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Rivek
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Posted - 2005.04.16 15:20:00 -
[31]
Or skip all this and nerf the **** out of instajump bms, restoring the game to its intended state where large slow ships are less mobile than small fast ones.
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TunDraGon.com |
Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.04.16 19:08:00 -
[32]
Instas are evil, but long time travel is evil 2.
If, or if they would cut the number of jumps in a half or even more but removed the instas... oh boy.
But if you have to jump 50 hops from empire to your base and back on a hauler, instas is the only thing that keeps it going. Modify the distruptors allright.
PS
Gankign is actually direct result of instas - people fly past you so fast that u dont have time to do anything else. I say make the stupid warp instant, but make approaches to gates and stations longer and warping start like twice longer then now.
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2005.04.16 19:40:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Lygos
30minute duration immobile warfare for the win?
Gate control is an especially silly and wasteful way to seek national sovereignty.
Since these sorts of things are for highways, this defeats my hope that you guys were going in the direction of running battles. Now I just feel more confident in letting my sub lapse until June or so.
Gate control? DOn't be silly this change adds more variety to the game, not less... I help defend a portion of 0.0. I know about gate control, its a myth.
IT's a myth because everytime you blob up, if your opponent is worth his salt, you get scouted out and a custom tailored force comes to confront you. Trying to close down a system is just as dangerous for the camper as it is for his opponent.
What the changes allow is strategic use of bubbles due to shorter deplpy time and portability...
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Sewell
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Posted - 2005.04.16 20:02:00 -
[34]
Nice chages, especially lowering the achoring times should make em a lot more usefull.
Also - how about t2 disruptors (soon)?
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TGR Reaper
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Posted - 2005.04.16 20:19:00 -
[35]
are the BPO's gonan rBe Release as normal on the market because there tech 1?
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Captain Canuck
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Posted - 2005.04.17 02:22:00 -
[36]
Originally by: TGR Reaper
are the BPO's gonan rBe Release as normal on the market because there tech 1?
Another thing I don't get. They're agent released, take tech 2 construction components, yet are not labelled tech 2.
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.04.17 11:43:00 -
[37]
This is going in the wrong direction. They should cost much more and only be anchorable with a hauler. Now everyone and his pet can use them and get some cheap ganks. Yehaa, this is that we were waiting for the whole year.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.17 23:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rivek
Or skip all this and nerf the **** out of instajump bms, restoring the game to its intended state where large slow ships are less mobile than small fast ones.
<3uBunches
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YuuKnow
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Posted - 2005.04.18 00:08:00 -
[39]
i don't like the insta-ganking anchoring time. :(
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Lygos
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Posted - 2005.04.18 14:58:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Lygos on 18/04/2005 14:59:34
There really should be a mod that defeats the warp bubble. Like a rack of WCS maybe?
I wouldn't mind bubbles so much if they prevented absolutely everyone from warping out of that area. Including those guys hanging out 150km away.
And increase the offlining time please. If people want to create a gank depot, they should be prepared to stand their ground.
Also, within the field effect of a bubble, targetting range and speed, optimal range and missile speed should be all be reduced to promote the actual dynamic of mobility. If not those then something with a similar effect.
Immobile warfare is so the two hundred and thirty second century..
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.04.18 18:39:00 -
[41]
They ain't a win button.
Ask NSA what happened when they set up three Mobile WD's on a gate and camped it.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Hampstah
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Posted - 2005.04.19 20:05:00 -
[42]
True Maya, but that was a fun battle even though we ended up losing it 
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Beware Rodentz with Gunz
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Lucre
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Posted - 2005.04.20 12:06:00 -
[43]
Originally by: mahhy
Regardless, they were introduced to combat insta-jumps, but when they're only usable in 0.0 its really only half the potential combatants they can be used against.
IIRC they were introduced to counter gate-ganking, to make gate-pirates unable to "run at the first sign of opposition" as their warp disruptor would take too long to unanchor quickly and too expensive to abandon freely. In short, to make setting up a blockade (a la Sarum Prime as was) a significant operation, not an idle gank.
Of course drastically reducing the anchor times and acquisition costs would rather seem to be going against this!
Combined with the map changes, I can't help feeling this will only increase the exodus from 0.0 to Empire. It used to be dangerous enough making the long trip out or back - soon it'll be lethal.
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.04.20 12:08:00 -
[44]
OMG TOMB I LOVE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2005.04.20 18:56:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: mahhy
Regardless, they were introduced to combat insta-jumps, but when they're only usable in 0.0 its really only half the potential combatants they can be used against.
IIRC they were introduced to counter gate-ganking, to make gate-pirates unable to "run at the first sign of opposition" as their warp disruptor would take too long to unanchor quickly and too expensive to abandon freely. In short, to make setting up a blockade (a la Sarum Prime as was) a significant operation, not an idle gank.
Of course drastically reducing the anchor times and acquisition costs would rather seem to be going against this!
