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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
58
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Posted - 2011.10.03 01:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have read all available CSM minutes since its been elected and i have some ideas about what is going to happen with dreads on the winter expansion.
But i'm curious to know about what other people know and/or suspect is going to be changed in them (For instance i know soundwave has dropped a suggestion about decreasing its siege time and increasing EHP). And what you think should be done with them as well.
Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
Warped Aggression
46
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Posted - 2011.10.03 01:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
siege timer reduced to 5mins
moar dps & ehp while in siege mode
thats about it |
Bienator II
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
156
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Posted - 2011.10.03 01:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
no mining bonus for ice?
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
Warped Aggression
46
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Posted - 2011.10.03 01:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:no mining bonus for ice?
nope but they should mine veldspar better |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
58
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Posted - 2011.10.03 02:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:Bienator II wrote:no mining bonus for ice? nope but they should mine veldspar better
Well now siege green would be a proper tactic for doing that.
Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
ACE McFACE
Acetech Systems
5
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Posted - 2011.10.03 04:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Im not sure what they are doing but they should make it so Carriers can't speed tank them
ZE GOGGLES, ZEY DO NOTHING! |
Mechael
Helhest 1st Prospectors' Collective
19
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Posted - 2011.10.03 05:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dreads should be an anti capship/structure platform. Outside of seige mode, they should be able to take out carriers with comparative ease (more tracking/DPS.) In seige mode, they should make shooting at structures not be such a mind-numbing experience (more DPS, less tracking.) They should have a lot of trouble hitting battleships or smaller.
I'm in favor of making seige mode primarily designed around structure shooting. You know ... seiges. Not battles in the "field." That said, I'm actually in favor of longer seige mod cycles and **** poor tracking in exchange for vastly improved DPS. A few dreads should be able to eat through a large POS in no time, at the risk of being stuck there for a little while after the work is done (meaning blobbing dreads up in one location and entering seige mode would be overkill and result in a vulnerable dread fleet.)
Just, please, make sure that while OUTSIDE of seige mode they can pop carriers.
TL;DR: Seige mode should make short work of structures. Outside of seige mode is when it's time to bash other caps.
I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Solhild
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2011.10.03 05:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
erm...allow hisec gate use? |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
126
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Posted - 2011.10.03 05:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
siege timer needs to be much much faster 5 mins is nice. 2.5 mins would be super win!
but siege mode shoudl give 25% to shield and armor and hull resists. |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
5
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Posted - 2011.10.03 06:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
make siege modules to be able to load scripts
Pos script increase the dread dmg ehp and gives a % res reduction on his target.
The Cap script increases his tracking andfighter defense thus allowing them to take carriers and mom easily, therefore dreads are now a siege platform or a cap killer while the subcaps like Bs are still a good counter to them |
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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
58
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Posted - 2011.10.03 06:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think that a fleet which has 40 to 50 supercarriers should be dead scared of a fleet that has 25 to 40 dreads. It IS as simple as that.
25 to 40 dreads hold no danger to a subcap fleet of, say, 200 battleships so they would be of little use against anything other than a super carrier blob. In that situation, however, it would make mince supercarrier metal.
The magic lies in discouraging alliances from fielding supercarrier blobs because if they get known for using such tactic, their enemies would prepare accordingly and they would suffer a massive ISK loss. However, if your alliance brings in the odd gang (i said gang.. 5 to 10) supercarriers to a battle they would be much more effective because the enemy wouldn't be expecting them and would not have prepared their dreadnougths accordingly.
Alliances should strive to make their enemies think that no super carrier would be used, instead of taking pride in being super carrier hoarders they are today. Because lets be real... nobody brings dreadnoughts to their everyday engagements...
TL;DR
Supercarriers have little counter, dreadnoughts have little use. The course of action is obvious.
Dread and Scarrier 1 on 1? Dread wins. Every ******* time. Should be like that.
Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
mkint
100
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Posted - 2011.10.03 09:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
The thoughts in this thread are scary when taken in context of the thoughts in the original supercarrier threads from way back. You all just want to turn dreads into the new supers. Dreads used to be relevant until supers usurped their role... remove supers' ability to do the dreads' role (shooting at structures), and dreads will come back without the need for much buffing at all. The supers killer needs to be a subcap, ideally one that can be hotdropped without a bridge (i.e. a buffed black ops) and is relatively impervious to capital weapons (maybe a velocity buff and sig radius buff.) |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
2
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Posted - 2011.10.03 09:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:I think that a fleet which has 40 to 50 supercarriers should be dead scared of a fleet that has 25 to 40 dreads. It IS as simple as that.
TL;DR
Dread and Scarrier 1 on 1? Dread wins. Every ******* time. Should be like that.
Tech 2 dreads that eat super caps for breakfast? Maybe some new type of turret/launcher thrown in for good measure.
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Jack bubu
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
24
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Posted - 2011.10.03 09:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:I think that a fleet which has 40 to 50 supercarriers should be dead scared of a fleet that has 25 to 40 dreads. It IS as simple as that.
25 to 40 dreads hold no danger to a subcap fleet of, say, 200 battleships so they would be of little use against anything other than a super carrier blob. In that situation, however, it would make mince supercarrier metal.
The magic lies in discouraging alliances from fielding supercarrier blobs because if they get known for using such tactic, their enemies would prepare accordingly and they would suffer a massive ISK loss. However, if your alliance brings in the odd gang (i said gang.. 5 to 10) supercarriers to a battle they would be much more effective because the enemy wouldn't be expecting them and would not have prepared their dreadnougths accordingly.
