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Production in null - worthwile?

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Warp Planet6 Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2012.11.13 08:42:00 - [1] - Quote So guys, I am going to re-adjust my income in null since hunting down NPCs is pretty boring. I thought about a more "passive" or long-term income and I think production could suit my desires. I was wondering how much more worthwile production in nullsec is or could be and want to hear your opinions. Which items are produced with profit (besides capitals) and why are they more profitable when manufactured in null? Thanks for your hints! WP6
GallowsCalibrator GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 72	Posted - 2012.11.13 09:45:00 - [2] - Quote Production in null is generally pretty stupid unless you're building supercaps due to mineral concerns and massive lack of manufacturing slots. Much easier to just build in hisec and export to null.
Warp Planet6 Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2012.11.13 10:21:00 - [3] - Quote Well, manufacturing slots are en masse available where I live. Your point in minerals might be a reason for that, don't know. I really thought there is any advantage of producing in null. In fact, I thought null would be the best choice in any way when it comes to production locations.... No I am really disappointed
Irya Boone Escadron leader 63	Posted - 2012.11.13 10:44:00 - [4] - Quote interresting only if you are in a big alliance with a LOt of blue Improve C2 class WH More anos more signs ...RENAME null sec system With the name Of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It xill be awesome-á
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 5100	Posted - 2012.11.13 10:51:00 - [5] - Quote Warp Planet6 wrote: Well, manufacturing slots are en masse available where I live. Your point in minerals might be a reason for that, don't know. I really thought there is any advantage of producing in null. In fact, I thought null would be the best choice in any way when it comes to production locations.... No I am really disappointed Theoretically, manufacturing in NPC null should be at least as good as Empire, but strangely, even though mining in nullsec is apparently safer than in hi-sec, no one seems to mine in NPC 0.0 despite all those big empty belts full of all kinds of ores. So without minerals, it's difficult. I suggest forming a mining corp and leading a few of the more timid hi-sec miners who can't stand the danger levels of The Forge or Kor-Azor and setting up shop in, let's say, Curse. That should get you a good supply of minerals. HLW- has 7 or 8 stations if I recall correctly, and rarely more than a dozen people in local, so you should have plenty of manufacturing, refining and researching facilities to use. It's only 2 jumps from the mission hub in G-0Q, so you'll get plenty of customers! PS Tell Darkside I said "hi" if you see them, MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button."
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 430	Posted - 2012.11.13 11:01:00 - [6] - Quote GallowsCalibrator wrote: Production in null is generally pretty stupid unless you're building supercaps due to mineral concerns and massive lack of manufacturing slots. Much easier to just build in hisec and export to null. in my experience most t1 ships are assembled in 0.0 - importing them from high-sec would be prohibitive in terms of effort and fuel cost. One jumpfreighter can carry at most seven packaged battleships but it can carry the compressed minerals for more than 50 battleships. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid.
Random Majere Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda 30	Posted - 2012.11.13 12:20:00 - [7] - Quote GallowsCalibrator wrote: Production in null is generally pretty stupid unless you're building supercaps due to mineral concerns and massive lack of manufacturing slots. Much easier to just build in hisec and export to null. Well you guys just conquered a lot of manufacturing stations in Tribute. Should have "reduced" the problem for you guys. Right?
Tikera Tissant 42	Posted - 2012.11.13 12:44:00 - [8] - Quote There are several reasons why mining and manufacturing in null is very limited. Unless you are based in an alliance with enough blue and enough local protection, your fleet will get jumped on and you will lose your mining ships at some point by pirates of people who just don't like you. And going into a safe spot every time a non-blue appears in local, is just waisting your time. Also, there is always a shortage of some type of mineral you need in NPC space, so you are not fully efficient, and getting the missing mineral from hi-sec or other local hubs can cost quite a lot sometimes, and is not without risks. Alliances who manufacture for war, usually do so in the deep parts of null, where they get all the minerals they need, with heavy defense. From there they usually use their jump network to get the gear spread around if need be.