Combined with the map changes, I can't help feeling this will only increase the exodus from 0.0 to Empire. It used to be dangerous enough making the long trip out or back - soon it'll be lethal.
Errrm, I tend to look at it the opposite way. With the map changes making more ways into 0.0 (harder to camp), and travel in Empire more difficult I would see it working to encourage people to venture out. And frankly, most pirate are difficult to deal with not because they are so deadly, but because they are hard to catch and kill. They tend to evade and evade, until they see an opening and take advantage of it. A gate camp is currently the easiest thing in the world to see on the map with the new 30 minute update, only a complete noob would go through one unless they absolutely had to. This is encouraging many pirate to concentrate on mobility and evasion, fast strikes and getaways, than ever before. I think we will see more defenders attempting to set traps, and fewer pirates setting them, with these new changes in anchoring time and cargo volume.
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.04.20 22:11:00 -
[46]
I think these changes are good.
For those who are worried too much about mobile warp disruptors being too powerful - note that you can still snipe them from the distance. It's not gonna be easy with enemy fleet camping next to them, but it's still very doable.
I also think that there needs to be a solution for empire space. I have an idea:
Introduce "Smart Mobile Warp Disruptors". These would have the ability to filter out people based on war status, or security rating. Basically, by default they would only effect people who declared legal war on each other. CONCORD would allow use of these devices as long as they only effect people you are at war with.
They could also be used in 0.0 with more effectiveness by setting a filter based on corp standings, it would be an option on the Smart Mobile Warp Disruptor. That way it will allow friendly traffic to pass thru without problems.
Since Smart Mobile Warp Disruptors are much nicer, they should be considerably more expensive and a bit harder to use.
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Nicholai Pestot
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Posted - 2005.04.21 09:58:00 -
[47]
Well, for empire space, the 'flaggin' system could be used.
As soon as a mobile disruptor is deployed within empire space it is flagged as a criminal, and remains flagged.Turrets will shoot it and anyone can engage it freely (The empires dont like people suspending trade through their space)
This will prevent griefers setting them up at gates/stations with no intention of piracy.
As for actually using them with this inplace-Create a BM between two well travelled gates and deploy it there.Without the pressure of the turrets or a need to insta-gank your target to prevent it fleeing, we might just see some real piracy.
I still say 'no' to warp bubbles in 0.5 and above though
I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant |
dabster
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Posted - 2005.04.24 11:39:00 -
[48]
Is there an eta to these changes yet?
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Chicks dig Brutor's |
Captin Biltmore
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Posted - 2005.04.26 05:36:00 -
[49]
Bah....bubbles won't be "fixed" until CCP does something about people logging off when they get caught in one *ahem* Lord Mix *ahem*
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.04.26 17:54:00 -
[50]
I like these changes. We will see more of these once this goes in. This will go a long way to make these practical for use. They will be small enough to fit in a frigate and anchor and unanchor fast enough to set up quick traps and skirmishes. Hopefully with the reduced mineral costs prices will come down enough to make risking one an acceptable prospect.
While Im sure pirate gankers will use these to some degree. I really think changes like this will benifit alliance defenders more. These things will not be very usefull for stopping a fleet of battleships as much as the 1-2 frigate pirate raiders running deep and fast to attack haulers. Currently they can run wild and be almost immune if they have insta BM's and safespots.
Now if only they can get them working properly. 
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VortiK
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Posted - 2005.04.27 07:22:00 -
[51]
Originally by: mahhy
They need to be anchorable in Empire, but only affect war enemies. All others are ignored.
It's a Gravwell generator, it can't select what things will get affected or not
Otherwise, great changes ! Will add lot of new tactics 
What is a life, devoid of strife ?
Glorious Furture |
Mitchman
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Posted - 2005.05.01 08:35:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Viceroy
You need to find a solution for empire though, since most of the action is going down there. Instajumps are 100% uncounterable in empire atm.
I don't find instant jumps a problem at all. Just catch them on the other side 
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Zandramus
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Posted - 2005.05.03 17:07:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Face Lifter
I think these changes are good.
For those who are worried too much about mobile warp disruptors being too powerful - note that you can still snipe them from the distance. It's not gonna be easy with enemy fleet camping next to them, but it's still very doable.
I also think that there needs to be a solution for empire space. I have an idea:
Introduce "Smart Mobile Warp Disruptors". These would have the ability to filter out people based on war status, or security rating. Basically, by default they would only effect people who declared legal war on each other. CONCORD would allow use of these devices as long as they only effect people you are at war with.
They could also be used in 0.0 with more effectiveness by setting a filter based on corp standings, it would be an option on the Smart Mobile Warp Disruptor. That way it will allow friendly traffic to pass thru without problems.
Since Smart Mobile Warp Disruptors are much nicer, they should be considerably more expensive and a bit harder to use.
Doesn't even need to be a smart bubble in empire, becuse you cant shoot a non war target anyways. So a bubble pulls you out of warp 30k from a gate. Now you just have to impulse to the gate, I see no problem there.
