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Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.04.18 10:58:00 - [1] nullOk now we all know what it is and im sure most pVp pilots have seen it first hand. Or even use it as a tactic themselves. I suppose its not technicly the E word so it can be used. But come on guys its pathetic and can be sorted very easily. If Warp Scrambled YOUR SHIP SHOULD NOT WARP OUT ! ! now is that too hard too implement CCP ? Now I cant really think of ANY reason why this shouldnt happen ! thx for looking Typherin Please dont flame Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Kal Atraides	Posted - 2005.04.18 11:00:00 - [2] at the moment you dont warp out. I got caught on a mission by a warp scrambaler at full shields and armour. It wasnt a hard mission so i should have warped out when my wireless dropeed with some lsot shields and maybe some armour... or so I thought... came back when i reset my router in a easter egg. CCP wouldnt replace it... Its a 2 way nerf >currently training to level 5: Mad Scotsman Manuvering / Rank 8 /
Pheonix Grey	Posted - 2005.04.18 11:01:00 - [3] The amount of posts that have been put on this subject you think they would have by now , i take it you have just been subject to it first hand? Good times (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.04.18 11:04:00 - [4] Edited by: Typherin laidai on 18/04/2005 11:06:21 Well thats unfortunate but afaik people are still using log off tactics and I dont believe it was fixed in the last patch ? (if it was someone tell me ) There should be NO timer when logging off when scrambled, and to those that want it increased a little.. No. If your ship is scrambled and you log off. It shoudln't go anywhere untill whatever was scrambling you ceases to do so. Seems fairly reasonable to me Originally by: Pheonix Grey The amount of posts that have been put on this subject you think they would have by now , i take it you have just been subject to it first hand? Good times haha and no I haven't .. im at work and have decided against the whole 'Work' philosophy... thought id start on something simple ... Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Flyyn	Posted - 2005.04.18 11:06:00 - [5] DEAD HORSE!!!!!!!!!
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.04.18 11:08:00 - [6] Originally by: Flyyn DEAD HORSE!!!!!!!!! Has it been fixed ? not that I know of ... so this comment may be 'flogging a dead horse' but the issue still remains. So unless you have anything constructive to say run along ... Is your playtime over soon ? Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Viqer Fell	Posted - 2005.04.18 11:09:00 - [7] Or simply why not simply remove the warp off for when its a player scrambling you. Retain the warp off for people using this lame tactic on agent missions and i'm sure the amount of petitions wont go up by much but the Pvp'ers will be much much happier when Joe Bloggs Pirate can't suddenly log off to escape. Ok, so what the hell is this Golden Ratio?
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.04.18 11:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Viqer Fell Or simply why not simply remove the warp off for when its a player scrambling you. Retain the warp off for people using this lame tactic on agent missions and i'm sure the amount of petitions wont go up by much but the Pvp'ers will be much much happier when Joe Bloggs Pirate can't suddenly log off to escape. Yeah seems like a fair comment. though I dont see why NPC'ers should be looked on more favourably Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.18 11:15:00 - [9] So what happens to the people that sometimes have connection troubles? Evertime their ISP fails, or their connection has a hickup, they should be guaranteed to die? Logging off is a lame tactic. But don't think you can get rid of it completely as long as there is no such thing as the "perfect" internet connection. No such thing as CTDs and no such thing as plain hold comp crashes. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.04.18 11:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Gariuys So what happens to the people that sometimes have connection troubles? Evertime their ISP fails, or their connection has a hickup, they should be guaranteed to die? Logging off is a lame tactic. But don't think you can get rid of it completely as long as there is no such thing as the "perfect" internet connection. No such thing as CTDs and no such thing as plain hold comp crashes. Not trying to sound harsh but tough. If your ship was successfully scrambled when you lost your connection YOU SHOULD meet whatever end is coming to you. Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Loka	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Typherin laidai Not trying to sound harsh but tough. If your ship was successfully scrambled when you lost your connection YOU SHOULD meet whatever end is coming to you.Typherin Lol. So if you are in a tanked Raven doing a easiy Mission, where you encounter only 4 Cruiser and 2 ceptors, where everyone of us would agree you would kill without even boosting your shields only once, you have to die, because your CTD and couldnt log back fast enough? Log off during combat is lame, but much more lame it is to die, without beein able to react. Tbh the warp away/vanish thing when CTD is the best thing i ever saw in a game. In all others you just die. Imo the only way to go here is to have different scramblers. NPC and Player scramblers. While scrambled by NPC scramblers, you vanish and while scrambled through Player scramblers you dont. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Typherin laidai Originally by: Gariuys So what happens to the people that sometimes have connection troubles? Evertime their ISP fails, or their connection has a hickup, they should be guaranteed to die? Logging off is a lame tactic. But don't think you can get rid of it completely as long as there is no such thing as the "perfect" internet connection. No such thing as CTDs and no such thing as plain hold comp crashes. Not trying to sound harsh but tough. If your ship was successfully scrambled when you lost your connection YOU SHOULD meet whatever end is coming to you. Typherin If that would have been true. I wouldn't be playing EVE right now cause over a year and a half of playing. I would have lost a dozen battleships and half a dozen more deimoses then I have now, cause neither my connection or my computer is flawless. but the roles can be reversed as well you know. If you manage to scramble me YOU SHOULD be able to MAKE me meet that end. Not peck me to death cause my ISP dropped the ball or EVE decided it didn't like your turrets and dumped me to desktop. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:17:00 - [13] Edited by: Gariuys on 18/04/2005 12:18:36 Originally by: Loka Originally by: Typherin laidai Not trying to sound harsh but tough. If your ship was successfully scrambled when you lost your connection YOU SHOULD meet whatever end is coming to you.Typherin Lol. So if you are in a tanked Raven doing a easiy Mission, where you encounter only 4 Cruiser and 2 ceptors, where everyone of us would agree you would kill without even boosting your shields only once, you have to die, because your CTD and couldnt log back fast enough? Log off during combat is lame, but much more lame it is to die, without beein able to react. Tbh the warp away/vanish thing when CTD is the best thing i ever saw in a game. In all others you just die. Imo the only way to go here is to have different scramblers. NPC and Player scramblers. While scrambled by NPC scramblers, you vanish and while scrambled through Player scramblers you dont. But even in PvP that holds true you know. Being scrambled hardly means you're guaranteed to go down, no matter if your there to fight the fight or not. And quite frankly, if there's one thing that would **** me off is, is EVE crashing and knowing that by the time I get back I'm either in a pod or in station even though it was a fight I could haven easily won if my ISP didn't crap out. ATM it's still a gamble to make it out in time. Maybe for some super tanks there isn't much of a gamble and they'll always make it out. But really if people try so desperatly to be lame, let em be lame. Oh and for the record, no my ISP doesn't crap out on me that often. But there's plenty of people that have enough trouble as is, with either their ISP EVE itself or their comp. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:22:00 - [14] Eve is able to distinguish NPC and PC scrambling, afaik. This is why the logoff timer only applies to PC scrambled ships (still, as far as I know, there was mention of that when the scrambling -> no warping timer was introduced). 15 minutes total or 2 minutes after scrambling stops would be a good thing, I think. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:29:00 - [15] The main principles I think should guide what is done when someone logs off are these: 1) Does logging off give a player the ability to do something they couldn't otherwise do? 2) If 1) is broken, who does it hurt, and can that be justified. So, logging off all alone, unscrambled, at a safespot, it's fine for you to vanish very quickly. If you had remained logged on, you could have skipped between safespots all day, and no-one would ever find you. Sure, it removes you from local, but the same happens if you log in a station (and I doubt even the most rabid player would argue you shouldn't be allowed to log in a station ). Now, logging off with NPC's. It really sucks to lose your ship to NPC's due to CTD. The NPC's don't care if you log on them - they have no feelings, they don't gain anything if you die or not. Hence letting people get away from NPC's by logging, while a lame tactic, doesn't actually hurt anyone that much. Logging in PvP - definitely needs looking at. It does hurt when someone does this. They lose loot, the kill, all the tactical and strategic advantage they'd worked for to get the enemy into that position in the first place. And it does this via a capability they wouldn't otherwise have. If you CTD in a fight, and you're scrambled, then it should be tough luck. But at the same time, the mechanism should give the CTD'ed/logged player every chance to escape within valid game mechanics - some sort of "emergency failover AI" system. Under that system, when you logged out, the following things would happen: 1) NPC's see you as neutral, cease all firing/scrambling/etc and do not resume until you log back in. (cause losing ships to NPC's at CTD sucks so much). 2) Your ship initiates the "emergency warp" as normal. (logged-in equialent would be to safe-spot) 3)"Disappear" timer starts, but is not "validated" until the emergency warp completes. 4) If emergency warp fails (i.e. you are scrambled), continue attempting the warp (i.e. remain aligned and at full speed and attempting to warp) until successful. (perfectly normal logged-in player behaviour). Hence, if you start off scrambled when you log, but then the scrambler goes away, you warp, and disappear pretty much immediately after you come out of warp. Of course, it would also be nice if the emergency AI could take command of your modules as well, in a limited way - essenitally the AI just throws everything it has at whatever is scrambling it, whilst maintaining whatever tank you have mounted for as long as possible. Again, would not give any ability the player wouldn't have if logged-in (and would likely do a much poorer job of it than the player could). Of course, that might be adding too much complexity to it.