Ptraci 3 R Corporation The Irukandji 706	Posted - 2012.11.13 12:58:00 - [9] - Quote Depends on your region really. There are busy regions and there are quiet regions. In busy regions you won't be able to mine/rat much since you'll be roamed/cloaky camped all the time. In quiet regions you can mine and rat all you want, and thus it's much easier to set up industry. The problem is that in busy regions there is high demand for ships and things due to losses, whereas in quiet regions not so much. The ideal of course is to build stuff in quiet regions and have it shipped to stations in busy regions...
Warp Planet6 Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2012.11.13 13:25:00 - [10] - Quote So there is no point in 0.0 production that gives me an advantage (i.e. build time, minerals needed etc.) over guys who produce in higher security systems? Hmm alrighty then, looks like I was too early too happy about the many free production slots then
Ze'jira Penshar Republic University Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.11.13 13:52:00 - [11] - Quote Sure it is! If you have an alliance, a blob fleet, a few industrial corps, a few POSs, Outposts, super caps, trillions of isk, a financier, a real world accounting firm....
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke 408	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:13:00 - [12] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: GallowsCalibrator wrote: Production in null is generally pretty stupid unless you're building supercaps due to mineral concerns and massive lack of manufacturing slots. Much easier to just build in hisec and export to null. in my experience most t1 ships are assembled in 0.0 - importing them from high-sec would be prohibitive in terms of effort and fuel cost. One jumpfreighter can carry at most seven packaged battleships but it can carry the compressed minerals for more than 50 of them. The only way the war machine can be kept going is through 0.0-based manufacturing. you are wrong 90++% of all ships are produced in highsec, bought in highsec and then transported to nullsec. don't forget that you can't do reasonable reprocessing at an amarr outpost and no reasonable production at a minmatar outpost
Dar Manic Republic University Minmatar Republic 48	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:15:00 - [13] - Quote Warp Planet6 wrote: So guys, I am going to re-adjust my income in null since hunting down NPCs is pretty boring. I thought about a more "passive" or long-term income and I think production could suit my desires. I was wondering how much more worthwile production in nullsec is or could be and want to hear your opinions. Which items are produced with profit (besides capitals) and why are they more profitable when manufactured in null? Thanks for your hints! WP6 Stealth nerf hi-sec / buff null-sec thread. 4/10 though I just don't understand null sec players. Please note: Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up.-á Thank you.
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 430	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:53:00 - [14] - Quote Gilbaron wrote: don't forget that you can't do reasonable reprocessing at an amarr outpost and no reasonable production at a minmatar outpost XUW-3X - Minmatar Refinery ZTS-4D - Amarr Factory (1 jump) ZUE-NS - Amarr Factory (2 jumps) PXF-RF - Minmatar Refinery 9DQW-W - Amarr Factory (1 jump) F-88PJ - Minmatar Refinery 1-5GBW - Amarr Factory (1 jump) BYXF-Q - Minmatar Refinery C-C99Z - Amarr Factory (1 jump) U-SOH2 - Minmatar Refinery DBRN-Z - Amarr Factory (1 jump) L-1SW8 - Amarr Factory (1 jump) H-NPXW - Amarr Factory (2 jumps) 6F-H3W - Amarr Factory (3 jumps) ... and that's just Fountain. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid.
