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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
TriadSte
IronPig
Sev3rance
122
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Posted - 2012.11.05 18:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
In the Eve universe, your allowed to do pretty much anything you please.
My question is this : why is it ok and deemed ok to scam someone out of millions or billions of isk but its not ok to get annoyed and be rather verbal to that person be it about racism, sexual orientation etc.
Its is quite normal to think nasty things  after you've been scammed. Some people even voice those opinions yet if petitioned we are warned about it yet scamming is always working as intended.
I have not been scammed but I think in a sandbox its either strike first and get the kill or die. Its a dog eat dog world. If scamming is ok I think "everything" should be ok.
Scamming in my opinion is only done by the absolute lowest forms of life. Its like taking a childs ice cream Its something you just wouldnt do unless you had a screw loose in the head. Maybe not firing on all cylinders.
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Opertone
Aurora Empire
Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
187
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Posted - 2012.11.05 18:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think so too.
Scamming is terrible. But it is acceptable.
Exploiting and macroing - must not be tolerated.
Macro spam bot - permanent ban. If you scam you must scam legitimately. No bots. |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
233
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 18:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:In the Eve universe, your allowed to do pretty much anything you please. My question is this : why is it ok and deemed ok to scam someone out of millions or billions of isk but its not ok to get annoyed and be rather verbal to that person be it about racism, sexual orientation etc. Its is quite normal to think nasty things after you've been scammed. Some people even voice those opinions yet if petitioned we are warned about it yet scamming is always working as intended. I have not been scammed but I think in a sandbox its either strike first and get the kill or die. Its a dog eat dog world. If scamming is ok I think "everything" should be ok. Scamming in my opinion is only done by the absolute lowest forms of life. Its like taking a childs ice cream Its something you just wouldnt do unless you had a screw loose in the head. Maybe not firing on all cylinders.
But they had mint chocolate chip! I LOVE mint chocolate chip! That is why I took it. |
Khergit Deserters
Gallente Federation
170
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 18:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Don't know, but if I were CCP, I wouldn't allow racism, sexism, etc. either. There are ways to express your righteous rage without resorting to that. Insulting/hating on people on the basis of the category they happened to be born into-- that's just primitive. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1508
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 18:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
To be tricked, scammed, played, is just a game.
To get overly upset, verbal, racist, sexist, raging is getting personal and needs to chill out. Go outside, and have a smoke. |
Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
57
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 18:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rage is never as rewarding as a well planned revenge. |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
20
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 18:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:Its something you just wouldnt do unless you had a screw loose in the head. Maybe not firing on all cylinders.
I will have you know, SIR, that when one of my car's cylinders misfired it resulted in a VERY nasty crash that left me with a loose screw embedded in my cranium! I still have nightmares! How could you be so inconsiderate!
Petitioned!
"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
TriadSte
IronPig
Sev3rance
122
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 19:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
All great replies, as I said I've not been scammed but I thought it was an interesting topic. I think Its how you perceive things I guess to determine how you feel about things.
Scamming is quite an artform indeed but i feel its as bad as a personal attack because in a way.....it is. |
Natrayle Kale
Bowl Of Petunias
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 19:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
TriadSte, I can understand where your coming from, but scamming is something that although not necessarily built into the mechanics, follows along with the sandbox feel. To be honest, there are many other ways that a victim of a scam can seek his revenge. This may be via military action, or even in other ways. Many people resort to verbal reactions out of frustration, but there are many other ways of doing so. To be honest, spamming vs racism/sexism isnt really a fair... comparison, know what i mean?
On another note, for CCP to effectively control chat (voice or text) in Eve, to watch for and take action against sexism/racism it would be difficult. Now on the other hand, Corp names, Alliance Names tickers etc could be something they could control. The other option could be through a ticket system where pilots could report others saying things of this matter and then go from there. Probably warning then escalation kinda idea. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
832
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 19:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Scamming is a perfectly legitimate form of PvP in EVE Online, even if it doesn't involving shooting at things. With that said, there are ways to combat it, such as carefully reading the contract or terms of service involved with whatever way they're trying to scam you. If it requires isk and you aren't exactly sure how it works, do research on it.
With that said, getting verbal about it afterwards and raging everywhere isn't going to solve the issue. At the end of the day, you'll be out your isk, ships, and whatever else might have happened. Cursing and ranting about it isn't going to help and might get you into trouble. It'd be best to just accept what happened and try to recover from it. If you're really clever about it, you might even be able to scam them back using the mechanics against them. It's how a sandbox works.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
24
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Posted - 2012.11.05 19:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't see any correlation.
Scamming is part of the game, it's based on social engenieering, manipulation, knowledge of the game and so on; is inside the borders of the game mechanics and setting. Can be an unpleaseable outcome, but still is a game outcome, same as when one get mad for loosing a ship.