Alliances should strive to make their enemies think that no super carrier would be used, instead of taking pride in being super carrier hoarders they are today. Because lets be real... nobody brings dreadnoughts to their everyday engagements...
TL;DR
Supercarriers have little counter, dreadnoughts have little use. The course of action is obvious.
Dread and Scarrier 1 on 1? Dread wins. Every ******* time. Should be like that.
Sure if you rise the production costs of dreads to about 20 bil.
Scrubs and their scrub ships.. pffsh
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
17
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Posted - 2011.10.03 09:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Permit them to be remote repaired when sieged and that makes them worth fielding again.
Being unable to move and the reduced tracking and target locked is enough of a nerf for sieging already. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
371
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Posted - 2011.10.03 09:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Halve the seige cycle timer and stront use.
Maybe have seigeing give some kind of unstacked resist bonus to increase EHP and rep a bit (Seige mode doubling the shield/armour resist bonus from Damage Control Systems, and adding +10% to the hull resist bonus, would do the job nicely) to take into accout the changed conditions on the battlefield, by which I mean fighter-bombers.
Otherwise, dreads are OK in and of themselves.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Karim alRashid
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.10.03 10:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
Otherwise, dreads are OK in and of themselves.
Perhaps Phoenix needs some love, sieged Phoenix can't touch anything that moves, this is drastically different from Moros and Revelation (no idea for the bublegum one).
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Abrazzar
141
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Posted - 2011.10.03 10:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dunno, would +400% damage against supercaps and sov structures and outposts when in siege mode help?
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Baneken
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.03 11:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Just drop the super carries HP's considerably and / or make slaves and other armour increasing items to affect only subcapital class ships.
I'd have no issues with SC if they wouldn't sport such a ridiculously high DPS while having as much if not more ehp then a small POS, either one has to go.
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Maxwell Thomas
Totally Unrelated INC.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.04 02:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
I like the idea of being able to be remote repped. i would add a resist bonus when sieged. |
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mkint
103
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Posted - 2011.10.04 03:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think allowing dreads to be RR'd still has the problem of just pushing the blob factor even higher, without solving the big problem. Giving them a bonus versus structures and supers would be good but only because structures and supers need to die more. I'm not exactly sure what shortening the siege cycles are supposed to do except give you more opportunities to hot-swap loadouts with carrier support, and give dreads more chance to run away (barring cap problems.)
I think the dread fix can be divorced from the super carrier fix. Think of what the fundamental problems were with dreads from back before dominion... bashes were boring. That's about it. So, make structure bashes less boring. Now, after dominion, the problem is not with the dreads, it's with supers. So fix supers (i.e. add a counter, reduce DPS, fix logoffski, etc, massive tactical reward needs to be balanced by massive risk.) |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies
THE UNTHINKABLES
6
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Posted - 2011.10.04 11:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
well eve in general needs rebalancing on caps and sub caps. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
72
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Posted - 2011.10.04 23:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:well eve in general needs rebalancing on caps and sub caps.
Yeeaahhhh.....
Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
BLACK-STAR
112
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Posted - 2011.10.05 00:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
I think dreads are ok the way they are. a reduced siege would be nice.
Couldn't CCP be innovative with a super carrier counter with a new line of capital ships? I see a small variety of different types of battleships per faction, but only one all-purpose capital dreadnaught or the incredibly useless carrier.
meh...
[img]http://www.imgbox.de/users/S7AR/star.png[/img] |
Catlos JeminJees
E.M.P. Industries
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
8
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Posted - 2011.10.05 00:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
well for making sov structure bashes more fun or intresting maybe they should have guns. you get there 4 turrents pop out you get it to half shield 6 pop out get it into armor and 8 pop out and so on.
Turrets would be destructable.
Just a thought . |
Silent Lamb
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 03:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think dreads should remain how they are. If people want something to counter super carriers easier then why not make a tech 2 dread that requires a hell of a lot more training in skills that aren't currently on the market or make a super dread of sorts? I mean... if dreads are buffed to the point they can easily take out super caps, what's the point of having super caps? and if there's no point to have super caps, what's the point of investing all the time and effort and isk into getting them? I mean... aren't super capitals supposed to be exactally that? 'super'? I think instead of making a tier 3 battlecruiser for noobs to play with (and by 'noobs' I refer to players under 2 years of age) make a ship for the older players who have been playing over 2 years (feb 04 is my oldest active toon) and give us older players who have been loyal to CCP through the **** we've gotten from all the nerfs over the years after skilling for those years to try to circumvent the nerfs, only to have even more nerfs placed on us.... why not reward us for being loyal for so long? why not make a skill requirement heavy t2 dread, or a super dread with both having some advanced sort of siege mode above that of a regular dread? oh, make it so it can only be built in Sov too. People fight hard to obtain and keep Sov, and having Sov should have the reward of having the most powerful ships in game. If others want Sov, they can either rent and serve in offensive navy activities, or band together and attempt to obtain Sov by force, like all the major powers did before they were major powers. why can't people actually develop real strategy and use actual tactics like back in the day? when enough people get fed up they'll band all together and take out the super force. it happened to BOB, the NC, and it's bound to happen again. so stop complaining about super caps and use your brain to figure a way around them like everyone before you. everything has been nerfed to hell since it's origination. Seriously though, if you could easily take out Supers, aren't you just going to complain that they're too easy to take out once you get some Sov and make some for yourself? seems to be a reoccuring theme to the EVE experience. someone is more powerful than the majority, people complain, and then when the majority get to the point that they can do what the more powerful person had done they complain that it's not good enough. Stop whining, and be patient until you skill up and can do the elite things. Isn't EVE Online supposed to be an elitist game? when I started it was... and as far as I know it still is. |
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