Warp Planet6 Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:53:00 - [15] - Quote Ze'jira Penshar wrote: Sure it is! If you have an alliance, a blob fleet, a few industrial corps, a few POSs, Outposts, super caps, trillions of isk, a financier, a real world accounting firm.... Must pass here.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 5106	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:59:00 - [16] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: Gilbaron wrote: don't forget that you can't do reasonable reprocessing at an amarr outpost and no reasonable production at a minmatar outpost XUW-3X - Minmatar Refinery ZTS-4D - Amarr Factory (1 jump) ZUE-NS - Amarr Factory (2 jumps) PXF-RF - Minmatar Refinery 9DQW-W - Amarr Factory (1 jump) F-88PJ - Minmatar Refinery 1-5GBW - Amarr Factory (1 jump) BYXF-Q - Minmatar Refinery C-C99Z - Amarr Factory (1 jump) U-SOH2 - Minmatar Refinery DBRN-Z - Amarr Factory (1 jump) L-1SW8 - Amarr Factory (1 jump) H-NPXW - Amarr Factory (2 jumps) 6F-H3W - Amarr Factory (3 jumps) ... and that's just Fountain. That's over half as many stations as Nonni (in the Lonetrek Region) has! MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button."
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 430	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:06:00 - [17] - Quote Malcanis wrote: That's over half as many stations as Nonni (in the Lonetrek Region) has! So you are telling me that you would rather do 30 jumpfreighter runs to import the 200 Maelstroms or Rokhs you need for a CTA? From the discussion I witnessed when TEST considered instituting refinery taxes (no idea if they went through with it or not) I got the impression that this is not how their industrialists actually work. They seemed to be pretty butthurt because they build most T1 hulls from compressed minerals in 0.0. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10312	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:11:00 - [18] - Quote Malcanis wrote: That's over half as many stations as Nonni (in the Lonetrek Region) has! To be fair, Nonni is downright absurdGÇª GÇªbut it still kind of shows the general problem. Let's dig out those numbers again: Jita (a single system) has 300 slots. Sobaseki (one jump away) has 250 slots. Nonni (another five jumps) has 750 slots. Lonetrek as a whole has 12,600 slots. Tribute as whole has 497 regular production slots. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Rordan D'Kherr Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 195	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:25:00 - [19] - Quote Tippia wrote: Lonetrek as a whole has 12,600 slots. Tribute as whole has 497 regular production slots. uhh interesting numbers. Is there any source to compare systems / regions? _______________________________________ Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10315	Posted - 2012.11.13 16:04:00 - [20] - Quote Rordan D'Kherr wrote: uhh interesting numbers. Is there any source to compare systems / regions? You can use the data dump to get numbers for the NPC stations. For player-owned ones, you simply have to ask the owner or go there and spai a bit. I couldn't be bothered with either, so I just did a quick totting up on dotlan and used stats posted on Something Awful. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Dar Manic Republic University Minmatar Republic 48	Posted - 2012.11.13 19:09:00 - [21] - Quote They need to make null-sec just like hi-sec. Make low-sec the same too. Then everyone will stop complaining. ;) might have to make this a 5/10 since people have taken the bait. I just don't understand null sec players. Please note: Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up.-á Thank you.
Alice Katsuko Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing 148	Posted - 2012.11.13 19:15:00 - [22] - Quote Depends on the specific situation. In most of null, production slots aren't much of an issue. If for some reason the station slots are constantly occupied, you can always put up a production POS for a fairly modest investment. Mineral supply is the biggest limit on viable nullsec production. Odds are, you will have to import huge amounts of Tritanium and other low-end minerals, plus any high-ends that are not supplied by your local ores. That may or may not be viable, depending on how far your production system is from your low-sec staging system. The Drone Regions used to be an exception, but CCP Greyscale shafted our industrial sector by removing drone alloys without adding a useful replacement supply of low-end minerals. Not that in the long run it wasn't a bad thing, but would've been nice if CCP also balanced mineral supply.