Racism, verbal harrassing and so on is a totally different matter. Has nothing to do with the game, it only uses the game tools to haul some out of game harrassment, prejudice, frustration....
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Kari Juptris
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
57
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Posted - 2012.11.05 20:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Getting verbal is real life harassment.
Scamming is considered valid PVP and the less than shiny apples happen to fall for it all the time. CCP explicitly owns everything in game from a legal standpoint. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
3441
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 20:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Scamming is a perfectly legitimate form of PvP in EVE Online, even if it doesn't involving shooting at things. With that said, there are ways to combat it, such as carefully reading the contract or terms of service involved with whatever way they're trying to scam you. If it requires isk and you aren't exactly sure how it works, do research on it.
With that said, getting verbal about it afterwards and raging everywhere isn't going to solve the issue. At the end of the day, you'll be out your isk, ships, and whatever else might have happened. Cursing and ranting about it isn't going to help and might get you into trouble. It'd be best to just accept what happened and try to recover from it. If you're really clever about it, you might even be able to scam them back using the mechanics against them. It's how a sandbox works.
Usually verbal PvP doesn't involve shooting things... maybe later irl but not in-game 
"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
1007
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 20:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Scamming is a completely valid gameplay mechanic. Insults and racism go out of game.
(Would you argue that shooting people in CoD should be forbidden, because murder is a more serious crime than racism?) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
5016
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 20:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:In the Eve universe, your allowed to do pretty much anything you please. My question is this : why is it ok and deemed ok to scam someone out of millions or billions of isk but its not ok to get annoyed and be rather verbal to that person be it about racism, sexual orientation etc. Its is quite normal to think nasty things after you've been scammed. Some people even voice those opinions yet if petitioned we are warned about it yet scamming is always working as intended. I have not been scammed but I think in a sandbox its either strike first and get the kill or die. Its a dog eat dog world. If scamming is ok I think "everything" should be ok. Scamming in my opinion is only done by the absolute lowest forms of life. Its like taking a childs ice cream Its something you just wouldnt do unless you had a screw loose in the head. Maybe not firing on all cylinders.
EVE permits every form of in-game villainy. But bringing in real life conflicts and bigotry is, as should be obvious, a no-no. In short: my character can do anything that he can get away with to your character (and vice-versa, of course). But there are very strict limits on what I can do to you. CCP's rules aren't there to make us play nice characters, only to be nice people.
The important distinction is that if I scam you out of everything in game, then you can escape the consequences of that by simply closing the client: Poof! Your losses - and my "crime" - are now as meaningless as losing a piece in a game of checkers. But I think you'll agree that anyone who started spewing racial epithets or making real life threats because he lost a piece in a game of checkers had failed to understand something very important about playing competitive games.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries
EPIC Alliance
382
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 20:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
TriadSte wrote: Scamming in my opinion is only done by the absolute lowest forms of life. Its like taking a childs ice cream Its something you just wouldnt do unless you had a screw loose in the head. Maybe not firing on all cylinders.
Bugger off, I stole 14bil and I'm perfectly normal. Your mutilated cat just can't accept it.
Now if only the binbag would stop talking to me...
"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming. |
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp
3083
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 20:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:My question is this : why is it ok and deemed ok to scam someone out of millions or billions of isk but its not ok to get annoyed and be rather verbal to that person be it about racism, sexual orientation etc.
I can't answer your question without knowing more about what you said after you got scammed.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
889
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 21:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Don't know, but if I were CCP, I wouldn't allow racism, sexism, etc. either. There are ways to express your righteous rage without resorting to that. Insulting/hating on people on the basis of the category they happened to be born into-- that's just primitive.
This kind of behaviour should of course not be tolerated, not more than those claiming those behaviours and crying/moaning/insulting others intelligence in this very same forum.
Respect goes on both ways, not on a single one.
brb |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
Persona Non Gratis
123
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 21:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:Scamming in my opinion is only done by the absolute lowest forms of life. Its like taking a childs ice cream Its something you just wouldnt do unless you had a screw loose in the head. Maybe not firing on all cylinders.
When a player gets scammed, the "victim" has two options - pay attention to what they're agreeing to, or benefit from training lazy, stupid and greedy to V. It's not like real life, where someone can sell you a convincing fake. Show info and looking things up on the market, together with a good dose of common sense, are all you really need. Are you really saying people should be protected?
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
826
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 06:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP is just here to make money really.
Racism and sexism hurts the brand and the game image, makes less money from it. Ganking could as well, but CCP likes to have fun as well. Just got to wait till CCP can make enough money from not ganking to equal out the fun they get form ganking. Problem solved.
Asia has too many people, so tons of money there, be a very long time, till CCP allows racism in the game.