I can see pirates using them in low sec to pull everyone out of warp away from a gate, hey this may bring back real pirating and keep away gankers.
I have no problems with people using them in empire, I have used them in 0.0 to some success, however a clever person still can get by them by knowing what he is doing.
Zandramus
Zandramus
Parking Violations Officer
Geminate Division
S.A.S
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.05.04 09:05:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Zandramus
Doesn't even need to be a smart bubble in empire, becuse you cant shoot a non war target anyways. So a bubble pulls you out of warp 30k from a gate. Now you just have to impulse to the gate, I see no problem there.
Warp scrambling a single ship is a hostile act, so why wouldn't warp scrambling anything in a wide radius be considered hostile too?
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2005.05.04 17:09:00 -
[55]
cant wait for these chances ^^
Centuria > whoot?
Centuria > you stalking me? :)
--
Nafri > then I a bird pooed on my head AND ON MY MEAL
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http://www.subroc.net/teddybears/
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Roshandari
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Posted - 2005.05.04 18:00:00 -
[56]
I'm fairly torn over these changes. I like the idea of being able to use MWD as a dynamic element to fleet battles, but any ganker rat with two brain cells to rub together will be using them INSTANTLY if they're made usable in Empire. I think it would take a -lot- of work to make empire MWD work. I really think ganking is the lamest method of combat prats have. Doesn't take any skill besides scramble-lock-explosion and looting whatever drops. Sure, I guess knowing when to run if opposition jumps in is a skill, but it certainly doesn't have any finesse. Personally, I like that Teddy's camp from a while back where they talked to all the people, gave them options to not get fragged, and let the people who agreed go on their way. Almost seems like honor among prats to me.
For all of you complaining about instas, I've just got one suggestion; deal with it. If I take the time to setup a complete insta route to and from someplace to increase my safety and decrease my travel time, you'll just have to be more creative to catch me (ie, when I'm mining, leaving stations, finished jumping on the other side of a gate, etc.). I'm not in favor of people being able to sell assembled BM collections on escrow by any means, but fundamentally there isn't anything wrong with instas. It's the pilot reprograming the computer on his ship to get there faster. Not like we can use 'em with autopilot or anything. Might be nice if they implemented something that flagged bookmarks as untradable if either end was within 100km of a station, stargate, or other large structure (are there any? I can't think of any others), but that's just an idea to disable trading of IBM's
I do agree about needing to fix the logoff-warp away exploit in all situations, not just when caught in a MWD bubble.
One last topic to comment on; Someone said that all the action was happening in empire. If you don't like high-sec combat, go to low sec and fight people out there; plenty of low sec infested with p-rats that you can fight. Us empire carebears can do fine without constant grief wars.
I hope nobody takes the fact that I disagree with 'em to heart...no offense intended, just voicing my opinions.
Roshandari
Director, The Catalyst
The key to living in a sci-fi universe: Never wear a redshirt with an blank nametag...they always die first. |
Cpt XDuguat
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Posted - 2005.05.04 18:36:00 -
[57]
Great!!!
More ways to spend money on more ships meaning more piracy and in the months to come prolly in new choke points in empire as well...
Yeh !!!!
Have you thaught of ways for us morons like me who just mines in eve and dont do pvp to make more money. Have you thaught of ideas for means of income to bare the replacement of elites haulers will loose in those systems because of these now highly accessible gadgets? Last news was that bookmarks are now unprecises + or - 3 km from points to points making these systems of disruptions highly efficients againts slow ship like haulers.
Cuz the mining drones have been changed and are cheaper now but you guys have worked hard on making those warp systems more efficient...
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Cpt XDuguat
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Posted - 2005.05.04 19:09:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Arthur Guinness
\o/
Looking forward to the Large one too :D
By the way I hope he know's what he's talking about cuz I dont have a clue exept that vitoc and frentix is bad for ya lol.
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Tasselhoff Burrfoot
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Posted - 2005.05.05 13:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Cpt XDuguat
Originally by: Arthur Guinness
\o/
Looking forward to the Large one too :D
By the way I hope he know's what he's talking about cuz I dont have a clue exept that vitoc and frentix is bad for ya lol.
That would probably be the LARGE MOBILE WARP DISRUPTOR (small and medium are out already)
Of course I could be totally wrong, and he may mean a large pepperoni with extra cheese
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Gravis
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Posted - 2005.05.05 21:50:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Captain Canuck
Please tell me that you're going to modify the module build times and BP copy times as well so as not to completely nerf the income making potential of those who have these BPOs?
Also, wouldn't be a bad idea for the large to require the med module, and so forth so as not to instantly obsolete the medium. (And the same with the med requiring the small to be fair).
I see a big income potential whit the proposed changes, now people maybe starts using the bubbles. And this is tech1 so I do not think you should need the small one to build a medium. WhatÆs next? Small thorium ammo to build medium thorium ammo?
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