Sentamon 259	Posted - 2012.11.13 19:53:00 - [23] - Quote Dar Manic wrote: They need to make null-sec just like hi-sec. Make low-sec the same too. Then everyone will stop complaining. ;) [ Complaining never stops. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10317	Posted - 2012.11.13 19:58:00 - [24] - Quote Alice Katsuko wrote: In most of null, production slots aren't much of an issue. If for some reason the station slots are constantly occupied, you can always put up a production POS for a fairly modest investment. GÇªand at a drastically increased logistical inconvenience since all you've done is inject another location from which you need to constantly shuttle materials and products back and forth, since it has (very) limited space for both and since it offers no easy way of distributing said goods. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 276	Posted - 2012.11.13 20:05:00 - [25] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Warp Planet6 wrote: Well, manufacturing slots are en masse available where I live. Your point in minerals might be a reason for that, don't know. I really thought there is any advantage of producing in null. In fact, I thought null would be the best choice in any way when it comes to production locations.... No I am really disappointed Theoretically, manufacturing in NPC null should be at least as good as Empire, but strangely, even though mining in nullsec is apparently safer than in hi-sec, no one seems to mine in NPC 0.0 despite all those big empty belts full of all kinds of ores. So without minerals, it's difficult. I suggest forming a mining corp and leading a few of the more timid hi-sec miners who can't stand the danger levels of The Forge or Kor-Azor and setting up shop in, let's say, Curse. That should get you a good supply of minerals. HLW- has 7 or 8 stations if I recall correctly, and rarely more than a dozen people in local, so you should have plenty of manufacturing, refining and researching facilities to use. It's only 2 jumps from the mission hub in G-0Q, so you'll get plenty of customers! PS Tell Darkside I said "hi" if you see them, Another intell SNAFU that kind of turned on CCP. Go to an "NPC" System with a station and manufacturing ability, look at the POCO ownerships. See how "empty" the space really is.
Trendon Evenstar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 59	Posted - 2012.11.13 20:27:00 - [26] - Quote Ze'jira Penshar wrote: Sure it is! If you have an alliance, a blob fleet, a few industrial corps, a few POSs, Outposts, super caps, trillions of isk, a financier, a real world accounting firm.... We have all that and production in 0.0 is still worthless. High sec manufacturing beats it every way possible. So sure- you can do production in 0.0 if you don't mind being inefficient, not cost-effective, non-competitive, non-expedient and generally a whole lot of sourcing and logistics hassle for something you could make better money doing 1 jump from Jita.
Shizuken Venerated Stars 127	Posted - 2012.11.13 20:34:00 - [27] - Quote Alice Katsuko wrote: . The Drone Regions used to be an exception, but CCP Greyscale shafted our industrial sector by removing drone alloys without adding a useful replacement supply of low-end minerals. Do you not have veldspar/scordite rocks in your area of null. I seem to have plenty in mine.
Hemmo Paskiainen Armenian Noodle Dip 368	Posted - 2012.11.13 20:55:00 - [28] - Quote to make 0.0 realy work there must be a sec based general bonus to ships. something like: high sec: normal bonus lowsec: + 10% bonus to mining yield of all miningships 0.0: + 20 % bonus to mining yield of all miningships same for production, invention facilities ect. this way you always encourage 0.0 because its always relative more profitable. Cheaper 0.0 means more initiative for explosions as its cheaper and thus improving the 0.0 fun. You know lawless space... duh what your going for to lawless space,... pew pew right? Create cheap industry and miners will follow (more profitable and also more danger). Have cheap industry and activity go's up. Activity go's up more fun... more fun is more populair eve...... easy as peanuts CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS [url]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9679/whatihavedoneineve.jpg[/url]
MasterEnt The Scope Gallente Federation 102	Posted - 2012.11.13 21:25:00 - [29] - Quote Aside from production a stable market is needed. I have a feeling more people dont mass product outside of alliance needs because nearly every station you go to is DENIED if you are not blue.
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 276	Posted - 2012.11.13 21:38:00 - [30] - Quote MasterEnt wrote: Aside from production a stable market is needed. I have a feeling more people dont mass product outside of alliance needs because nearly every station you go to is DENIED if you are not blue. In that respect it wouldn't make much difference. I've never understood the abject paranoia of NBSI Outpost doctrine but even in space where NRDS is the doctrine, manufacturing is for the corp that runs the Outpost. There just aren't enough slots to be handing them out to neutrals.

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