I'm not shitposting. |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
382
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 06:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:In the Eve universe, your allowed to do pretty much anything you please. My question is this : why is it ok and deemed ok to scam someone out of millions or billions of isk but its not ok to get annoyed and be rather verbal to that person be it about racism, sexual orientation etc. Its is quite normal to think nasty things after you've been scammed. Some people even voice those opinions yet if petitioned we are warned about it yet scamming is always working as intended. I have not been scammed but I think in a sandbox its either strike first and get the kill or die. Its a dog eat dog world. If scamming is ok I think "everything" should be ok. Scamming in my opinion is only done by the absolute lowest forms of life. Its like taking a childs ice cream Its something you just wouldnt do unless you had a screw loose in the head. Maybe not firing on all cylinders.
No.
They scammed you.
Bash them for being dishonest, lying, cheating, scoundrels. That is what they have proven themselves to be; not something else. Most of us don't jump to using such slurs, and that someone does suggests something about them, rather than the person they are using them on.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
The Irukandji
685
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 10:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:
Scamming in my opinion is only done by the absolute lowest forms of life. Its like taking a childs ice cream Its something you just wouldnt do unless you had a screw loose in the head. Maybe not firing on all cylinders.
Scamming is God's Work. It separates fools from their money, so that the old adage "A fool and his money are soon parted" becomes true. Absolutely no one is forced into a scam. They walk into it voluntarily - often blinded by their own greed (wow this is cheap what a deal this guy is an idiot he doesn't know what this item is worth). Most scams can easily be avoided by just reading properly.
Therefore scamming is also education. In exchange for a tuition fee, you are teaching these individuals the importance of paying attention to their contracts. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Holistic Materials Research Council
2796
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 10:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Scams are fuelled by the greed and stupidity of the person being scammed, if you get scammed you have no one to blame but yourself as all the tools and information to avoid the scam are there for every player if they can be bothered to look for them.
-á-áThe Likes & Get Likes Thread
Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum
-á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
TriadSte
IronPig
Sev3rance
123
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 11:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
All great posts...
I just think if scamming is allowed, everything should be allowed. [ I did not get scammed - check my contracts :P ]
If your prepared to scam someone, you should also be as well prepared for verbal abuse. In my books, its relatively the same thing.
CCP imho should protect every player from scams as they do from all kinds of written or verbal abuse.
We have to look upon the general public, there are players who have some forms of mental health issues. Being scammed due to their condition. Perhaps concentration issues? just an example.
The scammer comes away feeling great for lining his pockets with isk, unknowingly scammed someone who has poor health conditions.
Is that not in some way as bad as verbal abuse? |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
R O G U E
575
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 11:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
being verbally abusive to some one isn't an appropriate response to being too stupid to see a scam.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
5019
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 11:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:All great posts...
I just think if scamming is allowed, everything should be allowed. [ I did not get scammed - check my contracts :P ]
If your prepared to scam someone, you should also be as well prepared for verbal abuse. In my books, its relatively the same thing.
CCP imho should protect every player from scams as they do from all kinds of written or verbal abuse.
We have to look upon the general public, there are players who have some forms of mental health issues. Being scammed due to their condition. Perhaps concentration issues? just an example.
The scammer comes away feeling great for lining his pockets with isk, unknowingly scammed someone who has poor health conditions.
Is that not in some way as bad as verbal abuse?
Then unfortunately you're in the wrong game. This is an extremely hostile environment for someone who can't properly distinguish between in-game actions and out of game actions.
CCP shouldn't protect players from scams, any more than Hasbro should protect players from landing on Mayfair when I have a full set of Hotels on it and Park Lane. Scamming (along with piracy, theft, extortion, assassination, espionage, black propoganda, cartels and so on) is explicitly part of the game. Racial abuse and threats are not only explicitly not part of the game, they're simply illegal in many jurisdictions.
Your argument could be recast as "Well if people are going to tackle me while I'm playing football, then they have to expect that I'll key their car after the game is over. The Referee should protect me from being tackled!" Or how about "Hey that guy tricked me into thinking he had a crappy Poker hand so that I'd bet more of my money!".
You have several options regarding scams:
(1) Be very careful when accepting contracts or buying from the market at an immediate profit, especially ones where you think you're taking advantage of the guy who set it up.
(2) Decide it's less effort to laugh it off and make the money back (this is a legitimate choice, especially if you do your purchasing with an alt to whom you only give the minimum required ISK and assets, essentially "firewalling" your wallet)
(3) Play another game where scamming isn't allowed.
Hoping that CCP will delete a legitimate PvP profession in a game that explicitly advertised as cut-throat and ruthless is a waste of your time and effort, since it's not going to happen. In short, you can either own it, deal with it or leave.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Nanatoa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
142
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 11:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:Its like taking a childs ice cream Its something you just wouldnt do unless you had a screw loose in the head.