aqet	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:38:00 - [16] Thought you always stayed there for 2 minutes when you log off?(providing there are sufficient scramblers to overcome any WCS) Its only if you log onto another character that you vanish instantly even when scrambled? Which does need fixing, cos its pathetic.
Chakka	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:39:00 - [17] If you are properly scrambled by a player, you should not warp off... thats my view. NPCs are diff, they dont really mind so much if you get away :p People complaining about their bad connections need to realise that their connection status is NOT the fault of the person who is attacking them... and if anyone is going to be penalised by a lost connection, it should rightly be the person who lost the connection, not the person who has stayed in-game. The above example is how i feel about pvp combat when one person genuinly and unexpectedly looses his connection. IE. the lost connection should be considered as similar to a ship error perhaps. The person's ship should warp to a safespot unless scrambled, and dissappear after about 10 minutes as long as it is not found and engaged. There is another kind of lost connection though, the deliberate log-off. PLEASE increase the dissappear timer to at least 10 minutes so that organised players with probes at least have a chance to find logged out ships and engage them... atm its just pathetic. If you cant guarantee your connection, accept the possible loss of your ship (as I do) or dont do PvP
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Chakka If you are properly scrambled by a player, you should not warp off... thats my view. NPCs are diff, they dont really mind so much if you get away :p People complaining about their bad connections need to realise that their connection status is NOT the fault of the person who is attacking them... and if anyone is going to be penalised by a lost connection, it should rightly be the person who lost the connection, not the person who has stayed in-game. The above example is how i feel about pvp combat when one person genuinly and unexpectedly looses his connection. IE. the lost connection should be considered as similar to a ship error perhaps. The person's ship should warp to a safespot unless scrambled, and dissappear after about 10 minutes as long as it is not found and engaged. There is another kind of lost connection though, the deliberate log-off. PLEASE increase the dissappear timer to at least 10 minutes so that organised players with probes at least have a chance to find logged out ships and engage them... atm its just pathetic. If you cant guarantee your connection, accept the possible loss of your ship (as I do) or dont do PvP People should not be penalized for something that's beyond their control. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Typherin laidai Originally by: Gariuys So what happens to the people that sometimes have connection troubles? Evertime their ISP fails, or their connection has a hickup, they should be guaranteed to die? Logging off is a lame tactic. But don't think you can get rid of it completely as long as there is no such thing as the "perfect" internet connection. No such thing as CTDs and no such thing as plain hold comp crashes. Not trying to sound harsh but tough. If your ship was successfully scrambled when you lost your connection YOU SHOULD meet whatever end is coming to you. Typherin Hm, why? YOu will not even see it exploding. ____________________________________________________ Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Chakka People complaining about their bad connections need to realise that their connection status is NOT the fault of the person who is attacking them... and if anyone is going to be penalised by a lost connection, it should rightly be the person who lost the connection, not the person who has stayed in-game. Exactly - and the EULA makes this quite clear (point iii): Originally by: EULA 1. REQUIREMENTS TO PLAY To play EVEÖ, you must: (i) purchase a license to the Software (this may be available with the purchase of a boxed version of the Game and/or from the EVEÖ web site http://www.eve-online.com); (ii) establish online a valid account (an ôAccountö) and keep that Account active by paying the subscription fees on a timely basis; (iii) obtain and maintain your own Internet access (Internet access is required to play EVEÖ; CCP is not responsible for your access to the Internet); and (iv) comply with the EULA. Hence, the onus is on the player to have and maintain the connection. Neither CCP or any other player has any responsibility for this. If your connection drops, it is your responsibility, and you should accept any and all consequences arising from that. Of course, within that harsh reality, there is the kindness of CCP - who have provided some mechanisms to minimise the consequences of a lost connection. Which is all well and good, except when they break the in-game mechanics, which the current ones are being used to do more and more. CCP should do everything possible to help out people who lose connection, but not at the expense of the game as a whole.
