will do carriers along with dreads at the same time...but it will be awhile
they still have BC and BS to do, and most likely Faction and T2 ships too |
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