Or unless the child had Chocolate Nougat Crunch. It's the best!
It is never too late to turn from the errors of your ways:
He who repents of his sins is almost innocent.
MinerBumping.com |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
The Irukandji
685
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 11:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:
Is that not in some way as bad as verbal abuse?
Scam "victims" (although I use that term lightly since the damage is 100% self inflicted) are unable to accept the reality of the situation - namely, that through laziness, omission or lack of due dilligence they have become prey to a scam. Since these people have a distorted self image, living in a world where they are completely at the center, in charge, and capable of doing no wrong, having to face the fact that their world-view conflicts with reality is a source of frustration for them.
This is both good and bad. These people are the ones least likely to learn from their mistakes and most likely to fall "victim" to another scam, or even the same scam because after all it was YOUR fault not theirs. The bad part is that you have to put up with their little tirades. |
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
701
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 11:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Scamming is a perfectly legitimate form of PvP in EVE Online, even if it doesn't involving shooting at things. With that said, there are ways to combat it, such as carefully reading the contract or terms of service involved with whatever way they're trying to scam you. If it requires isk and you aren't exactly sure how it works, do research on it.
With that said, getting verbal about it afterwards and raging everywhere isn't going to solve the issue. At the end of the day, you'll be out your isk, ships, and whatever else might have happened. Cursing and ranting about it isn't going to help and might get you into trouble. It'd be best to just accept what happened and try to recover from it. If you're really clever about it, you might even be able to scam them back using the mechanics against them. It's how a sandbox works.
aye but apparantly according to some GM s smacktalking WT and personally insulting them with racial and sexual slurs is allowed , somehow that doesn't make sense
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
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CCP Falcon
526
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Posted - 2012.11.06 11:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:EVE permits every form of in-game villainy. But bringing in real life conflicts and bigotry is, as should be obvious, a no-no. In short: my character can do anything that he can get away with to your character (and vice-versa, of course). But there are very strict limits on what I can do to you. CCP's rules aren't there to make us play nice characters, only to be nice people.
The important distinction is that if I scam you out of everything in game, then you can escape the consequences of that by simply closing the client: Poof! Your losses - and my "crime" - are now as meaningless as losing a piece in a game of checkers. But I think you'll agree that anyone who started spewing racial epithets or making real life threats because he lost a piece in a game of checkers had failed to understand something very important about playing competitive games.
This is by far the best post I have EVER seen on these forums.
You sir, understand EVE to its black hearted, capitalist, dog eat dog core, with an awesome separation between in game and out of game actions.
I can only echo this post.
The thing is, that whether or not we admit to it, the beauty of EVE is that every single one of us is a roleplayer.
When you log in, you play the role of a Capsuleer, regardless of what your motives are. True, there is a distinction between those who simply play the game and those who choose to immerse themselves in EVE's setting and backstory, but the end result is the same.
We're all playing a role, and are fleshing out our own histories and storylines, whatever they may be.
Scamming, playing the con man, the pirate or rip off merchant are all parts of the sandbox game play that makes EVE stand out with such a rich and colourful history. Understanding that this is an IN GAME action and in no way reflects on the player behind the character is the first step to mentally surviving the morality black hole that is New Eden.
When you log in, you may type in your username and password with the hands of a Doctor, a Lawyer, a Soldier or a Cop, but once that little bar counts up and you click on your character's Avatar, the gloves are off and you're immersed in a hyper-capitalistic kill or be killed setting based thousands of years into our future.
Separating in game actions from a player's out of game persona is one of the most important things in EVE Online.
Back in the early days of being a player I can remember being ripped off by a real life friend for 8,000,000,000 ISK. This was back when 8 billion was more money than anyone knew what to do with. I was madder than hell until I logged out of the game. Then we met up at the pub, had a beer and laughed about it as old friends.
Years later when he thought he was clear, I betrayed his trust in return, ganked his pride and joy Raven Navy Issue and got best part of my money back in loot. To add to the sting, I nailed his pod and wrecked his high grade crystal set.
We still laugh about it to this day on the rare occasion we see each other given I now live in Iceland, but despite in game actions we've always been more than happy out of game to spot eachother a little cash if needed, or borrow eachother's cars.
I'll be a 10 year veteran of EVE on May 14th 2013. I've been to countless player gatherings, hosted more of them than I can honestly remember, and have had the pleasure of being an attendee at 6 Fanfests.
If there's one thing I've learned that's the most important thing in all those years after meeting quite literally thousands of EVE players, it's that the key to success in New Eden is making that divide between player and character, and understanding the social fabric of EVE's community.
No amount of skillpoints or ISK can compensate for that.
CCP Falcon -á-á||-á-áEVE Community Team -á|| -á-áEVE Illuminati -á-á||-á-á@CCP_Falcon
-á-- Disciple Of The Delicious Tea -- |
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