Kingpenn	Posted - 2005.04.18 13:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Chakka If you are properly scrambled by a player, you should not warp off... thats my view. NPCs are diff, they dont really mind so much if you get away :p People complaining about their bad connections need to realise that their connection status is NOT the fault of the person who is attacking them... and if anyone is going to be penalised by a lost connection, it should rightly be the person who lost the connection, not the person who has stayed in-game. The above example is how i feel about pvp combat when one person genuinly and unexpectedly looses his connection. IE. the lost connection should be considered as similar to a ship error perhaps. The person's ship should warp to a safespot unless scrambled, and dissappear after about 10 minutes as long as it is not found and engaged. There is another kind of lost connection though, the deliberate log-off. PLEASE increase the dissappear timer to at least 10 minutes so that organised players with probes at least have a chance to find logged out ships and engage them... atm its just pathetic. If you cant guarantee your connection, accept the possible loss of your ship (as I do) or dont do PvP If A looses connection and B gets the preffered treatment, how is this fair to A? Increasing the timer will increase griefing and gate camping griefing/gankage teams... leave things as they are, stop you whinage, eat some cheese, and go pout to your mommies about this next time...
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.04.18 13:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Gariuys So what happens to the people that sometimes have connection troubles? Evertime their ISP fails, or their connection has a hickup, they should be guaranteed to die? Logging off is a lame tactic. But don't think you can get rid of it completely as long as there is no such thing as the "perfect" internet connection. No such thing as CTDs and no such thing as plain hold comp crashes. If you are warp scrambled by another player and you CTD, yes. You should die. This isnt even debatable. The logoff mechanics basically ensure ganking, because if you cant kill someone under 2 minutes (or ~20 seconds if they use the exploit, which they wont ever be punished for) you just cant kill them at all. If you happen to actually CTD, well, tough **. Happens to me once in a while too (I try to log back in and continue fighting, tends to get me killed). You've lost your escape hatch because of the large number of people who use Ctrl+Q as their primary combat tactic. Originally by:** Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Valan	Posted - 2005.04.18 13:38:00 - [23] Edited by: Valan on 18/04/2005 13:37:54 Don't you get a 2 minute timer when you log off? If thats correct, then if you cannot kill a BS in 2 minutes you don't deserve the kill. If they didn't log off they would die of boredom.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.04.18 13:43:00 - [24] Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 18/04/2005 13:42:49 Originally by: Valan Edited by: Valan on 18/04/2005 13:37:54 Don't you get a 2 minute timer when you log off? If thats correct, then if you cannot kill a BS in 2 minutes you don't deserve the kill. If they didn't log off they would die of boredom. You get a 2-minute timer if they dont use the unenforced exploit (which many people do). Even then, explain to me why not being able to kill someone in 2 minutes means you dont deserve the kill. I fly a nosferatu dominix from time to time - that cant kill a battleship in under 2 minutes. That doesnt mean I'm not going to get the kill though. Same with small groups of frigates against an apoc. Getting it in under 2 minutes - perhaps. Getting it in the end - definately. How about instead of 'If you cant kill a battleship in 2 minutes, you dont deserve the kill', we change that to 'If you cant escape from hostiles in over 2 minutes, you deserve to die'. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.18 13:45:00 - [25] Originally by: RollinDutchMasters Originally by: Gariuys So what happens to the people that sometimes have connection troubles? Evertime their ISP fails, or their connection has a hickup, they should be guaranteed to die? Logging off is a lame tactic. But don't think you can get rid of it completely as long as there is no such thing as the "perfect" internet connection. No such thing as CTDs and no such thing as plain hold comp crashes. If you are warp scrambled by another player and you CTD, yes. You should die. This isnt even debatable. The logoff mechanics basically ensure ganking, because if you cant kill someone under 2 minutes (or ~20 seconds if they use the exploit, which they wont ever be punished for) you just cant kill them at all. If you happen to actually CTD, well, tough ****. Happens to me once in a while too (I try to log back in and continue fighting, tends to get me killed). You've lost your escape hatch because of the large number of people who use Ctrl+Q as their primary combat tactic. So in your opinion people with real problems should suffer cause there's a bunch of lame people? Good suffer for bad. RL has enough of that. This is a game. Oh the log in alt bull btw that needs fixing. Only allow to log back in same character before timer is up. For Alts a 2 minute timer. Or for all I care 5 minutes for trying to be lame. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.04.18 13:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Gariuys So in your opinion people with real problems should suffer cause there's a bunch of lame people? Good suffer for bad. RL has enough of that. This is a game. Oh the log in alt bull btw that needs fixing. Only allow to log back in same character before timer is up. For Alts a 2 minute timer. Or for all I care 5 minutes for trying to be lame. No. I think that people who log off (or CTD. Lets be fun and pretend more people CTD then log) while warp scrambled by another player were most likley going to die anyway. The logoff mechanic prevents them from dying when they should have. Hell, even if they fix it people will still be logging to get their pod away risk-free. I occassionaly CTD, I would gladly trade my ship when I do (since I usually lose it anyway by trying to log back in instead of being a little ***) in exchange for catching the hundreds (and no, I'm not overstating this number here. I used to solo pirate in empire) of people who have logged to get their ships away from me. Originally by:** Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Uncle Angus	Posted - 2005.04.18 14:35:00 - [27] From a technical point of view, it must be possible to detect at least a few of the deliberate logging off scenarios (quitting game, closing window, killing process, closing internet connection etc) and handle them differently to the genuine "connection lost" problem. Ok, it's probably not possible to catch every way of quitting the game, but it would be a start at least.
Icarius	Posted - 2005.04.18 15:38:00 - [28] Log off in fight => screen shot => post it http://myeve.eve-online.com/screenshots/default.asp?screenID=8214
CaldariCitizen 9735	Posted - 2005.04.18 15:45:00 - [29] Edited by: kneelandbob on 18/04/2005 15:45:51 the whole concept behind the "warp if you drop" is in case your connect legitametly drops. However it can and is used as a tactic. Life suxors... unless there is a "flag" coded in to tell if it's a "Logoff" or an errant "disconnect" it's status quo for the time being. "See D i c k run.. see D i c k live.. MORAL: Be a D I C K!" Cloune d'Que!! zhey iss all ze Cloune d'que!!
Antoinette Civari	Posted - 2005.04.18 15:55:00 - [30] Disappearing after logging off is exploitable by the victim, because you can just shut down your game and pretend to have a ctd. Not Disappearing cant be exploited by the attacker, because you cant force your victims connection to crash (well, you can .. but thats kinda illegal, i guess). So, we have traded an exploitable situation for an unexploitable situation .. where is the problem ?
Smiffa	Posted - 2005.04.18 16:07:00 - [31] If the client is logged-off in the normal manner, then the server will have had a dialogue with the client. This _could_ be used as part of the pre-condition for preventing a warp-out mid-fight. The 'logout conversation' between the client and server might not happen if a CTD or connection loss occurs. This would mean that the server would 'see' only a connection loss and could react accordingly. This sounds good (and I believe suggested elsewhere) until you factor in the voluntary removing of modems and cables from PC's to simulate a connection loss. Even pressing the reset button would allow exploitation of the above. So, overall a useless post, but it saved the suggestion and probably makes it clear that an alternative 'solution' might not be easy to find. It's a shame that leaving it the way it currently is and relying on the good honour of those logging to prevail doesn't work. The more I think about this, I reckon that we'd be better with a "Once scrambled, stay scrambled" philosphy. Btw, sig means I try to run before the attack happens - if I'm scrambled, I usually scream and fire my miners at them...
Smiffa	Posted - 2005.04.18 16:18:00 - [32] Ah... Just had a thought. A short re-activation delay or a second or two could be added to all warp-scrambers and webbers (think internal capacitor-recharging or something) to allow for a gradual re-alignment to take place. If this happens enough times, then eventually the ship might warp out - sort of a 'punishment' if you will so if you can't kill em in the time it takes, then tough. Of course this would need to be tuned according to the target ship's agility and is also wide-open to tanking issues - i.e. tank ur way through until you can finally warp. I'm not a 'pro' pVper, certainly don't do it on a regular basis so it's just an un-educated suggestion.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.18 16:19:00 - [33] Originally by: Uncle Angus From a technical point of view, it must be possible to detect at least a few of the deliberate logging off scenarios (quitting game, closing window, killing process, closing internet connection etc) and handle them differently to the genuine "connection lost" problem. Ok, it's probably not possible to catch every way of quitting the game, but it would be a start at least. The trouble is, as long as there is still one way, it will still be used. And there is no way of detecting that I pulled out the network cable, except putting CCTV in my house - it looks just like any other genuine loss of connection. Originally by: Antoinette Civari Not Disappearing cant be exploited by the attacker, because you cant force your victims connection to crash (well, you can .. but thats kinda illegal, i guess). Good luck finding the IP of your target though, for such an evil hack attack You'd have to trick them into some out-of-game action that revealed it. And yes, it would be very illegal. So don't
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.18 16:28:00 - [34] Originally by: Matthew The trouble is, as long as there is still one way, it will still be used. And there is no way of detecting that I pulled out the network cable, except putting CCTV in my house - it looks just like any other genuine loss of connection. In fact, I can see some enterprising people writing something along the lines of "ZoneAlarm Eve-HaXXor Edition", or making the "I-Win firewall-modem", with a big red "I Win" button that every time you smack the button, the firewall automatically drops all packets to and from the eve server, but lets everything else through fine - so your TS etc would be uninterrupted, but as far as the eve server is concerned, you just vanished from the internet. Unfortunately, anything that relies on data sourced outside of the server itself (or the lack of such data) is inherently untrustworthy, which is why a client-server log-out detection system could never work.
VeNT	Posted - 2005.04.18 16:31:00 - [35] it should be like other MMORPGs you have a timer for login out you must be standing still or docked if docked then timer is less its not realy that hard.
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.04.18 16:37:00 - [36] I think the simplest solution is to extend log off timer to 5 minutes. And make sure there are no exceptions that cause ship to disappear before that time. It's a compromise
Thyro	Posted - 2005.04.18 17:03:00 - [37] Edited by: Thyro on 18/04/2005 17:06:30 Originally by: Face Lifter I think the simplest solution is to extend log off timer to 5 minutes. And make sure there are no exceptions that cause ship to disappear before that time. It's a compromise 24 hours as minimum ... ideal 36 hours! that would give you enough time to recharge your cap or build few extra ammo!
Thyro	Posted - 2005.04.18 17:03:00 - [38] Originally by: Typherin laidai nullOk now we all know what it is and im sure most pVp pilots have seen it first hand. Or even use it as a tactic themselves. I suppose its not technicly the E word so it can be used. But come on guys its pathetic and can be sorted very easily. If Warp Scrambled YOUR SHIP SHOULD NOT WARP OUT ! ! now is that too hard too implement CCP ? Now I cant really think of ANY reason why this shouldnt happen ! thx for looking Typherin Please dont flame What is your issue? Eggs? If you know how to warp scrable then I would not spend my time asking you.... what is your issue! CCP just make the damm connection online 24 hours a day even without player beeing playing... Or just fill this friend's hangar with all Eggs with all possible shapes, colors and sizes. And again I simple correct what you have quoted "If Warp Scrambled correctly YOUR SHIP DOES NOT WARP OUT!!" arrivederci
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.04.18 17:07:00 - [39] Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 18/04/2005 17:07:34 Originally by: Thyro "If Warp Scrambled correctly YOUR SHIP DOES NOT WARP OUT!!" arrivederci True. Instead of warping out, a correctly warp scrambled logger simply vanishes. That's so much better. And a 5m logoff timer would be acceptable, for the most part. It would certainly be a step in the right direction. Originally by: Thyro 24 hours as minimum ... ideal 36 hours! that would give you enough time to recharge your cap or build few extra ammo! Sorry, I was responding to you as if you were not an idiot. I won't make that mistake again. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Thyro	Posted - 2005.04.18 17:21:00 - [40] Originally by: RollinDutchMasters Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 18/04/2005 17:07:34 Originally by: Thyro "If Warp Scrambled correctly YOUR SHIP DOES NOT WARP OUT!!" arrivederci True. Instead of warping out, a correctly warp scrambled logger simply vanishes. That's so much better. And a 5m logoff timer would be acceptable, for the most part. It would certainly be a step in the right direction. Originally by: Thyro 24 hours as minimum ... ideal 36 hours! that would give you enough time to recharge your cap or build few extra ammo! Sorry, I was responding to you as if you were not an idiot. I won't make that mistake again. Well not making any idiot mistakes then If someone is so idiot that is unable to destroy an defenseless ship in 2 minutes then does deserver to see the defenseless target disapearing. Now if someone is not idiot to the point that is able to destroy a defenseless ship in what is today 2 minutes free time for ganker then he deservers all the credits. And I give my credits to mOo for several ocasions where log-off and even CTD end-up in a EGG So what ever you think or not... if you wish just 5 minutes then I wish 36 hours! BTW beside the 36 hours ganking hour... CCP also remove the shield... armor and structure... to allow frustrated idiots to see the explosion. But hold on CCP... easy and better... just pure make all ships in space go POP if someone get disconnected and in 1st second after log-off or CTD Happy with that? I'm sure that you should be! Enough of idiots talk. bye!
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.04.18 17:24:00 - [41] Who cares if people log off, let them. Pussies to the end I say. The amount of people who don't log off is far more greater than the people who do log off. It's like 50 - 1. I've seen more people who ***** about logging off to avoid death, go a head and log off in a spot who arn't envolved in a pvp battle just to get a jump on a group who flies to that spot/system. Just let it be. Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
Antoinette Civari	Posted - 2005.04.18 17:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Who cares if people log off, let them. Pussies to the end I say. The amount of people who don't log off is far more greater than the people who do log off. It's like 50 - 1. I dont want to point fingers at anyone but sometimes its more like 50/50 or even worse.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.04.18 17:27:00 - [43] Originally by: Thyro Well not making any idiot mistakes then If someone is so idiot that is unable to destroy an defenseless ship in 2 minutes then does deserver to see the defenseless target disapearing. Now if someone is not idiot to the point that is able to destroy a defenseless ship in what is today 2 minutes free time for ganker then he deservers all the credits. Since logged ships still run all their modules (including repairers and hardeners), I guess when you say "defenseless", you really mean to say "Yeah, I'm an idiot." Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Grosvenor Corama	Posted - 2005.04.18 17:33:00 - [44] Indeed no namecalling or finger pointing please. Never makes for a good discussion. ~{Forum Rules}~ ♥ ~{contact us}~
Wild Rho	Posted - 2005.04.18 18:07:00 - [45] If your ship is warp scrambled by a player then it should stay there and not disappear. If the player who "crashed" isn't able to tank the damage they are taking then whether they are online or not wouldn't make a difference so why should their ship be magically vanished to safety. If you CTD'd for real you should be trying to log back on quickly enough and get back into the fight to free/defend yourself. If the devs actually take a tougher stance on this issue and remove or at least extend the timer by a reasonable amount (during pvp not npc combat at least) then it will be very likely you will see alot less people "crashing" during a fight. Yes people really do crash at critical times and it can cost them ships, it's happened to most people who pvp on a regular basis at some point and is damn annoying, but the current system is only another incentive to gank targets rather than go for a drawn out fight since the target may vanish at any moment. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Cetshwayo	Posted - 2005.04.18 20:11:00 - [46] /me agrees whole heartedly with Rho. Good posts 4 teh win! Which incidently this one isn't lol

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